Brianna Wu

Yeah, I think that really brings me into, I hope as we do this, like this is a point I really want to hammer. So I don't know, like we all remember Y2K. Y2K was a problem with technical debt. We made some decisions in the 80s and 90s and we had to pay for it when the millennium came because our computers were going to crash. There's a term for this, it's called technical debt.

The Democratic Party has serious silliness debt built up. And the silliness debt is focusing, even for me as a trans woman, on trans policy and pronouns and a whole bunch of, like there was a clip that went viral with someone like, you know, doing sign language in front of a press conference from this, even though, you know, teleprompters are built in.

We focus so much on these superficial, silly issues that do not make working class people's lives better. And this is what, Batya, you've focused on like a laser in your analysis. Is dad right about that? So, Barry, this is my analysis.

When Trump won, I was really heartened because the conversations I was having with Democratic insiders were very much, how do we get back in touch with working class people? How do we put some of these silly issues aside? How do we get back to basics again? And what is really terrifying me is today as we're recording this, I'm already seeing it just get back to the same playbook.

which is anti-Trump, deny everything, just point out that he's bad. This is a losing playbook for us. So I think if the Democrats— How can this possibly be yoked to Trump? This? No, you can't. It's impossible. But what I'm saying is, like, look at what happened with Gavin Newsom, right? He had a tete-a-tete on Twitter. With Trump, it was the silliness on that.

You don't even believe in climate change. Does this help anyone get their house back? What people are going to find in L.A. as they are trying to rebuild is running into the residential zoning permit issue. This is going to make people so mad at their local government.

And it's like either the Democratic Party can wake up and understand that people like us less than they like Trump, which is honestly scary. And we can change and we can get back to basics. And I think California is a real opportunity to do that.

So my assessment is if we wake up, if we handle this crisis well, this can be a moment that it's a new Democratic Party working together, or we can go back to the same old way of doing business, which is fealty to power and politicians thinking about their next election. Unfortunately, I think the latter is more likely.

I mean, how much have both of you worked with elected officials up close? I want to be really honest. I cannot think of how many projects over the years. As someone who comes from the tech industry, I have a background in being able to do research regression analysis and large data sets, right? Which is a helpful thing to do.

And I can't tell you how many times I have worked with people that I really loved and respected, but you see them up close and you try to get real life stuff done. It's just a soul crushing experience constantly. Like maybe my experience is just bad. Maybe I've just tried to work with the wrong people, but it feels like... I see stories about America like planning to go to the moon.

And yeah, there was politics. But at the end of the day, you had people that were empowered to make decisions to get us there, right? You had the people in NASA were working together. It just feels from my experience like it's so hard for people with good intentions to go into government or partner with the government to get things done today.

It feels like it's instantly about optics and elections and positioning yourself. I just, I wonder if with social media and in this age where we're so focused on how we look, like this bread and butter problem solving ability is just something that is vanishing from the American governmental sector.

You can certainly be at a company and be here on a visa and have a very difficult time leaving. That's 100% true. And I find that I'm like halfway in agreement with you and I'm halfway not. So I'm with you because I've seen companies abuse the system to not pay software engineers what we're worth. I've seen that over and over and over again. But I live here in Boston.

We have two sectors in Boston. It's tech and biotech. My husband works in biotech, I work in tech. And I can tell you, they bring in experts with this system that have experts in like molecular biology or subspecialties, and we just do need a system to bring them here. Like if you look at the coronavirus vaccine, this is an excellent example of this.

Or if you look at the tech sector, we are not training enough people with really deep understanding of AI, ML, DL, you know, these different ideas, we really do need to be able to bring in the very best people in the entire world to do this. So if you want like medium, I agree with you, the system has been broken, but I think if you're talking about shutting it down or like shrinking it entirely,

I think that what you're going to end up doing is seeing the economy shrink. Because when those people can't work in America, that is going to create a vacuum in all these other countries that are trying to create their own Silicon Valley. That talent is going to go there, and we're going to be competing against them.

I think there is a way to split the difference here and address that very legitimate case that you made. And I think what that looks like is the higher the pay, the first you go into the visa system. It's a lottery system, and the more they're getting paid, the more it is there.

And that really would make it so these very rare talents that we cannot get in the United States or we need more expertise on, like drone technology, we can bring them in here. But if you're talking about completely shutting it down, I think I understand your argument. I think you do not understand how much it would cripple the tech sector in the United States and biotech.

See if I can change your mind here. I may not be able to. Okay, so Boston Dynamics. We've all seen the videos online of the Terminator robots, right? Little dogs walking around Boston Dynamics. It's great. It's right around the corner from me. I was touring it the other day. So here's a really honest question, right? Drones are such a critical part of warfare today.

They have been hugely instrumental in the Russian-Ukraine war. But all of these drones are generally manufactured in China. So why does this Boston Dynamics robot, the dog robot, I think it's like $30,000, something like that. Why does it cost this much when a lot of the developmental cost for this is, you know, it's the software for it, right?

It's not like the servos and stuff are that expensive. It's because we literally don't have the factories here to build that kind of robotic technology here. And a lot of these applications, because of national security concerns, it does need to be made locally here. So here's a really concrete example of an industry that we need to be investing huge in for our national security.

There are reasons to build these jobs at home. If I were in Congress, I would be going to Boston Dynamics and saying, you want some free tax money to go invest in some factories and start building servos and all this drone technology here? Great, let's do a second CHIPS Act. Let's do this. It's a national security issue.

But for us to do that, we've got to bring in people from China with that kind of manufacturing expertise. These companies have tried to build these things locally and

and it's just we literally don't have the the kinds of experts in the united states that can go oh this screw needs to be tweaked a little bit for us to keep the the factory going on this design we'll change it and have a new one out this afternoon we don't have that expertise so if you're talking about like investing in america and creating a system where we can have that in five years i'm a hundred percent with you i just think if we're closing the door to that kind of expertise

I think it's going to make it so we literally cannot compete in these fields.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. This is such an honor. I'm so excited to get to know Batia better in YouTube areas. It's going to be great.

We saw like Indian people online, they voted for Trump that, you know, had some second thoughts about it after seeing that backlash. You know, I'm going to say respectfully, Steve Bannon has personally made my life much worse 10 years ago during Gamergate. So I may not be quite as big a fan of him as you are. But, you know, there's definitely this, you know, like both sides have our extremists.

Like, it's just undeniable. There is definitely a racist undercurrent that exists in the Republican Party. I don't think it's everyone. I don't think it's every Trump voter. But I think like if we're talking about the vibe shift, the biggest gift that, you know, the Republicans could give to the Democrats that could just keep the stalemate going is to not check this and not denounce it.

The same way that, frankly, Democrats have refused to denounce anti-Semitism over the last year and a half. So I think it's a real threat and I think y'all need to deal with it.

I think I'm going to get yelled at for saying this by my friends in the Democratic Party, but I kind of support it. And let me tell you why. Because he started that video off Mark Zuckerberg talking about how they made some systems in good faith. and he's found out that they've just been very abusable.

And as someone whose job has literally been to run many a Facebook ad campaign or advise on them or help develop messaging for them, like I've done this, this is literally my job, right? So I've seen firsthand how these systems are abused over and over and over again to report content that is in no way even borderline TOS, but it just upsets some people.

Terms of service, right. So what I've seen is functionally the way these systems have been put in place at Facebook, in my personal experience, is it's just a race to the bottom of which side can cynically attack the other and can mass report it. Like I've seen these groups. You get together in this group. You decide you don't like the blah, blah ad group.

And you're just going to go mass report it. This is just simply the way that both parties have had to operate. So I share his assessment that it's just so broken that for us to have an open dialogue, the community note system is going to be better.

And look, every single sister I've talked to out there, it doesn't make me happy to hear some of the things they're going to be saying about transgender people. Now, it's very hurtful. Like this discussion is not going to be humanizing. It's just, I feel like we've either got to, we've tried this playbook of silencing the other side when they're saying some truly vile stuff.

And it just has utterly failed. Like for everyone, women, black people, gay people, trans people, up and down the line, trying to silence speech is just making our enemies that much stronger. And I think moving forward, it's got to move back to an old school liberal idea. We've just got to have an answer for this stuff and we've got to hit these ideas directly and have a better argument.

Like, what does it mean? Barry, it is so weird to me because I talked to Democratic operatives and it's like they just, they're like these fighters in World War II that don't know that the war is over, right? We lost. We lost. We're moving into a new era. The vibe shift is real. And they're sitting there posting their outrage and saying they're going to leave Facebook.

I can point to like 20 people that I know that are doing this. It's like this is not going to work. It's not going to change it. This is where America is. They want free speech. They want open discussion. They're tired of things being verboten for them to say. And it's just so enraging that Democrats don't seem to understand this yet.

I don't think so, no.

This is what our party needs to do desperately. We've got to work with the Republicans where it makes sense, find common ground. I'm old enough to remember when this is how it used to work, instead of digging your heels in and then Bush 2.0 happened. But this is my message to you, Batya. It's like, as a Democratic operative, I almost hope this chaos happens.

But I think the Republicans would be very smart to put the kibosh on Elon's involvement, like the way he tilted the debt ceiling crisis a few weeks ago, tried to put himself in the middle of the government. Like that's going to be really bad news for the Republicans if that stands.

And I think if you can put the kibosh on this and get some competent people in there, I think we're going to have a lot of Democrats that are going to go the Fetterman way. and are willing to get some stuff done for the American people. I think if it's just the crazy, what's going to happen is you're going to give us the ammo we need to dig our heels in and go complain on resistance Twitter.

It's just going to be like 2016 all over again. So we'll see.

You know, I think it's so interesting because I think, Vatya, you're being a little bit more generous than the Democrats than I would be. And this is what I would say. When I ran for Congress here in Massachusetts, I got a front row seat to what happens with one party governance.

And I think this is it really opened my eyes for a lot of things, because Massachusetts, I think this is a great place to live. But when it comes to some of our congenital problems that we just don't seem able to solve, like housing or public transportation. The problem is the political system, because Democrats are the only ones that win functionally. It's all set up to reward feel to power.

And I think L.A. is this problem on steroids as well, as best as I can tell. I actually flew out of L.A. the day that the fire started. I was out there. And before it, I had a tweet that went viral just talking about how difficult it was to see the city degrade. Over the last 15 years, I've been visiting there. Like, homelessness is through the roof. I saw people shooting up drugs on the street.

Like, it was really, really surprising to me. So, you know, I think you're dead on that I agree with the free press piece when you're saying the core problem is ecological. But that piece also tells stories about people not getting alerts on their phone when, you know, we get an alert every time a senior citizen goes missing.

So no matter what, I think there is a crisis of confidence in our elected leaders, and the trust has been broken that they're on our side. And I think that goes for Democrats particularly.

So where does your calculation come in that Gavin Newsom is going to have long-term damage from this? Because I think if we've seen anything over political history, I think all of us have learned that the American people tend to have short memories, right? So how do you get from A to B? How do you think this is going to—and look, cards on the table.

I'm friends with multiple people that I'm sure are going to run for president in 2028— We've had a lot of conversations about Gavin Newsom and the risk, you know, what his vulnerabilities are. And I do think that there's an opening here. But I'm curious, like, from your perspective, how do you get from A to B? We're in 2028 after four years of Trump.

He's not going to be competitive when he's one of the very best communicators that we have.

Ich denke, dass er hier eine sehr unabhängige Bewertung macht. Und ich denke, nur ein bisschen von der Geschichte ist wert, weil ich denke, dass es das, was wir alle auf der Kamera gesehen haben, wiederholt. Also, du weißt, bevor all das passiert ist, hat die Ukraine einen Deal gemacht, dass sie nukleare Waffen geben wird. Sie werden keine nuklearen Waffen haben. Es gibt einen Friedensvertrag.

Und ich denke, wir alle wissen im Hintergrund, dass wenn die Ukraine nukleare Waffen hätte, wären sie heute nicht in diesem Mess. Sie sind also in diese Verträge mit anderen Ländern eingegangen. Sie haben sie funktional viel weniger sicher gemacht. Bacia, ich höre, was du sagst über den Tonschiff dort. Vielleicht ist es ein bisschen aggressiv, wenn Zelensky kommt und fragt um A, B und C.

Ich denke, aus seiner Sicht, nicht diese Art von Sicherheitsversicherungen zu bekommen, nicht das auszuspielen, wer mit ihm und wo sein würde, ich denke, das ist eine der vielen Gründe, warum er in diesem Schmuck ist, um zu beginnen. Und ich möchte auch nur respektvoll zurückgreifen auf etwas, was ich oft gesehen habe, was das betrifft, dass die US-Betreiber Geld nach Ukraine füllen.

Hier sind die Fakten dazu und jeder kann sich das anschauen. Die Vereinigten Staaten haben das größte Militär auf der Erde. Wir haben viele Waffen und wir halten sie in Depots. Und der Deal, der gearbeitet wird, ist, dass der Kongress Geld anbietet, um neue Waffen zu kreieren. So the United States gets newer weapons, gets better weapons, gets more lethal weapons.

And then we retire our older weapons and those are going over to Ukraine. Those weapons, even if we had done nothing here, would have cost the American taxpayer a certain amount of money to decommission and take apart so people can't use them and people are safe. So I think it is a

Die unkomplizierte Antwort darauf, dass die amerikanischen Betreiber gefließt werden, ist, dass die amerikanische Militär verbessert wird und die Ukraine ältere Waffen bekommt, die wir sowieso dekommissionieren werden.

You don't have to sell me on that. I grew up in Mississippi. And what I would love more than anything, we've got brilliant shipyards in Mississippi. I think we're heading for a hot war with China. I would love for us to double down on funding the military. We get jobs for Americans when we fund the military.

In fact, many of the weapons that this appropriations bill is funding, it actually goes to create American jobs. So if we want to structure that in a way that brings... Wirtschaftsprosperität in diesen kleinen Städten 100 Prozent auf. Und ich verstehe es. Ich wirklich. Ich komme aus einer Stadt mit einer Gasstation und einem Graveyard. Und das ist es.

Also musst du mir nicht sagen, dass Orte wie diese Investitionen brauchen. Ich sage nur, es ist nicht immer die falsche Wahl.

Es ist nicht alles oder nichts. 100 Prozent. Wir bekommen etwas aus Amerika als Weltführer. das direkt in die ökonomische Prosperität für die Amerikaner übertragen wird. Wir haben einen höheren Lebensstandard als Kanada. Wir haben einen höheren Lebensstandard als die meisten Länder. Und das ist wegen dieser Rolle in der Führung, die Amerika aufgenommen hat.

Also respektvoll, die Leute, die uns von all dem ausweiten wollen, ich denke, sie verstehen nicht, dass Russland, Indien, China, sie werden in diese Power-Vakuum kommen. Sie werden diese Handelsverhandlungen machen und es wird die amerikanischen Menschen mit weniger Geld in ihren Händen lassen.

So, Chris, let me challenge you on this a little bit. So, I fully agree with your contention. And look, even as someone that worked 70-hour weeks to make sure Trump was not in office, I find your argument that China is the bigger threat extremely compelling here. Mein guter Freund Noah Smith... Ich weiß nicht, ob ich das Argument gemacht habe.

Okay, na gut, zumindest von Trumps Sicht. Mein guter Freund Noah Smith hat besagt, dass Russland nur eine Gasstation mit Nuken ist, was ich glaube, sehr komplex und wahr ist. Wir sind also klar in einem tripolaren Welt. Russland ist kein großer Weltmacht, wie China und Indien sind. Und ich denke, wenn wir entscheiden müssen, was unsere Front sein wird,

Natürlich würde ich lieber mit China auf dem Ball stehen als mit Russland. Hilf mir, das zu verstehen, oder zumindest von Trumps Ansicht nach. Wie hilft es Amerika, sich auf einen Krieg mit China zu konzentrieren, potenziell über Taiwan, mit Chip-Produktion und all diesen Dingen, die wir absolut haben müssen?

How is that in America's best interest to have this Russian expansionism go unchecked, to have our role in NATO reduced, to have our closest allies like Germany not able to depend on us, to decide to make their own destiny independent of the United States? I understand this argument about China being the bigger factor. What I don't understand is how...

Yeah, I have to say I disagree with both you and Barry about this.

Wenn ich nur Ihre Frage beantworten könnte, Barry, und das bezieht sich an das, was du sagst, Chris. Wenn ich mir denke, was das Moralzentrum ist, wo ich versuchen möchte, denke ich wirklich an die Verteidigung der Demokratie. all around the world. When I think about what I want America to stand for, this is why I think standing with Israel is very important.

And respectfully, you know, this, Chris, is why I think it's important to not allow Putin to go unchecked. If we just basically fold on this and we do nothing about Russian expansionism, I think there's value to what you're saying. It's really helpful to understand our enemies. At the same time, verstehen sie zu welchem Ende.

Denn was ich sehe, ist, dass die Demokratie weltweit weichert, starke Männer werden weltweit stärker, und die Amerika, die ich drücken will, leiten diese Werte. Ich denke wirklich in meinen Beinen, dass Demokratie und westliche Werte das Beste sind, was die Menschheit je erschaffen hat. Es hat mir ermöglicht, ein Leben zu haben, das ich nie hätte erwartet.

Ich denke, das ist auch für viele andere Amerikaner wahr. Das ist wert, zu verteidigen. all around the world. And I think we know, as we're in a tripolar world, if we leave that fate up to China and India, exactly what that's going to be.

Barry, I'm not going to sit here and tell you democracy is going to work for everyone. It is so uncomfortable for me to say this. There's clearly a theocratic project that's fundamentally incompatible with democracy. And that's been really tough for me to see. As a Democrat, as someone that believes strongly in democracy, Respekt vor allen Religionen, Respekt vor allen Menschen.

Ich muss nur die selben 20 Jahre der Geschichte sehen und das anerkennen. Ich denke, es ist wert, sich dorthin zu bewegen. Und ich denke, Amerika hat eine unique Rolle in der Welt, um diesen Anspruch anzuwenden. Und wiederum, das hat uns als eine der reichsten Gesellschaften in der ganzen Menschheitsgeschichte gemacht.

Und ich denke, es ist nicht nur wie dieser theoretische akademische Wettbewerb hier, Ich denke, es gibt einen direkten Dollar, der in die Hände der amerikanischen Menschen geht. Und das Letzte, was ich hier sagen möchte, ist, Batia, ich bin völlig stark in meinem Kurs so in Ordnung mit dem, was du sagst, aber der Ball muss auf die amerikanischen Menschen gehen.

Was ich nicht verstehe, ist, dass wir über Trumps Politik sprechen. Hilf mir, das zu beziehen. Was ist der Mechanismus, durch den Reduzierung unserer Finanzierung und Spenden in Afghanistan direkt in die Hände der the American people's pocket. Because I'm not seeing bold programs out there to invest in America's forgotten economies or middle America.

I'm seeing literal near riots at some congressmen in a red district standing up because the doge cuts are affecting their community. I don't see Trump doubling down and investing on this. So help me get from A to B. How does not spending money in Ukraine directly tie to funding schools in middle America? I don't see a credible plan to do that.

I just want to note, you're viewing all of this in very partisan terms. You really are. My left versus right politics end at the United States shore. I don't care if a Republican is in charge. I don't care if a Democrat is. I just want our country's national security to be safe. And I think this is actually a fairly dangerous view, like seeing all of this in terms of partisanship.

I'm truly sitting here, Batia. Trump won. Und ich finde, dass ca. 78% der Amerikaner hier eine Ausstattung wollen. Ich finde das sehr kompetent. Ich denke, das ist recht. Ich brauche eine Antwort. Ich brauche eine Antwort. Ist das, was Amerika sicherer machen wird? Sind wir einfach unsere Lande schwächer, indem wir ein weiteres Rechts-versus-Rechts-Piss-Match im Ausland bekommen?

Wir sind die sauberen Ärzte, die darüber nachdenken, wo dieser Platz in unsere nationalen Sicherheit ist.

Ich denke, es hängt wirklich davon ab, wie man was er tut. Also, ich denke, wenn man diesen ganzen Zirkus von einem Punkt der Sicht sieht, hat er seine Leidenschaft gelassen, weil er für Alliierten und Sicherheitsversicherungen anderswo sucht. Er hat entschieden, dass Trump kein Alliier sein wird. Das ist fait accompli. Er muss andersherum gehen.

Und der beste Weg, das zu tun, ist, einen Zirkus zu haben. Das ist das zynische Ansichtspunkt. Das weniger zynische Ansichtspunkt, das ich verabschiedet bin, ist, schau, er ist in einer Kriegszone gewesen. Er hat seinen Geist verloren. Ich habe meinen Geist auf der Kamera vorher verloren. Es ist nicht lustig. Er hatte hier ein paar höhere Steuern. Und er muss das bewältigen.

Also vielleicht kommt er zurück zur Bargain-Tafel. He is very supplicant to Trump, like lays down and tries to just get the deal that they agreed to. I think if Trump loves anything, it's when people are very submissive to him. And I think that we get it back on track if that's what he wants to do. Maybe he's decided the United States is not a worthy ally from here.

Ich meine, ich fühle mich, als ob jeder performt. Ich denke, es ist wirklich seltsam, dass jemand, der Zelenzki hat es wirklich maßgeblich gemacht. Und auch mit dem Stress über die Angelegenheit in der Vergangenheit, hat er sehr willig gewesen, seine Beziehung mit Trump zu versetzen. So I think everyone here is performing.

So what I saw was Zelensky, yes, he lost his temper and he knew what he was doing. He was inflaming the Democratic base to go against Trump and kind of solidifying the world, who is not inclined to like our president that much. You know, I think J.D. Vance understands he's going to take a different tack than our last vice president. Be very acquiescent to Trump, really have his back on everything.

And I think Trump, he enjoys being praised. He enjoys looking like the big man. And I think everyone was playing their part here. It just happened that all those parts created a beautiful, devastating train wreck that you could not look away from.

Well, I think it's really straightforward. You know, you have people that made a commitment to their country and to serve, and that commitment is not being honored on the other side. You're essentially sending a signal to trans people that we're not fit to serve our country.

You know, a lot of Trump's language around this was just remarkably divisive and cruel from my point of view, saying that there's no honesty in being a trans person. Yeah, I can tell you it takes a tremendous amount of honesty about who you are and who you feel you are to publicly transition. It's the scariest thing you're ever going to do.

And, you know, I think that my big point with this is not just about the military. I think you know my politics on this, Peter. I can work around the edges and find compromises where I can. But this is my big problem with the Republican mission on this. Right now. I feel so strongly that this fringe gender ideology has really failed trans people.

It is setting us up for lives that are further away from being women or productive members of society. This entire progressive deep hole of beliefs where you're communist and all gender needs to be abolished, it's clearly not making us happy. And when I think about what let me go on a path of success, I think it was growing up in a military family. I think it was personal responsibility.

I think it was valuing my marriage and stability. And what I feel is happening with all of this, Peter, is if you're not giving transgender people a path to normal lives where we can participate in American society and feel proud of our country... I think you're setting us up for lives where we have nowhere to go but this progressive fridge.

And I think you almost can't blame us if we become political extremists from there, if that makes sense to you.

It's execution dependent, of course, right? I've seen numbers estimate around 1,500. And to be really clear, Peter, there are reasonable arguments for this, right? Like if I were in a war zone tomorrow and I didn't have HRT, I'd get up every morning, I'd go run 5, 10 miles. I would have a really hard time doing that without HRT. There are logistical things to think through here.

What I'm saying is there is a political project going on right now with these executive orders towards trans people. And I think directionally is trying to push us out of public life. So on any number of these, I can sit there and go, well, I can see your point. I can compromise there.

But when you add it all together, it's something I think that is really sending a message to people like me that we're not worthy of being citizens. Right.

Well, Maddie, I want to challenge you on that a little bit if I can. I mean, so let's, you know, I think we just talked about how we agree the value of the military is it's a great equalizer. Yeah, you may not know this, but, you know, when I transitioned 20 years ago, there were a ton of military people that were like 40, 50 years old that were right above me.

They all joined the military because they thought it would make them a man and they could get away from those feelings. So trans people will be in the military and have always joined the military. Don't you think that's like a moment for that soldier, like the other way to go, yeah, you know what, this is my teammate and I just need to deal with it if they're taking some hormones now.

Like that seems like opposite DEI to me.

I can compromise on any one of these policies. What I'm saying is like at a high level, 3,000 feet, right? If we agree that for a white Mississippian, right, that maybe has some less than gracious tendencies towards black people, right?

If we agree they can go into the military and that's a good engine for them to see each other's humanity, I just don't know why that same logic doesn't apply to someone that might be trans. I agree with you that it takes time to recover from some of these surgeries. HRT will change your body and your physical fitness and their policies in place for that.

But I'm saying at a high level, I feel like we deserve the chance to serve our country. And I think like if you're asking the military to be their best, to bring out their best selves where they truly evaluate people by the person, I think this is an opportunity. I don't think it's like something to suffer.

Just one thing, though, I just have to point out. This is the exact same thing they say about pregnant women trying to serve. My father, he was an obstetrician in the Navy. A huge part of his job was providing maternal care for women that got pregnant while they were in the Navy. So I hear what you're saying. I don't think transgender people are the only people that need accommodations to serve.

So I think what you're saying is 100% reasonable. I think all of us here would agree perfectly. Women should probably, like pregnant women should probably not be on a frontline combat role for, you know, but logistics, you know, like half the jobs in the military are logistics. I think there are solutions here if we're willing to like think through this that make everyone happy.

And I just, I think it's worth exploring that as Americans. For sure.

First of all, I think this reporting is overblown, and I think it's really important to consider the source. And there's a huge trend in reporting where you've got tech press saying one thing, and then the wider press saying another. So I would just urge people to understand, like, you can certainly download this DeepSeq model and run it on your computer, and it is computationally lower.

There are a lot of questions along the way here, like, you know, where are they licensing that original model from? How are they going to update it? What chips do they need for that? I mean, ultimately, what you really have here is a more optimized process for a limited purpose model. And let me just give you a really specific example. If you're driving a Tesla on autopilot,

It's not that it's figuring out from this massive data set every single time you're driving, like this is a truck, this is a car. It has performed operations to let it figure that stuff out very quickly and efficiently so this outdated computer in your car can identify those things. In the same way, that's the kind of optimization that DeepSeek is doing here.

So I think it's really overblown that this is something that the American tech industry can't come back with and compete with.

Manny, this is where, you know, I'm kind of inclined to give the guy a chance. And I think something, if you spend a lot of time around leaders... Something I've seen is everyone's got flaws. Everyone does. And smart leaders understand how to surround themselves with people that shore up their weaknesses.

Like for me, as I'm doing my job in leading teams, I know I've got to have someone on my team that's really good at detail stuff to help me make sure that stuff is scheduled and we execute on stuff. That's just something I need as a leader. You know, other people, they may be more introverted and they may need people on their teams to kind of communicate a vision, a larger vision to people.

So I hear, you know, Peter, I hear your concerns about that. Frankly, as a Democrat, I share those concerns. As someone that has been sober for 20 years, I think some of the reports of alcohol abuse have given me some real pause. But I think at the same time, you know, people rise to the moment.

And it's not like you couldn't go through this position through all of history and write a book about the good things and the bad things about each person that served in that role. Rumsfeld particularly has some flaws that come to mind for me. So I'm really, again, I'm inclined to give the president the cabinet that he wants, in my view. Right.

Love to end on some fun, Peter. This is going to be spicy.

I think what will have a bigger effect is the billionaire who weighs her name that came out this morning basically threatening anyone that votes against him.

Saying she'll bring holy hell down on anyone that fought him. That's going to have an effect.

I mean, this is stuff usually said in back channels. So that's what surprised me. Not that it was said, but that she said it publicly and didn't call him up. But Peter, this is what really surprises me. And this is what I'm really so torn about on this. And this is just being honest. I had the same opinion on RFK, you would guess, of any Democrat, right? Seems anti-vaccine, seems a little nuts.

That Bayer story was crazy. But everybody I know that has worked with him directly, like seems to love him. Like people that I know and respect and whose judgment I respect. And I'm so torn on this because it's like, well, my friends seem to really be in support of this, but the guy seems like he's nuts. So I don't know which side to fall on here.

I'm with you, Peter. I'm an institutionalist by nature. And, you know, having someone with him, his history comes in. It certainly gives me pause. At the same time, you know, last week on the show, we talked about Ross Ulbrich being freed by presidential pardon. This is very clearly Trump rewarding the libertarians, which showed up for him and put him in the office.

And in the same way, like the RFK vote was a non-trivial part of why Trump won. So I almost think it's a foreground conclusion. Like, there are a lot of people in D.C. that made their bets on Trump, and they're being ritually rewarded now. I think the concern about his capability and judgment, I'm entirely in alignment with you.

I have to challenge you on that a little bit, Peter. I mean, one thing I really respect about the Republicans is I think they dance with the ones that brought them in a way that the Democrats just don't seem willing to do. There are a lot of people out there, you know, Maddie, you were talking about the endless lockdowns earlier.

I mean, there's a large constituency out there that specifically voted for Trump because of this alliance with RFK. Like, when you have a political system where elections are as close as they are here, everything counts, right? And, you know, you have moms out there. I know many of them, even here in Massachusetts, that are really concerned about the vaccine stuff.

I'm not saying there's a scientific basis. I'm saying they have that worry. So just theoretically, this is my pushback. Let's say Trump gets into office and freezes RFK out. Don't you think that's going to spark a backlash with that community that has those concerns that specifically voted for him because they thought he would be a fighter for them on an issue they care about?

phenomenally, overwhelmingly likely. It's bad policy. I completely disagree with it. I think we need to take China seriously. But I think it's always smart to bet on where the money goes. I agree 100%.

I wouldn't say terribly surprised. I think it's like it was a soft, like, I don't think he'll be confirmed. So, you know, I'm not really a betting gal on this. And I also, you know, I kind of have a philosophy. I think a president is kind of entitled to the cabinet that he wants, and I'm entitled to let him do that. I think there are very clearly some issues with him, but...

I don't know. I see some of these decisions coming out. I think inflation is going to make a comeback personally. So I would take it. I think that's going to go up.

I don't think if I'm writing a book, Profiles in Courage, I don't think Schumer would be in that book. So I think if someone is threatening everybody, Senate Democrats, with a giant amount of money, I think he's probably going to fold.

I would strongly bet on that. Yes.

Yeah, I think there's a point of view where he really succeeds at the job.

Well, Maddie, this is why I really loved your piece. And just to give people a little background, you know, if you want to go to 2014, I was one of the biggest advocates of DEI in the video game industry. You know, during Gamergate, we did have problems with the way women were treated in the game industry. And I got, you know, like I talked to Microsoft employees.

like about trainings I wanted every single employee to go through. I talked about diversity initiatives. Intel, I believe, put $100 million towards that diversity initiatives. So I really got a front row seat to what happens when all these lovely progressive ideas get implemented in an industry. And I want to be clear, some of it was really, really positive.

There are a lot more women game journalists today than there were 10 years ago.

But Maddie, and I want to see if this jives with your reporting, when you elevate on teams in the game industry, when you elevate identity to something you really have to think about all the time, what I think it's shown, and there's actually data from Harvard that shows this, is if you're telling people to focus on their differences all the time, two things happen.

One, it kind of changes who comes in the door because there's a layer of bureaucracy that goes along with that. But the other thing is it kind of introduces this inverted hierarchy of oppression. Like if we're all working on putting something together, And Peter, I'm talking to you, and I've got the mindset, like, we're equals. Like, we're all trying to get this done. I respect you.

That's a good team unit. If I'm coming into it like, oh, I'm a transgender woman. I'm a woman. I've got to, like, make my space. Peter needs to watch out to be quiet. That's not going to be a really good formula to get stuff done. So, like, when I have seen firsthand how this has literally damaged studios— killed projects in back channel in ways I can't even say.

And we're talking about a damn video game? Like the thought of that playbook being taken to our military is somewhat terrifying to me, Maddie.

Mary, I want to tell you a story about this from growing up in Mississippi. So Mississippi, people don't know this, has the highest number of people serving per capita. My own adopted father joined the Navy because he didn't want to spend his life in D'Lo, Mississippi, bailing hay, right?

And what I saw firsthand in Mississippi growing up, a state still struggling with the aftermath of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, right? is the least racist people I consistently knew growing up, the ones that when someone used the N-word in private, they go like, hey, don't say that. The people that consistently did that, what did they have in common? They served in the military.

Because it was this thing that forced them to go into a situation where they had to respect people and not think I'm better than you and just see them as nice, black, white, whatever, as a teammate. And I think anything that's not that is just obviously going to get you off missions.

No, I think it's well said. I don't know. I think it's, I keep asking myself, Barry, like, how do we back away from this? Like, Batya, you're talking and I hear you and I hear the frustration there. And it's like, I just don't see those events the same way. And I don't know how we back away from the abyss. It's like, I've got a gun and you've got a gun.

And how do we both put them down on the table and start working to make this country better? I don't know. I really don't. I mean, I know I don't hate Trump supporters the way I did in 2016. I just, I think at some point we're going to have to give the other side a little bit of grace and like assume some good intentions if we're going to survive. Okay.

Well, moving on from January 6th, the next one is interesting because

Sure. I mean, Silk Road was the first real application of cryptocurrency, right? And it essentially made a marketplace based on libertarian principles. It was the Amazon.com of drugs. And you had Ross Ulbricht at the top of it. You know, he went by the name Dread Pirate Roberts and read this site by very libertarian principles.

And you could buy heroin or pot or all these things on it back when Bitcoin was barely a thing anymore. And, you know, there's been a lot of fantastic investigative reporting about this. The truth of Ross Ulbricht that you can read from his own logs is he's someone where power went to his head and he started getting obsessed with his own power.

And the reason he is in prison or got this sentence originally, it's not just selling drugs online. Like, I have a fairly liberal view on criminalization of drugs, said he, you know, hired a hitman. to kill people that were a threat to his business. That hitman happened to be an FBI agent and he didn't know it, but, you know, he was arrested because of it.

I think that, you know, there should be consequences for actions. And I think like there's a real question in front of us right now. And that's, you know, is America a country with laws and rules or are we an oligarchy? And I think that freeing Ross is, you know, a sign of the latter in my view.

No, I think that's he's a hero for libertarians and cryptocurrency in general. So I think that's dead on. Peter, any thoughts on Ross?

Well, there's a real question in federal law right now if I'm a man or a woman. My birth certificate says female, driver's license, passport. I've had vaginoplasty. I've been married to a man for 17 years. You know, socially, it's how people treat me. But according to some readings of this, that's a real question. So I want to jump to a really 30,000-foot view here, Barry.

When you are thinking about why did we pass these laws in the first place to allow people like me the ability to change our gender, why did you have so many conservatives back on the day that helped make this state law and federal law?

And the reason is it doesn't help society if you have people like me and you don't give us a road to deal with our mental health issues and integrate back in, right? We should be able to get jobs. We should be able to just blend and go about our day. Like I've been very thoroughly employed for the last 17 years. I pay taxes, happily married.

I am clearly a better credit to America this way than I was as a drug-addicted shut-in. when I was really broken by this. At the same time, there's some good stuff in this executive order. And I know that's going to upset a lot of my transgender friends to say, but there has been a fringe effort in the last years to legislate sex out of existence.

And progressives have been very successful at that. I don't want an America... where women as a class, a biological class, cannot get the rights and protections they need because a bunch of gender ideologues have some theories about that. There are real conversations we need to have about lesbian spaces and prison policy, and I welcome that.

But it just feels like this is so cruel and so extreme that you're essentially turning everyone in the community creature that does not get dignity and doesn't have a path to a normal life. And I don't think that's where most Americans are.

I think it's a real wake-up call for trans people. I think that's dead on. And that is how I feel, Barry. Free Press had an excellent story this week about Biden's decision to put natal males with penises, you know, in women's prisons, like some of them with a very frightening history of sexual abuse. That doesn't help. It's A, evil. B, it doesn't help trans women like me. We want to integrate.

I don't want that to be the way that people think of me. And the thing is this progressive idea, this what I call gender ideology. It is so extreme that it is literally confusing children and telling them it's giving them propaganda that says you can have no gender if you don't want any, even when they don't have those questions. It's confusing them.

It's putting women in positions where they are not safe in prison. It is threatening women's sports. It is really hurting the lesbian community. And I think there's a real adult conversation that we need to have. If the trans community were any smarter, we would look at this executive order and say, this is a very clear signal.

What we are pushing is not sellable to the American people and we need to change course. It's so frustrating to me that everyone I know is just quadrupling down on the old messages that aren't working. So... I don't know where we go from here. It feels like we're in a deadlock. Something's got to change. I see it. A lot of normal trans women and men I know see it.

They're begging for some new leadership. I don't know how we got there.

But I want to challenge you on that because there are parts of this that really go very far about you. And, you know, on election night, you told me that if Trump came for me and my rights, like you would stand with people like me. And I don't think like I don't want to get into the weeds on passport policy, but used to be in the Bush administration.

I applied for a passport and I wanted to get F on it. And they denied that because I had not had vaginoplasty. Right. So, they changed that. Well, I got that. Then they changed it. Hillary Clinton actually changed that so you could go apply for a passport and just say whatever you wanted on there. That's also not the right policy, right?

I think we agree that there should be, at the very least, you should be on a medical pathway before getting F on your legal identification there.

The problem is if you do not give some trans women a path to just normalcy where we can go about our day, we can get a job without, you know, making being trans the focus and we can just disappear, deal with the mental health issue and go forward with our lives. I think you don't understand just how much it traps you.

Because you only get defined as this one thing by so many people, and they will never let you be anything else, which is why so many trans women just don't talk about this stuff. And it's the entire reason the nut jobs have taken over because the trans women that are capable of having normal lives, they don't go into leadership.

So there's just so many parts of this that you're going to leave so many people trapped in lives where they cannot have dignity. And I don't think that's American.

I do want to say this, though. Like, Peter, I think you're really right that this is time to lead. And I think, you know, I know someone really well who has birthright citizenship. It's my husband. His parents both immigrated here from China. He was born while they were still trying to get their immigration status sorted. And Frank has gone on. He's had a very long career in biotech.

He's helped develop drugs for the country, including he had a part in developing the COVID vaccine. So, you know, I think this is actually really similar to the gender executive order in the sense that I think you're telling a lot of Americans out there, you don't quite count. We're not really sure what to do with you.

And I think like if you're trying to bring the country together, I think there's like a I think there's a cost to saying some of these people are with us and some of them we don't really stand by. I think like if the Republicans are serious, like their real conversations right now is the Democratic Party seems to.

be unable to get a credible plan to fix the party and make us something that can win again. And, you know, from my point of view, I think one of the most likely things is the Republicans are going to self-destruct with some of their worst tendencies at all. I think you've seen some really ugly comments towards Indians coming from the highest levels, towards, you know, J.D. Vance's wife.

It's made my stomach turn. So I think, like, this is another, like, I want... immigration fixed. I'm 100% with your opinions on that, Batya. But I think this is just a particularly ugly thing, especially when it's targeting people that have lived here.

I kind of love the Gulf of America. I'm sorry to say I'm embarrassed. Wow. I'm an 80s kid. I grew up with G.I. Joe. I'm like, America, come on. I love it.

You know, I think it's a politically good move for Gen Z and to make a play for them. And I think, like, if you want to understand Trump, understand he wants to be loved. Doesn't matter that this was something in his administration where he basically initiated this entire idea and parts of it got sold to Larry Ellison. You know, it makes him popular and it gets him attention.

I think that's the reason he's doing this. At the same time, you know, I feel really strongly about this. I think America has got to control our information space. And I think that China having that many listening devices across the United States, I think it's a real national security problem.

And, you know, I think it's really disheartening to me to see a lack of willpower in Washington to take that threat seriously. We should consider, in my view, ByteDance to be synonymous with the PRC. And, you know, Bhatia, like you, I love talking to people when they're driving the Uber to get a point of view from people sometimes.

I had a wonderful conspiracy theory I heard yesterday where this is part of, they're scared because TikTok is telling people the truth about Zionism. That was a great conversation. I appreciate it. But, you know, I think that people may like this. Gen Z may like this. But I think the United States has to control our information space.

So I fully support this ban, and it's really heartening to see a lack of political willpower.

So there is, how can I put this? One of my top missions this cycle was to figure out how to bring a lot of the new tech people into the Democratic Party fundraising space. We've got the old guard that are there, the usual names, they're in the press. But there are a lot of people that have gotten a lot of power in the last 10 years that the Democratic Party just has no relationship with.

You know, we say that we believe in a lot of the same things, but there's no one like reaching out to them. And as a matter of fact, we've actually had a very contentious relationship with all of them over the last years.

You know, frankly, some of the excesses of the progressive movement have pushed a lot of these people away and told them they're evil, they're privileged, terrible white men that are, you know, we all know all of that. So I think what you're seeing here is fairly straightforward. Like the Republicans reached out to them. They built those relationships.

And the Democrats, for political reasons, did not. And I think it's really, really disastrous because I think a lot of these people, if we talk to them, I think that there's a lot that we would agree with. So I think it's a real failure on our part.

That's not it at all, Barry. Like, OK, so with the L.A. fires, there was a clip of Spencer Pratt from the Hills on MTV talking about how his house burnt down. I was like, wow, Spencer Pratt. I haven't thought about him since 2009. That's exactly what this is.

It's Democrats going back to the same stupid playbook where every single day we're going to take everything that the Trump administration is doing. We're going to try to turn it into something. And the impetus here is not strategy. It is moralizing. And the fundamental problem with the Democratic Party right now, which I really want to fix, is we are unable to give arguments about policy.

We'd love to sit on that moral high ground that we're better than you and point out how bad the other side is. So you see this arm gesture. I will just be very generous and say some people in good faith may have genuinely thought that was – A Nazi salute. Fine. I will take you at a good word. Does this really need to be our tactic for the next four years?

Is this what we're going to do is just turn it into a daily clip where we're just mocking the Republicans? Has that been good for our party? Are we stronger today? No, we are weaker than we've ever been. So I just it's so discouraging seeing us do this literally on day one, Barry. Like, why are we making all the same mistakes again?

I think it's so, frankly, offensive for AOC after her silence since October 7th on Rashida Tlaib and all of this and just saying nothing. Just saying nothing as anti-Semitism has become the progressive movement. For her to be criticizing this, it's so—I'm not even Jewish.

And using that community as a weapon to go after your political opponents when you're so guilty of being silenced when it's your own side doing it, it's just—it's disgusting. It's just flat out disgusting. And look, Elon's going to do some dumb stuff. The only reason I don't criticize him every day is because I think my Twitter will get banned. I don't like him at all. I've criticized him plenty.

But, you know, like I think we've got to the American people are just tired of this game. They just are. It's not going to win anything. It'll make some Democratic people who spend too much time on Twitter feel great. It'll build some engagements for some figures. They'll get more followers, but it's not going to win any elections.

Brianna? I think 30 sounds about right for that, to be honest. I mean, I think, no, I think there's an argument for it. Like, I think, you know, like, Star Trek is a hopeful vision for where, like, America and the world can go. Yeah, I think in the same way, like a positive message about America expanding or getting something new, I think that's a good story.

So I think tactically, if he can make that happen, that's super exciting. But it's also kind of weird. Like, I don't even know that much about Greenland. So we'll have to see.

Brianna? I think, okay, I have a prediction for all of y'all. I have always, look, I don't like Trump, certainly did not vote for him, but I've always been amazed because I thought Melania should kind of be a gay icon, and she's not. She is a gay icon. I think this time around. Among certain gays, she absolutely is. Okay, okay. But I think based on that look yesterday, I don't know.

I'm bullish on gay icon Melania for the next four years. Like that hat, that is like one of the most iconic images of any inauguration. It was just absolute, like her cheekbones, like her lipstick is on point. You're just seeing the, oh, it was just so, so amazing. So I'm bullish on the gays embracing Melania this time around.

Yeah, Barry, this really, it brings me to a story I've thought about so many times over the years, watching these cases get prosecuted. And I want to tell you a story about the Women's March back in 2016, or I guess 2017.

And I was out there with a bunch of people, and we were so, I remember feeling so empowered to just do whatever I wanted that day and make it clear I did not stand with Donald Trump. And I remember being out there with a group of women all

arm to arm blocking buses as you know dc traffic is there at five o'clock and people are just trying to get home yeah i keep thinking about that moment like feeling so righteous about what i was doing and through the years i try to think about that with some of the january 6 people that were just there and i think it was like they disagreed with the election

They had a different view, and they were making their view heard on that, like my friend Isabella DeLuca. She's kind of a Christian influencer, and she was caught up with all this. I think there's got to be a way for us to do what we did when we pardoned Nixon and say, for the good of the country, we're going to put these cases aside.

And then also hold these people that like violently accosted police officers. Like that's so far over the line. And those are the wrong cases, I think, to pardon. So I think there was a middle ground to be tread here. But this is what Trump has done the poorest, is find like a middle line that makes sense.

So I feel like it bodes very poorly for the extremism I fear we're going to be seeing for the next four years.

I think it would have been disastrous for the Democrats, just to be honest with you. Like Biden is over here doing something and Trump takes a middle ground that would have been horrible for us. Bacha, I want to, like, just in really good faith, though, I'd like to challenge you on that a little bit.

Because, like, I hear what you're saying, and just speaking from the heart, it was really hard to see Biden taking some measures with these presidential pardons that really felt wrong to me. Like, I understand Hunter Biden, like, pardoning his son. It doesn't feel very American, to be honest with you. Yeah.

Do you understand why many Democrats would feel that Trump is so wired for vengeance that there would be like these prosecutions towards people that would be out of proportion to the issues at hand? I mean, we've seen books by Bob Woodward like Rage. Do you understand why that's a point of view many Democrats have? Like, I'm not justifying this. I agree with you on the optics and the politics.

It's horrible for us. But do you understand why many of us feel that way?