Tony James

More bankers, more clients, more of a track record, more capital, more distribution.

There was nothing we had that should win.

So that struck me as a way to kind of end run.

They weren't really doing it themselves.

It was a new sector.

We could buy clients we couldn't actually win competitively and then do all their investment banking business.

And that really fed on itself.

Out of the, we built a private equity business.

I think our first fund had a 90% IRR.

Those days it was easier because prices were lower, companies were more under managed, and essentially you could borrow 100% of the purchase price.

So just by rolling your fees, you could kind of own the company.

And then that drove, then we had to, could and had to build a high yield business and other debt businesses.

A lot of those were our biggest IPOs.

One thing led to another.

So we built the whole investment banking business

Cheek by Jal was the principal business.

So it was, in that sense, it was a true merchant bank.

There was no reason, really, that a KKR or a Forsman Little that were the big players back then should ever have existed.

Your old firm, Goldman, should have beaten them.

Yep.