Ann Corcoran
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Thanks for having me, Tony. And it's been great to collaborate with you on Humanities Over Handcuffs, giving families and mental health advocates a chance to have their voices be heard.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So, you know, I think that's very different there. And they're not able to advocate for any legislation. So I still haven't figured out how to have these conversations with our judges. But I am working on having conversations and meetings with DAs, prosecutors, defense attorneys, because there really needs to be some education there, I think, so that they understand.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
I've sat in on a lot of trials because everything is virtual as well as in person. And I'll be amazed when I'm watching somebody's child go in front of the judge and that I know has mental illness and has been in psychosis. And there is not oftentimes there is not one mention of the fact that by the defense or the prosecution that this individual has a serious mental illness.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So what I try to do is empower people, families, and teach them how to navigate the system and to encourage them to write letters. And, you know, really outside of the box thinking, and I've discussed this with judges as well, told them at one point, well, I have people write letters, even when they're not a victim in these cases, write a letter. and give it to the prosecution.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And the judge looked at me and he said, well, that's clever. And he said, most of the time they will read that. And that really has been improving outcomes for the families that we have been working with.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It falls on the families to educate the defense attorney, the prosecutor and the judge. It really does in a lot of these cases because they're not going to have that background information unless families get involved. And oftentimes families don't know that they're able to do that. No one tells you that you can do it. It's not written anywhere.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And that's why we developed our caregiver's guide to put these little tips in there because it is really outside of the box thinking and things that you can do. One of the things, you know, families will often feel like, well, there's nothing I can do. And I'll always say, there's always something you can do.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So the National Shadow and Silence Coalition, it was founded in 2017 by a woman by the name of Jean Gore. And unfortunately, she lost her battle to cancer about two years ago. I stepped up as executive director and have been involved with the organization for about two years at that point in time. And, you know, we've just really continued to grow from there.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It might not be something that people often do, but we really need to be creative in the way we're dealing with the criminal justice system when family members are involved. Because oftentimes it can mean the difference between them being incarcerated and serving time versus them being on probation and having mental health treatment.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It is. And I have to say, we're doing, you know, I forget, I'm not really sure how many mental health courts we have in Massachusetts, but those seem to, you know, we do have them in some areas. So if you commit a crime in a city that has a mental health court, you're pretty lucky. If you don't, then, you know, you might not be so lucky because you're right.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
The judges, the prosecutors, defense attorneys, most of the time they don't understand it. And that's, again, where families need to be proactive and be involved because it's really our job to educate them because they're not mental health professionals. Why would they necessarily know if no one tells them?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yeah. And Tony, it's not all it's not necessarily because they have no place to go. It's because they are in psychosis and don't want to be at home. I had another family that I was involved with NSSC and their son was in complete psychosis after going off his meds, left their house. I believe it was like, you know, in the middle of the winter.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
In the spring, he was found in downtown Boston, unable to walk, really in pretty bad shape. And the family thought, we found him. This is great. We'll get him in the hospital, get him back on his medications, and hopefully things will improve from there. But he went to the hospital, was there, and I got a call from the dad two weeks later. Their son had died in the hospital from an infection.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So he had a loving home. He was college educated. So it's not that these individuals have no place to live. It's an untreated psychosis that leads them to the streets. And that's pretty sad when we have solutions and we're, again, we're allowing this preventable suffering.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
We're an organization made up of caregivers, peers, and professionals all looking to advocate to improve outcomes for those with serious mental illness in their families.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Well, I think that there really needs to be more of a focus on assisted outpatient treatment. Again, there's two states, Massachusetts and Connecticut, that don't have the laws. That doesn't mean that all the other states have great AOT laws or utilize them the way they should be. But my hope is that we're going to strengthen these AOT laws. It is very state by state, but it's
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And if we could see them expand, not only in one county, but throughout the entire state. So that's going to be really a hard thing to do. It's going to take some time, but it can be done. It's not impossible. And with community behavioral health centers, I think that We're really in a good position to be able to do that. I know in Massachusetts, we have 26 community behavioral health centers.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And so I see that as an ideal situation to pass an AOT law because they have basically these types of programs already set up within the community behavioral health centers for people that can voluntarily walk in and ask for these services. But we just need the mandate to provide them to those that are too sick to know that they need help.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Well, I mean, we do that, but it's funny. In Massachusetts, people will say they don't want to know what other states are doing. Like, that's insulting to them. But yes, I mean... We do look at the cost savings. I was at Human Advocacy Center AOT Symposium last month, and there was someone from Alabama talking about the cost savings in two of their counties.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
One county, they saved in one year over $15 million. Can you imagine how many people we can treat and how many services with $15 million? Because think about it. You know, people cycling in and out of the hospital, people being arrested, the number of times someone appears before a judge, how long these cases go on, the individuals that are incarcerated.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
I mean, those have high costs associated with them, and it makes no sense.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And again, you know, I think that we do some of that. And we have some pretty horrific stories where somebody killed their mother and lit them on fire on their lawn. Another one, the elderly individuals, their lives were taken. You know, so we have those horror stories.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Well, I think that word is just getting out there and we're doing a lot of educational awareness. We do peer and pro talks quarterly. We've developed several guides. One is a psychosis guide. The other is a caregiver guide. We've also done collaborations with people like yourself in Humanities Over Handcuffs, but also with Aware Now, that's a digital platform magazine for social causes.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
But in Cindy's case, and by the way, the Tristan Murphy Act did pass by the House, and it's now being on the desk of the governor, which is great. I hope that the rest of the country can take a look at that and emulate what has been done there, because that really is something so tragic and never should have happened. But Cindy was a great advocate and ultimately had this law passed.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It's going to be life changing for Florida in terms of mental illness.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
I would say that to let listeners know that there's always something you can do to reach out and connect with us. We can always help you navigate a system that you might not be familiar with. It's nsscoalition.org. And our stories are powerful and it's fascinating. Family stories that are going to help change these policies so that this neglect and discrimination ends.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And I think that these stories are what are going to touch the hearts of legislators and once again, you know, make that change that's needed.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Oh, and thank you for having me, Tony. It's again, it's been a wonderful collaboration and I hope we can continue because I really think you're starting a movement. People, you know, families want to tell their stories and you're giving them a platform to do that. So thank you very much.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
We have done the Beyond Stigma campaign, which features people a story every month in their column showing that the reason that individuals with severe mental illness aren't getting the help they need goes well beyond stigma. And so we're really just trying to get our stories out there so that people can understand that it's discrimination and neglect that these individuals are facing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Because if you think about any other marginalized group, where would we let someone become homeless, not treat them in and out of a hospital? There really isn't another group that I can think of that we treat this way.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yeah, so that's a great question. It really isn't stigma. When we talk about severe mental illness and people in psychosis, which means they have lost touch with reality, they can't choose to have treatment because they don't know. And I know that you know the word anosognosia. They have no awareness into the illness. Therefore, they are not going to seek treatment.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And that is the number one difficulty that families face in trying to get their loved ones help. Perfect example that I can tell you, a woman that I'm dealing with in Massachusetts, she She has a son, 49 years old, been off his medications for over a year, completely psychotic, threatening to kill and rape people.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Most recently, he was going to take dumbbells outside and beat them because he was a creator. And this woman cannot get him help. So I have been working with her. I've called our Department of Mental Health. I called a co-response team to go out and evaluate him, spoken with the treatment team that was taking care of him, every possible person.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And two months later, he was still out in the community. He was recently arrested for getting an altercation with a group of people. And he's now sitting in jail in isolation, completely psychotic. And the lawyer, the public defender for her son, will not talk to this woman because he hasn't done anything really that bad. We're going to try and get him out.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So it's really like, what are we going to wait for a tragedy to happen? And then we're going to turn around and say, well, how did that happen? Well, this is how it happened. Of course, because this mother has been fighting to try and get her son help for over a year now and can't.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So, well, anosognosia is usually, you know, can be a part of psychosis and they really don't understand that they have an illness. And that really is the number one reason that people stop taking medication.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So even when somebody, you know, might have gotten out of the hospital, have been stabilized and on the medications, well, they usually stop taking their medications and because they feel OK and they think there's nothing wrong with me. And it's not very different than denial. It's not that they're denying they have an illness. They truly don't think that they're ill.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And it's similar to somebody with Alzheimer's. They don't recognize that they have Alzheimer's. And it's sort of the same way the brain works. These individuals do not think they're ill. And it's a very real condition. And so what happens when they're off the medication, eventually they do go back into psychosis, which means they have lost touch with reality.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
What they are seeing and hearing, they 100% believe to be true. And we know that most people with serious mental illness aren't dangerous. That is true. But we also know that leaving psychosis untreated is a recipe for disaster because we don't know what someone is thinking. And we've had Matt stick in as Dad Michael on one of our, doing one of our peer talks.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And Matt took the life of his mother. And when you listen to him talk about it, and he's very open, he said, I loved my mother. He was not a violent person. He would never want to hurt her. But he truly believed that he had to take her life because she was possessed with demons.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So why are we leaving people in the community untreated in psychosis when we know that they have lost touch with reality? You cannot predict at what point those delusions or hallucinations are going to become dangerous. Some people have command hallucinations. We have another mom who her daughter was hearing voices telling her to kill her mother, who she thought was an imposter and had raped her.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So these are very, you know, it's very real to the person experiencing them. And you can't tell them that it's not true or it's not happening. So we really need to treat psychosis as a medical emergency it is. And unfortunately, so many of the laws don't allow us to do that. We have to wait until a person becomes dangerous before we can get them help.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Another situation, we had a family that reached out. One person reached out 35 times, and that didn't include other family members. 35 times plus, so say, let's say 50 times combined, they reached out trying to get their loved one help who was in psychosis. And no one would help them. And unfortunately, that led to lives being lost.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So where really is the blame when people are begging for help and you have the system, you know, folding their arms and say, well, we can't do anything. They're not dangerous.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It really is through education. And we're seeing that in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is one of the last two states in the entire country without an assisted outpatient treatment law. And what that would do, it would allow someone to be treated in the community before they deteriorated to the point that they needed inpatient hospitalization.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So what we're doing now here in Massachusetts is we have to wait until somebody gets so sick and then they're hospitalized. And we just have to hope and pray that a tragedy doesn't occur. And so with an assisted outpatient treatment law, there's usually very strict criteria. It varies from state to state on what that criteria may be.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It's usually that they have to have a certain number of hospitalizations or have been involved in the criminal justice system, have a diagnosis of severe mental illness and a history of noncompliance. So that they now, you know, in all likelihood, if this person doesn't get help, then they are going to end up in the hospital.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So in Massachusetts, really what it is, because we had organizations like large mental health organizations that were actually against this because they were feeding the legislators false information. So what we have done is educate all of our legislators on what is happening and how many families are actually suffering and trying to get help when there is none.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And they truly didn't understand this information before. There was a recent retrial where a police officer's life had been taken. And during that retrial, I had the mom reach out to me and she said, what you're not hearing in this trial and on the news is that my son had a long history of schizophrenia.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Two weeks before this incident happened, I was begging the hospital to keep him and was told that, no, we asked him. He doesn't want to hurt himself or anybody else. So again, I just think where really is the fault in that? And I know that the family of this officer, they had no idea that this happened.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And I just think as people in the community, we should be outraged that our state is allowing this to happen because we have made it a public safety issue. When you have no means to treat people with serious mental illness and get them the help they need early on, we are putting everybody in the community at risk. It could be your neighbor.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yeah, so what I've done in Massachusetts, so we have Darrell Harmon, which I know you're having on your show. He is a peer who has lived with schizophrenia successfully for over 40 years. He developed a wonderful guide to psychosis and psychotic illnesses, a peer perspective. So he explains exactly what psychosis is and what anosognosia is.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
I have used that pamphlet, walked into DA's offices, explained to them, you know, gave them my elevator pitch of what's in that handbook and given them a few stories of the tragedies we've had in Massachusetts. And I can see it in their face. It's like a light bulb goes off and they suddenly understand why our state is failing terribly. And we're seeing all these tragedies happen in Massachusetts.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
And I walk out with their support for this legislation. So it really is, you know, building those relationships and having these conversations with important people and our legislators as well so that they understand where, you know, why our laws aren't working in Massachusetts and what needs to change.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yes. Well, you know, we're very fortunate in that we do have some champion legislators in Massachusetts for mental health and that have filed these bills and supported them. A lot of it goes back to the disability rights, you know, folks, because they will say, well, you know, somebody should have the autonomy to choose. But when we're allowing preventable suffering, that is not autonomy.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
That's neglect. Another example is a lot of individuals that end up getting put in a state hospital for competency restoration. They'll go in and they're in psychosis and they have the CPCS lawyers fighting there for their right to choose whether or not they want to be treated. So they will keep going against the medical team's advice.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
filing for extensions to postpone these civil commitments and leaving the individual in psychosis much longer than they ever should be. That really is the most inhumane thing you can do. And so you're talking about autonomy, but is that really autonomy when somebody is left in psychosis and is not competent? And in many of these situations...
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Someone that might have gone in for a misdemeanor ends up committing a felony while in jail or in the state hospital while psychotic because they are really not in control of what they're doing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yeah, and that is true. Our jails and prisons have become the de facto mental health institutions. And I know that because I've been speaking to a lot of the sheriffs in Massachusetts. And when I ask them, well, how many people in your jail have a mental illness?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
The different numbers varying 70 to 90 percent is a number I'm getting that people have either serious mental illness and or substance use disorder. That is extremely high.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
So while Massachusetts will pat themselves on the back for decreasing the number of people that are incarcerated, I've asked at webinars, you know, you're saying that you're closing jails, but can you tell me how many people in the jails now have mental illness and they don't have an answer?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yeah, I don't know that they're necessarily keeping track of it, but the jails run in the prisons, they know. Not really.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
It's really about early intervention and treating these individuals early on, and which is why we're advocating so hard for an AOT law in Massachusetts, because that is going to be the thing that's going to catch people upstream before they even enter the criminal justice system. There's just no need for that to happen. And then we also talk about the need for more beds.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Well, if we treat people earlier on, we are not going to be taking up those beds. We're waiting till people get so sick that then they need to be hospitalized. And, you know, of course, that is then taking up beds. My feeling is we're not going to need all those extra beds if we're treating people earlier on. And those beds can be left for the sickest people that need them for the longest time.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Ann Corcoran: Psychosis Isn't a Choice
Yes, absolutely. And that's been a challenge here is I've been trying to figure out and I've had conversations with some judges. How do I get in there to have these conversations? And I know. So in Massachusetts, we're different than a lot of other parts of the country. Our judges are not elected by the people. They are appointed by our governor.