Jake Humphrey

Yeah.

We present it in such binary terms that I think your book shines a light in, in the shadows to go, but none of this is, is, is so obviously right or wrong or good or bad.

It's, it's so subtle.

Which led me to,

Do you think sports become too reliant on the idea that testing alone is almost like the bulwark against fairness and all things being equal?

And can I just ask you about something like the EPO?

What is that worth in sort of seconds on a bike?

If you've got higher levels in your system, what does that translate to?

Wow.

Because that's, I mean, that's far, far beyond the marginal gains.

You know, like you hear about bringing your own mattress or having a certain pillow and what that can offer you versus like rolling the dice and sort of start injecting EPO.

There's no contest, is there?

So what was your view then when you heard about the enhanced games?

Oh, right, okay.

But based on what you were talking about there, sort of like WADA chasing down people and the constant innovations of these sort of illegal substances that people are doing,

You could argue that at least it's transparent, the enhanced games.

You know, at least they're telling you that people are cheating or sort of crossing that ethical line.

Yeah, and then you've got that dirty bacterial water that you've injected instead.

look but there's something for me about like like as you talk about it like some of the stuff if it's sprinting or if it's cycling then you go well the question there is the personal reset is to you you know you might cheat but when you get sports like boxing for example where the where the where the whole purpose is to render your opponent um in a position where he can't continue the fight you

The idea of allowing people to get away or have these loopholes to take drugs where you can render somebody damaged as a consequence of it, it really starts to turn my stomach.