Elliot Lawry

We've kind of heard from all these different parties.

I think it's worth

talking a little bit more about maths generally you mentioned earlier that you dropped off because you felt like it was getting a little bit ridiculous or out of hand without was being produced and I've seen that a lot in the discourse around this story this week and it sort of made me think about the changing nature of reality tv what do you think's going on there

I mean, it's really central to this conversation that maths is a ratings juggernaut.

It rates really highly in a very competitive field and in a context where conventional terrestrial television we're always hearing is falling behind streaming, is not of interest to young people.

Yes.

But a show like maths really stands...

on its own or in a narrow category of being a traditional broadcast that young people really sit down and make time for.

But psychologists, including one named Jo Hemmings, who actually previously worked on Maths UK herself, wrote in The Guardian that duty of care standards

are high.

They are higher than maybe they used to be, but we can't avoid the fact that reality shows have to keep pushing conflict, have to keep upping the ante, upping the drama every season to hold on to audiences.

So Joe Hemmings wrote, "'Participants are in a bubble.

They're vulnerable, but the boundaries of entertainment are always being pushed for each series.

The more you push, the more incidents might happen, no matter what you do.'"

And I think that really speaks to the fact that earlier seasons of Maths Around the World are described as being a bit more documentary style, a lot more aimed at actually successfully pairing couples together.

The show, I think, we initially deemed a success if couples stayed together or if they went on to have a real-life relationship, whereas now that's almost besides the point whether or not the relationships will exist after the show.

Yeah, and do you think that assessment tracks for Maths Australia as well?

Because I think...

From memory, we've had our own sort of set of controversies coming out of there.

Yeah, it certainly tracks here.