Andrew Restuccia

One of the things that Trump talks a lot about and his close allies talk a lot about is they want to do things slightly differently than they did the first time. In the first term, they felt that they had too many people that were rowing in a different direction than them and that opposed fundamentally some of the things they were trying to do.

One of the things that Trump talks a lot about and his close allies talk a lot about is they want to do things slightly differently than they did the first time. In the first term, they felt that they had too many people that were rowing in a different direction than them and that opposed fundamentally some of the things they were trying to do.

This time, though, the thing that they've really stressed is that, like, yes, there will be disagreement on the specifics, but you have to sort of... be in line with Trump ideologically in order to serve in his administration. And we'll see if that is actually the case, if there are people who harbor some concerns about some of his policies behind the scenes.

This time, though, the thing that they've really stressed is that, like, yes, there will be disagreement on the specifics, but you have to sort of... be in line with Trump ideologically in order to serve in his administration. And we'll see if that is actually the case, if there are people who harbor some concerns about some of his policies behind the scenes.

The Treasury Secretary, if Besson is confirmed, will be at the center of the entire economic agenda for the president-elect. He has made the economy kind of the centerpiece of his political campaign, and the Treasury Secretary will be at the center of all that. And whether he succeeds or fails will, of course, be at the feet of the president, but will also really be at the feet of Scott Besson.

The Treasury Secretary, if Besson is confirmed, will be at the center of the entire economic agenda for the president-elect. He has made the economy kind of the centerpiece of his political campaign, and the Treasury Secretary will be at the center of all that. And whether he succeeds or fails will, of course, be at the feet of the president, but will also really be at the feet of Scott Besson.

But they really want people sort of all on the same page.

But they really want people sort of all on the same page.

Good question. So the Treasury Secretary does a lot of things. So they are essentially the core economic policymaking engine of the federal government. They are in charge of lots of wonky things. They implement tax policy. They manage the nation's debt. They lead financial regulations. They oversee sanctions. And they conduct economic diplomacy abroad. So it's a huge mandate.

Good question. So the Treasury Secretary does a lot of things. So they are essentially the core economic policymaking engine of the federal government. They are in charge of lots of wonky things. They implement tax policy. They manage the nation's debt. They lead financial regulations. They oversee sanctions. And they conduct economic diplomacy abroad. So it's a huge mandate.

It's a massive department. And it's a really crucial job.

It's a massive department. And it's a really crucial job.

He sort of spent his entire career in this sort of investing world. And for someone like Donald Trump, a businessman who thinks in terms of dollars and cents, that's really important. He really likes people who have experience on Wall Street and people who have, in his view, been successful on Wall Street. He sees that as a really important asset, particularly at the Treasury Secretary role.

He sort of spent his entire career in this sort of investing world. And for someone like Donald Trump, a businessman who thinks in terms of dollars and cents, that's really important. He really likes people who have experience on Wall Street and people who have, in his view, been successful on Wall Street. He sees that as a really important asset, particularly at the Treasury Secretary role.

Remember, in his first term, Stephen Mnuchin, who was a Wall Street guy, was his... first term treasury secretary and maintained a relatively good relationship with Trump throughout his term.

Remember, in his first term, Stephen Mnuchin, who was a Wall Street guy, was his... first term treasury secretary and maintained a relatively good relationship with Trump throughout his term.

It is. Yeah. I mean, you saw a lot of people come and go during the first term. Some lasted, you know, only weeks or months. And for someone to stick around for four years is really notable.

It is. Yeah. I mean, you saw a lot of people come and go during the first term. Some lasted, you know, only weeks or months. And for someone to stick around for four years is really notable.

They know each other well now, but it's a relatively recent relationship. Besson has known the Trump family in a sort of acquaintance type way for decades, but he really started getting to know Trump about a year ago. Trump was impressed with Besson's unequivocal support at a time when a lot of people on Wall Street were backing people like Nikki Haley or just staying out of it altogether.

They know each other well now, but it's a relatively recent relationship. Besson has known the Trump family in a sort of acquaintance type way for decades, but he really started getting to know Trump about a year ago. Trump was impressed with Besson's unequivocal support at a time when a lot of people on Wall Street were backing people like Nikki Haley or just staying out of it altogether.

So he really caught Trump's eye there. when he was on TV praising him up and down?

So he really caught Trump's eye there. when he was on TV praising him up and down?

And then they met at Mar-a-Lago and he traveled with him to some campaign events. He at one point was brought up on stage by Trump where he praised him and called him one of the smartest people on Wall Street.

And then they met at Mar-a-Lago and he traveled with him to some campaign events. He at one point was brought up on stage by Trump where he praised him and called him one of the smartest people on Wall Street.

So two things we were told after he made the decision. One and the most important thing is they had a personal rapport and Trump came to trust him. And he trusted that he would be the best position people of all these other candidates to actually implement his agenda. And then secondarily, and this is quite secondary, Trump has also told people that he likes the way he looks.

So two things we were told after he made the decision. One and the most important thing is they had a personal rapport and Trump came to trust him. And he trusted that he would be the best position people of all these other candidates to actually implement his agenda. And then secondarily, and this is quite secondary, Trump has also told people that he likes the way he looks.

His physical appearance. Trump talks about – one of the highest forms of praise from Trump is when he describes someone as straight from central casting. It means that they look the part. And Scott Besant does look the part.

His physical appearance. Trump talks about – one of the highest forms of praise from Trump is when he describes someone as straight from central casting. It means that they look the part. And Scott Besant does look the part.

He has sort of gray hair and it's swept back and he wears glasses and he looks sort of almost professorial and he looks like the kind of guy that you sort of want to be the face for the treasurer's secretary, at least in Trump's opinion.

He has sort of gray hair and it's swept back and he wears glasses and he looks sort of almost professorial and he looks like the kind of guy that you sort of want to be the face for the treasurer's secretary, at least in Trump's opinion.

So he actually has known Trump for quite a while. They have a relationship that dates back decades from just being in New York circles in the 80s and 90s. He was also a fierce defender of Trump on television. And that's how he ended up, in part, getting this job as co-chair of the transition team.

So he actually has known Trump for quite a while. They have a relationship that dates back decades from just being in New York circles in the 80s and 90s. He was also a fierce defender of Trump on television. And that's how he ended up, in part, getting this job as co-chair of the transition team.

And he developed a really close relationship with Trump over these last few weeks in particular as he was sort of going over the ins and outs of what the administration should look like.

And he developed a really close relationship with Trump over these last few weeks in particular as he was sort of going over the ins and outs of what the administration should look like.

Over the last week and a half, Trump allies come out in favor of Lutnick for Treasury. And that is Elon Musk, the businessman, and Robert Kennedy Jr., who's now the nominee to lead the Health and Human Services Department. And they both came out on social media and said, you know, he's our guy, essentially. And not only that, Musk sort of

Over the last week and a half, Trump allies come out in favor of Lutnick for Treasury. And that is Elon Musk, the businessman, and Robert Kennedy Jr., who's now the nominee to lead the Health and Human Services Department. And they both came out on social media and said, you know, he's our guy, essentially. And not only that, Musk sort of

Yeah, we've been sort of chasing our tails over the last few weeks, trying to figure out what the president is going to do before he does it. But this is a big one for us. On Friday, the president-elect announced that he was going to pick Scott Besant to run the Treasury Department.

Yeah, we've been sort of chasing our tails over the last few weeks, trying to figure out what the president is going to do before he does it. But this is a big one for us. On Friday, the president-elect announced that he was going to pick Scott Besant to run the Treasury Department.

directly criticized Besson, arguing that he was a more business-as-usual approach and that he wouldn't shake up the Treasury Department in the way that they wanted him to.

directly criticized Besson, arguing that he was a more business-as-usual approach and that he wouldn't shake up the Treasury Department in the way that they wanted him to.

So one of the biggest things is their approach to trade. Besant, up until recently, has taken a more traditional Wall Street view of trade, and he's described Trump's sweeping plans for aggressive tariffs on basically all U.S.

So one of the biggest things is their approach to trade. Besant, up until recently, has taken a more traditional Wall Street view of trade, and he's described Trump's sweeping plans for aggressive tariffs on basically all U.S.

imports as a negotiating tactic, as something that when you sit down with other countries, this threat is enough to reach an agreement that is beneficial to both sides, and that ultimately some of these big campaign promises might not come to fruition because of that. Lutnik has been a little bit more of a just straight up cheerleader for Trump's trade agenda with fewer caveats.

imports as a negotiating tactic, as something that when you sit down with other countries, this threat is enough to reach an agreement that is beneficial to both sides, and that ultimately some of these big campaign promises might not come to fruition because of that. Lutnik has been a little bit more of a just straight up cheerleader for Trump's trade agenda with fewer caveats.

And so there was a sense that like he was a more true believer MAGA type guy.

And so there was a sense that like he was a more true believer MAGA type guy.

It was pretty intense. So these are some veteran people that lived through a lot of fighting in the first term. And they even were surprised by the degree to which not only were they sort of bad-mouthing each other behind the scenes, but also how aggressively and public the campaign became.

It was pretty intense. So these are some veteran people that lived through a lot of fighting in the first term. And they even were surprised by the degree to which not only were they sort of bad-mouthing each other behind the scenes, but also how aggressively and public the campaign became.

You had multiple candidates, you know, sort of publicly making the case on Twitter and elsewhere and in interviews for the job.

You had multiple candidates, you know, sort of publicly making the case on Twitter and elsewhere and in interviews for the job.

And it irritated Trump, according to people that we talked to, to the point where he actually broadened the search at the last minute beyond Lutnick and Besant to include other people like Kevin Warsh, who's the former Fed governor, and Apollo Global Management CEO Mark Rowan.

And it irritated Trump, according to people that we talked to, to the point where he actually broadened the search at the last minute beyond Lutnick and Besant to include other people like Kevin Warsh, who's the former Fed governor, and Apollo Global Management CEO Mark Rowan.

So one thing happened in the interim, which is what he decided to give Lutnik the commerce secretary job. So that ended up taking him out of the running. Notably, he also was giving Lutnik a pretty broad portfolio, including oversight of trade itself. And I just think he wasn't happy with the other candidates. And so I think he decided that his first initial gut instinct was the best one.

So one thing happened in the interim, which is what he decided to give Lutnik the commerce secretary job. So that ended up taking him out of the running. Notably, he also was giving Lutnik a pretty broad portfolio, including oversight of trade itself. And I just think he wasn't happy with the other candidates. And so I think he decided that his first initial gut instinct was the best one.

So Besant did his first interview with the journal just the other day, and he laid out a few things that he's at least in his initial thinking. So the sort of first and biggest thing is making the 2017 tax cuts that Trump oversaw permanent. That's going to be a massive undertaking that's going to unfold in 2025. That's going to involve lots of negotiations with lawmakers.

So Besant did his first interview with the journal just the other day, and he laid out a few things that he's at least in his initial thinking. So the sort of first and biggest thing is making the 2017 tax cuts that Trump oversaw permanent. That's going to be a massive undertaking that's going to unfold in 2025. That's going to involve lots of negotiations with lawmakers.

He also wants to follow through on the campaign promises that Trump made. So that's including eliminating taxes on tips, Social Security benefits and overtime pay. And he wants to focus on rolling back regulations, which is at the core of Trump's campaign pledge.

He also wants to follow through on the campaign promises that Trump made. So that's including eliminating taxes on tips, Social Security benefits and overtime pay. And he wants to focus on rolling back regulations, which is at the core of Trump's campaign pledge.

It is based on Shinzo Abe, the former prime minister of Japan's approach to sort of turning around the economy in the 2000s. And there are sort of three planks to that approach. So they include cutting the budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by 2028, spurring GDP growth of 3% through deregulation, and also producing an additional 3 million barrels of oil per day. So that's the 3-3-3.

It is based on Shinzo Abe, the former prime minister of Japan's approach to sort of turning around the economy in the 2000s. And there are sort of three planks to that approach. So they include cutting the budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by 2028, spurring GDP growth of 3% through deregulation, and also producing an additional 3 million barrels of oil per day. So that's the 3-3-3.

Yeah, I mean, he... He was smart to kind of create a name for it because I think Trump thinks that way. He sort of thinks in slogans. And it's unclear if Trump will explicitly adopt this 3-3-3 approach, but it was certainly a powerful selling point for him behind the scenes.

Yeah, I mean, he... He was smart to kind of create a name for it because I think Trump thinks that way. He sort of thinks in slogans. And it's unclear if Trump will explicitly adopt this 3-3-3 approach, but it was certainly a powerful selling point for him behind the scenes.

There were plenty of other decisions that happened quickly. The defense secretary, the attorney general, big positions that happened in just a matter of days. The fact that this took more than two weeks says a lot about the political importance of the economy for Trump. I mean, he knows that this is one of the issues that sunk Biden and then later Harris.

There were plenty of other decisions that happened quickly. The defense secretary, the attorney general, big positions that happened in just a matter of days. The fact that this took more than two weeks says a lot about the political importance of the economy for Trump. I mean, he knows that this is one of the issues that sunk Biden and then later Harris.

During the campaign, one of the things that he said was that he saw tariffs as a negotiating tool. In a letter to investors, he said, the tariff gun will always be loaded and on the table, but rarely discharged, which is an indication that he believed that these are a useful negotiating tool and a threat, but that you should really only use them when you have to.

During the campaign, one of the things that he said was that he saw tariffs as a negotiating tool. In a letter to investors, he said, the tariff gun will always be loaded and on the table, but rarely discharged, which is an indication that he believed that these are a useful negotiating tool and a threat, but that you should really only use them when you have to.

That really differs from the way that the president-elect thinks about tariffs. I mean, he got up on the campaign stage time after time and said, I'm going to slap 60% tariffs on China. I'm going to do up to 20% across-the-board tariff on all U.S. imports. He's talked about a 200% or higher tariff on vehicles from Mexico. These were not framed as simply negotiating tactics during the campaign.

That really differs from the way that the president-elect thinks about tariffs. I mean, he got up on the campaign stage time after time and said, I'm going to slap 60% tariffs on China. I'm going to do up to 20% across-the-board tariff on all U.S. imports. He's talked about a 200% or higher tariff on vehicles from Mexico. These were not framed as simply negotiating tactics during the campaign.

Now, I should note, Besant has sort of tried to tweak that position, especially because it was one of the reasons why people were trying to take him down in the final days. And he published an op-ed on Fox News' website just days before the announcement where he basically said that, you know, I'm a true believer on tariffs. And he criticized people who criticized tariffs.

Now, I should note, Besant has sort of tried to tweak that position, especially because it was one of the reasons why people were trying to take him down in the final days. And he published an op-ed on Fox News' website just days before the announcement where he basically said that, you know, I'm a true believer on tariffs. And he criticized people who criticized tariffs.

So he said in the op-ed, the reflexive opposition to tariffs represents political ideology and advocacy, not considered economic thought. Hmm. So he's trying to make this sort of economic, academic case for why tariffs are important.

So he said in the op-ed, the reflexive opposition to tariffs represents political ideology and advocacy, not considered economic thought. Hmm. So he's trying to make this sort of economic, academic case for why tariffs are important.

It remains to be seen how he'll actually approach it if he's confirmed and becomes treasury secretary. And my guess is at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of very spirited fights about this behind the scenes.

It remains to be seen how he'll actually approach it if he's confirmed and becomes treasury secretary. And my guess is at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of very spirited fights about this behind the scenes.

I think it says that for all the bluster and for all of the campaign rhetoric, Trump wanted a relatively steadying force at the Treasury. And then he was worried that if he picked someone that was a little bit more unknown or didn't have a whole lot of bona fides on Wall Street, that the market would be spooked.

I think it says that for all the bluster and for all of the campaign rhetoric, Trump wanted a relatively steadying force at the Treasury. And then he was worried that if he picked someone that was a little bit more unknown or didn't have a whole lot of bona fides on Wall Street, that the market would be spooked.

He just really didn't want to see the markets downturn as a result of whoever he chose. And in the days leading up to his decision, he called people on Wall Street and asked for their advice. And the advice that they gave was that Besson would be seen as a sort of steady leader and that they would reassure the markets. And it did.

He just really didn't want to see the markets downturn as a result of whoever he chose. And in the days leading up to his decision, he called people on Wall Street and asked for their advice. And the advice that they gave was that Besson would be seen as a sort of steady leader and that they would reassure the markets. And it did.

And he knows his political fortunes are really tied up in it.

And he knows his political fortunes are really tied up in it.

Yeah, so this is just starting now. He does not have a lot of strong relationships on Capitol Hill, so he's going to have to go to the Senate and meet and introduce himself to senators. As of now, we see no indication that he's not going to get confirmed. Remember, the Republicans now control the Senate. But they will certainly ask about his investment history.

Yeah, so this is just starting now. He does not have a lot of strong relationships on Capitol Hill, so he's going to have to go to the Senate and meet and introduce himself to senators. As of now, we see no indication that he's not going to get confirmed. Remember, the Republicans now control the Senate. But they will certainly ask about his investment history.

Republicans, I'm sure, will be curious about his future. longtime affiliation with George Soros. But as of now, we're not seeing any red flags that should slow down the confirmation battle, but it's something we're going to be watching closely.

Republicans, I'm sure, will be curious about his future. longtime affiliation with George Soros. But as of now, we're not seeing any red flags that should slow down the confirmation battle, but it's something we're going to be watching closely.

I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something...

I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something...

I agree. I mean, I don't think we can overstate how big of a shift this is. You think back to the George W. Bush administration, where, you know, it really, it was sort of a core tenet to view the U.S. as a sort of agent of helping, you know, other countries and stopping countries from taking or challenging the West. Trump views all of this as a waste of money, essentially.

I agree. I mean, I don't think we can overstate how big of a shift this is. You think back to the George W. Bush administration, where, you know, it really, it was sort of a core tenet to view the U.S. as a sort of agent of helping, you know, other countries and stopping countries from taking or challenging the West. Trump views all of this as a waste of money, essentially.

I mean, it regularly comes back to money for him. He feels really frustrated that the US is spending so much money in Ukraine and elsewhere, and he views this entire sort of thing as a negotiation. And, you know, for every criticism that you hear toward him about cozying up to Putin, he counters that, well, listen, it's a negotiation. I'm not going to attack the guy while we're negotiating.

I mean, it regularly comes back to money for him. He feels really frustrated that the US is spending so much money in Ukraine and elsewhere, and he views this entire sort of thing as a negotiation. And, you know, for every criticism that you hear toward him about cozying up to Putin, he counters that, well, listen, it's a negotiation. I'm not going to attack the guy while we're negotiating.

Yeah. I mean, that's certainly what the White House would argue, is that these sort of forceful interactions lead to a deal. And a deal, you know, in whatever form it takes, is ultimately what Trump is after.

Yeah. I mean, that's certainly what the White House would argue, is that these sort of forceful interactions lead to a deal. And a deal, you know, in whatever form it takes, is ultimately what Trump is after.

And this will expose fissures within the Republican Party about how to approach spending, how to approach the president's agenda. And those will continue in the coming months as Trump tries to extend tax cuts and put in place funding for the border. So it'll be an interesting moment.

And this will expose fissures within the Republican Party about how to approach spending, how to approach the president's agenda. And those will continue in the coming months as Trump tries to extend tax cuts and put in place funding for the border. So it'll be an interesting moment.

Yeah, things are about to get real.

Yeah, things are about to get real.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Hey, thanks for having me.

I think they wanted to make a splash, and they feel like they did. They are thrilled. They feel like Trump delivered on what he promised, which was to sort of explain to the public exactly what he's doing and to make no apologies for it. What was the splash?

I think they wanted to make a splash, and they feel like they did. They are thrilled. They feel like Trump delivered on what he promised, which was to sort of explain to the public exactly what he's doing and to make no apologies for it. What was the splash?

So there were a bunch of sort of theatrical moments throughout the speech, and Trump, we're told, going in, really wanted to emphasize those. You know, he sort of sees his presidency as a reality show, and that was sort of what we got. I mean, he announced that a 13-year-old boy with brain cancer would be an honorary member of the Secret Service.

So there were a bunch of sort of theatrical moments throughout the speech, and Trump, we're told, going in, really wanted to emphasize those. You know, he sort of sees his presidency as a reality show, and that was sort of what we got. I mean, he announced that a 13-year-old boy with brain cancer would be an honorary member of the Secret Service.

He said that a young man was admitted to West Point.

He said that a young man was admitted to West Point.

He revealed that they had captured one of the planners of a deadly 2021 suicide attack in Afghanistan.

He revealed that they had captured one of the planners of a deadly 2021 suicide attack in Afghanistan.

So it was about sort of finding moments that he knew would resonate on social media, on cable news, and he sort of peppered those throughout the speech. And it wasn't, you know, notably, though he did talk about policy, there really weren't a whole lot of new policy details in there. It was more about the optics.

So it was about sort of finding moments that he knew would resonate on social media, on cable news, and he sort of peppered those throughout the speech. And it wasn't, you know, notably, though he did talk about policy, there really weren't a whole lot of new policy details in there. It was more about the optics.

Yeah, and the White House, you know, kind of set up a trap for them there, right? I mean, they, and their argument both, you know, in the aftermath of the speech is like, how could you not applaud for a boy with brain cancer or a guy getting into West Point? You know, you are callous and heartless, and you are the ones who are politicizing this whole dynamic.

Yeah, and the White House, you know, kind of set up a trap for them there, right? I mean, they, and their argument both, you know, in the aftermath of the speech is like, how could you not applaud for a boy with brain cancer or a guy getting into West Point? You know, you are callous and heartless, and you are the ones who are politicizing this whole dynamic.

I think the biggest thing we learned is that he is not really detailing, you know, a point by point plan to deal with prices other than saying he wants to drill more. And he believes, you know, once we drill more, then, you know, inflation will solely be dealt with.

I think the biggest thing we learned is that he is not really detailing, you know, a point by point plan to deal with prices other than saying he wants to drill more. And he believes, you know, once we drill more, then, you know, inflation will solely be dealt with.

Yeah, he's blaming President Biden for all of the country's problems. He's not taking ownership of the issues that voters are facing. He blamed Biden for the price of eggs. And he really hasn't talked at length about how he's going to deal with prices beyond the issue of energy.

Yeah, he's blaming President Biden for all of the country's problems. He's not taking ownership of the issues that voters are facing. He blamed Biden for the price of eggs. And he really hasn't talked at length about how he's going to deal with prices beyond the issue of energy.

And that is worrying Republicans, both privately and publicly, who note that prices are one of the things that voters care about most. And it was actually the very thing that in part hurt Joe Biden in the last election.

And that is worrying Republicans, both privately and publicly, who note that prices are one of the things that voters care about most. And it was actually the very thing that in part hurt Joe Biden in the last election.

So there's a risk that if this isn't addressed, and of course there's quite a bit of time before the midterms, but if this isn't addressed in a serious way before then and prices continue to remain high, which we expect them to, that Republicans could see some political follow-up.

So there's a risk that if this isn't addressed, and of course there's quite a bit of time before the midterms, but if this isn't addressed in a serious way before then and prices continue to remain high, which we expect them to, that Republicans could see some political follow-up.

Exactly. I think Trump has a couple aims. One is, I think, first and foremost, to show that he is a strong man that will do what he's going to say and that he's going to punish countries for standing in his way. So it's a lot about showing strength and showing countries that he's serious when he makes these threats. He showed Canada and Mexico and China that this week.

Exactly. I think Trump has a couple aims. One is, I think, first and foremost, to show that he is a strong man that will do what he's going to say and that he's going to punish countries for standing in his way. So it's a lot about showing strength and showing countries that he's serious when he makes these threats. He showed Canada and Mexico and China that this week.

Secondarily, it is also about rejiggering the American economy to build manufacturing, more manufacturing in the U.S., and to rely less heavily on products from China and other countries. That is a long-term project that will take years and decades to accomplish. The question really is, like, can these tariffs actually achieve that in the short or medium term?

Secondarily, it is also about rejiggering the American economy to build manufacturing, more manufacturing in the U.S., and to rely less heavily on products from China and other countries. That is a long-term project that will take years and decades to accomplish. The question really is, like, can these tariffs actually achieve that in the short or medium term?

Certainly, if this is just a negotiating tactic, it's a little bit harder to make the case that this is going to be a long-term play to reorient the economy. But his goal is to get concessions from Canada and Mexico and China on the border when it comes to Canada and Mexico and on fentanyl, which he views as just a scourge on the country, particularly when it comes to China.

Certainly, if this is just a negotiating tactic, it's a little bit harder to make the case that this is going to be a long-term play to reorient the economy. But his goal is to get concessions from Canada and Mexico and China on the border when it comes to Canada and Mexico and on fentanyl, which he views as just a scourge on the country, particularly when it comes to China.

I would agree with that. And the other thing I would point out is that companies and countries feel really frustrated because they don't know the terms with which they're negotiating with Trump. It seems like it changes all the time.

I would agree with that. And the other thing I would point out is that companies and countries feel really frustrated because they don't know the terms with which they're negotiating with Trump. It seems like it changes all the time.

I think that's right. And I think it's right to a point. Certainly, at the end of the day, people are going to vote with their pocketbooks. And if prices soar, particularly on core groceries and other household items, I think that will really have an impact. Trump is aware of that. And his advisors, many of whom have long sort of been skeptical about tariffs, are even more aware of that.

I think that's right. And I think it's right to a point. Certainly, at the end of the day, people are going to vote with their pocketbooks. And if prices soar, particularly on core groceries and other household items, I think that will really have an impact. Trump is aware of that. And his advisors, many of whom have long sort of been skeptical about tariffs, are even more aware of that.

And they also are particularly concerned about the stock market and how it reacts. You saw Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, go on TV multiple times this week and sort of signal that, you know, this is all a negotiation and things could change. And every time he did that, the stock market ticked up a little bit more.

And they also are particularly concerned about the stock market and how it reacts. You saw Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, go on TV multiple times this week and sort of signal that, you know, this is all a negotiation and things could change. And every time he did that, the stock market ticked up a little bit more.

And so they're really conscious of those dynamics and how they'll play out in the coming days, weeks and months.

And so they're really conscious of those dynamics and how they'll play out in the coming days, weeks and months.

And I think it's the sort of Democrats being lost and not knowing how to respond to Trump is a result of a strategy that the White House has put in place very deliberately to throw as much at both Democrats and the media as they possibly can. And the effect of that is making it really difficult to respond in a unified, clear, direct way.

And I think it's the sort of Democrats being lost and not knowing how to respond to Trump is a result of a strategy that the White House has put in place very deliberately to throw as much at both Democrats and the media as they possibly can. And the effect of that is making it really difficult to respond in a unified, clear, direct way.

When you're getting 100 things a day from the White House, like, which one do you choose? And the Democrats are starting to get a little bit better about focusing on Musk and the economy, but they're also sort of chasing their tails about every single thing that comes around.

When you're getting 100 things a day from the White House, like, which one do you choose? And the Democrats are starting to get a little bit better about focusing on Musk and the economy, but they're also sort of chasing their tails about every single thing that comes around.

I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something...

I agree. I mean, I don't think we can overstate how big of a shift this is. You think back to the George W. Bush administration, where, you know, it really, it was sort of a core tenet to view the U.S. as a sort of agent of helping, you know, other countries and stopping countries from taking or challenging the West. Trump views all of this as a waste of money, essentially.

I mean, it regularly comes back to money for him. He feels really frustrated that the US is spending so much money in Ukraine and elsewhere, and he views this entire sort of thing as a negotiation. And, you know, for every criticism that you hear toward him about cozying up to Putin, he counters that, well, listen, it's a negotiation. I'm not going to attack the guy while we're negotiating.

Yeah. I mean, that's certainly what the White House would argue, is that these sort of forceful interactions lead to a deal. And a deal, you know, in whatever form it takes, is ultimately what Trump is after.

And this will expose fissures within the Republican Party about how to approach spending, how to approach the president's agenda. And those will continue in the coming months as Trump tries to extend tax cuts and put in place funding for the border. So it'll be an interesting moment.

Yeah, things are about to get real.

Thanks for having me.

Hey, thanks for having me.

I think they wanted to make a splash, and they feel like they did. They are thrilled. They feel like Trump delivered on what he promised, which was to sort of explain to the public exactly what he's doing and to make no apologies for it. What was the splash?

So there were a bunch of sort of theatrical moments throughout the speech, and Trump, we're told, going in, really wanted to emphasize those. You know, he sort of sees his presidency as a reality show, and that was sort of what we got. I mean, he announced that a 13-year-old boy with brain cancer would be an honorary member of the Secret Service.

He said that a young man was admitted to West Point.

He revealed that they had captured one of the planners of a deadly 2021 suicide attack in Afghanistan.

So it was about sort of finding moments that he knew would resonate on social media, on cable news, and he sort of peppered those throughout the speech. And it wasn't, you know, notably, though he did talk about policy, there really weren't a whole lot of new policy details in there. It was more about the optics.

Yeah, and the White House, you know, kind of set up a trap for them there, right? I mean, they, and their argument both, you know, in the aftermath of the speech is like, how could you not applaud for a boy with brain cancer or a guy getting into West Point? You know, you are callous and heartless, and you are the ones who are politicizing this whole dynamic.

I think the biggest thing we learned is that he is not really detailing, you know, a point by point plan to deal with prices other than saying he wants to drill more. And he believes, you know, once we drill more, then, you know, inflation will solely be dealt with.

Yeah, he's blaming President Biden for all of the country's problems. He's not taking ownership of the issues that voters are facing. He blamed Biden for the price of eggs. And he really hasn't talked at length about how he's going to deal with prices beyond the issue of energy.

And that is worrying Republicans, both privately and publicly, who note that prices are one of the things that voters care about most. And it was actually the very thing that in part hurt Joe Biden in the last election.

So there's a risk that if this isn't addressed, and of course there's quite a bit of time before the midterms, but if this isn't addressed in a serious way before then and prices continue to remain high, which we expect them to, that Republicans could see some political follow-up.

Exactly. I think Trump has a couple aims. One is, I think, first and foremost, to show that he is a strong man that will do what he's going to say and that he's going to punish countries for standing in his way. So it's a lot about showing strength and showing countries that he's serious when he makes these threats. He showed Canada and Mexico and China that this week.

Secondarily, it is also about rejiggering the American economy to build manufacturing, more manufacturing in the U.S., and to rely less heavily on products from China and other countries. That is a long-term project that will take years and decades to accomplish. The question really is, like, can these tariffs actually achieve that in the short or medium term?

Certainly, if this is just a negotiating tactic, it's a little bit harder to make the case that this is going to be a long-term play to reorient the economy. But his goal is to get concessions from Canada and Mexico and China on the border when it comes to Canada and Mexico and on fentanyl, which he views as just a scourge on the country, particularly when it comes to China.

I would agree with that. And the other thing I would point out is that companies and countries feel really frustrated because they don't know the terms with which they're negotiating with Trump. It seems like it changes all the time.

I think that's right. And I think it's right to a point. Certainly, at the end of the day, people are going to vote with their pocketbooks. And if prices soar, particularly on core groceries and other household items, I think that will really have an impact. Trump is aware of that. And his advisors, many of whom have long sort of been skeptical about tariffs, are even more aware of that.

And they also are particularly concerned about the stock market and how it reacts. You saw Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, go on TV multiple times this week and sort of signal that, you know, this is all a negotiation and things could change. And every time he did that, the stock market ticked up a little bit more.

And so they're really conscious of those dynamics and how they'll play out in the coming days, weeks and months.

And I think it's the sort of Democrats being lost and not knowing how to respond to Trump is a result of a strategy that the White House has put in place very deliberately to throw as much at both Democrats and the media as they possibly can. And the effect of that is making it really difficult to respond in a unified, clear, direct way.

When you're getting 100 things a day from the White House, like, which one do you choose? And the Democrats are starting to get a little bit better about focusing on Musk and the economy, but they're also sort of chasing their tails about every single thing that comes around.

One of the things that Trump talks a lot about and his close allies talk a lot about is they want to do things slightly differently than they did the first time. In the first term, they felt that they had too many people that were rowing in a different direction than them and that opposed fundamentally some of the things they were trying to do.

This time, though, the thing that they've really stressed is that, like, yes, there will be disagreement on the specifics, but you have to sort of... be in line with Trump ideologically in order to serve in his administration. And we'll see if that is actually the case, if there are people who harbor some concerns about some of his policies behind the scenes.

The Treasury Secretary, if Besson is confirmed, will be at the center of the entire economic agenda for the president-elect. He has made the economy kind of the centerpiece of his political campaign, and the Treasury Secretary will be at the center of all that. And whether he succeeds or fails will, of course, be at the feet of the president, but will also really be at the feet of Scott Besson.

But they really want people sort of all on the same page.

Good question. So the Treasury Secretary does a lot of things. So they are essentially the core economic policymaking engine of the federal government. They are in charge of lots of wonky things. They implement tax policy. They manage the nation's debt. They lead financial regulations. They oversee sanctions. And they conduct economic diplomacy abroad. So it's a huge mandate.

It's a massive department. And it's a really crucial job.

He sort of spent his entire career in this sort of investing world. And for someone like Donald Trump, a businessman who thinks in terms of dollars and cents, that's really important. He really likes people who have experience on Wall Street and people who have, in his view, been successful on Wall Street. He sees that as a really important asset, particularly at the Treasury Secretary role.

Remember, in his first term, Stephen Mnuchin, who was a Wall Street guy, was his... first term treasury secretary and maintained a relatively good relationship with Trump throughout his term.

It is. Yeah. I mean, you saw a lot of people come and go during the first term. Some lasted, you know, only weeks or months. And for someone to stick around for four years is really notable.

They know each other well now, but it's a relatively recent relationship. Besson has known the Trump family in a sort of acquaintance type way for decades, but he really started getting to know Trump about a year ago. Trump was impressed with Besson's unequivocal support at a time when a lot of people on Wall Street were backing people like Nikki Haley or just staying out of it altogether.

So he really caught Trump's eye there. when he was on TV praising him up and down?

And then they met at Mar-a-Lago and he traveled with him to some campaign events. He at one point was brought up on stage by Trump where he praised him and called him one of the smartest people on Wall Street.

So two things we were told after he made the decision. One and the most important thing is they had a personal rapport and Trump came to trust him. And he trusted that he would be the best position people of all these other candidates to actually implement his agenda. And then secondarily, and this is quite secondary, Trump has also told people that he likes the way he looks.

His physical appearance. Trump talks about – one of the highest forms of praise from Trump is when he describes someone as straight from central casting. It means that they look the part. And Scott Besant does look the part.

He has sort of gray hair and it's swept back and he wears glasses and he looks sort of almost professorial and he looks like the kind of guy that you sort of want to be the face for the treasurer's secretary, at least in Trump's opinion.

So he actually has known Trump for quite a while. They have a relationship that dates back decades from just being in New York circles in the 80s and 90s. He was also a fierce defender of Trump on television. And that's how he ended up, in part, getting this job as co-chair of the transition team.

And he developed a really close relationship with Trump over these last few weeks in particular as he was sort of going over the ins and outs of what the administration should look like.

Over the last week and a half, Trump allies come out in favor of Lutnick for Treasury. And that is Elon Musk, the businessman, and Robert Kennedy Jr., who's now the nominee to lead the Health and Human Services Department. And they both came out on social media and said, you know, he's our guy, essentially. And not only that, Musk sort of

Yeah, we've been sort of chasing our tails over the last few weeks, trying to figure out what the president is going to do before he does it. But this is a big one for us. On Friday, the president-elect announced that he was going to pick Scott Besant to run the Treasury Department.

directly criticized Besson, arguing that he was a more business-as-usual approach and that he wouldn't shake up the Treasury Department in the way that they wanted him to.

So one of the biggest things is their approach to trade. Besant, up until recently, has taken a more traditional Wall Street view of trade, and he's described Trump's sweeping plans for aggressive tariffs on basically all U.S.

imports as a negotiating tactic, as something that when you sit down with other countries, this threat is enough to reach an agreement that is beneficial to both sides, and that ultimately some of these big campaign promises might not come to fruition because of that. Lutnik has been a little bit more of a just straight up cheerleader for Trump's trade agenda with fewer caveats.

And so there was a sense that like he was a more true believer MAGA type guy.

It was pretty intense. So these are some veteran people that lived through a lot of fighting in the first term. And they even were surprised by the degree to which not only were they sort of bad-mouthing each other behind the scenes, but also how aggressively and public the campaign became.

You had multiple candidates, you know, sort of publicly making the case on Twitter and elsewhere and in interviews for the job.

And it irritated Trump, according to people that we talked to, to the point where he actually broadened the search at the last minute beyond Lutnick and Besant to include other people like Kevin Warsh, who's the former Fed governor, and Apollo Global Management CEO Mark Rowan.

So one thing happened in the interim, which is what he decided to give Lutnik the commerce secretary job. So that ended up taking him out of the running. Notably, he also was giving Lutnik a pretty broad portfolio, including oversight of trade itself. And I just think he wasn't happy with the other candidates. And so I think he decided that his first initial gut instinct was the best one.

So Besant did his first interview with the journal just the other day, and he laid out a few things that he's at least in his initial thinking. So the sort of first and biggest thing is making the 2017 tax cuts that Trump oversaw permanent. That's going to be a massive undertaking that's going to unfold in 2025. That's going to involve lots of negotiations with lawmakers.

He also wants to follow through on the campaign promises that Trump made. So that's including eliminating taxes on tips, Social Security benefits and overtime pay. And he wants to focus on rolling back regulations, which is at the core of Trump's campaign pledge.

It is based on Shinzo Abe, the former prime minister of Japan's approach to sort of turning around the economy in the 2000s. And there are sort of three planks to that approach. So they include cutting the budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by 2028, spurring GDP growth of 3% through deregulation, and also producing an additional 3 million barrels of oil per day. So that's the 3-3-3.

Yeah, I mean, he... He was smart to kind of create a name for it because I think Trump thinks that way. He sort of thinks in slogans. And it's unclear if Trump will explicitly adopt this 3-3-3 approach, but it was certainly a powerful selling point for him behind the scenes.

There were plenty of other decisions that happened quickly. The defense secretary, the attorney general, big positions that happened in just a matter of days. The fact that this took more than two weeks says a lot about the political importance of the economy for Trump. I mean, he knows that this is one of the issues that sunk Biden and then later Harris.

During the campaign, one of the things that he said was that he saw tariffs as a negotiating tool. In a letter to investors, he said, the tariff gun will always be loaded and on the table, but rarely discharged, which is an indication that he believed that these are a useful negotiating tool and a threat, but that you should really only use them when you have to.

That really differs from the way that the president-elect thinks about tariffs. I mean, he got up on the campaign stage time after time and said, I'm going to slap 60% tariffs on China. I'm going to do up to 20% across-the-board tariff on all U.S. imports. He's talked about a 200% or higher tariff on vehicles from Mexico. These were not framed as simply negotiating tactics during the campaign.

Now, I should note, Besant has sort of tried to tweak that position, especially because it was one of the reasons why people were trying to take him down in the final days. And he published an op-ed on Fox News' website just days before the announcement where he basically said that, you know, I'm a true believer on tariffs. And he criticized people who criticized tariffs.

So he said in the op-ed, the reflexive opposition to tariffs represents political ideology and advocacy, not considered economic thought. Hmm. So he's trying to make this sort of economic, academic case for why tariffs are important.

It remains to be seen how he'll actually approach it if he's confirmed and becomes treasury secretary. And my guess is at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of very spirited fights about this behind the scenes.

I think it says that for all the bluster and for all of the campaign rhetoric, Trump wanted a relatively steadying force at the Treasury. And then he was worried that if he picked someone that was a little bit more unknown or didn't have a whole lot of bona fides on Wall Street, that the market would be spooked.

He just really didn't want to see the markets downturn as a result of whoever he chose. And in the days leading up to his decision, he called people on Wall Street and asked for their advice. And the advice that they gave was that Besson would be seen as a sort of steady leader and that they would reassure the markets. And it did.

And he knows his political fortunes are really tied up in it.

Yeah, so this is just starting now. He does not have a lot of strong relationships on Capitol Hill, so he's going to have to go to the Senate and meet and introduce himself to senators. As of now, we see no indication that he's not going to get confirmed. Remember, the Republicans now control the Senate. But they will certainly ask about his investment history.

Republicans, I'm sure, will be curious about his future. longtime affiliation with George Soros. But as of now, we're not seeing any red flags that should slow down the confirmation battle, but it's something we're going to be watching closely.