Ep 11: WWE Superstar Sheamus - The Business Post Podcast with Daniel McConnell and Peter O'Dwyer

58.934 - 73.356 Daniel McConnell

He's pasty white skin, flaming red hair. He's got a very strong beard, all the rest of it. But he has taken or has been a huge figure in the wrestling world. And I suppose it's probably because it's seen as sport entertainment and not sport. Mm-hmm.

73.336 - 95.344 Daniel McConnell

There might be an element of security, but this is big business like wrestling in America and across the world in the WWE or WWF as it was when I was growing up is massive. Like, I mean, turnovers of nearly 2 billion a year headed for many, many years by the iconic Vince McMahon and his family, his daughter, and now son-in-law Paul Levesque or Triple H now run the business. Oh, wow.

95.324 - 109.187 Daniel McConnell

given there was a whole power struggle there a number of years ago, the company has gone public. You know, it's now a publicly traded company. So like the sort of the wild west or the kind of more extreme elements of wrestling that kind of existed in generations gone by don't exist anymore.

109.207 - 127.396 Daniel McConnell

It's a massive, for an Irish man to not only get to the point of being on television and being kind of as part of the roster, But actually to be a former WWE champion says a lot about Stephen Farrelly's or Sheamus' trajectory and his career. So I thought he was well worth sitting down with.

127.957 - 143.174 Daniel McConnell

And in the interview we go through, I suppose not only his route in to the WWE, I suppose his starting here in Dublin. And kind of into UK wrestling and then kind of making that journey over. But then he talks about his, I suppose, his first being on television competing at that top, top level.

214.613 - 232.119 Daniel McConnell

In the late 90s, early 2000s, there was what was known as the Attitude Era, when the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin was in his pomp. And it was all, they ramped it up in terms of their aggression. Like, they ramped up the sexuality of it. Like, I mean, there was, you know, nudity. There was, like, they really were pushing the boundaries of what they could achieve.

232.559 - 249.955 Daniel McConnell

And then, obviously, as part of the corporatization of the company, they brought it back to a PG kind of... they wanted to appeal to a much broader demographic. And that obviously raised tensions because there were those who obviously yearned for that more extreme element of it or that kind of wilder image. But that was of its time.

250.657 - 269.848 Daniel McConnell

But you're now seeing it has come through that transition where there was concerns around attendances, you know, has it naturally just run out of steam given the fact that it had seen off all its major rivals, WCW had gone, they had bought it out, you know, WWE stands alone almost kind of on a global sense and certainly in a US sense at that level.

269.828 - 287.149 Daniel McConnell

So was it kind of hitting its natural sort of plateau? But what you do see is like, and this is the interesting thing, is that Seamus is not the only Irish star. I mean, there are others, Becky Lynch, there's Finn Balor, there are a number of other Irish stars in the mix who are really competing at that highest level in WWE, which was, I suppose, unheard of in our day.

287.189 - 295.279 Daniel McConnell

We always yearned for the idea of an Irish superstar, but feared that it would be a kind of a diddly-eye kind of class and patty kind of...

473.134 - 473.956 Daniel McConnell

What has your home?

473.976 - 498.538 Sheamus

I just came here to promote, help promote the NFL draft. Obviously, we've got like the Tennessee Titans here, the FINA GAA club, which is great because it's down the road from where I grew up, Cabra, Old Cabra Road. Yeah, it's fantastic. Nashville, Tennessee has become my home away from home. And now I'm home and trying to connect the bridge between Tennessee Titans and Dublin.

498.558 - 521.219 Sheamus

And you also have a connection with Glasnevin Football Club. What's that all about? This is great. Look, you know, it's very, very important to help kids or try to motivate kids as much as possible. Glasnevin. football club, great mentors, great, great managers, great parents. The kids are just fantastic. And obviously sponsor the team, Celtic Warrior Workout sponsor team. So it's great.

521.239 - 529.335 Sheamus

Look, I'm just trying to get back to back to the youth, back to the kids. And of course, still have a connection with Ireland, which is, you know.

529.315 - 548.573 Daniel McConnell

obviously very important to me how does someone from Dublin get involved and become a WWE superstar because look when we were growing up they were all the Americans you might have had the odd Brit like say Davey Boy Smith or whatever but you never saw an Irish superstar no listen it's a lot easier now I think not that it's an easy process it's far from easy but

667.608 - 673.937 Sheamus

So it's, it's all like, it's very hard to know where you're at until you have guys who've done everything in the business.

673.917 - 702.186 Daniel McConnell

assess you and give you feedback on where you are where you are now where you need to be to get to their level talk to me about the brand Seamus because I mean I understand like the formation of you know a new character takes a lot of work it's not it just doesn't happen by accident I mean how where did you arrive at the name Seamus and and calling yourself the Celtic Warrior all that well originally it was Seamus O'Shaughnessy SOS that was the original thing and it was you know I don't at the time not be trying to be arrogant but

702.959 - 727.093 Sheamus

There was no one more Irish looking than me, to be honest, when I started. Pale skin, red hair, fiery red hair. So the name just made a lot of sense. When I got to WB, they just cut out the O'Shaughnessy and just left me with Seamus. So it was, yeah, it was great. It worked out great. But for me, I've added little things to it. I always wanted to bring the real positive vibe of Ireland.

727.073 - 751.917 Sheamus

I kind of incorporated a lot of Celtic mythology, Phil McCool. I used to have a fire at hand, obviously, which is Ulster, and I wanted to incorporate something from all four provinces of Ireland. There used to be five, but there's four now. People know that. I think it was a mead, right? It used to be a province as well. That's where the Hill Tower was.

751.897 - 767.321 Sheamus

So I wanted to incorporate all four of them. And then when I got to WSR training, I took a lot of inspiration from people like Stan Hansen, Brody, more like brawlers. I was a lot heavier back then. So I just had that type of brawler attitude.

877.531 - 907.369 Daniel McConnell

so what happened would be like if you're on the east coast smackdown would be 8pm and then east coast would be 7 so by the way air release so while it's going on they would edit it or cut some stuff out but on the west coast that wasn't going to happen okay and then even to get to that level of success is phenomenal but then talk to me about you know being considered for a championship or to become the standard bearer of the industry I mean that's a huge achievement by any and what was your sense or how did you find out that you were going over as the industry lexicon calls it

907.349 - 927.334 Sheamus

No, so I started at ECW. There was a couple of rumors actually before I started. There was one rumor that I was going to team with Finlay against Mark Henry and Tony Atlas. That went away. Then it was something else that went away. Then I started doing dark matches. And then I mentioned that this... Sorry, for those who are... What's a dark match? A televised match. Okay. A televised match.

927.394 - 942.351 Daniel McConnell

So I basically did a bunch of them, but then... How do you rationalize in your head from going from, say, making that step from, you know, you've landed in the ECW or the WWE to being going on television, then to be in consideration for a championship, if we're going over?

942.803 - 962.646 Sheamus

Just every match. I had a great match with Goldust and then some stuff with Shelton and then he had someone new that I think Randy and John Cena had gone around the post about like for a whole year. So they needed fresh blood. They needed an opponent for John and they saw me as someone raw. I think it came down originally to me and Jack Swagger. And then they're like, they went with me.

962.866 - 973.16 Sheamus

I think I had a match with John in Wales at a live event. They were like, John, this guy has got something different and unique. they gave me an opportunity, I took the book, took it, and I ran with it.

1054.617 - 1062.445 Daniel McConnell

How ruthless an industry is it, and two, how has money changed you, if it has at all? What's the first question? How ruthless is the wrestling industry?

1062.465 - 1084.95 Sheamus

It's a very competitive business. Some people want to be in one position, so that's another thing. I can't sit back and rest on that shit. I can't just say, oh, I did this and this and this. No, I've got to keep proving myself. Again, 19 years in WWE in September and 70 years on TV in June 20th. But I have to go out there every time I prove my worth. Yesterday doesn't matter. Today matters.

1085.23 - 1100.47 Sheamus

Tomorrow matters. Today really matters more than anything. And money, I don't want to leave my money. Money is great. It's definitely great for security and all, but at this stage, I just want to go out there. I want to do what I love, and that's being in the ring in front of a live crowd, putting on banger match after banger match.

1100.45 - 1108.567 Sheamus

being more physical than anyone else that this company has ever seen. I'm pissing off my opponents to the point that they start fighting me back for real. And I love it.

1146.186 - 1166.641 Daniel McConnell

You go around the world and he isn't recognized in Ireland, the UK, wherever you go. And obviously, there's a deeper resonance here. But the business side of it just fascinates me. The fact that he bases himself in Tennessee, I think a bit for life. He said it to me off air, he found a place in America that was as close to Dublin in terms of culture as he could find it.

1167.062 - 1183.18 Daniel McConnell

But I think it's as much that when you're on the road, a couple of hundred times a year and probably now he's probably come to the tail end of his career, probably less so. But you're on the road, like you're taping on a Monday night, you're taping again throughout the weekend, you've got kind of non-televised shows, all that kind of stuff. So it's a busy, busy schedule.

1183.882 - 1205.415 Daniel McConnell

So Brazilian Tennessee probably works for him. But just again, to that scale of what's involved to compete at that level. And he talks about annoying his rivals and competitors and kind of always making them legitimately angry at him. So I just found him, you know, someone who just... For me, you have to just sit back

1205.395 - 1216.519 Peter O'Dwyer

and respect whether you get wrestling or you don't get wrestling you have to kind of sit back and kind of what's really interesting is that like like we speak about rugby players or athletes in general it's obviously a short career it's a very taxing career that he has

1217.073 - 1236.074 Peter O'Dwyer

the ability and necessity, probably, to leverage the strong brands that he has created, because he's only going to have so long in the ring. As you say, some guys seem to go on until their 50s or whatever the other figure is now, probably even more. But yeah, he has to have these outside business interests. I mean, I think he's worked a few Bob now. He's worked a couple of million, right?

1362.03 - 1380.775 Daniel McConnell

And obviously, Seamus is nowhere near the world that we're talking about there. But there was a dark, shady past. And I think the WWE has come in for a very legitimate criticism about how it's treated its talent, overworking them, demanding too much from them, not protecting them when they get injured, not looking after them properly when they get injured, and not giving them employee status.

1380.815 - 1394.712 Daniel McConnell

So yes, it's come on an awful long way. And we've talked about that corporatization of the company. But there are still those legitimate criticisms. And it's not an industry, as he says himself, it's not an industry for the faint-hearted. I mean, it's tough. It might be scripted, but the injuries are real.

1394.752 - 1410.109 Peter O'Dwyer

The blows are real. It seems like an industry, I don't know, you probably have a better sense, that probably even has better days ahead of it as well. It feels like sports entertainment, quote-unquote combat sports, which obviously it is scripted, but they're kind of all having a moment. They feel very made for this time with social media.

1410.089 - 1419.523 Peter O'Dwyer

like the fact that they've gone public and teamed up with the UFC, which is hugely popular. But not knowing much about it, it seems like there's probably even more money to come into this industry.

1419.663 - 1434.085 Daniel McConnell

And that's a big criticism as well, because what they're saying is, is it losing its roots with its more working-class base? You know, in terms of, if you look now, WrestleMania used to be a one-night event, it's now a two-night event, and to try and get tickets to anywhere near where you can actually see the ring... Like you're talking thousands of dollars.