Dr. Genevieve von Petzinger

And so therefore we didn't see it, which I think is, and that's what I mean.

I really hope I'm not slamming.

Cause like I'm, we all stand on the shoulders of the generations that came in front of us and they did really important, good work.

But I think that it's such a good example of how are we limited to,

by our own preconceived notions, right?

Like I'm sure I am too.

And I'm sure future generations will be like, man, how did she not know?

Like whatever, right?

Like, but you know, this is how science works is that we're constantly, there's new things, there's new stuff coming out.

And this is where El Castillo and these other sites are so important because I actually think the next stage for us should be to start getting more serious about

can we identify specific motifs that are Neanderthal in origin rather than sort of, because right now, like I built this big thing of geometric science, but anything above about 40,000 in there is fair game to be Neanderthals.

And yet we all have it classified under one species right now, which it shouldn't be, but we have to figure out how to crack it apart.

Then the really interesting conversation I was having with some of my colleagues the other day, we were talking about the fact that all the oldest hands in the world actually come from areas where Neanderthals and Denisovans were.

What if they taught us to make hands?

The discs and the hands are the big thing there.

And then that artifact sitting there.

So those are the big ones.

The thing I would like to point out, though, which probably a lot of people don't realize, is so Monte Castillo has five sites, five different caves in it, all of which have art in them.

Yes.

And one of the other caves, this one's close to the public, but this one is La Pasiaga, which has the ladder shape in it, which dates to 65,000 plus.