Chris Walsh

We put out data around the average balances, average balances by age.

And it's so, because you can use it for a house, you can leave the country and take it all out and then come back.

Because it's not ring-fenced, if you retire and you have like $120,000,

It's not a lot when people are living longer, but I think people just need to look at what the long-term goals are, not try and make fast money.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Actually, just to qualify on Australia versus KiwiSaver, it's actually, I mean, it's just because it's ring-fenced in Australia.

That's what makes it attractive.

And also the contributions are higher.

But we have great funds here.

We have great schemes.

So I just wanted to say that before I get someone saying, wow, you're saying bad things about KiwiSaver.

No, it is just the fact that you have too much access to the money.

But no, so people, if they are self-employed, I understand that they won't want to then manage it themselves and they'll just go and find an S&P 500 ETF or a fund.

But for employees who don't want to forego that 3.5% and soon to be 4% next year because their employer's contributing, I find that problematic.

You are.

And yes, it's taxed and there is some, you know, people say, well, it's not the full 3.5%, but the problem is if you're not doing that and you're doing it yourself, the chances are it'll fall off.

And so it seems like so sensible just to do it, but there's almost this KiwiSaver, sort of alt KiwiSaver mindset that like, oh no, don't do it.

It's the government or whatever.

It's like...

And it's like, no, it's just going into like quality products for the most part.