Antony Blinken
Appearances
Global News Podcast
Multiple wildfires raging in Los Angeles
Well, we had some fire starting there that we'll put out because that would have cut all these bushes on fire and that probably would have put this house on fire. So we're trying to get rid of all the ambers. There were a bunch of ambers in the back as well that we just put out.
Global News Podcast
Multiple wildfires raging in Los Angeles
There's no water here. They shut off the water.
Global News Podcast
Multiple wildfires raging in Los Angeles
We think so. We think at this point there's a good chance to save it. Although there are fires that, as you can see from the other side, are approaching.
Global News Podcast
South Korea's president impeached
25 years since we premiered Malcolm in the Middle I'm so excited what a delight that I get to yell at that kid again
Global News Podcast
South Korea's president impeached
In this region and elsewhere, we've seen how the fall of a repressive regime can swiftly give way to more conflict and chaos, how the shoes of one dictator can be filled by another, or how interference by an outside country can be thrown off only to be replaced by another.
Global News Podcast
South Korea's president impeached
That's why it's so important that we and our partners came together today to agree on principles that will guide our efforts to help the Syrian people meet these challenges. and build the inclusive, non-sectarian, peaceful and sovereign state that they want.
Global News Podcast
The secret police's grip on Syria under Assad
No one knows the importance of that more than Iraq because of the presence and indeed the ongoing presence of ISIS or Daesh in Syria. The United States, Iraq together had tremendous success in taking away the territorial caliphate that Daesh had created years ago. And now, having put Daesh back in its box, we can't let it out and we're determined to make sure that that doesn't happen.
Global News Podcast
South Korea: police refuse to arrest impeached President
Korea's democracy has been tested in recent weeks. just as American democracy has faced challenges throughout our history. But you are responding by demonstrating your democratic resilience. The United States has full confidence in South Korea's institutions, and we reaffirm our unwavering support for the Korean people as they work tirelessly to uphold those institutions.
Morning Wire
Hegseth’s Confirmation Hearing & Israel-Hamas Deal Nears | 1.15.25
It's right on the brink. It's closer than it's ever been before. But right now, as we sit here, we await final word from Hamas on its acceptance.
Morning Wire
Hegseth’s Confirmation Hearing & Israel-Hamas Deal Nears | 1.15.25
That could come any time. It could come in the hours ahead. It could come in the days ahead. That's what we're looking for. But what we've done over the last weeks and especially over the last days has put it right there.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 12-14-2024 8PM EST
What happens inside of Syria can have powerful consequences well beyond its borders, from mass displacement to terrorism. And we know that we can't underestimate the challenges of this moment and in the weeks and months ahead.
NPR News Now
NPR News: 12-14-2024 6PM EST
Our message to the Syrian people is this. We want them to succeed, and we're prepared to help them do so.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I think the critical thing now going forward is this, if there is going to be a resolution or at least a near-term resolution, because it's unlikely that Putin will give up on his ambitions. If there's a ceasefire, then in Putin's mind, the ceasefire is likely to give him time to rest, to refit, to re-attack at some point in the future.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
So what's gonna be critical to make sure that any ceasefire that comes about is actually enduring is to make sure that Ukraine has the capacity going forward to deter further aggression. And that can come in many forms. It could come through NATO, and we put Ukraine on a path to NATO membership.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
It could come through security assurances, commitments, guarantees by different countries to make sure that Russia knows that if it reattacks, it's going to have a big problem. That, I think, is going to be critical to making sure that any deal that's negotiated actually endures and then allows Ukraine the space, the time to grow strong as a country.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, I hope very much. And I don't want to say expect, but I certainly hope very much that the United States will remain the vital supporter that it's been for Ukraine. Because, again, this is not just about Ukraine. It's never just been about Ukraine.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
To me, as I said before, in the absence of American diplomacy, you're going to have diplomacy by lots of other countries that are going to shape the world in ways that may not be so friendly to our own interests and our own values. So that's a choice. We can disengage. We cannot be present. We can stand back. But we know others will step in, and we have to decide whether that's in our interest.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Let's take an example. Let's take a concrete example. Let's talk about China for a minute. I think President Trump was right during his first administration in identifying some of the challenges posed by China. No country has the capacity that China does to reshape to its own will and designs the international system that we and many others put in place after the Second World War.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
It has the military power, the economic power, the diplomatic power to do that in ways that no other country does. And we also know that many of the practices it's engaged in have been grossly unfair to our workers, to our companies, undercutting them, driving them out of business. So I think he was right in identifying that problem.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Where I would disagree with the approach he took and where I would commend to him the approach that we pursued is we're so much more effective in dealing with the challenges posed by China when we're working closely with other countries.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
So if you're trying to take on the China problem, but at the same time, you're taking actions that in one way or another alienate allies and partners, you're likely to be less effective in dealing with China. When we took office, the European Union was on the verge of signing a major trade agreement with China. They were hedging. They weren't sure if they could count on the United States.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Well, I think a lot about the two sides of this coin that you just alluded to, what we inherited and what we're handing off. In terms of what we inherited, it's so easy to lose sight because people are focused understandably on the present and on the future, not on the past.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We'd had real challenges in the relationships in the preceding four years, and they were hedging toward China. So were many other countries. We were really on the decline when it came dealing with China diplomatically and economically. We've reversed that. And so I think the difference is the way we've approached it is we've sought to bring other countries in to dealing with this challenge.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
When we're dealing with China's economic practices that we don't like and we're doing it alone, we're 20% of world GDP. When we aligned Europeans, key allies and partners in the Asia Pacific, we're suddenly 40, 50, 60% of world GDP, something that China can't ignore.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And again and again, what I've seen over these last four years is a convergence in the approach taken to China with Europe and with Asia that we've not seen before. And I know it's succeeding because every time I meet with my Chinese counterpart, Wang Yi, the foreign minister, he inevitably spends 30, 40 minutes, 60 minutes complaining about everything we've done.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
to align other countries to build this convergence in dealing with things that we don't like that China's pursuing. So to me, that is the proof point that we're much better off through diplomacy.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, tariffs have their place.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And I think when they're strategically focused, then they can be a very effective and important tool. Look, the jury's out on exactly what the incoming administration does. We'll see. All I'm saying is I think there is a strategic utility, but they should be not, in my judgment at least,
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
When you do them across the board, then the people who usually pay the price are consumers because it's a tax that gets passed along to them because the producers of whatever the product is have to raise their prices because it's suddenly a lot more expensive to do business.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But if you just look back four years, when we took office, we inherited arguably the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. We inherited the worst public health crisis in at least 100 years.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, I think if you're sitting in Beijing – and I sat across the table from President Xi Jinping on several occasions in Beijing, as close as we are now. And I think what he sees is something that he didn't see four years ago. He saw a country that he thought was in an inexorable decline and China in an inexorable ascendancy. I think that picture looks very, very different today.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And I also think that what he's seeing is a United States that recognizes Republicans, Democrats, everything in between. The China pros is a profound challenge to us, and it's going to be an enduring challenge. We're in a competition to shape what the future looks like. And that competition doesn't have a clear finish line. It's not like ending a war. It's going to be there for a long time.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And the question is, have we set ourselves up in the best possible way to approach that competition from a position of strength? And I believe that's exactly what we've done.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
One of the things that I found a little astounding throughout is that for all of the understandable criticism of the way Israel has conducted itself in Gaza, you hear virtually nothing from anyone since October 7th about Hamas.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We had a country that was divided, and we had fraught relationships with allies and partners around the world, and a perception from our adversaries, whether it was Russia, whether it was China, other countries, that the United States was in inexorable decline.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Let's step back for a second and think about where we were on October 6th, and then where we were on October 7th, and where we've been since then. You're right, on October 6th, we were very much pursuing normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And in fact, I was scheduled to go to Saudi Arabia and Israel on October 10th, a trip obviously that didn't happen because of the events of October 7th. But the purpose of that trip was
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
was to work on the Palestinian component of any normalization agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel, because we believed, and the Saudis also said it was usually important, to make sure that if there was going to be normalization, there was also a pathway toward a Palestinian state. That's exactly what I was going to the region to work on. Well, as I said, that trip didn't happen.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Since October 7th, we've had some core goals in mind. I was there, I was in Israel and then in the region five days later. I saw horrors beyond anyone's imagination. inflicted on men, women, and children. And we were determined to do everything we could to help ensure that October 7th would never happen again.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We also wanted to make sure that the war wouldn't spread, that conflict wouldn't spread to other fronts, to other countries, because that would mean more death and destruction. It would also mean that the actions Israel was taking in Gaza were likely to endure even longer, and I can come to that in a minute.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Third, we wanted to make sure, to the best of our ability, that the children, the women, the men in Gaza who were caught in a crossfire of Hamas's initiation, that they did nothing to start and were basically powerless to stop, were as protected as possible and got the assistance they needed to survive this horrific conflict. And we've been working on each of those fronts every day since.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
When it comes to making sure that October 7th can't happen again, I think we're in a good place. Israel has destroyed Hamas's military capabilities. It's eliminated the leadership that was responsible for October 7th. And that in and of itself should be reason to find an off ramp in Gaza.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I don't need to tell you that. No one needs to remind me of the suffering because it's something that drives me every single day. It's exactly why. We've done everything in our power to find a way to get an end to the conflict through getting the hostages back and getting a ceasefire. I've been to the region a dozen times with that in mind.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Today, as I sit with you and as we look at all of the terrain we've traveled these last four years, I think we hand over an America in a much, much stronger position. Having come through the economic crisis, having come through the health crisis, and having changed much for the better our position around the world because we've made those investments in alliances and partnerships stronger.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We, as you know, have looked and continue to look at that in depth. And we put out our own reports on this with our own assessments. And when it comes to the actions that Israel has taken in its defense, in its just defense, in trying to make sure that October 7th never happens again, we've said from day one that how Israel does that matters.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And throughout, starting on day one, we've tried to ensure that people had what they needed to get by. The very first trip that I made to Israel, five days after October 7th,
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I spent with my team nine hours in the Kirya, the IDF's headquarters in Tel Aviv, six stories underground with the Israeli government, including the prime minister, including arguing for hours on end about the basic proposition that the humanitarian assistance needed to get to Palestinians in Gaza.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And that was an argument that took place because you had in Israel in the days after October 7th, a totally traumatized society. And public opinion, this wasn't just the prime minister or a given leader in Israel. This was an entire society that didn't want any assistance getting to a single Palestinian in Gaza. I argued that for nine hours.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
President Biden was planning to come to Israel a few days later. And in the course of that argument, when I was getting resistance to the proposition of humanitarian assistance getting in, I told the prime minister, I'm going to call the president and tell him not to come. if you don't allow this assistance to start flowing.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And I called the president to make sure that he agreed with that, and he fully did. Anyway, we got the agreement to begin assistance through RAFA, which we expanded to Kerem Shalom, to many other places. I say this by way of saying that we've tried all along to look out for the needs of so many people who've been caught in this horrific crossfire.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And we have a traumatized Palestinian population for obvious reasons. I've met with Palestinian Americans who've lost loved ones in Gaza. I have with me still a little brochure that one fellow American made that has pictures of his family in Gaza. On one side, the left side, those who were killed, including children. And on the right side, those who are still alive.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And that motivates me as well every single day to try to find a better way forward. Now, Israel is operating in a unique environment, which doesn't absolve it of its responsibilities, but- They met those responsibilities. And when it comes, for example, to the provision of humanitarian assistance, we've found periods of time where, no, we didn't think they were doing enough.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And this is exactly why, most recently with Secretary Austin, we pressed them very hard to take actions that would ensure that more assistance got to people.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
There's a big difference between intent and result, whether it's under the law or under anyone's standard. the results that we were seeing were grossly insufficient. That is, the results in getting people the assistance they needed. Just as making sure that people are protected, I think, has been insufficient. There's a very different question about what was the intent.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
As I said from day one, first of all, we have been and we remain fundamentally committed to Israel's defense. And unfortunately... It faces adversaries and enemies from all directions.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And that means that the support that the United States provides over many administrations, Republican and Democrat, over many years, that support is absolutely vital to making sure that Israel is able to defend itself, that it can deter aggression coming from many other quarters, whether it's Hezbollah, whether it's Iran, whether it's the many Iranian-backed proxies, whether it's the Houthis, you name it.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
That support is vital to making sure Israel has a deterrent, has an adequate defense. And in turn, that means that we're not going to have an even broader, wider conflict that results in more death and more destruction. And so it's been vital to maintain that.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We believed and continue to believe that the quickest way, the most effective way to have an enduring end to Gaza is through an agreement on a ceasefire that brings the hostages home. The two biggest impediments to getting that over the finish line, and we've been so close on several occasions, and as we speak today, we're also very close.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
There've been two major impediments, and they both go to what drives Hamas. One has been whenever there has been public daylight between the United States and Israel and the perception that pressure was growing on Israel, we've seen it. Hamas has pulled back from agreeing to a ceasefire and the release of hostages.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And so there are times when what we say in private to Israel, where we have a disagreement, is one thing, and what we're doing or saying in public may be another. But that's in no small measure, because with this daylight, the prospects of getting the hostage and ceasefire deal over the finish line become more distant.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Israel's prime minister— They went into Rafah in a very different way than they were planning to.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
No, I disagree with that. And again, I— mentioned how we've gone at humanitarian assistance from day one, and that's been a perennial and ongoing effort throughout this time. When it comes to Rafah, we had deep concerns about a direct attack and the use of the 2,000-pound munitions in densely populated areas.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
What Israel wound up doing in Rafah was very different from what they were planning to do before we engaged with them. So... So you feel like you've been effective in shaping the conduct of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's— I think the question we had was how can we most effectively both shape the conflict but also bring an end to the conflict.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And the focus on getting a ceasefire hostage agreement was what was, in our estimation, the quickest and most durable way to get an end. And as I said, Hamas won. When they saw Israel under pressure publicly, they pulled back. The other thing that got Hamas to pull back—
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
was their belief, their hope, that there'd be a wider conflict, that Hezbollah would attack Israel, that Iran would attack Israel, that other actors would attack Israel, and that Israel would have its hands full and Hamas could continue what it was doing. So we've worked very hard to make sure that that didn't happen.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Part of that was making sure that Israel had what it needed to defend itself to deter broader aggression. The second part of that was when we were on the precipice on multiple occasions of having the wider war that Hamas wanted, we found ways through diplomacy and through defense and deterrence to avert it.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
No, that's not accurate. What we've seen time and again is Hamas not concluding a deal that it should have concluded. There have been times when actions that Israel has taken have, yes, made it more difficult, but there's been a rationale for those actions, even if they've sometimes made getting to a conclusion more difficult. For example, the killing of Sinwar.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
In the absence of SINWAR, where you had basically a single decider, that happened just at a point where we thought we might be able to bring this agreement over the finish line. All of a sudden, there's not a single decider, and it's a lot harder to get a decision out of Hamas. So all of these actions have second and third order effects that you have to calculate. But fundamentally, look...
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I'm not sure that I agree with the premise of the question, which is, from what I see, from what I read, from the analysis that I see, most Americans want us to be engaged in the world. They want to make sure that we stay out of wars, that we avoid conflict, which is exactly what we've done, but they want to see the United States engaged. And I think they understand that if we're not engaged,
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
One of the things that I found a little astounding throughout is that for all of the understandable criticism of the way Israel has conducted itself in Gaza, you hear virtually nothing from anyone since October 7th about Hamas. Why there hasn't been a unanimous chorus around the world for Hamas to put down its weapons, to give up the hostages, to surrender.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I don't know what the answer is to that. Israel on various occasions has offered safe passage to Hamas's leadership and fighters out of Gaza. Where is the world? Where is the world in saying, yeah, do that. End this. Stop the suffering of people that you brought on. Now, again, that doesn't absolve Israel of the way of its actions in conducting the war.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But I do have to question how it is we haven't seen a greater sustained condemnation and pressure on Hamas to stop what it started and to end the suffering of people that it initiated.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I have... inordinate respect for the people in this department who've not only had different views of the policies that we pursued, but have expressed those views, including in what's been a time-honored tradition of the department, which is something called a descent channel cable. This is the ability of any officer in the department.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
to send a message, a memo, a cable to me reflecting their differences. And every single one of those winds up on my desk, every single one of those I read, every single one of those I respond to, including 20 or so on Gaza. And some, of course, have brought forward some of these facts. I didn't need to send channel cables to have the facts in front of me. I get them every single day.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I read everything. I comment on everything. I look for answers on everything. Does that mean we get to the right answers every time? No. But does it mean we're intensely focused on it? Yes.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And again, my goal has been to end this conflict in Gaza in a way that makes sure that October 7th doesn't happen again, that ends the suffering of people and does it in an enduring way that brings the hostages home.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
If we're not leading, then one of two things is likely. Someone else will do it in our place and probably not in a way that reflects our interests and our values. Maybe it's China, maybe it's some other country. Or maybe just as bad, no one does it. And then you're likely to have a vacuum that's filled by bad things before it's filled with good things. And inevitably, that comes back to bite us.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
No. It's not, first of all. Second, as to how the world sees it, I can't fully answer to that. But Everyone has to look at the facts and draw their own conclusions from those facts. And my conclusions are clear. I think as well, there is, in the wake of this horrific suffering, the traumatization of the Israeli population, the Palestinian population, and many others, there's also a light.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
that one can see, that offers the prospect of a much different and much better future. It doesn't bring back the lives of those who've been lost. It doesn't bring back the parents of the children in Gaza who've lost their parents or the children for parents in Israel on October 7th. who lost theirs, but it does offer a different way forward.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And we've done an extraordinary amount of work to build the foundation for that. First, you've got to end the conflict in Gaza. And I believe it will end, and it will probably end more or less on the terms that we've established in the hostage ceasefire agreement that President Biden put forward, that we got the whole world behind. It will land there. Second, you have to make sure it's enduring.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We've spent months working on a post-conflict plan with many countries in the region, Arab partners in particular. And that plan is – if we don't have the opportunity to start to try to implement it through a hostage ceasefire agreement in the next couple of weeks, we will hand it off to the incoming Trump administration and they can decide whether to move forward with it.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Third, we have the prospect of a totally different region with normalized relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia and many other countries. Israel integrated into the security architecture of the region and – because it will be a requirement of any such normalization agreement, a real pathway to a Palestinian state. We've done all of the work to put those plans in place.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Normalization with Saudi Arabia, that can happen tomorrow based on the work that we've done, the investments we've made, once there is an end to the conflict in Gaza and an agreement on a credible pathway forward for the Palestinians. All of that work is there. That's what we'll be handing over. But
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
It requires leaders to make really hard decisions, and it requires somehow moving beyond the trauma of two societies, Israeli and Palestinian, that we see and that have taken root. That's going to be the really hard part.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, here's what I can tell you. Look at everything we've done, everything I believe that we've achieved in this administration at home and around the world. And whether you agree or not, I think there's a very strong record of achievement, historic in many ways.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Every single one of those achievements has been the product of a decision that was made by the president of the United States, by President Biden, not by me, not by others in the administration, by the president. His judgment, his decision, his action has been proven reflected in what we've done, what we've achieved. That's the basis upon which to judge whether he's been an effective president.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And from what I see, most Americans understand that, believe that, and want to see us leading and engaged.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And I believe the answer is resoundingly yes.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, we all change. We all age. I have a I have a four, soon to be five-year-old daughter. I was sitting with her the other day and now four years in, and she was saying, oh, daddy's wearing a white shirt. He's got on a blue suit. He has black shoes and he has gray hair. And I said, no, no, no, my hair's brown. And she said, no, it's gray. We all get older. We all change as we get older.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But again, what I've seen when it comes to judgment, when it comes to decisions that do right by the country. He's shown that judgment. He's made those decisions.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
You know, my friend Tom Friedman wrote a few months ago a column that basically said, parents, don't let your sons and daughters grow up to be Secretary of State. It's a different world than it was when some of my predecessors were doing this.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And I think at the heart of that is something I've seen over 32 years that I've been engaged in foreign policy, starting at the very beginning of the Clinton administration and now concluding with the Biden administration, which is that Now, and in recent years, there's been a greater multiplicity, a greater complexity, a greater interconnectedness of problems than ever before.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And they're happening at a speed that we've never experienced before. And as a result, It's a very different challenge, but some basic fundamentals haven't changed, at least for me. And yes, it does go to the lessons that I learned from my stepfather, from my father and other relatives, almost all of whom came to this country
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
as immigrants, as refugees, fleeing oppression, fleeing the case of my stepfather, the war and the Holocaust that eliminated his entire family, and each in one way or another finding themselves on our shores. And having seen the United States as the last best hope, having come here, rebuilt their lives, and flourished because this is the country that we are.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
First, one of the things in this job that I've appreciated about it is I don't do politics, I do policy. Sure. So the real question is, what are the policies that can make a difference in the lives of Americans, can make them a little bit safer, a little bit more full of opportunity, a little bit healthier? That's what we're really focused on.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
My stepfather came to the United States after surviving the Holocaust, eventually made his way here, and even served in the Kennedy administration. And you could become an American by special act of Congress, which he was. So Congress passes an act and he became an American citizen. And I have, my family has that act. And he used to say, never forget, I'm an American by choice.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
You're an American by accident of birth. And I take that very seriously because what it means to me is there's an extraordinary responsibility that comes with being an American, a responsibility that comes from being part of the greatest country on earth.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And if you're in public service, as I've had the incredible privilege of being for 32 years, a responsibility to try to use that in the best way that you can to do better by your fellow citizens, but also people around the world. And every place I've been around the world, everything I've heard, even with criticism, intense criticism of our policies, is people want the United States involved.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
They want us engaged. They want us leading. They know that we're more likely to get to a solution when we're at the table than without us.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Great to be with you today. Thanks. Thanks.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Do you know how the series ends? Do you have the arc all plotted out? We have the end. Yes. Would it be a spoiler to tell me the ending? Yes.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
How do these policies that we're pursuing around the world translate into real benefits for the American people? In terms of an analysis of the election, really not my place to do it, and there are lots of different views on politics,
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Again, I'm not at all sure that the election turned on any one or even collection of foreign policy issues. Most elections don't. But leaving that aside, Americans don't want us in conflict. They don't want us in war. We went through 20 years where we had hundreds of thousands of Americans deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. People were tired of that.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Understandably, well, when President Biden was vice president, he presided over the end of our engagement in Iraq in terms of the war there and ending that part of the conflict. As president, he ended the longest war in our history, Afghanistan. The investments that we've made in our NATO alliance, maybe we haven't done a good enough job explaining it. And that's the case, that's on me.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But one of the things that we try to explain to Americans who, Given that this is a generation, of course, that is far removed from World War II, nevermind World War I, the reason so many of the institutions, including NATO, came into being in the first place was to try to make sure that we never had another global conflagration after World War II.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And the strength of an alliance like NATO is in the basic bargain the countries make in joining it. And that is an attack on one is an attack on all. That is the single most powerful way to prevent conflict in the first place, to deter aggression.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I think when we can put it in those terms and Americans can see that we're making investments in something like the NATO alliance precisely because we want to avoid conflict, we want to prevent war, we want to deter aggression, that's something that they sign on to, that they buy into.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
First, I make no apologies for ending America's longest war. This, I think, is a signal achievement of the president's. The fact that we will not have another generation of Americans fighting and dying in Afghanistan, I think that's an important achievement in and of itself. It's also actually strengthened our position around the world, and I see that every single day.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Our adversaries would have liked nothing more than for us to have remained bogged down in Afghanistan. And for another decade, would have been good by them.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
There was never going to be an easy way to extricate ourselves from 20 years of war. I think the question was, what were we going to do moving forward from the withdrawal? We also had to learn lessons from Afghanistan itself. Here at the State Department, one of the things that I ordered almost immediately was an after-action review to try to make sure that we understood what had we gotten right.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Also, what had we gotten wrong? in the withdrawal itself. I brought back senior diplomats to do that. We produced a lengthy report with about 40 recommendations. We followed through on most of them to make sure that we're in a better position to deal with a crisis, to deal with an evacuation like Afghanistan, and we are.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And in fact, we've actually put into practice many of those recommendations in subsequent crises that we had to face, whether it was in Lebanon, whether it was in Israel, whether it was in Sudan, All of that we brought to bear based on lessons that we've learned from Afghanistan.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, at different moments, we may have been... Look, there have been different moments where we had real concerns about actions that Russia might take, including even potentially the use of nuclear weapons. That very much focused the mind. But again, I think throughout, we've been able to navigate this in a way that has kept us away from direct conflict with Russia. Now, Russia's engaged in...
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
all sorts of nefarious activities, so-called hybrid attacks of one kind or another, whether it's in cyberspace, whether it's acts of sabotage, assassination. Those things are happening. They're happening in Europe. And this is something that we're working very closely on with many of our partners.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But in terms of direct conflict, I don't think we've been close, but it's something that we've had to be very mindful of.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
So first, if you look at the trajectory of the conflict, because we saw it coming, we were able to make sure that not only were we prepared and allies and partners were prepared, but that the Ukraine was prepared.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
We made sure that well before the Russian aggression happened, starting in September, the Russian aggression happened in February, starting in September, and then again in December, we quietly got a lot of weapons to Ukraine to make sure that they had in hand what they needed to defend themselves.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Things like stingers, javelins that they could use that were instrumental in preventing Russia from taking Kyiv, from rolling over the country, erasing it from the map, and indeed pushing the Russians back But I think what's so important to understand is at different points in time, people get focused on one weapon system or another. Is it an Abrams tank? Is it an F-16? Is it an Atacom, a missile?
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
What we've had to look at each and every time is not only Should we give this particular system to the Ukrainians? But do they know how to use it? Do they have the requisite training? Can they maintain it? Is it part of a coherent plan? All of those things factored into the decisions we made on what to give them and when to give it.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But in each and every time, it was to make sure that they had what they needed to defend themselves. In terms of diplomacy, we've exerted extraordinary diplomacy in bringing and keeping together more than 50 countries, not only in Europe, but well beyond, in support of Ukraine and in defense of these principles that Russia also attacked back in February of that year.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Look, I worked very hard in the lead up to the war, including meetings with my Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, in Geneva a couple of months before the war, trying to find a way to see if we could prevent it, trying to test the proposition
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
whether this was really about Russia's concerns for its security, concerns somehow about Ukraine and the threat that it posed, or NATO and the threat that it posed, or whether this was about what it in fact is about, which is Putin's imperial ambitions and the desire to recreate a greater Russia, to subsume Ukraine back into Russia.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
But we had to test that proposition, and we were intensely engaged diplomatically with Russia. Since then, Since then, had there been any opportunity to engage diplomatically in a way that could end the war on just and durable terms, we would have been the first to seize them. Unfortunately, at least till this moment, we haven't seen any signs that Russia's been genuinely prepared to engage.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
I hope that that changes.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Well, first, what we've left is Ukraine, which was not self-evident because Putin's ambition was to erase it from the map. We stopped that. Putin has failed. His strategic objective in regaining Ukraine has failed and will not succeed. Ukraine is standing. And I believe it also has extraordinary potential, not only to have survived, but actually to thrive going forward.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And that does depend on decisions that future administrations and many other countries will make. Right now, as I'm looking at this, I think the real measure of success is is whether going forward, Ukraine will continue to stand strong as an independent country, increasingly integrated with Western institutions, and able to stand on its own feet militarily, economically, democratically.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
And in each of those areas, we put Ukraine on a trajectory to do that.
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
These are decisions for Ukrainians to make. They have to decide where their future is and how they want to get there. Where the line is drawn on the map, at this point, I don't think is fundamentally going to change very much. The real question is, can we make sure that Ukraine is in a position to move forward strongly?
The Daily
'The Interview': Antony Blinken Insists He and Biden Made the Right Calls
Ceded is not the question. The question is the line as a practical matter in the foreseeable future is unlikely to move very much. Ukraine's claim on that territory will always be there. And the question is, will they find ways with the support of others to regain territory that's been lost?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Look, in this moment, David, no one's ready for that conversation. I acknowledge it. But... It proceeds in steps. First step is getting an end to the conflict in Gaza. And again, as we speak, we're on the brink at least of getting an initial ceasefire. Then it's turning that ceasefire into something permanent.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And in order to do that, we have to have understandings, we have to have arrangements for what's going to fill into Gaza for security, for governance and administration, for reconstruction that is not Israel and not Hamas.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And we've done a lot of work on that over the last six months with Arab partners, with others, so that we can hand over a plan to the incoming administration, which it can use or not use, look at or not look at, to do that. But if we can get to that point where we have a permanent ceasefire, okay, Gaza is then settled down at... extraordinary, excruciating cost, but that's one piece.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And then I come back to what we were talking about before, which is, again, why I believe that the road to finally resolving the Palestinian question is still there. And that is the prospects for Israel of finally integrating the region, finally having normal relations with everyone.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
We saw powerfully what that can mean for Israel's security when not once, but twice, Iran attacked Israel, the first time, unprecedented, hundreds of ballistic missiles and drones. And what happened? Because of countries that we, the United States, put together, including countries in the region, Israel was defended. The attacks failed.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
David, as someone who actually worked on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff for six years, I hate to get ahead of the Senate confirmation process. So let's see what actually happens over the course of the next week. But let me look. Let me just say this. I've had I've had.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I've had a number of conversations with Marco Rubio, Senator Rubio, who I've known for years, in part because of his service on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And at the risk of damning him with praise that he might not want, we've had really good conversations. And Tulsi Gabbard?
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I don't know her, have not talked to her, but I do know Senator Rubio, and I think he's extremely well prepared for the job by his service on the Foreign Relations Committee, on the Intelligence Committee, and he's deeply thoughtful about most of the things we have to confront.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
It depends, I suppose, for each how they see the alternative. In the case of Zelensky, he has to be responsive to the Ukrainian people. And if the Ukrainian people...
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
feel believe desire that there be a Resolution or at least a ceasefire then I suspect that he'll reflect that in the policies he pursues But he has to be responsive to them look Here's the here's what I think the fundamental issue is going to be especially for the incoming administration is they're looking at this if there's going to be a ceasefire
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
We've tried to do everything possible to make sure that Ukraine could, if that's the decision it made to pursue a ceasefire, they could do it from a position of strength. And I think it's also in the interest of the Trump administration to make sure that if a deal is cut, it's a good deal, a strong deal. President Trump prides himself in making the best deals.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
So it needs to be from a position of strength, but there's something else that's critical. One thing that has to be built into any resolution, and when I say resolution, I really mean a ceasefire because there's not going to be an ultimate resolution in the near term. The question, the status of the territories currently under Russian control probably won't be resolved for a long time. But
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
If there's going to be a ceasefire, it has to be one that holds. And that means that there has to be a credible deterrent because Putin will use any ceasefire to rest, refit, and then eventually re-attack.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Oh, I think they're different ways that each of them probably looks at it. They probably see some things that they like and some things that they have to be concerned about, too, because... How would you spell it out? You know... Look, a certain degree of unpredictability is... can be useful. And it may be that in the case of adversaries, competitors, that's something that does concern them.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
But the real question is how that actually plays out in practice. What are the policies that the administration pursues? What's the effect of those policies? That's where the rubber meets the road. So at some point, you actually have to make decisions. You have to choose. You have to pursue a certain policy.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
We've done everything possible to make sure that it didn't come to that point and that that was not a decision that anyone had to make. And I think we've been very successful in doing that for a number of reasons.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Look, we said, and I'll continue to say, that we would do everything possible to ensure that Taiwan had the means to defend itself. But part of that, though, is making sure that—and this gets back to Ukraine, among other things—
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
One of the reasons that our response to Ukraine was so important was because this aggression committed against Ukrainians and against the country was also an aggression against some pretty basic principles at the heart of the international system that everyone looks at. And had we allowed this to go forward with impunity, the message to would-be aggressors anywhere is open season.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
You can get away with it. One of the most powerful moments in the aggression against Ukraine was when the Japanese prime minister, half a world away, Kishida, the then prime minister, who stood up almost immediately, put in his lot with Ukraine and said, what's happening in Ukraine today could be happening in East Asia tomorrow.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
That's why this response has been so important, not just for Ukraine, as important as that may be, but because of what it says more broadly. I think China's paid very close attention to that. At the same time, we brought country after country together with the proposition that what happens in and around Taiwan matters to them, including countries way far away.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
from Taiwan because you've got 50% of commercial container traffic going through that straight every day, 70% of the semiconductors made on Taiwan. If there were a crisis of China's making over Taiwan, the entire world would be affected. We'd have an economic crisis. That's why we got country after country to weigh in with China, with Beijing to say, keep the peace, preserve stability.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And I obviously can't speak for him. And I also really can't predict what he would do, how the administration will approach this. I think he also, rightly in my judgment, during his first term, put more focus on some of the challenges coming from China. That was a good thing. Now, where I disagreed was the way he went about trying to meet those challenges.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And that is also at the same time, taking it to our allies and partners who we actually need with us if we're gonna be effective in dealing with China. When we're dealing, for example, with economic practices that China's engaged in that we don't like,
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I'll do my best to take on my deep-rooted instincts of caution and sticking to talking points. Exactly.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
undercutting our companies, our workers with overcapacity, destroying communities by flooding in subsidized products, doing all sorts of things in their trade and commercial relationships that are unfair, that we don't do to them. When we're taking those on alone, we're, what, 20% of world GDP. If we're aligned with allies and partners in Europe and Asia, we're 40, 50, 60% of GDP.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And China can't ignore that. That's exactly what we've done. David, we've had more convergence now in how to deal with all of the challenges posed by China with Europe, with Asia than we've ever had before. And that's a source of strength. Now, maybe we haven't done a good enough job explaining it, just as with NATO. People don't want war. They don't want conflict. Of course.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, President Biden got us out of America's longest war after 20 years.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
What's true is this. I think we're living in a period that is in so many ways more combustible, more contested, more complicated than any since the end of the Cold War. And as we've seen it, we are moving into a new era, a new phase.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I think fundamentally, look, there are near-term dangers that we see playing out in Ukraine. There are near-term dangers that you can see anywhere from Pakistan to North Korea. But fundamentally, the larger danger I see is this. We did construct an order after two world wars with the express design of preventing another global conflagration. And that order was always imperfect.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
It's been tested, it's been challenged, but it basically did its job in making sure we didn't have another global conflagration. And with it came a lot of rules, norms, understandings of one kind or another. And we now have some revisionist powers that are contesting that entire system. The core revisionist powers, Russia, North Korea, Iran, are testing it in certain ways.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
China's testing it, I think, in a different way. It's the one country that has the capacity, militarily, economically, politically, diplomatically, to actually... find a way to change the rules, but in a way that reflects its interests and its values, not ours. That's the biggest challenge I see. And that's the contest. China specifically. And China specifically, but over many years.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And there's not a clear finish line. Yeah. And I think the challenge for us, for any American administration, is amplified by this. One of the things, I've been doing this now for 32 years. I came in at the very beginning of the Clinton administration. I'm going out at the end of the Biden administration. And, you know, and it goes a little bit, David, to the business year and so effectively.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Back then, 32 years ago, when I went to my office at the White House, or first at the State Department, then at the White House, I did what everyone else does, or did back then, is you got up in the morning, opened the front door of your apartment or your house, picked up a hard copy of the New York Times or the Washington Post or maybe the Wall Street Journal, and then if you had a TV in your office, if you had a TV in your office, you turned it on at 6.30 and you got the national network news.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Now, of course, we all have this intravenous feed of information, and we're getting new inputs every millisecond. And the pressure to simply react is more intense than it's ever been. And no one has the distance, the buffer, to really try to reflect and to think before you act. At least it's really much harder to do that. The speed with which things is happening is much harder.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
The multiplicity, the complexity, the interconnectedness of challenges is greater than it's ever been. So I keep joking about this, but my friend Tom Friedman wrote a column a few months ago that I love because it said, parents, don't let your sons and daughters grow up to be Secretary of State.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
David, here's what I saw. And you're right. I've worked with the president for more than 20 years. And it's really been the greatest privilege of my professional career, starting in the Senate, then as vice president, and then as president. And do we all change as we get older? Yeah, absolutely. When you get to a certain age, are you likely to slow down a little bit? Of course.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And this is the God's truth, because I was in the Oval Office and the Situation Room and everywhere else in between with him for four years. Whether you agree or not, whether you like or not, I can tell you that every decision that was made, every policy that was pursued, reflected his judgment and his decision. It's not like someone else was doing it.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, I think that's exactly the question. And I believe that in answering that question for himself, he came to the conclusion that while he was doing the job now... It was hard to say whether he could do it in the same way for another four years. And I think that's ultimately what motivated his decision to pull out, to pull back. That's exactly what drove him.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
No, I think, yeah, I certainly hope loyalty because he's more than earned it as the person that he is and the president he's been. But no, beyond that, look, I think if I felt that he wasn't up to the job, You know, that's something that I would have... You would have had that conversation with him. I would have had that conversation. And you didn't.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Look, I think when... You look at where we were before October 7th, and I think what Jake was talking about or writing about, rightly so, were the efforts we were making, and I think making real progress on, to bring countries together, not to try to change the nature of the regimes or the systems, but to try to change the relationships among them, to integrate the region.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
But I saw everything that I experienced myself was when it came to grappling with all these issues, when it came to debating them, when it came to looking at them from every angle, when it came to making decisions, when it came to having judgments. His were strong, his were sound.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
It was. It was. Now... know a lot goes into that um and i think look one of the things that i think may have been missed in that period is this is not something he said to me this is just by way of observation as someone who knows him and knows his um his family well. I think that the impact in that period of time of the prosecution of his son weighed very, very, very heavily on him.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, I just think it was a very, very heavy weight and maybe one that we saw reflected a little bit more visibly in those days and in those weeks.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And the fact is, up until October 7th, we were making good progress on that, building on the Abraham Accords that the first Trump administration initiated, bringing disparate countries together, Everyone from, in one case, the UAE, Israel, India, and the United States on common projects.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
working with the Abraham Accord countries to actually do things together, concrete things that would deliver results for people in each of those countries. And what we were really focused on in that moment was kind of the ultimate culmination of the Abraham Accords, and that was normalization between Saudi Arabia and between Israel. And in fact, David, on October 10th,
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I was scheduled to go to Saudi Arabia and Israel to try to work on resolving some of the remaining issues on that.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Yeah, that's exactly right. Actually, that's exactly what I was going to the region to focus on in the context of normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel. We knew that for us and also for the Saudis, getting to normalization required also having a credible pathway toward a Palestinian state. We saw it as essential, not just a normalization.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
This was and remains an incredibly important question because even as we speak today, even with everything that's happened since October 7th, I believe that there is a possibility, an opportunity to actually move forward on integration, to move forward on normalization, but it requires two things. It requires an end to Gaza, And it requires a credible pathway to a Palestinian state.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I've sat with the leader of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, on many occasions before and after October 7th. And before October 7th, having that credible pathway for a Palestinian state was important. But since then, since October 7th. the price has gone up and it's more than important.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Meaning that I think for the Saudis, let me put it this way. On one of these occasions, when I was meeting with Mohamed Salman, he reminded me that about 70% of the Saudi population is younger than he is. And that's saying something because he's very young. And before October 7th, they were not focused on Palestine, on the cause of Palestinian self-determination.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Since October 7th, they've been fixated on it. And in order for him to be able to proceed with normalization, it's very clear that he has to have at the least a credible pathway to a Palestinian state. And that I think is more deeply felt, more strongly felt now than it was before October 7th. But here's the thing that I think is why this question remains so important.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
First, I've also had many opportunities to meet with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And when the conversation comes to normalization with Saudi Arabia. That's the point at which he sits up, leans forward, leans in. he knows that for Israel, too, that would be an absolute game changer. Because think of it this way.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
The one thing that Israelis have wanted from day one of their founding, the one thing that they've sought the most, was to be treated like any other country, to have normal relations with Afghanistan.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, it may well be, but the point is that to get there, to get to normalization, that road leads through a pathway for Palestine in the context of two states. So he, other Israelis, Israeli society will have to choose. They'll have to decide if that's the path that they're ready and willing and able to travel in order to get to normalization. We can't answer that question for them.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
One of the mistakes that I think people make is to ascribe to Prime Minister Netanyahu all of the policies and actions that Israel's taking that they don't like or beyond don't like, profoundly contest.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And I say that because I think what we've seen in Israel since October 7th is a reflection not of an individual prime minister, not of individual members of his cabinet, but genuinely a reflection of 70%, 75%, 80% of Israeli society. The trauma, societal trauma, is reflected in its policies and support for those policies.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
In our conversations, in the moment of those conversations, yes. But look, one of the things that I... You're laughing.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Yeah, no, I'm laughing because... particularly right now in Israel, given the incredibly complicated politics and coalition politics that exist, I think he proceeds in many ways on the basis of what gets me to tomorrow and keeps my coalition together. And so if he might say one thing to me, and then depending on the audience he's before next, Maybe that takes a little bit of a different turn.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, the point is this. We have been laboring. to try to get to a better place in Gaza, and particularly to get a ceasefire that brings the hostages home, that stops the firing in both directions, that surges humanitarian assistance, that also creates space to get something permanent. As we're sitting here together, we're, I hope, finally... belatedly on the brink of getting that.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And everything that we've done, everything that I've done, everything that my colleagues have done these past months has been in service of getting to that point because we believed it was the quickest and most effective way to actually end the conflict and get to a better place. So in the course of doing that, sure, there are many moments
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
And yet... Simply put, the intent, the intent to erase a population. And that's not... what I see or what's going on in Gaza, as horrible, as horrific as conditions are for innocent children, women and men, who are caught up in a crossfire of Hamas's initiation, that they obviously didn't start and that they're powerless to stop. As horrific as that is, and as much as one can and as we have,
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
disputed some of the actions that Israel has taken. It does not, by a long stretch, amount to the intent to erase a population.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I don't want to ascribe motives to the charges that people are making. And also, look, I more than understand the passions that people feel on all sides of this issue.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
As I hear it, around the world, not just in the region, well beyond, and also in our own country. There is a chorus of condemnation of Israel. And again, I understand why people get to that point, but I still hear deafening silence when it comes to Hamas. And I really believe that if there had been a sustained public vocal demand
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
that Hamas put down its arms, that it give up the hostages, that maybe many, many months ago, Hamas would have felt pressured to actually do that, and a lot of the suffering would have been alleviated. But I really hear deafening silence about Hamas.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
I wish the New Yorker was reflective of, you know, all of our media, all of our social media.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Well, but unfortunately, social media is what... Yeah, but social media, as we both know well, is so much of what drives conversations and drives perceptions.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
It's grown louder. I don't think it represents a majority, but it's certainly grown louder. And to your point, not just voices, but actions, including on the West Bank, more settlements, more legal outposts, more taking of land, more violence against Palestinians by extremist settlers than we've seen at any time in the recent past. But I think what's also evident is this. Start with Gaza.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Right now, Israel has accomplished what it sought to accomplish in trying to ensure that October 7th couldn't happen again. It has destroyed the military capacity of Hamas. And of course, it's dealt with the leaders who are responsible for October 7th. If it stays in Gaza, it's gonna get bogged down there. There is going to be an enduring insurgency.
The New Yorker Radio Hour
Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
By our assessment, Hamas has been able to recruit almost as many new militants as have been killed. And we see that every day in the north, where Israel has cleared an area, And then Hamas returns, Israel goes back. That is a recipe for perpetual war. It's a recipe for dealing with insurgency.
Up First from NPR
Syrian Minorities Fear Retribution, Israel-Hamas Talks, ABC Settles Trump Lawsuit
This is a moment to bring this to an end.
Up First from NPR
Syrian Minorities Fear Retribution, Israel-Hamas Talks, ABC Settles Trump Lawsuit
This is a moment to bring this to an end and bring this to an end in a way that gets the hostages home and finally brings relief. to people who suffered and continue to suffer every single day.