Saskia Vandoorne

So, yeah.

you know, I would add actually onto the better training that maybe we need to talk more about how these cases are handled in the courtrooms.

And bringing it back to the emotional context, the fact that a lot of these women are in relationships or married or have children, like,

And taking the children away, for example, like that is a pressure point that I think for most women would be too much to bear.

And it goes again to speaking about how cruel this crime can be.

that is also a massive part of it.

It's like, how can you weaponize the children or how can you... And this is why this crime is underreported, Gemma, because, you know, in some cases, women will look at what life will be like without the husband and they think, well, financially, I just won't be able to bear it.

I'll lose the house.

How will the kids, you know, survive if now the main breadwinner has gone?

And...

Again, it just goes to show why it is so hard in some of these cases for the women to come forward and press charges because they worry about the financial aspect.

They worry about keeping the children.

And all of these kind of circumstances come together and make them feel like there is just no road possible and that they're just going to have to handle this by themselves.

It was a really emotional moment for Giselle Palico when I was able to share some of the messages that Zoe and Amanda had for her.

I think Giselle, she's such a humble person.

And for her to listen to how she's affected, how she's impacted these women and the courage she's given them, I think it was a really big moment for her.

And I will add now, you know, there's Giselle Pelico out there now, but there is also Amanda and Zoe now.

You know, since they have come forward, they started, it's been one of the most beautiful things that's come out of this investigation, is they've started a campaign together, again, to raise awareness and to essentially have a fund now to help women who are wanting to leave work.

their husbands who have just discovered that they are being sexually abused, drugged, sexually abused by their partners.

And, you know, they have been raising awareness.