Barney Frank

It's almost like arguing in court.

You focus on what you can win, and I would say to them,

Well, nobody's asking you to like it or not like it or approve it or not approve it.

The only question is don't prevent other people.

It doesn't hurt you.

And that was the argument.

And by the way, that evolved into the argument with which I think we were successful in same-sex marriage.

You begin by saying nobody's asking you to say this is moral.

Nobody's asking you to give up whatever view you have that this is a bad thing or the way that we progress to that.

At this point, all we're asking you to do is leave people alone.

And even if people are doing something that you disapprove of, if it has no impact on you whatsoever, if it has no negative impact on anybody else, it's simply what these two people are doing.

Please don't mistreat them because of it.

And that's, as I said, basically the way we started with same-sex marriage as well.

You're absolutely right.

And by the way, I think that's one of the reasons we ultimately win.

And your question is really quite good in getting at that.

By the time the Defense of Marajac came up, which is now 1995-96, we had made some progress.

So,

Just as you correctly pointed out, by 1981, even people who had racist feelings didn't feel comfortable and articulated them.

By the 90s, it was not considered respectable to talk about f**ks and to be very abusive about people.