Dr. Genevieve von Petzinger

Because it's literally, I think, about 200 meters further along.

So...

El Castillo seems to have been the living cave.

It had a big, beautiful veranda out front, basically, right?

It had the big overhang, great view.

It was the big cave.

It makes sense.

La Paseaga does not have any evidence of really living at the entrance, so it's probably more a cave they visited with a purpose.

And it's got, again, several areas.

And there is, again, here we've got... There's definitely multiple layers of art.

Like, probably, again, at least I would say... I would guess Neanderthal...

stuff that's around 25,000-ish plus years.

And then there's stuff that's probably around the 15,000 to 17,000 in there.

So again, lots of layering of things.

So keep that in mind, because that's one of the things that's confusing about the ladder is that in one of the passages of La Pasiaga, there is this faded out thing that sort of officially is called the Scalara form, which is Latin for ladder shaped.

And this one, again, was dated based on a little chunk, it looks like a little cauliflower, of calcite that grew over top of the paint.

And so, again, they were able to date that and to show that that grew there 65,000 years ago, roughly.

So with the latter, it's confusing for people, I think, sometimes, because it's basically like a big...

vertical thing with like crossbars right doesn't mean it's an actual ladder but it looks like that to our eyes and there's also though somebody's drawn a deer in it but using different pigment so from a different time period so probably later because again we don't have any evidence of Neanderthals making animal art right but yeah so it's a very complicated and there's some dots nearby but if you look at it using an algorithm that allows us to actually identify very specific shades of red

you can see that it's different colors.