Ira Glass

I don't know if it's worth complicating this analysis with this example, but I was actually able to think of one instance of the Democrats doing the kind of bully lie that Masha writes about. And it's a big one that we all just lived through. It seemed like it was done more out of desperation than anything else and not part of a daily pattern of making false claims with no facts behind them.

I don't know if it's worth complicating this analysis with this example, but I was actually able to think of one instance of the Democrats doing the kind of bully lie that Masha writes about. And it's a big one that we all just lived through. It seemed like it was done more out of desperation than anything else and not part of a daily pattern of making false claims with no facts behind them.

The thing I'm talking about is Joe Biden and his advisers concealing how he had aged in office. I talked to Masha about this. Like that basically was making everybody in the country choose either you accept what we're telling you about Biden or you're against us.

The thing I'm talking about is Joe Biden and his advisers concealing how he had aged in office. I talked to Masha about this. Like that basically was making everybody in the country choose either you accept what we're telling you about Biden or you're against us.

The reason Masha is so aware of what that feels like is that they grew up in Russia, left, came back, then fled when it became impossible for them to keep living there under Vladimir Putin. Masha says the bully lie is significant because it's not a traditional part of American politics. But it is a very standard tactic of authoritarian leaders around the world and in history.

The reason Masha is so aware of what that feels like is that they grew up in Russia, left, came back, then fled when it became impossible for them to keep living there under Vladimir Putin. Masha says the bully lie is significant because it's not a traditional part of American politics. But it is a very standard tactic of authoritarian leaders around the world and in history.

I've just actually written and reported a ton about this. I wrote a book about Putin and another one about Russia's recent turn to totalitarianism. Authoritarian government, just to remind you, is basically a government run by one person, a strongman leader who holds all the power, which, of course, is different from our system of checks and balances.

I've just actually written and reported a ton about this. I wrote a book about Putin and another one about Russia's recent turn to totalitarianism. Authoritarian government, just to remind you, is basically a government run by one person, a strongman leader who holds all the power, which, of course, is different from our system of checks and balances.

Masha wrote about the bully lie in their book about Donald Trump's first term. The book is called Surviving Autocracy. That's what I asked him to read from a little earlier. In that book, Masha argues that Donald Trump does lots of things that we normally see from authoritarian leaders, not just the bully lies. And I think it's worth talking about it for a little bit here.

Masha wrote about the bully lie in their book about Donald Trump's first term. The book is called Surviving Autocracy. That's what I asked him to read from a little earlier. In that book, Masha argues that Donald Trump does lots of things that we normally see from authoritarian leaders, not just the bully lies. And I think it's worth talking about it for a little bit here.

I found it eye-opening to see it laid out point by point. And I just want to say, if you like the president and you think talking about him this way is just way, way out of line, just stay with me. We talked about that. I feel very aware that people who like the president may hear you say the word autocrat and just think it's nuts.

I found it eye-opening to see it laid out point by point. And I just want to say, if you like the president and you think talking about him this way is just way, way out of line, just stay with me. We talked about that. I feel very aware that people who like the president may hear you say the word autocrat and just think it's nuts.

And you're just looking for any alarmist thing you can say to make him look bad. Can I ask you to make your case for a skeptical listener? What are the things that Donald Trump does wrong? that usually we see from autocrats and not from kind of just like regular American politicians who might lie and do whatever it is that they do?

And you're just looking for any alarmist thing you can say to make him look bad. Can I ask you to make your case for a skeptical listener? What are the things that Donald Trump does wrong? that usually we see from autocrats and not from kind of just like regular American politicians who might lie and do whatever it is that they do?

Like what are the things that he's doing that are more typical for autocrats?

Like what are the things that he's doing that are more typical for autocrats?

Right. You're making me think of him deciding to weigh in and ban congestion pricing in New York City from the White House.

Right. You're making me think of him deciding to weigh in and ban congestion pricing in New York City from the White House.

And saying, I'm the king. Gone with the king. Right.

And saying, I'm the king. Gone with the king. Right.