Brian Geisinger
Appearances
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to talking about the... The Charlotte Hornets, who are definitely an NBA basketball team. I can say that with confidence.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think there's a split, honestly, because in part because a lot of fans are restless. I mean, they haven't made the playoffs since. 2016. It's been a long time here. You're thinking Shea Gildress Alexander is still in high school the last time the Hornets made the playoffs. I think there's some restlessness because of that.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think there's also another portion of within that group that sort of expected them to maybe overachieve a little bit either last season or this season in part because of having a talent like LaMelo Ball just going to sort of naturally raise some of the expectations, but
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think a lot of people fall into this sort of category that I do, which is that there seems to finally be a direction and a plan. I mean, for so long, they were pretty rudderless and just hopelessly chasing the eighth seed. If they would rebuild, it was never a full teardown. They'd maybe tank half a season or something like that and still end up with a mostly blah pick.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I mean, so many draft picks from 11 to 19 over the last... you know, decade or so, if not longer. So I think given how poorly they have performed last month
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
think there is some frustration but for the most part those of whom came into the season i think was sort of like more reasoned and realistic realistic expectations they're just happy to see the team like the last i don't know 13 months 15 months do things that make sense for a rebuilding team in a smaller market right so making trades at the deadline last season um
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I guess if you like the John Salon pick from the draft this past year, but just doing things that put them on a on a track to potentially in a couple of years from now, maybe be a team that is sort of like reliably in in the playoffs and has a sustainable roster. It's just it's just, you know, it's kind of far from here and sort of hard to see right now.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah, the Grant loss was huge, and it overlapped with other injuries, which hasn't helped. LaMelo has missed a fair amount of time recently. Brandon Miller's missed some time. Even guys like Cody Martin, who had played in every game up until recently, has missed some time. But the Grant injury was big because they just don't... He has a skill set that is tough to find, right?
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I mean, like a legitimate, solid player on both sides of the court can guard different positions. So he gives you some lineup versatility on that side of the court. He gives you some scheme versatility, including fitting into some of the new stuff that Charles Lee was doing on that side of the court, including cross-matching. at the four and five with some matchups this year.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And he's the one guy in the front court that could like had the combination of being able to shoot pass, um, and, and like set good screens. Like they just don't have anyone else like that, you know, in the four and five room.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And so you knew, I don't know, maybe if I knew it was going to be quite this bad, but we did a pod, you know, the day after Grant's injury or the day of Grant's injury and just said like, they're, they're in serious trouble. Um, And at that time, Mark Williams and Nick Richards were not even back in the lineup.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
So it looked especially dark then, just given what Grant also contributes as a small ball center. I mean, the Hornets have one lineup this season that's played over 100 possessions together, according to Cleaning Glass. That is the lineup with... LaMelo, Miller, Green, Bridges, and Grant as the small ball five. So he was a serious player for them.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And I do think it's important to note, you saw this maybe a little bit more late last season, But when you think about a front court, maybe I would stop sort of calling Grant like a front court hub, but certainly a guy that you can throw the ball to at the elbow, you can run handoffs, you can run split cuts off of that.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
It was really helpful for a guy like Brandon Miller, who's a guy who's a very good off-ball player and sort of like a natural fit next to a four or a five that can pass and set good screens like that. So I think Brandon has missed that as well, even when he's been – healthy and in the lineup.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And just, again, what Grant does, it's kind of funny when you see a... He's 6'5", 6'6", and I think people think of Grant as a guy that would switch around a lot, but Charles Lee was using him in drop coverage and stuff this season, too, which is a little funny when you see a guy that height playing the drop, but...
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Grant can get the job done in a bunch of different ways, and you just knew they weren't going to be able to replicate it. He's a guy that, really the one dude on the team that has proven postseason experience, and that speaks to his playability and viability in leverage minutes and crunch time.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
and now you know you're relying on you know a miles bridges type they're actually using mark williams more as like a pastor in the front court but but there's really no one like grant um to sort of like bring that skill set to the lineup and honestly like my guess would be that outside of lamello and brandon miller and Maybe Trey Mann, too, just given his shot creation abilities.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Grant's probably the third or fourth most important guy. Hardest to replace guy, I would say, probably, on the lineup. He's going to be out. It's a really gnarly injury with the ACL. You just hope it's going to be smooth.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
healthy recovery, but he's going to be gone for a while and there's no real way to, to, to bring that to, you know, to, to replicate that because Bridges doesn't give you the defense. Um, and so, you know, to John Salon's just not there, uh, from, uh, from like a, a viability standpoint.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah. And the one guy that could really run like pick and pop with Lamello too, you know, none of the centers are stretches, stretch options. And again, some of the fours can, can give you some of that, but bridges is well under 30% on threes this year. Salons, you know, a pretty bad shooter right now. So even if you want to kind of get those pop actions, uh, You need it to be guard-guard.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I mean, obviously every team in the league is doing all those little ghost screens and stuff now, but it's just not the same in part, too, because Grant set really good screens, then would pop hard or make plays on the short roll. Yeah, there's just no one that they have that can really replicate that. It was a serious loss on both sides of the court.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And yeah, looking at this, there's 312 minutes this season without Lamello, Brandon Miller and Grant on the court, the Hornets have a 100 offensive rating in that, which is terrible. With those three guys on the court, the Hornets just short of 122 points per 100 possessions with Grant, Lamello, and Miller on the court.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I mean, it's a rather small sample, but it does speak to when they had their two best playmakers and shot creators with their sort of like best front court hub, it was producing an offense that was actually scoring at a pretty high clip.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think or hope it's a function of the roster. I mean, he's obviously going to always be like... Because you were just talking about the usage rate. I think he's hovering around 40% assist rate right now, too. I mean, the usage and playmaking load he's shouldering is pretty ridiculous. He's very good. He's very fun. And he can do a lot of special stuff on the court, but...
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think you've got – I mean, the two guys you just named, you know, whether it's Harden or Westbrook or Kobe, those guys are, you know, tanks. And guys that are really, you know, conditioned – Luca, you think of the guys that, like, really do play pure Helio ball. Like, that's not LaMelo. And I'm probably –
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
One of 12 people that either cover the Hornets or are fans of the Hornets that still really reflect fondly on what sort of the playmaking apparatus looked like for Charlotte his rookie season. And that's when they still had Malik Monk. Gordon Hayward was healthy and good for most of that season. Miles Bridges was coming online as a playmaker. They still had Terry Rozier, Devontae Graham. And...
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Basically, they had like six guys, six, seven guys that could like run, you know, credibly run pick and roll or could bend the defense with a live dribble. And I don't think you're ever going to get back quite to that sort of mix. you know, with a teenage Lomelo. But I do want... I would love for him to be a guy that wasn't having to isolate so much, wasn't having to run so much pick and roll.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
You know, all of those sort of, like, possession numbers are kind of, like, way off the charts for him this season. He's not, you know, a very efficient isolation scorer. It really is just him either trying to throw himself into guys and draw a foul or taking tough threes from above the break and off the dribble. So... Again, I think it's because Miller missed time.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Really, when Trey Mann went down, too, that was such a big loss. He's only played, I think, 12 or 13 games now for Charlotte. He was having an awesome season. I feel really bad for Trey, who was finally getting some shine. Without those guys, it really is on LaMelo to create so much.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
With him out, you should see, if you've been watching the Hornets, some of the offensive lineups they're having to throw out there with Nick Smith Jr., KJ Simpson. They're really strapped for on-ball creation. As good as Brandon Miller is... he's not the kind of guy that can just totally break down a defense. He's sort of still better off down screens and handoffs.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
So my hope would be that there's another lottery pick coming to them in five, six months, and that's someone who could give them some on-ball juice. Again, LaMelo's always, you're going to want the ball in his hands a ton, but it needs to be dialed back. And honestly, I think you would get a more efficient version of him because he's an excellent spot-up shooter defensively.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
several seasons in his career above 40% on catch-and-shoot threes, and he's an excellent sort of catch-and-go passer, and he doesn't really get to do all that much anymore because so often the possession is just Lomelo pick-and-roll and playing out of that.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
It would be nice to see him be able to kind of play off advantage some as opposed to having to be the guy that's always responsible for drumming it up.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah, I guess. I think there's two I would highlight. The shot diet. I mean, he's taking less mid-range shots, which he's making a much lower percentage of them, too. He's a very good pull-up mid-range shooter last season, and I think... Charles Lee showed up and said, we're knocking those down. We're redirecting that shot diet. He's averaging, I think, over 11 threes per game this season.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think 56% of his field goal attempts from beyond the arc. It's a lot. In a way, I think that's good, but I think some of that is a reliance of his inability to get into the paint and really be a guy that can play and finish through contact, which was something that if you scouted him pre-draft, that was going to be part of the hang-up with him, too.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think the passing has shown up a little bit more. And he's always been a pretty good connector in transition. But you're seeing him, if he's able to get two guys on the ball, whether he's curling off of a down screen or running an empty side pick and roll, he's got the height to pass over the top and find the roller.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Or if it's another empty side look, he's showing a little bit more confidence with some of those pocket passes, hitting guys in space. And it's important to remember, too, that the context around him this year really isn't
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
that good i mean this is a bad offensive team there's not a lot of like secondary creation and shot making so when he's out there and if lamello's not playing then you know he goes to the top of the scouting report and that that's tough for a guy who's like really reliant you know on jumpers to kind of like get it going but i think the passing has made a leap and then you talked about their record they're what one in one in 16 in their last 17 games i think um
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
that one win came against the Indiana Pacers. T.J. McConnell almost beat them single-handedly in that game, but Miller made some big plays the final two to three minutes of that game on a few possessions in the first half, too, where Charlotte put the ball in his hands or used him as a screener and basically played match-up ball with him to go at Tyrese Halliburton.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And he, he was very successful against it. I know Halliburton's not a good defender. The Pacers, not a good defensive team. That was interesting to me. Um, because that I don't, I don't project Miller to be sort of like a, that kind of ball handler. Like I like him a lot as a player and a score.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think of him sort of more as like a guy that you want to use off of movement and flow them into stuff as opposed to just having him, you know, go, uh, put a target on someone's back and have Miller go after them one-on-one or in a switch or attack, you know, the hedge and recover. But that was interesting to me, um, because it showed that he's, uh, he's at least a little capable of doing it.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And again, it's the one win that they've had since I think November 21st. So like it, it, it still sticks out, you know? Um, so I thought that was a little, that was a little intriguing, but yeah, if I had to pick one thing for Miller, I would say it's the, just sort of like the steady growth as a, as a playmaker along with the, uh,
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
you know sort of the shot diet i guess getting to a statistically a better place um at least sort of like from a jump shot perspective but still feels like there's some work to go there as well the hornets use the six pick in the draft uh to take to john's saloon how are you saying it tell me tell me your friend i say salon yeah but i've heard saloon too so but i go salon
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah, I really thought heading into the season, in part because Salon had such a... He was pretty rough in summer league, if you caught him out there. It was not great. And obviously, he's really young, but he played in a good professional league last season with Colette in France. I kind of thought he would spend a lot of the season in the G League, to be frank.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I thought he would be in Greensboro playing with the Swarm most of the season, but Bridges missed time at the start of the year, and then Grants missed time, and now he's just out for the year. So they've needed guys that can just play at the four or at the five or whatever. So he's sort of been forced into a role that... It's not super fair for him.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I would honestly say the context is almost as bad as it could probably be for a 19-year-old coming into a team like this that's not very good and really struggles offensively. What I like from him are his aggressiveness. in his anticipation skills when he's guarding passing lanes defensively. I think he can be disruptive like that. I like his length.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think he's potentially, if you could ever get to the idealized version of him, he's a guy that can give you some... weak side rim protection. You could cross match with him too. Again, Charles Lee's been using the four to guard like opposing stretch fives a lot this season.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And then having the five, which is, you know, Mark Williams right now, you know, kind of playing that Rob Williams roving defensive role on the, on the, on the backside. So Salon's a guy with his length and his size might be able to sort of unlock some stuff for you there.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I think the big thing for him though, is like, is stating the obvious is the shot, like the three pointer, the catch and shoot, the, the, the slight movement threes. Um, because ultimately that's, what's going to make him like viable or not. Like, it's cool that he can cut around. He can, he'll try to get on the offensive glass.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
The Hornets have been a very good offensive rebounding team this season. And he's, he's helped there in some regard. Um, uh, But the archetype for him is tall shooter and guy that shoots pick and pops and relocations and flare screens, that kind of stuff that helps, in theory, help open up the floor for LaMelo and Brandon Miller. He takes deep threes.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Sometimes he takes really tough threes, and that's in part why the shooting numbers look so, so, so rough right now. So that's going to be the thing. Can he ever get to become a mid-to-high-30s guy on volume? Because that can open up the catch-and-go for him, and he's got some live ball dribble ability. But it's pretty rough, and I think it's going to take some time.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Again, when they picked him, I thought this was going to be a... I forget, I thought he would spend the vast majority of the season with Greensboro and in the G league. And it would be, you know, a two, three year process for this guy to sort of like be brought online. And he had to kind of get just thrown into the, into the deep end here. So not, not entirely fair.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
And then the last thing I would say for him too, is like, I like some of the defensive upside, but he's going to have to get way, he's just gonna have to get better laterally. Like you see guys beat him off the dribble with the first step, first dribble, All the time. He's got OB top in hips, guarding the ball in space. Guys can just jab step and rocket right by him.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He's too long and athletic, I think, to be that much of a liability in space and getting over screens, too. There's low-hanging fruit for him to get better, but it really all starts with the... with the shot, but he placed like he, to give him some praise. He says all the right things. He loves basketball. He wants to get better. He's super young.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He's got a frame that you can add muscle to in an archetype that like makes sense with this team and in the modern NBA. But you just look at some of the other guys that were on the board, you know, when the Hornets went with him at six, you know, Edie clinging. Um, and I know that they have Mark Williams at center, but just, um,
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
there was some real talent on the board that they passed up to, to draft salon. So it was a big swing, uh, for the, the new front office. And he's going to be one of their first sort of like big player player dev projects.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
No, I got to get some yoga, man. People are running specials. I'm sure right now. So get in there, get some, get some hot yoga in your life.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Yeah. Oh, my God. Boy, this is a little bit before my time of covering the team every day here. Not to make excuse, but let's go with... Let's go with Byron Mullen here. Oh, a great start.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
That's a really good one. I think he was maybe traded that season as well. Let's go. Gerald Wallace.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Kemba's the low-hanging... That's one I should be ashamed of forgetting Kemba. That would have been year two for him. It's funny how many...
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He owns the record books for them. Yeah, he does. All the scoring and shooting record, they're all his. It's pretty ridiculous.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Oh, man. I probably shouldn't go to the dead ball era, but I'm going to say... Glenn Rice. That is correct for one point. Okay, one more. I'll say LJ, Larry Johnson.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I did look it up. I want to make sure I was saying it right. That's correct. Yeah, yeah.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
I know his name because his son played lacrosse at Duke. I went to NC State, but he was in college around the same time that I was there. That's the one reason I know the name well.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He's such a mid-range. He also may not have taken a three until his 11th season in the NBA.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Boy, he's had to play more this season than I think everyone, including Taj, expected. Andrew, I'll let you set the market here and pick the first number.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
You know what? Just because it would be funny, I'm going to go lower than 60.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Okay. Could you forgive me and remind me which numbers have been used thus far? One, seven. Oh, look at the screen. Look at the screen. Can you see me? Okay. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I often minimize the screen. Okay. I'll go five.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Last season. Oh, man. That's a good one. I think he only played four games for them. Yeah, I think he had like one to two 10-day contracts with them. I'm sure he's played more this season already.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Well, there was a time when he was like one of two healthy centers on the roster. It was like three weeks ago. So there was a time where we were looking at the Taj Gibson game log, wondering how this was all going to work out.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Man, other Gibson stops. Detroit, I'm just going to have to guess here. Memphis? Memphis?
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
So you get two points. That's a bad one. I shouldn't have missed Minnesota. That's like the thing. All right.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
That's right. The big handsome. Big handsome. He was like the best. He and Al Jefferson were the two best centers the franchise has basically had since it retired.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Uh, Jared Roden, Jared Roden. Yeah. Yeah. It's been, it's been, it's been a weird season. Um, geez, they've had to start so many of these guards, like one or two games now this season. Uh, I'll say, Oh man. Um, honestly, I, I'm going to go Isaiah Wong.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He hasn't. That's a great one, Andrew.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
He's the one, like, legit guy that hasn't started. All the rest of these guys are, like, you know. End of the bench guys, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
The Athletic NBA Daily
Jimmy Butler Trades + Cavs and Thunder Dominance
Absolutely, and thanks for not offering me a PS5 and then stealing it from me as soon as we got off the air.