Up First from NPR
Negotiating Trump's Sweeping Agenda, South Africa's President, DOGE Cuts
Wed, 21 May 2025
The latest on the president's massive tax and immigration bill as it faces continued resistance from both moderate and hardline Republicans. South African President Cyril Ramaphosa will travel to Washington next week as relations between the U.S. and South Africa are at their lowest since the end of apartheid. An NPR analysis finds that the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink.Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Ryland Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neill, Ally Schweitzer and Alice Woelfle. It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Neisha Heinis and our technical director is David Greenburg.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What is President Trump's proposal for tax and spending changes?
President Trump warns House Republicans to accept a proposal for tax and spending changes along with a lot of borrowing.
He predicts any Republican who resists would be knocked out, so why are some saying no?
I'm Steve Inskeep with Leila Fadal, and this is Up First from NPR News. South Africa's president is coming to Washington. He'll be meeting with President Trump, whose administration has accused South Africa of discriminating against its own white citizens. How does all this look from Johannesburg?
And Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency is trying to expand its reach. Musk has taken a step back, but an NPR analysis found the unit has sought recently to intervene in dozens more entities, even some outside government. Is that legal? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day.
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Chapter 2: Why are some Republicans resisting Trump's tax bill?
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President Trump met with House Republicans in the Capitol yesterday, urging them to get behind his massive tax and immigration bill or risk a tax increase.
I mean, what Republican could vote for that to happen? Because there wouldn't be a Republican much longer. They would be knocked out so fast.
House Speaker Mike Johnson wants a vote as soon as today, but as always, he needs almost every Republican on his side in order to pass it.
NPR's Deirdre Walsh is at the Capitol and she joins me now. Good morning, Deirdre. Good morning, Laila. So did Trump's pep rally with House Republicans build the support he needs for that bill?
He did sway some who praised his sales job, but the president failed to convince a significant block of Republican holdouts. There are moderates who represent districts with high state and local taxes who want a bigger tax break for their constituents. There are conservatives worried about ballooning deficits and say this bill does not go far enough to slash spending and deal with the deficit.
The Speaker spent the day and overnight hours trying to negotiate with these factions. And remember, he can only lose three votes, so we already know one member, Tom Massey of Kentucky, is a hard no.
Okay, so did leaders agree to any of these demands to move some of these holdouts?
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of South Africa's President visiting the US?
Chapter 4: How is the Department of Government Efficiency expanding its reach?
Look, we get it. When it comes to new music, there is a lot of it, and it all comes really fast. But on All Songs Considered, NPR's music recommendation podcast, we'll handpick what we think is the greatest music happening right now and give you your next great listen. So kick back, settle in, get those eardrums wide open, and get your dose of new music from All Songs Considered, only from NPR.
President Trump met with House Republicans in the Capitol yesterday, urging them to get behind his massive tax and immigration bill or risk a tax increase.
I mean, what Republican could vote for that to happen? Because there wouldn't be a Republican much longer. They would be knocked out so fast.
House Speaker Mike Johnson wants a vote as soon as today, but as always, he needs almost every Republican on his side in order to pass it.
NPR's Deirdre Walsh is at the Capitol and she joins me now. Good morning, Deirdre. Good morning, Laila. So did Trump's pep rally with House Republicans build the support he needs for that bill?
He did sway some who praised his sales job, but the president failed to convince a significant block of Republican holdouts. There are moderates who represent districts with high state and local taxes who want a bigger tax break for their constituents. There are conservatives worried about ballooning deficits and say this bill does not go far enough to slash spending and deal with the deficit.
The Speaker spent the day and overnight hours trying to negotiate with these factions. And remember, he can only lose three votes, so we already know one member, Tom Massey of Kentucky, is a hard no.
Okay, so did leaders agree to any of these demands to move some of these holdouts?
Potentially, overnight a key committee met to set the parameters to start debate on the House floor, and that panel is still meeting. The Speaker said when they started around 1 a.m. they were close to a deal, but we haven't seen any details yet. Leaders are expected to increase the amount of that state and local tax deduction. to address the concerns of some moderates they need.
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Chapter 5: What are the major components of Trump's tax and immigration bill?
And the Treasury Department is going to run out of money to pay its bills this summer. So lawmakers included a $4 trillion increase in the debt ceiling to avoid a default. But for right now, House Republican leaders are still negotiating to try to get the votes to get it through the House. That's NPR's Deirdre Walsh. Thank you, Deirdre. Thanks, Layla.
South African President Cyril Ramaphosa is set to meet President Trump today at the White House for talks amid deteriorating relations between the two countries.
Chapter 6: How will proposed changes to Medicaid affect Americans?
Yeah, this is interesting. Earlier this year, the Trump administration cut aid to South Africa and expelled the South African ambassador. In recent days, the U.S. took another step. The president, who has been pushing away refugees from other parts of the world, granted refugee status to white South Africans. Now the government of the black majority country says it wants a reset.
With me now is reporter Kate Bartlett, who's in Johannesburg. Good morning, Kate. Good morning. Okay, so get us up to speed. What brought this meeting about?
Basically, for months, Trump has been saying terrible things have been happening in South Africa. He's been repeating right-wing conspiracy theories, claiming without evidence that white Afrikaner farmers are being persecuted and their land confiscated. The South African government, the data, and most experts say there's no evidence of that.
And Ramaphosa hasn't hidden his frustration over Trump's actions. Here he is last week.
We're the only country on the continent where the colonizers came to stay. And we have never driven them out of our country.
The South African government says the people taking up Trump's refugee offer are simply people who still can't accept apartheid is over. So Ramaphosa faces an uphill battle. And Trump will likely berate South Africa for taking Israel to the Hague over claims of a genocide in its war in Gaza.
So how will Ramaphosa approach the meeting?
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Chapter 7: What is the current state of US-South Africa relations?
Well, Ramaphosa is a skilled negotiator. He worked alongside Nelson Mandela and was instrumental in the talks that ended apartheid. Now he needs to salvage the U.S. relationship, which is of huge economic importance to South Africa. He might try to appeal to Trump's transactional side. South Africa is rich in minerals like platinum. And Ramaphosa is expected to appeal to the U.S.
's interests in countering China's influence in Africa as well. And he could offer a deal to Trump's South African-born advisor, Elon Musk. The billionaire businessman objects to affirmative action laws that he claims prevent him from rolling out his Starlink satellite service in South Africa.
And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?
Well, South Africans are watching anxiously to see if Ramaphosa is humiliated the way Ukrainian President Zelensky was on his visit to the Oval Office earlier this year. And many South Africans, both white and black, are really angry with Trump's attacks on their country. I spoke to people at a Johannesburg cafe, including 42-year-old barista Sia Rallo.
We all know the genocide narrative is false. They should tell them to stay away from our affairs. But not in those words, you know, in a nicer way.
Ramaphosa might also want to bring up the one South African Trump does seem to admire, Nelson Mandela. He's repeatedly compared himself and his legal problems to Mandela's 27 years in jail for the struggle against apartheid. That comparison drew anger from Mandela's family.
That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate. Thank you.
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Chapter 8: What conspiracy theories about South Africa are being discussed?
Elon Musk may not be spending quite so much time at the White House.
But his creation, the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink. A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups
that Doge has tried to cut in recent weeks. NPR's Stephen Fowler is covering all of this and is on the line. Hi there, Stephen. Good morning. So who's getting a knock on the door here?
Well, the knock is often an email from one of a few Doge staffers based in the General Services Administration. They're seeking to learn more about operations and to embed a team within the organization. Now, some of them have already been effectively dismantled by Doge, like the Millennium Challenge Corporation.
Some of them have been targeted for elimination by the president in his proposal for next year's budget, like AmeriCorps. The outreach has been to this constellation of commissions, boards, and entities that are all small and independent. Well, how have some of these dozens of entities responded? After the email, in many of these places, Doge has moved quickly.
At the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, for example, in less than one week, an email led to a video call, led to an in-person meeting, and now a Doge team is being onboarded. On April 17th alone, Doge staffers scheduled meetings with officials from the Truman Scholarship Foundation, the Denali Commission, the Office of Navajo and Hopi Indian Relocation, and the U.S.
Access Board, and that's according to two sources not authorized to speak about Doge's operations.
I guess we should mention different laws apply to different organizations, which themselves are organized differently. Could they just say no thanks to Doge's requests?
Some of them already have because these Doge folks have also tried to reach out to organizations that aren't government agencies at all, like the private nonprofit Vera Institute of Justice, the independent nonprofit Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and the Government Accountability Office, which is part of the legislative branch.
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