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Indo Sport

Sarah Keane in studio | Plans for Irish Cricket, facing into sport's culture 'reckoning'

24 Mar 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

1.364 - 25.735 Joe

This is an Irish independent podcast. Now you're welcome along. We have a brilliant guest on the show for you today. Sarah Keane is a name you're quite probably familiar with if you're into sports. Sarah was the Swim Ireland CEO for just over 20 years. She went into that job having been a solicitor in 2004. Very difficult time to take charge at Swim Ireland, mired in all sorts of

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25.715 - 51.722 Joe

sexual abuse scandals government funding suspended it was at rock bottom really and she departs 20 plus years later with things much changed for the better and you would have seen as well she recently on two occasions went for the role of FAI CEO that was in 20 and in 24 she was down to the last two candidates on both occasions and the FAI went in a

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51.702 - 65.29 Joe

Sarah would have been the perfect candidate to maybe lead change in the FAI, but their loss has been Cricket Ireland's gain. She was appointed as CEO of Cricket Ireland last year and is about three weeks now in the job proper. So...

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65.573 - 84.754 Joe

We were delighted she came to the studio to talk to us about a whole host of things, her vision for Cricket Ireland and cricket in this country, and also just on reflections on over 20 years in sports administration and managing elite sport. And she had lots to talk to us about on that front as well. So without further ado, in studio earlier on, here's Sarah Keane.

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84.774 - 86.937 Joe

Sarah Keane, Cricket Ireland CEO, you're very welcome.

87.317 - 88.999 Sarah Keane

Thank you. Delighted to be here.

89.139 - 91.041 Joe

Congratulations. Why Cricket Ireland?

92.911 - 111.24 Sarah Keane

Quite a few reasons, really. I think that as a full member of the ICC, cricket has so many opportunities and potential, but also challenges. There's a lot of responsibility that comes with being a full member and we're almost 10 years in and some of those challenges are more apparent now.

111.22 - 131.195 Sarah Keane

in terms of the financial sustainability of being a full member, in terms of how we bring women more into the games, in terms of how we develop the game with massive infrastructure challenges and that. So I was excited by both the opportunity and the challenge. Obviously, we're building a new stadium, co-hosting the 2030 Men's World Cup. It's back in the Olympics.

Chapter 2: What motivated Sarah Keane to become the CEO of Cricket Ireland?

365.02 - 383.518 Sarah Keane

So my understanding from speaking to a lot of people is, first of all, cricket has been heavily male dominated and continues to be in a lot of ways. So I think our participation numbers would be less than 30% for women and girls. So we still have a long way to go in that regard. So there's a lot of work underway with clubs to try and build a youth section for

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383.498 - 412.341 Sarah Keane

and a female section so that is a massive growth piece and speaking to anybody that is a massive growth piece without a doubt the other piece is the inclusion ability for others I mean cricket can be adapted quite well so the ability for others of different abilities to be involved and to join in so that's the second part which I think we've started to do but I think there's a lot more we can do which is again I'm excited by the potential of it and the third of course is that it is a sport where we have a lot of new people coming into the country who for them it's a really important sport and want to play it

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412.321 - 428.179 Sarah Keane

And the challenge is sometimes now they're playing in public parks without, you know, which things can be rained off or maybe they want to be there for hours and yet somebody else has to come in. So I think it's a dilemma, but it's one that we prefer to have rather than not. So cricket is the second biggest sport in the world.

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429.4 - 437.569 Sarah Keane

So I suppose I challenge a bit around talking about certain sports in terms of using the word minority sport. And it's a growing sport here, but it has an opportunity to be massive.

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437.617 - 453.33 Joe

Yeah, because as I understand it, we had Ed Joyce in a couple of months ago and I was just asking him, so where around the country has it played? And, you know, he mentioned the usual spots. Everyone knows about North County Dublin being a hub and pockets of South Dublin. And I said, OK, outside of Dublin. And then it became very sparse.

454.323 - 472.522 Sarah Keane

Yes, but I keep meeting people who tell me that they've played it and for some reason, even in public schools, because it's associated with private schools or it's associated with the summer. And I was down with Minister McConnellogue and others down in Wexford and they've just, they're about to turn this out on an athletic pitch, but also a cricket pitch.

472.602 - 480.33 Sarah Keane

And, you know, there's a lot of conversations going on. So I think people are seeing it as an opportunity to, you know, that people want to play it.

480.31 - 496.871 Joe

And so you'd have a great sense of how all this works, the machinations around funding. Is that a case of Cricket Ireland go to, or clubs go to government appeal for grants, build pitches? That's how it all happens? Or do Cricket Ireland take some of that ICC money, which is flooding in? 15 million a year, I read.

496.891 - 509.734 Sarah Keane

70% of our income is from the ICC. But I mean, with the US dollar movement... which is quite challenging these days, that can go up and down. We could lose a million in a year based on that, despite our best efforts to hedge, etc.

Chapter 3: What challenges does Cricket Ireland face regarding funding and infrastructure?

1234.006 - 1246.344 Sarah Keane

And ideally, I'd be coming in here six months later and you'd be asking me, what have you done in relation to the Afghan women's team? Or has that now gone off the agenda, Sarah, because a couple of months ago you played them and everybody's maybe forgotten about it now? So for me, that's a really important part around it.

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1247.065 - 1265.091 Sarah Keane

But I do think that there's no right or wrong answer in many of these situations. Like sport, global sport, Irish sport is at least providing an opportunity to talk about these things because they're not being talked about in a lot of other places. These wider discussions about our values and our cultures and our morals. And it's one of the reasons people... live in Ireland.

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1265.331 - 1280.713 Sarah Keane

I mean, it's not easy to live here with the challenges that we have as a nation. But I think one of the reasons people like living here is because we do believe in the cultures and the values that in a lot of ways, some of them are challenged. We obviously know that we have issues around racism and all these things we could talk about. But that is one of the things that we find strong here.

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1280.833 - 1300.387 Sarah Keane

But we are part of the ICC. The ICC have made a decision to allow Afghan men to continue playing. They are financially and otherwise trying to support the displaced Afghan women's team. And we are part of that group. And as I said, there are responsibilities that go with being allowed to be part of those groups.

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1300.568 - 1305.518 Joe

And what would the repercussions have been if you'd said no thanks?

1307.405 - 1324.324 Sarah Keane

Well, in terms of this year, there wouldn't have been any legal or financial repercussions. OK, this was not an ICC tournament. This is a bilateral, you know, there's an honor piece here and that they've the way these things work is when you go and play one of these teams, they once you get there, they cover everything. Right.

1324.364 - 1342.366 Sarah Keane

So when therefore, you know, you you do the deal whereby they come back here and you do the same for them here so that we have been hosted by Afghanistan. So it's there's an honour piece around the fact that we have to return that. And that's been outstanding for a while, as I understand it. But that's only a part of it. There are no legal or financial implications.

1342.466 - 1362.171 Sarah Keane

It's more about the wider pieces we go on. These are one of the nations that are part of the ICC. It's one of the nations that would be close to us in terms of performance. It's if we refuse to play them now, what does that look like next year and the year after? They're, you know, they are in... They are part of the 12 nations. And then do we go on to the ICC and not play them?

1362.191 - 1371.362 Sarah Keane

Are we not in the tournament or whatever? So I think the decision was made that we will play the 12 nations. That is what being part of an ICC full member is. And we will own that decision.

Chapter 4: How is Cricket Ireland addressing diversity and inclusion in the sport?

1580.539 - 1593.484 Sarah Keane

And we need to look at that and also then look at the World Cup. cup formats and we now have a women's team that we also need to ensure that we're like they'd be on more they not not they aren't on full contracts as long and you know it's it's developing part of our sport so.

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1594.066 - 1597.894 Joe

Sergeant Drupt is the current plan to try and be as good at all three as possible in the men's?

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1598.127 - 1605.395 Sarah Keane

I think at the moment we've been trying just to manage it as best we can, depending on what's up in front of us. And I don't think that's really where we want to be.

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1605.756 - 1608.178 Joe

Okay. So how do you decide where to go?

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1608.499 - 1627.302 Sarah Keane

So in the women's, they work on kind of these four-year cycles, whereby, you know, you have a plan as to what the next four years look like in terms of ICC tournaments, but also in terms of then who... Who plays who and when? So in the women's side, that is clear now. Right. So we know that. So therefore, from a performance perspective, you can plan ahead better.

1627.342 - 1646.628 Sarah Keane

On the men's, that has been challenging for us. So we're now entering into discussions about 2027 to 2031. Our financial position, I'll come back to that in a second, will become different once the stadium and other things like that, more infrastructure becomes available to us. But in advance of that, we have our broadcast deal, which is up at the end of this year.

1646.648 - 1663.309 Sarah Keane

So the ICC has a broadcast deal, which is up at the end of next year. We have a broadcast deal that's up at the end of this year. In order for us to do a decent deal, we have to be playing some nations that everybody wants to see. So a lot of this is by agreement. They're not necessarily forced to play you. They're not necessarily required to play you. A lot of this is by agreement.

1663.329 - 1680.337 Sarah Keane

So what does this FTP look like for the men particularly, so the women's is more planned ahead? That's a big piece that we've got to work on. So one of the things we're doing at the moment in the next couple of weeks and onwards is what do we think it's going to look like? What will that mean for us in terms of those three formats? What does that mean in terms of where we have money?

1680.397 - 1697.06 Sarah Keane

And it will probably come down to as well, well, we can afford to play X amount of cricket in Ireland, afford to play X amount of cricket abroad. Where does that leave us from a performance perspective? In order that, like, do we have to start looking at where we put more resources? And I think that would be an important part of the discussion.

Chapter 5: What is Sarah Keane's vision for women's cricket in Ireland?

1774.471 - 1798.572 Sarah Keane

it's not about excelling but can do well in or enjoy or have a level of competence in you've got to be open to a sport evolving and that's why young people's voices in decision making is really important because we have a generation of young people now I find them really exciting because they're not afraid to fail they're not afraid to talk about it they're not afraid to sort of put themselves out there put their brand out there this is a lot of the ones I've met now um

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1798.552 - 1820.937 Sarah Keane

They believe in legacy. The world is global for them in a way it never was certainly when I was growing up. And therefore, from that perspective, they have vision in a way that I don't think my generation did. It forces the rest of us to ask ourselves questions, but we have to have young people in our decision making. It's their future. And I still think we're working on that in Irish sport.

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1820.957 - 1822.439 Sarah Keane

I wouldn't say where we should be.

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1822.579 - 1825.302 Joe

Yeah, yeah. You said the finances there is a final one on...

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1825.282 - 1843.608 Sarah Keane

Yeah, it's just that we do get a substantive amount of money from the ICC, which we're very grateful for. And obviously then Cricket Orange has some sponsors and, you know, other ways of bringing income as well. But I think there probably isn't an understanding around the financial obligations of being part of a member of an ICC member.

1843.648 - 1845.571 Joe

You're not getting that 15 million a year for nothing.

1845.932 - 1861.016 Sarah Keane

No, but actually we're being challenged by the fact that In general, when we run series here or events here, we run them at a loss, which really questions how many of them we can run and also the certainty around them. So I think that sustainable business model is one of the things that we have to get a better grasp on.

1861.036 - 1863.04 Joe

Presumably the new stadium, it won't run at a loss then.

1864.162 - 1871.862 Sarah Keane

Well... Some of that will depend on what we agree with Sport Ireland around rental and all those kind of things. So some of that is still up for discussion.

Chapter 6: How does Cricket Ireland plan to improve participation in the sport?

2040.519 - 2056.962 Sarah Keane

As I understand it, and John has never really spoken about it, and John moved on from the organisation, that he was going before this all came out. I think it's important to say that, right? So from a point of view of us having a wider discussion about what this would mean, that never happened because he was leaving the organisation anyway. Yeah.

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2056.942 - 2072.169 Sarah Keane

But in terms of what the findings were, they were not of something that would have gone to a statutory authority. They were not of something that would have had him out of the sport, anything like that. So I think that's never emerged either in terms of what the recommendation would have been, in terms of what would have happened all that time ago.

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2072.73 - 2090.011 Sarah Keane

You're talking about poor practice as opposed to something more substantive. And I think the challenge we have all the time is, is when is something significant? When is it poor practice? When is it something that needs to be taken away from an organisation and gone out? All of those kind of things that we're grappling with.

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2090.732 - 2101.507 Sarah Keane

And in terms of what we did ourselves, it was more looking at what has come up over the last number of years or what hasn't come up and how we dealt with things. So that's what we would have looked at as best we could.

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2101.728 - 2123.938 Joe

Yeah, well, that's the area I wanted to get your thoughts on. Whereas you said certain practices are just outdated. Roy Keane will tell a story about Brian Clough punching him in the face and the room will laugh. You know, that's the way it was kind of done. And it does sort of feel like this decade in particular, the rowing thing has it in common, say the allegations against John Rudd.

2123.918 - 2139.801 Joe

It's like the old school push people past a certain point methods meet modern day sensibilities or a sense of what's proper in a professional organisation. It feels like there's a reckoning there at the moment in sport today.

2140.912 - 2146.968 Sarah Keane

Yeah, it's a really interesting one because, so first of all, you can't put them all together. Totally different. Okay.

2147.43 - 2156.153 Joe

Because they're... Say someone comes, Sarah, Coach X is screaming in my face every day. Coach X says to you, yeah, I'm a coach.

2156.2 - 2170.842 Sarah Keane

No, that's not acceptable. OK, so let's be clear. So, for example, Swim Ireland had on this and it's been reviewed and revised because after the Olympics, Swim Ireland did a culture review with coaches and then did a culture review with athletes. A lot of support from Sport Ireland around that. And we had done one a couple of years before that as well.

Chapter 7: What are the implications of Ireland's series against Afghanistan?

2691.07 - 2705.873 Joe

What you said there was fascinating about, you know, talking to someone for longer than a minute when you're bone-drying clothes and they're in their swimwear, not a good practice. Are there any other examples that became the norm in swim Ireland that people might be just interested to hear? I hadn't contemplated that aspect before, for instance.

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2706.106 - 2722.566 Sarah Keane

Well, one of the other things we would have is that we have a parent on duty at every training session. So, and training sessions don't go ahead if there's a parent on duty. If there's a parent on duty, we'll check, is there 30 kids in the pool? Is there still 30 kids in the pool? If someone left the pool, okay, maybe someone's gone to the bathroom. Are they back two minutes later?

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2722.846 - 2727.011 Sarah Keane

Where is the coach? Are they always visible? Are they always visible with an athlete?

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2727.311 - 2728.333 Joe

Is this at the elite level?

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2728.353 - 2730.075 Sarah Keane

No, no, this is the whole way through our club structure.

2730.095 - 2731.236 Joe

The whole way through every club structure.

2731.216 - 2748.108 Sarah Keane

Every club, an amazing community who do that because they believe in, we can never forget, Swim Ireland can never forget its history. So it has to continuously work to try and put in place practices that make it harder for bad people to do things. So it's in those environments that it's really important.

2748.288 - 2767.179 Sarah Keane

Every Swim Ireland club has a child safeguarding lead who has a direct relationship, ideally into our head of safeguarding over time. And they do monthly forums, talk about different issues, talk about different things, even things like, for example, you know, you've upped the performance standards from this. So you have a kid who is 14 and would have made nationals from 11, 12, 13, 14.

2767.26 - 2785.109 Sarah Keane

You've upped the standard. They won't make it next year, even if they're making progress. Is that actually, is that in the best interest of that child? How do you value, how do you, how do you work that out against what's right for performance? So we allow those discussions. You need the input of people who are looking at the welfare side into those conversations as well as the performance side.

Chapter 8: How does Sarah Keane view leadership in sports administration?

3786.994 - 3809.66 Sarah Keane

Questions around, in my opinion, level of performance. OK, but we have an opportunity to change here the culture of this, of our island. And I think that's really exciting. And we also have an opportunity from a performance perspective to, like, I think we fall off a little bit, stagnate a little bit in terms of performance to get back out there against the best in the world.

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3810.442 - 3828.027 Sarah Keane

And, you know, I'm up for that. I mean, I, you know, I know we want everyone to qualify. We want to do well on Thursday night and, you know, look to qualify, et cetera. But where are we ranked in the world as well? You know, that is a challenge. But the other thing is that, you know, we need to look outside. Like if you take cricket, for example.

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3828.007 - 3847.612 Sarah Keane

Cricket doesn't have a massive pathway because we don't have... Our pathway used to be county cricket in England. So if you could play for Ireland and you could play county cricket in England and you'd get the exposure and you'd also be paid to do it, you know, you could have a livelihood around it. Now, this is my understanding, obviously, from what I've read and understood.

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3848.373 - 3863.615 Sarah Keane

That was closed off to us around the same time. It wasn't really Brexit. It was to do with being a full member of the ICC, right? Because it meant then that we were foreign players And there's only two foreign players per team or whatever. And they were coming from elsewhere. So that was closed off to us. We had an academy program for a period of time. You'll pick athletes.

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3863.635 - 3878.217 Sarah Keane

Like Ed Joyce would have been through the kind of cricket. And you get others who would have been through when we had an academy. We don't have that anymore. So at the moment, Irish cricket is really struggling on the pathway front. So if we're going to support other sports, then we need to look at all the sports around this question.

3878.658 - 3895.121 Sarah Keane

So, you know, I'm delighted to see the FAI get funding for that 3 million for the pathway. But my question now is, is cricket going to get it? I mean, we gave 600,000 to the women's rugby team. Is the Irish women's cricket team going to get that amount of money? And they're up and coming. They're actually higher performing than the men at this point in time. They're in the World Cup.

3895.663 - 3913.799 Sarah Keane

You know, we have to be ranked eight, top eight at the World Cup in order to qualify for the next World Cup. So I think there's those discussions. Like when I was part of the Olympic Federation, there was this conversation around, if you put all the Olympic sport together, we're way bigger than any other sport in this country. So why is the suggestion that there's a big three?

3913.9 - 3932.003 Sarah Keane

Actually, there should be a big four. And so from my perspective, well, if you look actually at a lifestyle, if you look across, you know, it's not the current three big sports because they're not what people from a participation perspective, you may follow them, but actually the It's running, it's cycling, it's walking, it's swimming. That's what people do from a lifestyle perspective.

3932.023 - 3944.66 Sarah Keane

So we, you know, and if they're the big sports, some are performing particularly well on the world stage, others are not. So we really need to start looking at kind of that wider piece around it. So for me, I'm excited by the fact that I want to have a go at having the putting crickets case out there.

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