Cy Gavin

Yeah.

It's uncomfortable.

It's certainly, it's deeply uncomfortable and it feels out of control.

And for me, I'm the person why I wanted to show those things at first.

It was like, that is my tendency as a human being is to have control, especially over an image.

And I think particularly given where I kind of grew up, everything would have been so heavily scrutinized that it was a natural inclination to hide myself away from that and puppeteer an activity in a studio rather than showing up in a kind of real way.

I don't ever think about beauty.

I am actually shocked when people say that things are beautiful, but many I know are.

I think I don't think about beauty.

I think about not about much, actually, if I'm painting now.

I think that what I do think about happens before I paint, and then when I'm working, something comes out of that, and then I have to identify it.

I have to reckon with it.

I have to either...

Yeah, I follow it.

When I was younger, I've been like, oh God, I would like yank this back to make it what I want it to be.

And then what is, what is that that was coming out?

You know, like that always happens.

And I think that is also what was sort of at the, the crux of that is like to paint without a drawing.

It's, it's not actually dangerous in the way that you say, because even if you did paint on top of this drawing that you already laid out very meticulously with every line,

kind of voice in your head from everyone who cares about you telling you like what you made that like if you did that you'd still have a second image like there's what you're trying to do and then what you actually did do and if you're even fussily trying to put paint down in an exact way it's still communicating that you're a person who's probably out of control like and you're trying to communicate that you are so like why not just eliminate that step entirely and just be yourself you know