Brian Mann

Oh, a thousand percent. And there have been moments along the way that I've had these, you know, real flinch moments when I learned something about this. And I think, oh God, if I had known that a decade ago, 15 years ago, I would have known what to do. I would have had a better vocabulary for this.

Oh, a thousand percent. And there have been moments along the way that I've had these, you know, real flinch moments when I learned something about this. And I think, oh God, if I had known that a decade ago, 15 years ago, I would have known what to do. I would have had a better vocabulary for this.

Oh, a thousand percent. And there have been moments along the way that I've had these, you know, real flinch moments when I learned something about this. And I think, oh God, if I had known that a decade ago, 15 years ago, I would have known what to do. I would have had a better vocabulary for this.

Yeah. I think my brother, Rick, who was injured, you know, working in a factory and was put on pain pills for his back. And I can remember feeling how much of a personal failing it was for him to not kick his opioid addiction, his desire for that and his, he would relapse and he would relapse. And I felt like then at a point I gave up on him. I, that's just the truth.

Yeah. I think my brother, Rick, who was injured, you know, working in a factory and was put on pain pills for his back. And I can remember feeling how much of a personal failing it was for him to not kick his opioid addiction, his desire for that and his, he would relapse and he would relapse. And I felt like then at a point I gave up on him. I, that's just the truth.

Yeah. I think my brother, Rick, who was injured, you know, working in a factory and was put on pain pills for his back. And I can remember feeling how much of a personal failing it was for him to not kick his opioid addiction, his desire for that and his, he would relapse and he would relapse. And I felt like then at a point I gave up on him. I, that's just the truth.

I gave, I said, that's that, you know, he doesn't have the character. He doesn't have the strength. That's not somebody I really want to associate with. And what I now know, Scott, is that relapse is a cornerstone part of this illness. It's as normal to this illness as as, you know, things that you do for diabetes or you do for cancer. You have to expect relapse to happen. It's part of the arc.

I gave, I said, that's that, you know, he doesn't have the character. He doesn't have the strength. That's not somebody I really want to associate with. And what I now know, Scott, is that relapse is a cornerstone part of this illness. It's as normal to this illness as as, you know, things that you do for diabetes or you do for cancer. You have to expect relapse to happen. It's part of the arc.

I gave, I said, that's that, you know, he doesn't have the character. He doesn't have the strength. That's not somebody I really want to associate with. And what I now know, Scott, is that relapse is a cornerstone part of this illness. It's as normal to this illness as as, you know, things that you do for diabetes or you do for cancer. You have to expect relapse to happen. It's part of the arc.

I know that there are medical treatments that he could have had that I could have helped guide him toward. All of that, even back then, was out there and available. And I just, you know, I didn't clock it at the time.

I know that there are medical treatments that he could have had that I could have helped guide him toward. All of that, even back then, was out there and available. And I just, you know, I didn't clock it at the time.

I know that there are medical treatments that he could have had that I could have helped guide him toward. All of that, even back then, was out there and available. And I just, you know, I didn't clock it at the time.

Yeah, and I think about him all the time. When I'm on the streets in Philadelphia or Seattle or wherever, and I meet people who are so powerful in there, and I'm not romanticizing it, they're very unwell oftentimes, but they're also... living real lives. They are real people. They have thoughtful framing of how they see the world and what they hope for in the future.

Yeah, and I think about him all the time. When I'm on the streets in Philadelphia or Seattle or wherever, and I meet people who are so powerful in there, and I'm not romanticizing it, they're very unwell oftentimes, but they're also... living real lives. They are real people. They have thoughtful framing of how they see the world and what they hope for in the future.

Yeah, and I think about him all the time. When I'm on the streets in Philadelphia or Seattle or wherever, and I meet people who are so powerful in there, and I'm not romanticizing it, they're very unwell oftentimes, but they're also... living real lives. They are real people. They have thoughtful framing of how they see the world and what they hope for in the future.

And so, you know, Rick and my dad definitely are kind of along for the ride whenever I'm having those conversations. And whenever I'm really trying to listen, you know, that's that circle kind of comes full then.

And so, you know, Rick and my dad definitely are kind of along for the ride whenever I'm having those conversations. And whenever I'm really trying to listen, you know, that's that circle kind of comes full then.

And so, you know, Rick and my dad definitely are kind of along for the ride whenever I'm having those conversations. And whenever I'm really trying to listen, you know, that's that circle kind of comes full then.

All right. Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me.

All right. Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me.