Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Chapter 2: What is the current situation with RTÉ?
Good afternoon. You are very welcome to LiveLine. 51551 is the number for your texts. You can reach me on email, LiveLine at rte.ie or the WhatsApp number to give me a call 08748488888. You can call us as well on the landline 015 25 47 47. So that's 015 25 47 47 as you will have been listening to the news at one.
You'll be well aware that the Oireachtas Media Committee is ongoing with the grilling of RTE senior management. Some of you may well be following that live. Others wish you were following it live. I suspect many, many more would prefer stick pins in your eyes than follow an Oireachtas Media Committee live. Nevertheless,
Lots of people have been getting in touch with us about what is happening there. And Maurice is on the line. Maurice, what do you make of the current issues at the National Broadcaster?
I'm afraid, Kevin, it's a sinking ship. A lot of people believe now that RT is a sinking ship and it's time for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, to come out instead of this drip, drip, drip, drip that we're getting all the time from this situation.
I mean, I don't want to use the word corrupt, but it does look like we're looking at a broadcaster in a complete meltdown situation where accountability is very, very hard to achieve full accountability. And I think people are very disappointed by it. We've got a big back We've got a big backlash from the licence payers as well.
According to Unpussed, 8,000 people are not paying the licence fee and they're being brought to court. So it's a very, very serious situation. There was even talk of Kevin Backhurst now getting an extra 20 grand and you've got pay disparities too in RT between senior staff and junior staff producing a very, very, very toxic environment indeed.
I don't know why anybody would want to work there to be perfectly honest with you.
Would you... Give any credence or credit then to what Kevin Backhurst had to say to those accusations that there's been a kind of a drip drip. I mean, he rejected that. He said there hasn't been a drip drip that since the kind of 18 months of scandal, there really hasn't been anything until this. And this is an issue that was brought to light because they were being transparent.
They identified something. They fixed it. They told the minister they fixed it. And that's kind of resulted in this public opprobrium.
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Chapter 3: How are listeners reacting to the Oireachtas Committee hearings?
From a public point of view, RTE is toxic. It looks like a casino, a bank, a place of, you know, where public service, public service broadcasting, what does that mean? Public service broadcasting, when you've got presenters slash producers making huge amounts of money and it has to come to light and the auditors aren't happy with it.
And then, of course, at the Public Accounts Committee, Ciarán Lynch made it very, very clear that they presented false accounts. I mean, if I presented false accounts, I'd be prosecuted.
There were serious questions over how salaries were compiled and reported and all of that, as you said, over the last few years. But again, and I don't want to sound like I'm just kind of beating the same drum over and over again. But I just wonder, like, what are senior management at the moment supposed to be doing differently?
Well, government, first and foremost, is not happy with RT. That's the first thing to be said. I mean, there's no way in the world the minister and the government are happy with RT's transparency. They just aren't. And you can ask any of them. Even Micheál Martin is very clear about that. They're still lacking for transparency in RT. So that's where the problem is.
No, I know that. But, Maurice, what should they have done differently? I'll keep asking.
What should they have done? I think, first of all, they should have answered all the questions at the PAC committee that they wanted. More effort should have been made to bring Dee Forbes to the committee.
Have you been watching the committee today?
I didn't watch the committee today, but I watched it extensively.
They barely had a chance to answer a question because every time they try and answer it, the politicians shut them down.
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Chapter 4: What issues are being raised about RTÉ's management?
Now, you're dealing with public money here. This is public money, and the public have a right. No wonder the TDs are furious. Okay, management doctrine is... stave a sinking ship at the moment. But there is this perception. Kevin Backhurst, he has to, I think, give up every document that RTE ever has. All the accounts, everything has to be given over. And that's not happened.
A lot of the documentation that was supposed to come before the Public Accounts Committee never actually arrives.
Yeah, there was. Sinead Gibney asked about that, I think, today at the committee now, while she asked that somebody who was there with RTE provided the information. But certainly, I think, they thought some would have been forthcoming beforehand.
That wasn't... There's been an enormous amount of documentation that has not... Alan Kelly as well, he was there as well. They've all been looking for documentation that has not been supplied before because of all legal... And that's the problem. There needs to be the truth. Everything...
But you said because of legal, you kind of flew past that as if it's kind of slightly trivial. I mean, if legal advice is there's certain documents that you can't make public. I mean, are you suggesting that you just ignore that legal advice?
Well, what I'm saying, well, they could give them under seal. They could give them under seal to the committee if they want to know without actually making the details of the public.
You know as well as I do, Maurice. I mean, you tell a politician one thing and they'll tell 100 people kind of within 30 seconds. They're like the red button on your Sky Remote, politicians. I mean, you know what I mean? You couldn't trust them as far as you throw them with information.
So like if the legal advice, but again, just if you kind of blew past it, if the legal advice is that there's certain document you cannot share for commercial sensitivities, for personal privacy, whatever it happens to be. Are you saying that you just, you ignore that legal advice?
Well, it's public money. Hold on a second. This is public money we're talking about.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of salary disparities at RTÉ?
That's right. I apologise. That's right.
Yeah, but again, a misstatement of fees.
This looks sleazy and corrupt. It just looks sleazy and corrupt from a public point of view. I mean, we've had corruption in this country before and we know what it did. RT is in serious trouble with this. It's one thing, it's another thing. How long more can this broadcaster have any credibility? And there's payment scandals after payment scandals.
How long is this going to last before the ship completely sinks?
Ger?
I think he's very little to be worrying about. I'm sorry, I have to go back to work.
All right, we'll let your peacock go back to work.
Well, from my point of view, the only thing I watch on Virgin FM, the only thing I watch on Virgin Media is Heartbeat, to be honest, and the odd programme, maybe, but I don't watch... Well, I'm going to come to the defence of my former place of work and say The Tonight Show is obviously absolutely brilliant television. I've watched it a few times, I've watched it a few times, but to be honest...
the RTE primetime is fairly good, too. And on another occasion, I have watched The Tonight Show.
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Chapter 6: How has RTÉ's transparency been perceived by the public?
Let's not just keep throwing grains at all days.
Well, T.D. 's salaries and allowances and travel allowances and secretarial allowances and all that are a matter of public record.
They are. But, like, procurement and stuff like that, I wonder how that goes through the process. Oh, I'll bring you for a round of golf somewhere nice and, like, sorry, lots of ways of, you know, let's say, facilitating people. Yeah, but there is... And they're all not clear, cut and straightforward. I'm saying everything needs to... I needs to be dots, the T's need to be crossed.
That's what I'm saying. And it has to be across the board. You cannot isolate certain, you know, public sectors and just lash it all at them.
So, I mean, maybe what politicians, particularly government politicians, might say to that is there's a much more robust public procurement process in Ireland. What you're describing certainly might have been the case in the past.
Because we pay over the odds for a lot of stuff. It hasn't worked, you know, in a lot of instances. And they've been publicised quite recently enough. So, no, I would disagree with that. I think there's lots of layers in it and things can be fudged. But if they're clear and to the point... like show us the fees or the salaries or whatever, you can't deny it if it's on paper.
Well, do you know what I mean? If it's exactly factual.
When it comes to RT, then what additional information do you think should be on paper?
put out there, put all the salaries. And I think anyone who's trying to get to a big contract, they need to say, listen, we have to publish your salary. What, have you a problem with that? And if they've a problem with that, they need to walk. But this is how it is. And you know what I mean, you have to justify your salary. People in private sector have to justify their salary all the time.
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Chapter 7: What are the consequences of the recent scandals for RTÉ?
And now to be, I suppose, this performance in the Public Accounts Committee, which we're seeing more and more regularly, you know, these are all side issues. You know, we have far more serious problems. Health, education, infrastructure. And also, I mean, this, I suppose, the running down of the public broadcaster, you can see
you know, what's happening in America and the media landscape in America, is that where we want to go? Yeah. And, you know, that's where, you know, ultimately, the recognition of public service media, you know, could lead to a situation like what you have in the United States where it's totally partisan.
I just want to go back to, Maurice has been listening to all of this as well. Maurice, would you worry at all that the lesson that some people could take in RT from this is the next time you find something, say nothing? Because if the cost of fixing the problem in the public eye is to be pilloried, just say nothing.
Oh, no, we can't let that happen. You're talking about hundreds of millions.
I know that, and I 100% agree with you. You can't let that happen. But do you not worry that the way people have reacted, and you talked about sending in the Gardaí en masse into RTE to seize every scrap of paper in the place, on foot of the current management finding a problem and fixing it, that the lesson in that is don't tell anyone the next time you find a problem.
Well, that would be a very dangerous situation because it would cost a fortune to clean it all up with committees and all sorts of getting rid of people. There's an enormous amount of redundancy packages being given out at the moment and the public are very concerned about that too as well, about the millions that will have to be paid out getting rid of staff that's
I suppose, have fallen out of favour with the public and with the management themselves that are there at the moment. So you've got all that to think about. Again, the public are very, very angry about this whole situation.
Well, Maurice, the previous scandal, I mean, one of the conditions of the 725 odd million euro that's been made available to RT is that they did make the organisation smaller. And employment law means you have to offer people redundancy.
Yeah, but I know that. But I mean, the bottom line is this. How toxic and how corrupt is RT? A lot of the questions haven't been answered at the committee. And we've had it over the last year. We've had all sorts of committees, you know, and it's been the media commission, the public accounts committee, and the questions haven't been answered. We just don't know where the bottom is.
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Chapter 8: How does the public view RTÉ's accountability?
LiveLine with Ciarán Cuddihy on RTE Radio 1.
51551 is the text number or you can reach me on 015254747. And we have been talking about the ongoing appearance before an Oireachtas Media Committee by RTE Senior Management talking about pay and pensions and... recategorisation and everything else in between. Lots of people have been getting in touch and some, like I said before the break, waiting in the wings.
But I just want to bring in Andrew Walsh, who's been covering all of this for thejournal.ie to catch us up on what's been happening while we've been on air. So, Andrew, what have they been talking about?
Yeah, so I suppose it's continued as it started. I mean, the mood of the committee has been sceptical and it's been openly frustrated. There's a sense among TDs that I mean, they're back dealing with another RTE Transberry controversy just when confidence in the broadcaster was beginning to recover, you know. So, I mean, there's been multiple references of Groundhog Day.
They've repeatedly questioned whether RTE has really learned lessons from the Soberies Candle. But I suppose, I mean, the tone throughout, and especially in the past half an hour, you know, it's still been less explosive than some of the hearings, you know, maybe in 2023.
But there's a clear irritation at the drip-feed nature of these kind of revelations around, you know, that present their classifications.
We actually have a little clip, I think, of some of the questions, as you say, I think that captures that frustration. If people want to take a listen.
Unfortunately, I feel it's the case of deja vu, especially I'm hugely concerned when I heard your comments yesterday that this is the price of transparency. I really feel that you have no idea how the public feel. of what is happening in RTE.
This is like Groundhog Day. It's not three years since the last financial scandal that rocked RTE, and here we are again, embroiled in more controversy. It absolutely beggars belief.
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