David Cappy

Australia's spending now higher than 2%, I think around 2.2%, and has talked about going to 3% and possibly even further.

Canada, for example, has historically been another fairly low spender on defence, although it in the last...

Year under, new Prime Minister Carney has announced that it will meet the NATO, the new NATO goal of 3.5% on sort of core defence spending over an extended period of time.

At one level, you know, these are, they're kind of clunky numbers, 2%.

You know, its origins used to be back in the NATO days that that was a sort of a target for for what NATO countries should spend.

Now, the expectation of NATO NATO members is that it's three and a half plus another up to five percent if you include sort of security related infrastructure.

So the two and a half thing, it's it's a kind of a guide in some ways, in the sense, of

you can get a lower number will get you to 2% faster.

So I think the most important thing for New Zealand is not that we're following some notional number that has been directed to us by somebody else, but is actually to think, what do we need for our defence in these much more dangerous times?

And to invest in that in a sustainable way and make sure that it's supported and sustained over multiple governments.

No, I don't think so.

I mean, I can't see a situation where New Zealand would be spending 3.5% of GDP on defence alone.

And, you know, the funny thing about Mr. Higgs's speech was that he he talked about a number of U.S.

allies and partners and he singled a number out for praise.

But included on that list were countries that, you know, that like Malaysia, who he complimented on its contribution to burden sharing.

in the way that it's played a role in resolving some of the conflicts between Cambodia and Thailand.

He complimented them as that was a contribution to burden sharing.

So there are plenty of countries on that list that he spoke fairly warmly of that aren't spending 3.5%.

So I don't think New Zealand's going to get to 3.5%, and nor do I think it should.

But I think what it needs to do is to say, hey, what do we need to spend for our own reasons, for our own interests?