Paul Clitheroe

And in particular, if the kids ask you a question about, can we have a better car or why aren't we going on holidays this year?

It's a wonderful opportunity to really turn financial literacy into the words you use, James, financial capability, because there's nothing like kids and grandkids understanding we all have limits.

We're all trying to get by.

And it's too often we just say, oh, no, this might scare you or you're too young or whatever.

You've got to be appropriate.

But gee, if Australians spoke more about money in an appropriate fashion with kids, that would help the cause no end, James.