Brian Schwartz
Appearances
Apple News Today
This agency protects consumers from fraud. Musk wants it gone.
It's been kind of this Wall Street cop, and it's been taking on banks big and small for quite some time.
Apple News Today
This agency protects consumers from fraud. Musk wants it gone.
They ordered Bank of America to pay over $100 million to customers for systematically double-dipping on fees imposed on customers with insufficient funds in their account. And the Bank of America was accused by the CFPB of withholding reward bonuses explicitly promised to credit card customers and misappropriating sensitive personal information.
Apple News Today
This agency protects consumers from fraud. Musk wants it gone.
The CFPB has been a real target of Republicans for years. The Republican lawmakers have been questioning the concept of CFPB's funding, that there's not enough congressional oversight on how CFPB is funded, and that the CFPB sometimes goes too far with their enforcement actions.
Apple News Today
This agency protects consumers from fraud. Musk wants it gone.
So the concern from the CFPB side about Doge gaining access to the CFPB is, of course, that the Doge officials are gaining access to sensitive information, particularly around investigative details. And people, particularly Democrats, would argue that they should not be getting access to those types of things.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
The president posted on X just a couple hours ago that he's implemented the 25% tariff on imports from Mexico and Canada. But then paused them for a month.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
Well, I think they've come to the reality that this is not going to be as easy as they once thought. The idea of throwing on tariffs onto a variety of different countries, the goods coming from those countries, to be precise, is not going to just be an automatic boom to the economy.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
in the Trump administration is that somehow these are going to be revenue builders, that you're going to be able to pay for critical policies such as tax cuts and you name it.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
But it's clear to me that the administration has figured out that in the short term, and they're really, I think they're being as clear as politically they can be, that this may not be as simple as they thought and that there could be some bumps in the road in the economy.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
If you ask the president, he's convinced, again, that this is making an impact. He's convinced that there are companies who are saying to him in private or saying some things in public, like Apple, that they're going to be doing more business here in the United States.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
Apple has announced hundreds of billions of dollars in new investments into the U.S., and that was after Tim Cook met with the president recently at the White House.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
These were a bunch of tech CEOs from Qualcomm, HP, you name it. Michael Dell was put out on social media. He was there. One was that the CEO said, from what we were told, hey, Mr. President, these tariffs that you're proposing and in some cases moving ahead with are really going to hurt the tech space because we make our various parts for goods and services are made in different countries.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
You name it, China particularly. That's a big one. But at the same time, according to the president, these people didn't necessarily go as far as saying, please don't do this. It was more of, hey, we have some issues with this. We are, according to the president, we're going to build more here. We're going to invest more into the United States.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
And again, that's a critical difference than in the past administration because not only are there people not around him in the administration who are willing to take him on anymore, there aren't that many CEOs who are going into that White House and saying, you can't do this, pull the plug, don't go ahead.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
They're trying to kind of meet him in the middle with this idea that they're moving ahead with some sort of product creation in the United States.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
My view on this is that it is, in part, kind of a scattershot economic policy way of doing business. And what I mean by that is, if the president wakes up one morning and says, I want to do tariffs on Canada or Mexico, then this group of advisors is going to move with him to do that. And sometimes we've heard that
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
And amidst this, advisors are kind of not always in the loop on every single thing that's going on in that White House. There are some warnings before announcements are made, don't get me wrong. But then there's some things where there isn't really a unified message all the time, at least in my view, on the really kind of precarious steps on moving ahead with tariffs in particular.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
Yes, that's right. The biggest difference from the Trump second go around and Trump's first term, particularly with trade, is there is no one around anymore to tell him, Mr. President, this may not be such a great idea. Here's why. Yes, they talk to him about the impact. a set of tariffs could have on the markets. But no one is saying, at least from our reporting, don't do this.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
And I think that's really kind of an important point, right? Because if there's no one around as a counter voice to what the president is saying, then all of these guys have to follow everything he's doing. And so anyone in the Republican Party who privately wants this to stop, it's unlikely any of this is really going to change course at this time.
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
I'm not sure. I mean, there's only a small group of people who could convince him to kind of start having more of a straight line in his decisions. That includes Vice President J.D. Vance, Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, his family, and friends such as Howard Lutnick. These are the only people...
The Journal.
What's Going On With the Economy?
that will be able to kind of make an inroad with him and say, Mr. President, it's maybe time to take a different tactic on how we're going to roll out these tariffs. But I don't think there's anybody in his orbit at the moment who's willing to do that.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
In her view, there had to be some major regulator of the banks that specifically represented the consumer.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
Well, it's become this investigative body. So if a set of consumers, whether it's through the court system or through just tips to the CFPB, a consumer can say, I feel like I'm getting squeezed here by this financial institution, and here's why. And then the CFPB can go about investigating this, right?
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
And eventually, in some cases, the CFPB says that they've gone and found out various forms of malfeasance.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
What has been the criticism of the CFPB? That there is not enough congressional oversight of that agency. That is a big one. There was supposed to be this kind of independent arm of the federal government, and they are going to go off and they're going to do their thing. And that's been the moves of that.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
The CFPB, it's supposed to be this kind of oversight agency over financial institutions across the country. Bank of America, JP Morgan, and you name it. And what they're supposed to be doing is really being a consumer advocacy agency. They're supposed to be monitoring and supervising the financial firms for any sort of scams or anything of the like.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
And so Republicans in particular have thought, wait a minute here. If these guys are going to go after the big banks, if these guys are going to go after various firms, we should have some sort of oversight over that.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
What's his background? Russell Vogt has been a longtime budget hawk in the Republican Party for years.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
The two of them have been close for a while. The two of them have been allied on this larger goal of dismantling the federal government. Vote has been extremely loyal to Trump. Keep in mind, you know, when you look back at Trump's first term in office post the 2016 election, Donald Trump reflects on a variety of people that were disloyal to him.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
One of the people he never mentions in the same breath as that sentence is Russell Vogt. And the reason is, is because Russell Vogt has done pretty much everything Donald Trump has asked him to do. I would argue he's probably done everything Donald Trump has asked him to do. And then post the first term, Vogt publicly stayed very, very much a vocal Trump supporter.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
And this idea was that the Office of Management and Budget, as well as the executive authority that goes along with it, really should be route one to the presidency. That the presidency should have the ultimate authority of the OMB, not necessarily entirely Congress. And what does that mean? Like,
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
The OMB is responsible for various budget matters that really the parts of the power of the purse should go through the executive branch, a.k.a. the OMB, and not Congress. And that's a critical difference there.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
And it's similar to what he has said before in other instances where he just thinks that the federal bureaucracy really needs to kind of be broken down and restarted to whatever vision Donald Trump has for it.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
Once Russell Vogt became the interim chief of the CFPB, he put out a note that went a little bit further than that and called for CFPB officials to pause on their supervisory efforts. In other words, stop supervising the financial firms that you're supposed to be supervising. Do not do your work. Stop all work. Stop doing your job. That's pretty wild, right?
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
I mean, you get an email from somebody that just says, press pause on what you're doing and don't move. Clear warning signs that something is up at that agency, that they are clearly trying to do something to it. It's just a matter of what and when at this point.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
So this is clearly a big target, not just for the Trump administration, but for the banking industry at large.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
So the third memo was calling on staff not to come into the office. It said, do not come to the D.C. office because we have closed the office at least temporarily for this week.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
Democrats are up in arms. Senator Warren went on social media to crack right at him.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
The group that's going to be missing in this is Republicans. They control the House and the Senate. I don't see a single Republican raising their hand going, oh, we should keep the CFPB as is. Has not happened.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
know it's tough to say right because it if vote goes ahead and whittles this thing down the supporters of the cfpb would say well there goes an institution that was really meant to help the little guy but on the other hand you know republicans in congress would say we already have agencies who can do this right that they have various entities who investigate the big banks investigate financial firms we don't really need uh a cfpb like this
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
Well, I don't know how much difference there is, to tell you the truth. I mean, I think that they're very similar. You know, Russell Vogt talks about partnering up with Doge. He said that in his testimony.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
We have reporting that Vote and Musk really started to establish this partnership shortly after the 2024 election in November, late November. So they know each other, at least from a distance. And I feel like they are coming from the same world. It's loyalty to Trump, executing his vision. And making stringent cuts to a variety of agencies. I don't really see the daylight between them.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
And for any Democrats on the Hill, that's probably a scary thought, right? Because you've got two very, very powerful people. One is a billionaire. The other one is kind of this budget hawk nerd. And, you know, that's a scary thought for Democrats in Capitol Hill. It is, 100%.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
Yeah, I mean, he said that the Project 2025 won't have much say in his administration, and maybe they don't have as much access as the Heritage Foundation, which who authored that piece, wishes they had. But the truth is, is that there are elements of Project 2025 in Trump's government.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
There is no word of how long this is going to last outside of this idea that the offices are only supposed to be closed for this week, but I'm highly skeptical of that. They say that it's just for this week. Okay, great. What happens on Friday? We don't know.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
It seems it really depends on who you ask. I mean, if you ask Democrats in Congress, particularly Elizabeth Warren, you know, she's going to say, you know, he doesn't have really the authority to totally demolish the agency, which I think that's probably true. I don't think you can legally take out the whole thing. But I don't think there's any laws of saying you can slowly dismantle it.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
I don't think there's anything. But he's stopping him from doing that, which means you can fire people. I don't think there's anyone saying that. Somebody who runs an agency, that person can't fire people. I've never heard of that in my entire life. I mean, so, unless I'm missing something here, Russell Vogt can go in and he can systematically break down different pieces of CFPB.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
If you follow what everything Trump is saying, Trump said that he has authorized Elon Musk to do everything that he's doing. It's the same thing, I bet, with vote. Russell Vogt wouldn't be going ahead and doing these things without the explicit approval of the White House. People think these are like people just doing whatever they want. I'm telling you right now, that is not how this works.
The Journal.
R.I.P. CFPB?
These guys, Musk and Vogt, aren't doing this in a vacuum. They're doing this with the clear authorization of Trump and the White House.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Look, I don't blame him. What can I say here? Here we are again with an example of how a company was actually trying to navigate these waters. And in the end, how can I put this delicately? The president still moved ahead with this anyway.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
I think that for business leaders who have to deal with this, it is going to be over the next few months, if Trump stays on this path, a very, very rough road because it's going to be an expensive endeavor, right? People, business leaders who are in these countries are going to have to figure out a way to handle these tariffs.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
And to your point, they might have to make job cuts at these places to balance out what the tariff represents.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Well, I don't know if it's one word, but one phrase, short-term pain. That is what the administration concedes could happen.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
It did. I mean, the global, it is at least short term. I don't know what he does by the time we get to... next week. But I mean, it's a massive effort to change around how the U.S. deals with, frankly, allies. I mean, these aren't all like adversaries. These are a lot of U.S. allies and how we're dealing with them on the trade front with, as Trump said, very few exemptions.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
So short-term pain, I translate that into significant losses in the stock market, maybe some companies having some struggles with their earnings, and maybe some companies deciding that there may have to be some cuts, job cuts, because they have to figure out how to navigate these new trade waters post-Trump's announcement.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Sure, this could all be one big bluff. He could be using this as a way to see how countries and companies react to him. I've seen that story before. So it is possible that he's just doing this to get them to bend the knee. And within a few days, he may back off of this. But I highly doubt it because this is what he has wanted to do for decades.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
It's a big deal. It is an attempt to reorient the global trade order. I mean, there is no disputing that.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Yeah, the poster was a list of different countries. China, I believe, was at the top. The European Union, I remember the first few. The European Union was at the top. This is what Trump was trying to emphasize. And it was all a list of the tariffs they're going to levy on goods coming from those countries and regions of the world.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
There was a brass band playing behind us, reporters, as the president was about to enter the Rose Garden.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
And at the time, reporters were given this pamphlet of not just that chart, but pages worth of tariffs that the president was moving to initiate on countries around the world. It was stunning because, you know, when I think back at it, I had never seen anything like this before.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
I don't think any of us had seen something like this before, from a president to come out on stage, particularly a Republican president, and say, hey, this is what we're going to do to countries all over the place. It was a really fascinating and historic moment for governance in this country.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Yes, it was. I mean, the thing is, you know, as we were reporting this out, there were a bunch of different options we were aware of coming into this. We were aware of this idea where the president was considering a 20 percent or thereabouts universal tariff rate where a vast majority of countries would get hit with one tariff rate. Then the another option was to do this reciprocal type tariff.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
And so they kind of ended up doing a little bit of both. They had a bunch of countries that got hit with a standard 10 percent tariff. So that's kind of like a universal tariff. But then others, including China and the European Union, were hit with much higher tariffs than that. And that, in my view, is what I would define as a nuclear option.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
That would be basically he went full bore with both ideas, combined them into one, and let them loose at the Rose Garden at the White House.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
He's not entirely wrong about that. We have been involved with some trade deals that have been a little controversial over the years. The original NAFTA was, you know, from the critics' view, a hit on the middle class because it did start to kind of, in theory, force some companies to start buying making goods overseas.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
And so I do think he has a point where countries have been relying on these trade deals that at times have not always benefited the United States and have benefited other countries more. And they have at certain times seen U.S. companies deploy jobs to other nations.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
And he's right where, you know, that has kind of been a detriment at certain points to the middle class and to workers across the country.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
The president doesn't seem to buy the theory that tariffs will hurt the economy at least long term. He might can see there could be some short term pain and he believes the American people will rally around him for that. But he does not believe that there will be an impact on the price of goods, particularly long term. And what he does believe is
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
is that these tariffs, this is a vision he's had for the country, will start to help the middle class that it will bring back jobs that went overseas, that we will have more American-made goods here and less of a focus on imports. That is how he's been thinking for years.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
It was pretty surreal. It was very kind of regal with this kind of blue-collar feel. There were American flags draped behind the president while he was speaking.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
The 80s. He has believed that the country has been ripped off by other countries.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
So he is trying to move ahead with this broad vision of reorienting trade that we know here in the United States. And he's had this belief system for the past at least 40 years.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
I'm not sure if it's achieving the aims. I think—well, think about this for a minute. You know, this is another way to look at it. There are companies that have said, we're gonna come build a plant in the United States. We're going to invest more money into the United States. What they haven't said is we're gonna close up shop and move a bulk of our production to the United States.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
That is a critical difference. The reason I'm saying it like that is because despite the fact that these companies have said they are going to make more things in the United States, the president still moved ahead with the tariffs anyway. It's interesting.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
It's like he's saying, I want more things to be made in the United States, but it also seems like whatever has happened so far with these companies isn't enough.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
Well, I don't think it gives corporate America really much of a leg to stand on. What are they supposed to do? I mean, what is the answer to this? I mean, so many of these executives have gone and bent the knee to the president and have done at least a version of what he has asked them to do. I get it, but... Look at what the White House has been touting.
The Journal.
Trump’s Tariffs Force a New Era in Global Trade
I mean, they're the ones touting these investments by other countries from the president's pressure campaign. Like, I don't know what else they can do to adapt to this than what they're doing now.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
Well, once word gets out the door that these tariffs are going to be coming down on these countries, Canada, Mexico, China, European Union, you name it, people like Susie Wiles start to receive a flood of phone calls from CEOs and major business leaders. with concerns about these policies.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
And the idea is that they're not exactly telling or, listen, we think that they should be completely removed, right? But they are trying to really be very clear that if these tariffs are put in place, they will, in fact, hurt their industries. They will, in fact, potentially be a detriment to consumers because prices in a lot of these CEOs' minds will go up.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
There has been historically really not great results from doing that with the president. And the CEOs learned from this in the first time around. You think back to the 2016 through 2020 years of Trump, when he first started putting on tariffs as a really core part of his economic policy. They tried these campaigns and they really didn't do anything.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
So now it appears that because that failed the first time, they're trying to do this this way in their meetings.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
We have a scene from a recent meeting that took place between a variety of tech CEOs, HP CEO, IBM CEO, you name it. And they were sitting down with President Trump, Elon Musk, and Howard Lutnick, Commerce Secretary. Their overall point is that, listen, we're trying to invest more in the United States, but many of our parts for our products come from abroad.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
So it's very, very difficult for these companies to shift immediately out of these markets because that just historically has been where, frankly, they've been able to build the pieces necessary for their products. These are major forces in the United States economy, major forces in the business sector, and they're trying to have a say here.
WSJ What’s News
Trump’s Economic Messaging Spooks CEOs. Why Are They Keeping Quiet?
And the president's response to them has always been, fine, you don't want to get impacted by the tariffs. You need to start making more of your goods in the United States. And that usually is the end of the conversation.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Defends Tariffs, Budget Cuts in No-Apologies Address
He touched on how he was going to move ahead with 25% tariffs on copper and 25% tariffs on imports of aluminum, lumber and steel.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Defends Tariffs, Budget Cuts in No-Apologies Address
In front of hundreds of members of Congress live on television, WSJ Washington Coverage Chief Damian Paletta described what followed from Trump.