Dax Shepard

And there's a clips economy where the atomic unit of algorithmic media is vertical video clips, horizontal in some places.

And Instagram has an internal structure

that they will not recommend a reel of over three minutes to a new audience.

So what they have done is create a marketplace for things that are short.

If you have a thought or a conversation or an exchange, and I'm not the world's most concise speaker, so I have a lot of those, that takes more than three minutes to play itself out, you are algorithmically punished for that.

Oh, yeah, I'm making a different point.

I'm not quite making a point about gatekeepers.

I am making a point about that different periods of attention, different platforms, they reward different things and they still do have power operating in certain ways.

And I think one thing that genuinely worries me about gatekeepers

the direction I see us going is towards less and less and less and less context.

Oh, for sure.

I have a different point of view.

Tell me about your point of view.

I mean, I'm struggling with it myself because I have this show, The Ezra Klein Show, which hopefully you all listen to.

Yeah, yeah.

It's doing fantastic.

I'm grateful people are tuning in.

But it is such a project of context.

What I think is so beautiful about these conversations is the unfolding and the slight and nuanced energetic movements between people.

And first you're making kind of one point about gatekeepers.