Andrew Restuccia
Appearances
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
One of the things that Trump talks a lot about and his close allies talk a lot about is they want to do things slightly differently than they did the first time. In the first term, they felt that they had too many people that were rowing in a different direction than them and that opposed fundamentally some of the things they were trying to do.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
This time, though, the thing that they've really stressed is that, like, yes, there will be disagreement on the specifics, but you have to sort of... be in line with Trump ideologically in order to serve in his administration. And we'll see if that is actually the case, if there are people who harbor some concerns about some of his policies behind the scenes.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
The Treasury Secretary, if Besson is confirmed, will be at the center of the entire economic agenda for the president-elect. He has made the economy kind of the centerpiece of his political campaign, and the Treasury Secretary will be at the center of all that. And whether he succeeds or fails will, of course, be at the feet of the president, but will also really be at the feet of Scott Besson.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
But they really want people sort of all on the same page.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Good question. So the Treasury Secretary does a lot of things. So they are essentially the core economic policymaking engine of the federal government. They are in charge of lots of wonky things. They implement tax policy. They manage the nation's debt. They lead financial regulations. They oversee sanctions. And they conduct economic diplomacy abroad. So it's a huge mandate.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
It's a massive department. And it's a really crucial job.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
He sort of spent his entire career in this sort of investing world. And for someone like Donald Trump, a businessman who thinks in terms of dollars and cents, that's really important. He really likes people who have experience on Wall Street and people who have, in his view, been successful on Wall Street. He sees that as a really important asset, particularly at the Treasury Secretary role.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Remember, in his first term, Stephen Mnuchin, who was a Wall Street guy, was his... first term treasury secretary and maintained a relatively good relationship with Trump throughout his term.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
It is. Yeah. I mean, you saw a lot of people come and go during the first term. Some lasted, you know, only weeks or months. And for someone to stick around for four years is really notable.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
They know each other well now, but it's a relatively recent relationship. Besson has known the Trump family in a sort of acquaintance type way for decades, but he really started getting to know Trump about a year ago. Trump was impressed with Besson's unequivocal support at a time when a lot of people on Wall Street were backing people like Nikki Haley or just staying out of it altogether.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So he really caught Trump's eye there. when he was on TV praising him up and down?
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
And then they met at Mar-a-Lago and he traveled with him to some campaign events. He at one point was brought up on stage by Trump where he praised him and called him one of the smartest people on Wall Street.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So two things we were told after he made the decision. One and the most important thing is they had a personal rapport and Trump came to trust him. And he trusted that he would be the best position people of all these other candidates to actually implement his agenda. And then secondarily, and this is quite secondary, Trump has also told people that he likes the way he looks.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
His physical appearance. Trump talks about – one of the highest forms of praise from Trump is when he describes someone as straight from central casting. It means that they look the part. And Scott Besant does look the part.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
He has sort of gray hair and it's swept back and he wears glasses and he looks sort of almost professorial and he looks like the kind of guy that you sort of want to be the face for the treasurer's secretary, at least in Trump's opinion.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So he actually has known Trump for quite a while. They have a relationship that dates back decades from just being in New York circles in the 80s and 90s. He was also a fierce defender of Trump on television. And that's how he ended up, in part, getting this job as co-chair of the transition team.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
And he developed a really close relationship with Trump over these last few weeks in particular as he was sort of going over the ins and outs of what the administration should look like.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Over the last week and a half, Trump allies come out in favor of Lutnick for Treasury. And that is Elon Musk, the businessman, and Robert Kennedy Jr., who's now the nominee to lead the Health and Human Services Department. And they both came out on social media and said, you know, he's our guy, essentially. And not only that, Musk sort of
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Yeah, we've been sort of chasing our tails over the last few weeks, trying to figure out what the president is going to do before he does it. But this is a big one for us. On Friday, the president-elect announced that he was going to pick Scott Besant to run the Treasury Department.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
directly criticized Besson, arguing that he was a more business-as-usual approach and that he wouldn't shake up the Treasury Department in the way that they wanted him to.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So one of the biggest things is their approach to trade. Besant, up until recently, has taken a more traditional Wall Street view of trade, and he's described Trump's sweeping plans for aggressive tariffs on basically all U.S.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
imports as a negotiating tactic, as something that when you sit down with other countries, this threat is enough to reach an agreement that is beneficial to both sides, and that ultimately some of these big campaign promises might not come to fruition because of that. Lutnik has been a little bit more of a just straight up cheerleader for Trump's trade agenda with fewer caveats.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
And so there was a sense that like he was a more true believer MAGA type guy.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
It was pretty intense. So these are some veteran people that lived through a lot of fighting in the first term. And they even were surprised by the degree to which not only were they sort of bad-mouthing each other behind the scenes, but also how aggressively and public the campaign became.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
You had multiple candidates, you know, sort of publicly making the case on Twitter and elsewhere and in interviews for the job.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
And it irritated Trump, according to people that we talked to, to the point where he actually broadened the search at the last minute beyond Lutnick and Besant to include other people like Kevin Warsh, who's the former Fed governor, and Apollo Global Management CEO Mark Rowan.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So one thing happened in the interim, which is what he decided to give Lutnik the commerce secretary job. So that ended up taking him out of the running. Notably, he also was giving Lutnik a pretty broad portfolio, including oversight of trade itself. And I just think he wasn't happy with the other candidates. And so I think he decided that his first initial gut instinct was the best one.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So Besant did his first interview with the journal just the other day, and he laid out a few things that he's at least in his initial thinking. So the sort of first and biggest thing is making the 2017 tax cuts that Trump oversaw permanent. That's going to be a massive undertaking that's going to unfold in 2025. That's going to involve lots of negotiations with lawmakers.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
He also wants to follow through on the campaign promises that Trump made. So that's including eliminating taxes on tips, Social Security benefits and overtime pay. And he wants to focus on rolling back regulations, which is at the core of Trump's campaign pledge.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
It is based on Shinzo Abe, the former prime minister of Japan's approach to sort of turning around the economy in the 2000s. And there are sort of three planks to that approach. So they include cutting the budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by 2028, spurring GDP growth of 3% through deregulation, and also producing an additional 3 million barrels of oil per day. So that's the 3-3-3.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Yeah, I mean, he... He was smart to kind of create a name for it because I think Trump thinks that way. He sort of thinks in slogans. And it's unclear if Trump will explicitly adopt this 3-3-3 approach, but it was certainly a powerful selling point for him behind the scenes.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
There were plenty of other decisions that happened quickly. The defense secretary, the attorney general, big positions that happened in just a matter of days. The fact that this took more than two weeks says a lot about the political importance of the economy for Trump. I mean, he knows that this is one of the issues that sunk Biden and then later Harris.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
During the campaign, one of the things that he said was that he saw tariffs as a negotiating tool. In a letter to investors, he said, the tariff gun will always be loaded and on the table, but rarely discharged, which is an indication that he believed that these are a useful negotiating tool and a threat, but that you should really only use them when you have to.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
That really differs from the way that the president-elect thinks about tariffs. I mean, he got up on the campaign stage time after time and said, I'm going to slap 60% tariffs on China. I'm going to do up to 20% across-the-board tariff on all U.S. imports. He's talked about a 200% or higher tariff on vehicles from Mexico. These were not framed as simply negotiating tactics during the campaign.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Now, I should note, Besant has sort of tried to tweak that position, especially because it was one of the reasons why people were trying to take him down in the final days. And he published an op-ed on Fox News' website just days before the announcement where he basically said that, you know, I'm a true believer on tariffs. And he criticized people who criticized tariffs.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
So he said in the op-ed, the reflexive opposition to tariffs represents political ideology and advocacy, not considered economic thought. Hmm. So he's trying to make this sort of economic, academic case for why tariffs are important.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
It remains to be seen how he'll actually approach it if he's confirmed and becomes treasury secretary. And my guess is at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of very spirited fights about this behind the scenes.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
I think it says that for all the bluster and for all of the campaign rhetoric, Trump wanted a relatively steadying force at the Treasury. And then he was worried that if he picked someone that was a little bit more unknown or didn't have a whole lot of bona fides on Wall Street, that the market would be spooked.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
He just really didn't want to see the markets downturn as a result of whoever he chose. And in the days leading up to his decision, he called people on Wall Street and asked for their advice. And the advice that they gave was that Besson would be seen as a sort of steady leader and that they would reassure the markets. And it did.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
And he knows his political fortunes are really tied up in it.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Yeah, so this is just starting now. He does not have a lot of strong relationships on Capitol Hill, so he's going to have to go to the Senate and meet and introduce himself to senators. As of now, we see no indication that he's not going to get confirmed. Remember, the Republicans now control the Senate. But they will certainly ask about his investment history.
The Journal.
Inside Trump's Pick for Treasury Secretary
Republicans, I'm sure, will be curious about his future. longtime affiliation with George Soros. But as of now, we're not seeing any red flags that should slow down the confirmation battle, but it's something we're going to be watching closely.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something...
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I agree. I mean, I don't think we can overstate how big of a shift this is. You think back to the George W. Bush administration, where, you know, it really, it was sort of a core tenet to view the U.S. as a sort of agent of helping, you know, other countries and stopping countries from taking or challenging the West. Trump views all of this as a waste of money, essentially.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I mean, it regularly comes back to money for him. He feels really frustrated that the US is spending so much money in Ukraine and elsewhere, and he views this entire sort of thing as a negotiation. And, you know, for every criticism that you hear toward him about cozying up to Putin, he counters that, well, listen, it's a negotiation. I'm not going to attack the guy while we're negotiating.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Yeah. I mean, that's certainly what the White House would argue, is that these sort of forceful interactions lead to a deal. And a deal, you know, in whatever form it takes, is ultimately what Trump is after.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
And this will expose fissures within the Republican Party about how to approach spending, how to approach the president's agenda. And those will continue in the coming months as Trump tries to extend tax cuts and put in place funding for the border. So it'll be an interesting moment.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I think they wanted to make a splash, and they feel like they did. They are thrilled. They feel like Trump delivered on what he promised, which was to sort of explain to the public exactly what he's doing and to make no apologies for it. What was the splash?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
So there were a bunch of sort of theatrical moments throughout the speech, and Trump, we're told, going in, really wanted to emphasize those. You know, he sort of sees his presidency as a reality show, and that was sort of what we got. I mean, he announced that a 13-year-old boy with brain cancer would be an honorary member of the Secret Service.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
He revealed that they had captured one of the planners of a deadly 2021 suicide attack in Afghanistan.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
So it was about sort of finding moments that he knew would resonate on social media, on cable news, and he sort of peppered those throughout the speech. And it wasn't, you know, notably, though he did talk about policy, there really weren't a whole lot of new policy details in there. It was more about the optics.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Yeah, and the White House, you know, kind of set up a trap for them there, right? I mean, they, and their argument both, you know, in the aftermath of the speech is like, how could you not applaud for a boy with brain cancer or a guy getting into West Point? You know, you are callous and heartless, and you are the ones who are politicizing this whole dynamic.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I think the biggest thing we learned is that he is not really detailing, you know, a point by point plan to deal with prices other than saying he wants to drill more. And he believes, you know, once we drill more, then, you know, inflation will solely be dealt with.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Yeah, he's blaming President Biden for all of the country's problems. He's not taking ownership of the issues that voters are facing. He blamed Biden for the price of eggs. And he really hasn't talked at length about how he's going to deal with prices beyond the issue of energy.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
And that is worrying Republicans, both privately and publicly, who note that prices are one of the things that voters care about most. And it was actually the very thing that in part hurt Joe Biden in the last election.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
So there's a risk that if this isn't addressed, and of course there's quite a bit of time before the midterms, but if this isn't addressed in a serious way before then and prices continue to remain high, which we expect them to, that Republicans could see some political follow-up.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Exactly. I think Trump has a couple aims. One is, I think, first and foremost, to show that he is a strong man that will do what he's going to say and that he's going to punish countries for standing in his way. So it's a lot about showing strength and showing countries that he's serious when he makes these threats. He showed Canada and Mexico and China that this week.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Secondarily, it is also about rejiggering the American economy to build manufacturing, more manufacturing in the U.S., and to rely less heavily on products from China and other countries. That is a long-term project that will take years and decades to accomplish. The question really is, like, can these tariffs actually achieve that in the short or medium term?
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
Certainly, if this is just a negotiating tactic, it's a little bit harder to make the case that this is going to be a long-term play to reorient the economy. But his goal is to get concessions from Canada and Mexico and China on the border when it comes to Canada and Mexico and on fentanyl, which he views as just a scourge on the country, particularly when it comes to China.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I would agree with that. And the other thing I would point out is that companies and countries feel really frustrated because they don't know the terms with which they're negotiating with Trump. It seems like it changes all the time.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
I think that's right. And I think it's right to a point. Certainly, at the end of the day, people are going to vote with their pocketbooks. And if prices soar, particularly on core groceries and other household items, I think that will really have an impact. Trump is aware of that. And his advisors, many of whom have long sort of been skeptical about tariffs, are even more aware of that.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
And they also are particularly concerned about the stock market and how it reacts. You saw Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, go on TV multiple times this week and sort of signal that, you know, this is all a negotiation and things could change. And every time he did that, the stock market ticked up a little bit more.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
And so they're really conscious of those dynamics and how they'll play out in the coming days, weeks and months.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
And I think it's the sort of Democrats being lost and not knowing how to respond to Trump is a result of a strategy that the White House has put in place very deliberately to throw as much at both Democrats and the media as they possibly can. And the effect of that is making it really difficult to respond in a unified, clear, direct way.
The Journal.
Trump 2.0: ‘Just Getting Started’
When you're getting 100 things a day from the White House, like, which one do you choose? And the Democrats are starting to get a little bit better about focusing on Musk and the economy, but they're also sort of chasing their tails about every single thing that comes around.