Emma Coombe

Absolutely spot on, Maggie. As a serving executive, you need to evaluate whether a position is something that will enhance or damage your personal reputation. And of course, you also have to be really mindful of the time that's required.

It's so important that we have a good balance of serving executives on boards, but there also needs to be a good number of individuals who are in the portfolio mode or retired mode who can give more time.

When I'm advising first-time non-executive directors, I make sure they're aware how much the workload can fluctuate, particularly during critical periods like acquisitions or leadership transitions. Understanding this helps both the business and the individual make sure that everything can be set up for success.

We now like to bring our second guest into the conversation, Ed Mason, Leadership Advisor at Russell Reynolds Associates London office. Ed, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

Ed, building on what Maggie said about finding the right board opportunity, what's your perspective on how executives should evaluate potential board roles?

It's such an important point, Ed, about being selective and doing your own due diligence really carefully, getting a feeling for what the relationship is like between the chair and the CEO and also the chair and the other directors. Great board chairs want to get the best from their board rather than wanting to run the show.

We'd now like to introduce our third guest, Rusty O'Kelly, Leadership Advisor in RRA's Miami office, into the conversation. Rusty, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

So Rusty, let's demystify the board selection process. In your experience advising executives, what are board chairs looking for in their new directors?

They must provide critical leadership while navigating rapid change and increasing stakeholder scrutiny. So, as an executive, do you have what it takes to thrive in a board role? In today's episode, we're exploring the journey to board director, from evaluating the right opportunities to maximizing your impact once you're there. We'll discuss how to build your board readiness.

I think your point about the board matrix is particularly relevant, Rusty. In my work with nomination committees, I've seen how carefully, working with us, they map out existing board capabilities against future needs. And sometimes a board might have to pass on a brilliant candidate simply because their skills overlap too much with existing directors.

It's rarely about individual qualifications alone, but rather how a new director complements the collective expertise of the board. So coming back to you, Maggie, what do you think are some of the most valuable skills and experiences that candidates should demonstrate when pursuing board opportunities?

Yes, I think the T-shape, Maggie, we've talked about previously on this podcast, and it's so important that individuals can contribute across the whole breadth of the board agenda. So they can contribute to an audit committee because they're financially literate. They have the strategic skills to make sure that management are appropriately incentivized in their role on a

compensation or remuneration committee but then on the vertical of the T is where they as an individual bring real depth of expertise so they can amplify their input as appropriate around their area of real expertise but they don't stay silent across the other parts of the board agenda they appropriately interject because they have a different perspective and a different point of view and that's equally valuable.

So we've covered what attributes organizations are looking for when selecting board candidates, but what specific behaviors truly set exceptional board directors apart from their peers once they're enrolled?

What really stands out to me from these five behaviours is non-executive directors who can strike the right balance between being challenging but also being supportive. We often hear feedback that former CEOs or CFOs make such good non-executive directors because they appreciate the scale of the challenge that the management team is facing into.

navigate the selection process, and leverage your unique perspective to create value in the boardroom. But before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefiners at russellreynolds.com. It's great to hear from you. And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. So let's dive in.

And they are not just asking questions to prove a point and creating a certain level of defensiveness between the non-executives and the executives. It's about pushing the executive management to be the best they can be while still being supportive.

And the last thing that a management team needs coming out of a board meeting is a huge list of additional questions to respond to that takes them a lot more time from their teams when they should be facing into driving the business forward. I think great boards focus on a few key issues and really add value by being as much supportive as they are challenging to the leadership teams.

There's also, of course, the criticality of having independent perspectives, of having the courage to speak up for what you believe in, representing different points of view around the board. I advised on the appointment of a board chair last year. The successful candidate was comfortable making statements that might be seen as somewhat outside of the box, even outlandish.

to provoke a discussion. And it was not what this board was used to at all. But it was fantastic because it opened up different conversations. It really drew the non-executive team together. And frankly, it got them a lot closer to the business, a lot more engaged in what they were trying to achieve.

The one thing you don't want on a board, of course, are a sea of nodding heads, even though it could feel the most comfortable for the people in that room. It's probably the least effective. And that's something that I always hold on to when advising chairs. Ed, I'd like to turn back to you now.

What do you think is the best way to build relationships with other board members once a candidate has joined the board?

I think the board buddy concept is a great way to build trust early in your tenure. I've also witnessed boards pairing up their non-executive directors with a business unit leader and rotating the leader that they pair up with each year.

This gives directors the opportunities to get to know a part of the business in a much more granular way and then to effectively represent it or advocate for it in a board meeting context. Rusty, what advice would you give on how to build strong relationships with other board members?

First up, we'd like to welcome Maggie Benkert, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates New York office into the conversation. Maggie, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

You're right, Rusty. And from our board culture and director behaviour study, we found actually that only 62% of board directors say that they observe non-executive directors on their board actively cultivating relationships with fellow board members. So it is something which the majority of board directors are investing time into, but not everybody is making obvious enough.

And I think there's a lot more that could be done here. I think often those seemingly small gestures can make such a big difference. I also like your suggestion about arriving early because it shows commitment and it creates natural opportunities for relationship building, both with other board directors, but possibly with broader executives in the business as well.

Ed, turning back to you, what do you recommend board directors can do to enhance their effectiveness and influence over time?

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. Today's board directors operate in a complex business landscape, balancing strategic guidance, technological innovation, and heightened governance expectations.

I think we've all seen firsthand how much value board directors get from using their experience and network from another board position or indeed from their executive role, if they're still in a full-time role, to really aid the other business that they're supporting. And that might be leveraging contacts.

Thanks for having me.

It might be bringing different experiences, different perspectives and methodologies together. but it's so helpful to be able to do that. Our time in the lounge now has come to an end. In 30 seconds, this is what we've learned. Be selective about board opportunities. Ensure it aligns with your skill set, values, and career goals.

So Maggie, let's start with the fundamentals of board selection. There are numerous board opportunities available today from public companies to startups. How do you advise executives to evaluate whether a board opportunity is the right fit, both for their career goals and for meaningful impact?

To be effective once in the board director seat, you need to demonstrate five key behaviors. Sound judgment, constructively challenge when appropriate, act with integrity, ask the right questions, and possess an independent perspective. Don't underestimate the importance of building strong connections with fellow board members. Small gestures can make a big difference.

Consistently seek new learnings to stay current during your board tenure and maximize your contribution. If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch. Email your questions to redefiners at russellrentz.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify.

You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership. You can also find us on Instagram at Redefiners Podcast. Until next time, goodbye.

If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch. Email your questions to redefiners at russellreynolds.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership.

That's really interesting, Henrik. And I think all four of these are such core elements to building trust for any leader with their team and also with the stakeholders that they're reporting into. We'd now like to introduce another voice into the conversation, Emmy Melville, Leadership Advisor in RRA's Atlanta office. Emmy, welcome back to the Leadership Lounge.

Emi, in the last few years, increasing global economic and geopolitical uncertainty and huge shifts in the technological landscape has meant that leaders are under more scrutiny than ever before. This changing landscape naturally affects how trust functions within organisations. How is trust evolving in today's leadership environment?

You're right, Emi. Trust should be table stakes in every leadership team. But our research uncovered that only 22% of leaders felt that their C-suite team displays a high level of trust that's visible throughout the organisation. Later in today's episode, we'll hear from some of our experts on the top ways in which C-suite leaders can build trust. and how it can be rebuilt if it's broken.

We've seen in the latest Edelman's Trust Barometer that while trust in businesses remains higher than trust in government and journalists, trust in business leaders is at an all-time low. In the last year, people's fear that business leaders are dishonest has increased by 12%. So as a leader, how can you cultivate trust?

But before we do, I'd like to introduce our third guest, Ilana Abramovich, Leadership Advisor in RRA's London office, into the conversation. She'll discuss some of the top behaviours that trusted leaders demonstrate. Ilana, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

So Ilana, our research has shown that there are specific patterns that distinguish highly trusted executives from their peers. Based on your work with countless senior leadership teams, what are some of the behaviours that consistently mark truly trusted senior leaders?

With trust, consistency really is key. When leaders deliver on promises predictably and repeatedly, it creates a foundation of reliability that's essential for trust. And particularly for CEOs, when they have committed to a strategy, being consistent in how they are executing on the strategy, presenting it to their teams is so important.

Given the business environment leaders are operating in today and the poly crisis they're facing, I think it's become even more important, this piece around consistency. And what continues to be critically important is how leaders show up in volatile situations.

Leaders who stay calm, are resilient, make the right judgment calls and think through their responses are often much better received than those who make knee-jerk reactions. which means that their teams lose trust, lose faith in the leadership in their business. And things start to go in rapid decline after that.

So Ilana, given that research shows that CEOs and C-suite leaders often underestimate the importance of building trust, what practical first steps would you recommend to a newly appointed CEO or C-suite leader focused on building trust in themselves as a leader?

In today's episode, we're exploring the fundamental role of trust in high-performing leadership teams, from how to measure trust levels and implement behaviours that build credibility, to repairing trust when it's damaged.

The importance of taking the time to really deeply listen to your leadership team when you join an organisation is often understated. And hearing you speak on this point, Ilana, made me think of Carol Tomei's story from my colleague Ty Wiggins' book, The New CEO. Carol Tomei, CEO of UPS, was the first outside CEO in UPS's 113-year history when she joined the firm.

She was incredibly aware of the fear and anxiety that a new CEO can generate and how difficult it would be to build trust. especially when she joined, just as COVID was spreading across continents.

To build trust, she spoke about a time when she held a meeting at her COVID safe home, where the team were encouraged to talk openly about how they were going to work together, the behaviours that would be welcomed and those that would not. She shared in the book, everyone got a chance to talk. I have learned that engaging for impact is really important. I'm super curious.

I ask a lot of questions I don't criticise. Henrik, coming back to you, what other approaches would you recommend new leaders adopt to build trust effectively?

We'll discuss how the most successful leaders leverage trust to accelerate decision-making, to enable productive conflict, and to create the psychological safety needed for genuine innovation. But before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefiners at russellreynolds.com.

I couldn't agree more, Henrik. Many leaders hesitate to admit knowledge gaps. But in fact, those who show honesty build credibility with their leadership team rather than lose it. And they motivate their team because they feel empowered to fill a gap that they know exists if the CEO is facing into it. So it's not about knowing it all. Far from it.

Instead, it's about seeking out the right discovery type conversations across the organization. I think being transparent in your communication with your peers and team is also vital for trust building and something a new leader should consider early in their tenure. It's important you share relevant information.

And of course, that's a big decision making exercise in its own right, because not everything can or should be shared. But the relevant information you can share openly, you explain decisions clearly and you're forthright about challenges. This creates a culture where trust can flourish. Ilana, coming back to you, many leaders assume their teams trust them, often without verification.

How can a leader accurately assess trust levels within their team rather than relying on a gut feeling?

You've identified some clear, tangible markers for teams to look out for, Ilana, which I'm sure will be really helpful for our listeners. And I've been able to identify some of these patterns with the leaders I work with. I do a lot of work advising on non-executive director and chair appointments.

And what I've witnessed is that if just one individual on a board starts working in isolation on any of these processes, when it comes down the line and a group of candidates has been narrowed to a finalist one or two, if all the other board members haven't been included in the debate, kept updated, listened to at the beginning of a process,

there is a real erosion of trust and right towards the end, it can all fall apart. We can assess that there's a real lack of trust when maybe just one individual without allowing for that healthy debate amongst their colleagues is driving through decisions. And then towards the end of a process, things can really fall apart because the trust just doesn't exist.

So Henrik, even the best leaders occasionally experience breakdowns in trust. When that happens, rebuilding it can be challenging, particularly at the senior leadership level. What strategies can leaders use to rebuild trust after it's been damaged?

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. Today's senior executives operate in an environment where trust has never been more critical or more fragile.

And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. First up, we'd like to welcome Henrik Krajowski, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates Toronto office to the lounge. Henrik, welcome back to the Leadership Lounge.

That 1% rule is really interesting and not something I've heard before. And what I like is it creates a properly collaborative atmosphere that we're all in this together. It's about the collective, not about an individual feeling that it's all their fault. And I'd add that timing is critical in trust repair. The longer a breach remains unaddressed, the more difficult restoration becomes.

What I often find gets executives' attention is connecting these trust issues to business impact. When leaders see how trust fractures directly affect decision-making speed, knowledge sharing and innovation, it suddenly becomes a strategic priority rather than just an interpersonal comfort issue. Emi, what strategies do you see leaders use to rebuild trust?

And I think acknowledging these differences and working through them is critical. We found that involving an objective voice can be valuable in these moments to help executives articulate these different trust languages without defensiveness. But even more importantly, leaders need to demonstrate they've learned from this breakdown in trust. So our time in the lounge today has come to an end.

In 30 seconds, this is what we've learned. Trust is built on consistency. You need to demonstrate that you can follow through on your promises and commitments, no matter how small. Trust isn't something that's nice to have in an organisation. It needs to be intentionally built at a foundational level. Transparent communication is vital for trust.

Henrik, trust can often be seen as an abstract concept. What do we mean by trust in the leadership context?

Sharing relevant information openly, explaining decisions clearly, and being forthright about challenges creates a culture where trust can flourish. Trusted leaders give credit, own mistakes, even if minimal, and maintain confidentiality. And to repair trust, acknowledge the breach, own your contribution to building trust, and commit to change.

I think that's really good advice, Stacey. And frankly, it's quite likely that individuals who are not successful in such high stakes processes will leave. But the fact that your client kept somebody for two years is great. And hopefully one part of any candidate in a really high stakes succession process, one part of their responsibility is to think about backfilling for their own role.

So hopefully an organization has that well advanced. And if they do decide to leave, there's not such a big hole to fill. For our final question today, it can be difficult for leaders to balance developing their successes whilst continuing to lead the business and go on their own journey.

How can leaders effectively balance developing potential successes while engaging in their own personal and professional development?

You're absolutely right, Stacey. It's all about mindset. The most effective leaders view developing potential successes as an opportunity, not a burden. It's not a time drain. It's not a distraction from their own growth. Frankly, it allows them to do other things, hopefully better, and it forms their legacy. This is what is there after they've gone, next generation of leaders coming through.

And on this point, I'd like to close the episode with a quote from Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella on the importance of leaders being what he calls institution builders. He said, my dad, a civil servant in India, always used to talk about institution builders as those people whose successes do better than they did themselves. I love that definition.

I feel that if the next CEO of Microsoft can be even more successful than I am, then maybe I've done my job right. If the next year of Microsoft crashes and burns, that may result in a different verdict. This captures for me the essence of effective succession planning perfectly. It's not just about filling positions. It's about building institutions that thrive long after we've moved on.

That's the real test. So our time in the lounge today has come to an end. In 30 seconds, this is what we've learned. Start succession planning early, ideally as soon as you step into a new leadership role. View succession as an ongoing development process, not just a replacement exercise.

Design a leadership blueprint where you clearly define what the criteria of success for that particular role in the future. And lastly, maintain transparency throughout the succession process to keep potential successors engaged and motivated. If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch.

Email your questions to redefineus at russellreynolds.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership. You can also find us on Instagram at Redefiners Podcast. And you can now subscribe to our YouTube channel. Until next time, goodbye.

Yeah, James, that example highlights very clearly the dangers of delayed succession planning. A reasonable sized business that can afford to have really good talent would hope to have a minimum of two, if not three internal options that they'd been developing over a multi-year period. And it sounds like your client didn't have that.

And it really means that they lose tremendous leverage and flexibility there. And our research confirms this is a widespread problem. In our board culture and director behaviour study carried out last year with over 1,000 supervisory board level directors responding, only 29% said they had a three to five year CEO succession plan.

Whilst this data point is concerning, as a firm, the great thing we are seeing is this number trending upwards. More and more boards and nomination committees are investing time and energy into identifying and developing their talent at least three years ahead of a succession event. James, what else do you think leaders should prioritise when beginning the succession planning process?

No decision will have a bigger impact on the performance of your business and its enduring legacy. Yet, many leaders struggle with effective succession planning, despite understanding its importance. In this episode, we're uncovering how forward-thinking leaders approach succession. Why do many succession efforts fail? How can you spot leadership potential beyond the usual suspects?

Those are excellent points, James. And of course, having clearly defined roles in succession planning is key. But for me, it's the alignment piece that is most critical. Reaching a point of alignment on what we might call a future success profile, what you want the next leader to really bring, takes considerable time and effort.

For example, you might ask all of the board directors to fill out a survey to then have an in-depth interview and playing back where there are areas of misalignment across the key constituents. allows everybody to make sure that they're focusing on the same thing moving forward and as that pertains to strategy and then to what the next leader should look like.

Let me now bring Rebecca Slan-Jerusalem into the conversation. She's a leadership advisor in RRA's Toronto office and has guided numerous organisations through the succession planning process. Rebecca, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

Rebecca, our recent research also uncovered that only 44% of board directors feel that their company's CEO succession plan will result in an effective candidate being appointed. We know there's no universal playbook for succession and it's nuanced, but what are some of the common mistakes that leaders make when it comes to succession planning?

For me, Rebecca, that distinction is crucial. And, of course, internal candidates often require a different set of experiences to make them fully credible when a succession is required. So, for example, you could have somebody who's grown up in a finance function who needs to be given responsibility leading a P&L, running a region or a business unit.

Or you might have somebody who's got a certain geographic experience but must have exposure to the largest region before they can be really credible. And one of my clients wasn't forward thinking enough in terms of the internal candidates they'd identified too.

And it was only 18 months ahead of the CEO stepping down that they were given exposure to a new region and actually had to very quickly get their arms around it and not really have enough time to prove themselves. I think the board found it all quite a rush and in hindsight would have loved to think about this even five years in advance.

so that candidates had the right set of experiences and could really be compared on an equal footing when the actual succession took place. So when organisations only think about leadership talent, when there is a gap, as it were, they miss the opportunity to invest in their internal talent.

Coming back to you, James, what other common mistakes do you see leaders make when it comes to succession planning?

What actions can you take today to transform succession planning into a cornerstone of your leadership legacy? But first, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefiners at russellreynolds.com. It would be great to hear from you. And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. Let's dive in.

CEOs certainly need a targeted approach when they're thinking about their colleagues who have the most potential, James. And so I totally agree with you, aligning with the board, with the nominations committee on who those most likely internal successors are, and then really making sure they're tested by giving them new opportunities. Maybe it's group-wide projects if they're in a CFO role.

Maybe it's mentoring and developing other leaders in the organisation to test their followership. These kind of activities are so important to make sure that people can really get ahead and, as I said, be ready for the moment when the succession process takes place. I'd now like to turn back to you, Rebecca.

When identifying future leaders, we often gravitate towards candidates who are highly visible or remind us of ourselves. It's human nature, but this can, of course, create blind spots and missed opportunities. And Rebecca, it'd be great to hear from you on how CEOs and CHROs can develop more sophisticated talent spotting skills.

How can they uncover leadership potential in unexpected places across an organization?

You're absolutely right, Rebecca. And often looking for these qualities can lead to surprising discoveries. In our methodology, we come up with quantitative data individuals fill out a suite of questionnaires that builds their leadership profile, how others experience them as a leader. And then we also have a cognitive test that develops an output on how strategic an individual is.

That's combined with an in-depth interview with a search advisor and with a psychologist. The output of this is that we really do get to spot where talent lies in an organization. And recently, I was working with a client where one individual had waited for a long time for her boss to retire. And the organization had really overlooked her potential.

And for us, she was just the shining star buried away with talent. such big potential. It was incredibly exciting to spot this talent, to talk to the client about why it made sense to really invest in her as somebody for the future, and to have enough data to underpin this as well.

I'd now like to introduce our final voice into the conversation, Stacey Shapiro, Leadership Advisor in our Atlanta office. Stacey, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. Thanks, Emma. It's great to be here. So Stacey, succession plans are typically developed during stable periods, but executed during times of significant disruption or transition.

How do leaders ensure that their succession frameworks remain relevant and effective, even when business conditions shift dramatically?

To help us explore this critical topic, I'm joined today in the lounge by James Diggins, a leadership advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates Singapore office, who specializes in executive succession. James, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

I think, Stacey, you've made some great points and organisations that are in a position to support internal succession planning, in my mind, have massively de-risked the situation. It's so hard with all the referencing in the world to make sure that an external candidate is going to land well. And so having internal options is, without doubt, a huge advantage.

In my experience, though, what I find is that if a business has gone through a series of profit warnings, if it's been negatively impacted, even by factors outside of its control, it can be very hard for a business to allow for CEO succession with an internal candidate. Quite often, investors aboard actually want to see a fresh face, somebody from the outside,

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. As a leader, identifying and developing the next generation of leadership talent isn't just important, it's critical.

even if in the medium term, it could have been better to support and back an internal candidate. So I think it's a really interesting thing for us to reflect on as leadership advisors. And sometimes maybe there's an argument to push harder to support internal candidates because they are a known entity and they understand where an organization needs to get to.

A recent report by the Society for Human Resources Management found that organizations with a strong succession planning process in place have a 95% higher shareholder return compared to those without a succession plan. Rebecca, what other benefits have you observed?

So James, C-suite tenures are decreasing across industries. Our research found that CFO tenure is at a six-year low, while CHRO tenure was just 4.4 years in 2024. With leadership transitions happening more frequently, succession planning is happening with a new sense of urgency. What first concrete steps should leaders take to build an effective leadership succession process?

That's a really powerful example, Rebecca. And I imagine it took a huge amount of work for your client to get comfortable with appointing somebody who was less known and had a very different style, but clearly is having such a positive impact on the organisation. This shows succession decisions are among the most powerful cultural levers available to leadership.

And they signal what behaviours are truly valued, not what's just written in a mission statement. So, Stacey, not every succession candidate can be selected for a bigger role.

And one of the big questions that we're often asked by our clients is how they can retain the talent that has been unsuccessful, particularly as clearly this talent has been identified as high potential, and yet they've had to be let down on their ambition to be considered for a new role higher up in the organisation. What advice do you have for our clients in this situation?

If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch. Email your questions to redefiners at russellreynolds.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership.

You can also find us on Instagram at Redefiners Podcast. And you can also now subscribe to our YouTube channel. Until next time, goodbye.

I think often leaders give feedback focused on the personality trait instead of the specific action because it is less direct. It's easier to deliver. But of course, something focused on a broad personality trait is not specific and it's very hard as an individual to know how to respond to it.

And it just shows the importance of immediate feedback in the moment when somebody can really understand what they could do differently and why. Actually, it is kinder to give more direct feedback that isn't vague or too subtle, but it's in the moment, it's actionable, it's constructive, and it's helpful.

We now like to welcome David Lang, Leadership Advisor from Russell Reynolds Associates Chicago office into the conversation. David, welcome back to the Leadership Lounge.

David, giving feedback isn't easy and it's not always well-received. What would your advice be if the person you're giving feedback to disagrees with you?

As we approach the end of the year, no doubt many of you, like me, are getting lots of inbound requests for feedbacks and contributions to year end appraisals. You're likely reflecting on your team's performance and how you can give feedback that will help your leaders develop and improve. These types of conversations aren't easy to navigate.

I think your emphasis on a two-way dialogue here, David, is key. And you see it in children's sports teams, for example, when they're having the talk at halftime, it's very much inviting everybody into the discussion. What do you think we could have done better?

And the coach is immediately getting that engagement from the whole team because everybody's alert that they might be put on the spot about what they think could be done better and what has gone well. And to be honest, it's not that different as adults in the workplace. It transforms feedback from something judgmental into a genuine conversation about grace and understanding.

And David, while leaders are more familiar giving feedback to their teams, it can be harder to provide feedback upwards. What's the best way to structure feedback conversations with those who are more senior?

I love how you've highlighted the psychological safety piece there, David. We've spoken before on this podcast about just how important it is for leaders to feel secure enough to speak up. And a leader who has encouraged their employees to speak up and has created a safe space for them to do so is General Motors CEO Mary Barra.

When she was appointed 10 years ago, she created a Speak Up for Safety program targeted specifically to encourage upward feedback from employees and leaders alike about safety concerns at the firm. And conversely, when this kind of culture doesn't exist, we so often see it leading to massive value destruction.

For example, shock profit warnings because news hasn't traveled, proper feedback hasn't been able to go up through an organization. So the cost of getting this wrong is massive. I'd now like to pivot the conversation a little. In this episode so far, the focus has been on how you can become more effective at giving feedback, whether that's to those reporting to you or upwards.

But I'd like to flip it and delve a little deeper into how you can become better at receiving feedback to enhance your own development. In his book, The New CEO, authored by my RRA colleague, Ty Wiggins, PepsiCo CEO, Ramon Laguata, shared that when you're the CEO, people carefully position everything they tell you. David, can you speak on this a little more?

So what skills are important to hone when giving feedback? And what are some of the common pitfalls you may encounter while having these conversations? But it's not just about giving feedback. You also need to make sure you as a leader are getting the feedback you need to develop. How do you encourage honest, upward feedback? And what are the benefits when you act on this?

You're absolutely right, David. It's incredibly difficult to hear the truth as a CEO, but it makes a huge difference, in my opinion, if a CEO is actually physically present. So if it's a multi-site business going out to the different locations, connecting with people on the ground.

We've recently advised on a CEO succession for a business in major turnaround, and the predecessor had worked remotely remotely. really as a hangover from COVID, but for many years, and some people didn't even know if they were real.

The new CEO has already been to almost 50 different locations, has connected in a very direct, approachable way with people at all different levels of the organization. And the amount of feedback that they've got in such a short space of time, they've been enrolled for just a matter of weeks is really remarkable.

So to get unfiltered feedback, particularly as the CEO, is something you need to actively seek out and be really intentional about. Dee, how else can leaders encourage honest, upward feedback?

Yeah, I think you raise an excellent point here, Dee, and having multiple channels is really important. But having a feedback rich culture should be the norm. Lots of people say that the best practice is that nothing comes as a surprise at an end of year review. So it should be part of a weekly or even daily routine. That being said, feedback shouldn't become so overplayed that it's gamified.

And some organizations do talk about that happening now. So it's finding and striking the right balance. I'd now like to welcome our final voice into the conversation, Silvia Largo, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates' Barcelona office. Silvia, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

Before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefineus at russellreynolds.com. We look forward to hearing from you. And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. So let's dive into the topic.

Silvia, we spoke earlier about how leaders could give feedback effectively. What about how they can receive feedback constructively?

I think that's incredibly relatable. We've all likely had at least one moment in our careers when we've been given feedback and immediately we prepare a response instead of truly absorbing what's being said. And I also think for the next generation growing up in a culture of seeking such frequent affirmation through social media and likes and the way that we now live,

nurturing a feedback culture, actually creating the resilience to receive that feedback is not going to be altogether straightforward and something that we as managers, as leaders for that next generation need to really think about. I'll fully admit, I'm pretty sensitive when it comes to developmental feedback.

So I have to be really aware that as I enter these conversations, other people will be a lot more comfortable being direct than I am. And being able to receive that feedback is really important. It's Much easier as part of a team project than something personal. I think that's when it becomes more difficult. And often we are working in teams.

So developing that team dynamic, nurturing it is really important. Sylvia, ensuring you receive well-rounded feedback from a diverse group of people is key. How can leaders go about obtaining this feedback?

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. Today, we're talking about how you can master the art of giving and receiving regular, effective feedback.

First up, we'd like to welcome Dee Fitzgerald, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associate Sydney office into the conversation. Dee, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. Hello, Emma. Delighted to be here. Thanks for inviting me. So Dee, it's important that leaders enter into feedback conversations prepared. How can leaders frame their feedback to ensure it's delivered effectively?

Thank you, Sylvia. And actually that start and stop and do more of discipline is really helpful across so many different parts of a career. But regular team debriefs are critical. It speaks to the importance of immediacy, not waiting until year-end refuse when feedback can get diluted. In a lot of my team projects, we're looking at how we can set projects up for success.

I ask our colleagues to think about what they want to get from this project from a developmental point of view. So for example, what areas has somebody perhaps struggled on or fell down on in previous projects? How can we ensure this doesn't happen in this project?

And because you've had that conversation about what a leader wants to work on upfront, it becomes much easier to give and receive feedback. I read a quote recently from Patti McCord, the former chief talent officer at Netflix for over a decade, And she shared that when it came to reviews and feedback, simplicity is key.

She said, when we stopped doing formal performance reviews, we instituted informal 360 degree reviews. We kept them pretty simple. People were asked to identify things that their colleagues should stop, start or continue. I think that's really a neat way of structuring feedback conversations. Dee, I'd like to turn back to you now.

We've seen in our research that when a leader demonstrates willingness to take on feedback, it has a measurable impact on inclusion and increased feelings of belonging by employees. What are the other benefits when leaders choose to act on employee feedback?

I think that's so critical, Dee. When leaders feel heard, they're much more likely to be creative and be unafraid to think outside of the box. I also think when feedback is acted on, you're much more likely to feel engaged with the organization and express loyalty. Feedback ultimately is a gift.

You might not always like the gift, but it's an invaluable opportunity to see ourselves as others do and unlock our full potential as leaders and colleagues. And in today's world where inclusion is more important than ever before, getting feedback from a wide range of individuals with views different to your own allows you to become a truly inclusive leader.

Embrace feedback, both giving and receiving with an open mind and a commitment to growth and watch how it can transform your organization. So our time in the lounge today has come to an end. I'd like to thank all our guests for sharing such invaluable insights. In 30 seconds, this is what we learned. Effective feedback focuses on specific behaviors, not personality.

Frame feedback constructively to enable growth and development, avoiding subjective or contradictory comments. Creating a culture of psychological safety is essential for encouraging honest upward feedback, which requires leaders to actively solicit input at all levels.

Actively listening to feedback, asking clarifying questions and approaching it as a collaborative dialogue rather than defensively are critical skills for receiving feedback productively. and integrating feedback into regular interactions rather than relying on annual reviews and seeking diverse perspectives through mentors or team debriefs helps leaders continuously grow and innovate.

You can also find us on Instagram at Redefiners Podcast, and you can now subscribe to our YouTube channel. Until next time, goodbye.

I think that's a great point, Justice, about family enterprise. It's key to strike the right balance between protecting the family's values, what makes it a really special way to work and somewhere that has been delivering value over many, many years, whilst also having permission to evolve, to transform, to not have to stick to a set of rules that it's always been done in a certain way.

It's fascinating to advise on these kind of topics and how the right balance can be struck. I'd now like to introduce our second guest into the lounge, Anu Paranik. She's a leadership advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates Singapore office and advises family enterprises throughout Asia. Anu, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

Annie, Justice just highlighted the importance of engaging the next generation to ensure family enterprises continue to thrive and evolve. But this isn't always easy and can cause tension to bubble to the surface of family enterprises. Can you talk a bit about this tension and why it arises?

But their leaders face an increasingly critical challenge, how to preserve their organization's legacies in a fast-changing world. So in today's episode, I'm excited that we're exploring how family enterprise leaders can successfully balance preservation and progress. How can leaders maintain what made their organization successful while adapting to a new business landscape?

I completely agree, Annie. A family enterprise isn't just a company, but a family legacy that often spans generation. When the market demands change, the thought of transforming what's been carefully crafted over decades can sometimes feel incredibly hard for family leaders. But change they must.

Keeping pace with transformation can be the difference between whether a family enterprise can endure across generations or not. Interestingly, our research has found that just 43% of family enterprise leaders globally say their organization is ahead of their competitors on innovation.

And only a further 43% say their leadership team feels prepared to address the threat of technological change at their family enterprise in the coming year. So Annie, what advice would you give to family enterprise leaders who are struggling with transformation?

So the key is finding that distinction between what is needed to transform. When leaders can separate strategic business changes from the fundamental identity of the family enterprise, it often removes a lot of the emotional barriers to progress.

For family enterprises struggling with transformation, in my experience, having an independent chair or independent non-executive directors can really make the world of difference. particularly if there's a non-family member as CEO. It means that a CEO isn't so isolated.

There's a conduit, a sounding board, a trusted independent advisor between them and the family members, and it can be a very effective construct. Justice, I'd like to turn back to you. Aside from innovation and transformation, what are the other critical leadership challenges that family enterprise leaders will need to confront to thrive across generations?

And what are the top issues that leaders will need to think about if they are to continue to thrive across generations? Before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefiners at russellreynolds.com. We look forward to hearing from you and we'd love your feedback on these episodes.

It's a critical part, Justice, of the service that we offer to clients. And it's understanding how to run a really thoughtful process where everybody feels considered, developed, listened to, that things can go smoothly. And when it comes to family enterprises, we know that each of them operates in a very unique way with unique relationships.

Independent advisors such as my brilliant colleagues can help these relationships and family harmony across generations while ensuring that businesses continue to thrive. I'd now like to introduce another guest into the Leadership Lounge to talk on this topic. Diego Esteban is a leadership advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates' Barcelona office. Diego, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

So Diego, just as mentioned that succession is one of the most critical leadership challenges that family enterprises need to confront. And our research supports this as we found that 32% admitted their approach to succession was reactive rather than proactive. Can you talk through any other challenges that family enterprises will need to confront to continue to thrive?

I think you're right there, Diego. It's critical for family enterprises to create personalised development paths. After all, leading a family enterprise is more than preserving what you've built. It's about continuously looking forward and planning for the future and being able to bring the outside in.

So having those external experiences, having mentors from other industries or on the board is so critical in my mind. It's about being comfortable having brave conversations with family members about their own development and how you can best set them up for success. We know that when family enterprises fail to develop their most talented leaders, they risk letting them walk out of the door.

Our research, in fact, found that 71% of leaders in family enterprises said they're likely to consider moving organizations, with 36% citing career advancement as their primary motivation. We'd now like to welcome our final guest into the lounge, Peter Gramkoff. Peter is a leadership advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates' Copenhagen office. Peter, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

If you enjoy listening, please leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. So let's dive into the topic. Our first guest in the Leadership Lounge today is Justice O'Brien, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates' Stanford office and global leader of RRA's Family Enterprise Advisory Practice. Justice, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. It's great to have you back.

Peter, what skills and mindsets will the next generation of family enterprise leaders need?

I think getting to the heart of what makes a family tick is indeed critical, Peter. In every family, there will naturally be a complex web of relationships, traditions and emotional connections to get to grips with. And larger family enterprises will have different setups in terms of boards of trustees, family boards, different delegated sets of responsibilities.

And understanding the interplay between these is also really important. Annie, I know you wanted to talk about another skill, the importance of being an active listener in a family enterprise.

And this point, Annie, ties really nicely to Diego's point about the importance of thoughtful career planning and development.

Educating family members on what's happened in the past, where the business is now and where it wants to go in the future from much earlier on in their career, setting up appropriate forums to do that does allow new family members who are onboarding to really understand the legacy as well as what they're tackling in the here and now.

I think what you have all stressed here with these skills and mindsets is that it's a careful balancing act. Successful family leaders will know when to be bold and challenge the status quo and when to stand back and listen. I also think it's critical that a leader can be adaptive and can pivot, especially given how volatile the business landscape is today.

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. Today, we're talking about family enterprise leadership. These businesses are the backbone of economies around the world,

This will help your family enterprise remain competitive and resilient. This has already been a really insightful session, but before I let you go, I'd like to close this episode with your thoughts on what the future holds for family enterprise leadership, either globally or in the regions each of you advise in. Justice, over to you first.

So Justice, how do successful family enterprises maintain their core values while adapting to market changes?

Thank you so much to each of you for sharing your perspectives today. I hope it's given our listeners an insight into life as a family enterprise leader and the obstacles they may face. In 30 seconds, this is what we've learned. First, successful family enterprises thrive by focusing on enduring values over fixed rules or managing the status quo.

Creating a foundation that allows both stability and evolution across generations is the way forward. Having a clear distinction between business transformation and core family values enables leaders to drive necessary change while preserving meaningful legacy. Proactive succession planning is critical.

The most successful family enterprises develop their next generation of leaders systematically and early, including their family members, not in response to crisis. Exceptional family enterprise leaders combine strong business acumen with emotional intelligence, active listening and the confidence to challenge constructively. If you work for a family enterprise, we'd love to hear your thoughts.

And likewise, if you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch. Email your questions to redefiners at russellreynolds.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership.

And Jenna, it's really interesting. Somebody actually said to me only today that 60% of who you are is what people say about you when you're not in the room. 20% is what you do. 20% is what you say about yourself. But 60% is exactly what you're saying when you're not in the room. And that can obviously be in the virtual world as much as in the real world.

To talk further on this point and to uncover some of the benefits when a leader takes control of their leadership brand, we'd like to introduce Shun Lim, Leadership Advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates Singapore office into the conversation. Shun, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. Thanks Emma, really glad that I could make it and I'm really glad to be here.

So Shun, why do you think it's important for leaders to develop their personal brand and what are some of the benefits when they get it right?

I think that's a great point, Shun, and demonstrates the importance of knowing your purpose and effectively communicating it. So when we think of a strong personal leadership brand, it's like a well-crafted story. It has depth and resonates with the audience. But Shun, what exactly goes into creating this narrative? What are the key elements that make up a strong personal leadership brand?

It's never been more important to get your personal brand right as a leader, but it isn't easy to concisely articulate what you want to be known for and what your unique value proposition is. So what is a personal leadership brand and how do you begin crafting it? How can you activate your leadership brand in the market?

That's exactly right, Shun. And you can see these traits in many successful leaders today. Knowing your values in particular is key to not only starting to develop and hone your personal brand, but also to your long-term success. And Shuna, our research found 95% of leaders said having a clear sense of their personal values was important in preparing them for their current leadership roles.

When I think about a leader who really has, to your points, clarity, congruence and consistency, Richard Harpin comes to mind, who is the founder and chairman of HomeServe, an international home repairs and improvement business that he founded from nothing, a £10,000 investment into a £4.1 billion revenue business in 2023.

I feel Richard has developed an incredibly clear narrative across multiple platforms. He writes a column in the Sunday Times business section. He's a very active voice on LinkedIn, and he's the author of a book.

And all of his communication, whether on LinkedIn, in his articles, or through other means, is really consistent about his desire to support growth, to support entrepreneurs, and to share the lessons that he's learned. I'd now like to welcome Amy Sissons into the conversation. Amy is Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at Russell Reynolds Associates and Executive Producer of Redefiners.

She's based in our New York office. Amy, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. We're really excited for you to share your insights on this topic. Thank you. It's great to be here. Amy, we've spoken about how important it is for leaders to spend time defining their personal leadership brand. But when it comes to activating their brand in the market, what's your advice for leaders?

Wow, Amy, that's some quite bold things that you've raised there. Absolutely fascinating. And if you feel that content writing isn't your strong suit and your time strapped, I can see that some of these tools, if used correctly, could be really helpful. And actually, this podcast has really helped me to think about different topics and how and where to share my perspectives.

But I'm also conscious that it's a journey. There's more I could be doing. I'm sure I could bring more of a personal angle into it, but it It takes time and obviously you don't want to distract from the professional persona that's central to what you're typically doing on platforms like LinkedIn.

And what are some of the common mistakes leaders make when cultivating their personal leadership brand? Before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefiners at russellreynolds.com. We'd love to hear from you. And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. So let's dive into the topic.

Amy, on the point of activating your brand in the market, how much of what you share should be personal from your point of view?

I think that's such an interesting way of framing it, Amy, for leaders who might be unsure of what to share besides who they are in their role or their function. It helps you to rethink beyond your corporate persona, but make sure that it's all tied into some consistency around your values and your purpose.

When I think about issues that align with my values, I've led charity partnerships with the Princess Trust at Russell Reynolds Associates and with a local secondary school, the Chelsea Academy. This has been able to really neatly leverage our skills around leadership advisors, developing careers. So doing things like mock interview practice, CV writing workshops is tied in really neatly.

And it's not something that I've shared, to be honest. I think it's incredibly British to kind of hide these things under a bushel. But actually, I will now reflect on whether that could be helpful to share a bit more about who I am, what I believe in, and also to represent Russell Rengels Associates in an effective way in the market.

I think Nike is an organization that's great at not talking about their products, but actually the purpose behind it. It's really quite sophisticated. They tend to focus on the power of sport and how sport can enhance people's lives. And whilst they don't ever specifically talk about products, The brand resonance in the market, as we all know, is incredibly powerful.

We'd now like to introduce another voice into the conversation, Rafa Martinez-Gallardo, Leadership Advisor at Russell Reynolds Associates' Mexico office. Rafa, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

So, Rafa, we know that it can be easy to misstep when creating and communicating your personal leadership brand. Can you talk us through some of the pitfalls that you see?

Absolutely, Rafa. And on this podcast, we've also previously had some really interesting discussions about when leaders should and should not weigh in on social issues. It's about finding the right balance, having a point of view on a topic, but also being sensitive to the fact that some perspectives can be incredibly polarizing. Amy, I might bring you back in at this point.

What's another common mistake you see leaders make?

First up, we'd like to welcome Jenna Fisher, Leadership Advisor at Russell Reynolds Associates Palo Alto office and author of the book, To the Top, How Women in Corporate Leadership are Rewriting the Rules for Success. Jenna, welcome to the Leadership Lounge. Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Jenna.

Amy, that's definitely something I could be doing more of. By not engaging with other leaders on LinkedIn and other platforms, as you say, you're not necessarily capitalising on opportunities to expand your network, to be involved in important industry discussions and to identify critical thought leadership that you could share with your followers.

By breaking out of your echo chamber, you can foster a more dynamic and influential presence. But of course, time ends up being a very precious resource and balancing it is not always so easy. So we've covered some of the common mistakes that leaders make. We'd now like to turn our attention to aspiring leaders.

Jenna, what advice would you give to emerging leaders who are starting to build their personal brand?

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, Leadership Advisor in our London office. Today, we're talking about how to develop your personal leadership brand.

We know that a strong personal leadership brand can be a powerful differentiator, but leaders aren't spending enough time crafting their brand. We found that 74% of CEOs said that they spend too little time on themselves. And no doubt this statistic applies to a broader cohort of leaders. How would you define a personal leadership brand?

I think that's great advice for our listeners, Rafa. What's key to remember is that crafting your brand requires consistent self-reflection and for you to invest time to align your content with your core values. And of course, this might shift and evolve over time in a really healthy way.

In today's digital age where your online presence is under constant scrutiny, a well-cultivated leadership brand can be an extremely powerful asset. So our time in the lounge today has come to an end. I'd like to thank all of our guests for sharing such invaluable insights. In 30 seconds, this is what we've learned. Your leadership brand exists, whether you shape it or not.

Take control of your narrative by clearly defining your values, passions, and the legacy you wish to leave behind. Authenticity is key to a powerful leadership brand. Align your public persona with your true self to build trust and credibility. Don't try to imitate anyone else. Don't just broadcast, interact. Your brand thrives on meaningful engagement with your community.

Curate, create and contribute to discussions to establish a dynamic presence. Your brand is a journey, not a destination. Continuously refine it through self-reflection, feedback and intentional content creation. Remember, depth and consistency over time yield a robust presence.

If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then get in touch. Email your questions to redefiners at russellreynolds.com. And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, leave us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. You can find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X at RRA on Leadership.

You can also find us on Instagram at Redefiners Podcast. And you can now subscribe to our YouTube channel. Until next time, goodbye.