Caroline Fleck, PhD
Appearances
Something You Should Know
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Yeah. So one of the biggest problems we run into, be it with our kids or our partners, is do I respond with problem solving or validation?
Something You Should Know
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okay nine times out of ten when people come to us with an issue they're looking for some degree of validation they want to know that we we get it we see it and instead nine times out of ten what we do is we problem solve so kiddo comes home having failed their spelling quiz and they say i i don't know what happened they're so upset they're crying and our inclination is to problem solve hey
Something You Should Know
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You know, tomorrow on the drive into school, we can review the words, okay? Or not tomorrow, but let's say the next time you have a spelling test, we'll review the words on the drive in so that they'll be fresh in your mind. Or maybe we can get a tutor. Maybe that would help. So when we see our kiddos in pain, we want to change that situation.
Something You Should Know
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We want to intervene in some way to prevent them from feeling that pain in the future. That's a disaster because in that moment, the kid is not looking for problem solving. They just want to be validated. And so if instead I say, oh, you've got to be kidding me. You must be so disappointed. You studied so hard. That's so unfair. You'll start to have a very different conversation.
Something You Should Know
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One that ironically or strangely enough may lead you down the path to problem solving at some point. Because once the individual trusts that you get it, they're exponentially more likely to listen to your ideas on how to fix whatever's going on. So in any given moment, be it with our kids, our spouse, whomever, I try to slow down and ask, should I respond with problem solving here or validation?
Something You Should Know
Seen, Heard, Valued: The Magic of Validation & Pronouns Are Weird! Here’s Why
And that little pause is everything. It really is.
Something You Should Know
Seen, Heard, Valued: The Magic of Validation & Pronouns Are Weird! Here’s Why
Yeah, it's a great question. And it kind of depends on the situation. So we know that validation is almost like a natural sedative. It functions to decrease physiological arousal. And so that increased heart rate and even things like pupils dilating that we may or may not be aware of, all of that calms down. And we start to, in calming down, once we're validated,
Something You Should Know
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Through that process of regulation, our brains become able to process more effectively. We're able to listen better. Our memories are sharper. All of that, which gets shut down when we're flooded, comes back online once we've been validated.
Something You Should Know
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Yeah, that's right. And I mean, magic elixir kind of... These sound like such extreme metaphors or examples, but really... that is what this does. I mean, that is why I am so passionate about it. Like validation revolutionized clinical psychology when it was introduced to the field some 30 years ago. And it did so because it is so powerful.
Something You Should Know
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So I think it is a matter of just helping more people understand the concept when it's needed and how to communicate it.
Something You Should Know
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That's such an interesting question to me because it was kind of new science back in the, say, 1990s. So up until that point, and a lot of this stuff originated in clinical psychology, where you're trying to help people make changes when it's really difficult for them to do so for various reasons.
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So if you think it's hard to get someone to commit to a workout routine naturally, imagine doing so when they're severely depressed. Those are the stakes that we're often dealing with when we're working with the clinical population. So what works in those cases tends to work amazingly in less severe cases.
Something You Should Know
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And it was in the 90s that we started to develop therapies that coupled this emphasis on change, good habits, reinforcement, all these terms that most folks are familiar with, with a corresponding emphasis on validation. And it was once we combined that kind of acceptance with change that things really blew up in the field of clinical psychology.
Something You Should Know
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So I would say that, you know, in the last 30 years, there's been a lot of research and science, but it hasn't gone much beyond that, although this sounds new to a lot of people outside of the field.
Something You Should Know
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It is, again, it is that negativity bias, right? We're wired to focus on what we don't like or don't agree with. But that is on steroids when we perceive somebody to be a threat to us. And so from that perspective, connecting, relating at all feels dangerous. And evolutionarily, we can see why that would be the case.
Something You Should Know
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Yet in everyday life, that very kind of basic animalistic, I'm going to use those terms again, fight or flight way of responding or reacting to people isn't always adaptive or in the service of our goals, our values, or our relationships.
Something You Should Know
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But what I would say for you in the context of that situation, remember, you don't have to hit all of the notes of you're mindful, you're understanding, you're empathizing. At a bare minimum, you can just attend. You can just copy, which is exactly what it sounds like. You literally just repeat almost verbatim what another person has said to you. And the fascinating thing about copying is that
Something You Should Know
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It's an intervention we use as couples therapists in the context of conflict management. So we will have, as couples are arguing, I might tell one partner to write down exactly what the other person is saying. Okay, and I want you to just repeat it back to them. Don't add your interpretation, don't give your rebuttal, just restate what they have said.
Something You Should Know
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And then I will have them switch places so the speaker becomes the listener and vice versa. Let me tell you, that is one of the most powerful interventions. And I was shocked by that. I did not want to, I thought this sounded very contrived when I was trained in this method. But there is something about just being heard.
Something You Should Know
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And the fascinating thing about using those basic skills is that they actually foster understanding and empathy. Copying in particular, we know functions to help us feel through mirror neurons some of what the other person is feeling. And in so doing, we start to empathize and perhaps understand empathy.
Something You Should Know
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Thank you so much. Have a great one.
Something You Should Know
Seen, Heard, Valued: The Magic of Validation & Pronouns Are Weird! Here’s Why
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Something You Should Know
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Yeah, so validation just communicates that you accept and see the validity in another person's experience. It's a way of showing that you're there, you get it, and you care.
Something You Should Know
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Such a good question. Yes. In fact, I would argue that these are some of the most important times to validate someone. Validation consists of some degree of being mindful, of understanding, and empathizing with the other person. But you don't have to hit all of those notes. If you can just be mindful, if all you can do is attend, that in and of itself can signal some degree of validation.
Something You Should Know
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It shows that you are engaged, that you are being nonjudgmental, that you are accepting what you are hearing. That is different, very different from saying that you agree with what you are hearing or what the other person's position is.
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Yeah, I think it even goes beyond that, actually. If we really want to be effective in challenging somebody else's perspective, we cannot get there if we open with disagreement. And I learned this kind of I had a crash course in this through my work as a therapist where you're working with folks who have extremely distorted thoughts, oftentimes to the point of like delusion.
Something You Should Know
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And I have to help that person change how they're thinking. But in order to do so, I need a foot in the door. And so I have to be able to communicate some degree of acceptance. And that is what validation allows me to do.
Something You Should Know
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Validation is the single most important quality of any relationship. It is as important as love. It is as central as empathy. And yet we rarely talk about it in those terms.
Something You Should Know
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Validation is the single most important quality of any relationship. It is as important as love. It is as central as empathy. And yet we rarely talk about it in those terms. But if one does not feel seen or accepted by another, it is very hard to have an intimate, close, trusting relationship with that person.
Something You Should Know
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So I often think of validation as like the skeleton key, not just the key to change or the key to connection, but the skeleton key in that it fosters connection in all sorts of different relationships, in all sorts of different contexts. So it really is that critical.
Something You Should Know
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Yeah, so validation can take all sorts of different shapes. Sometimes it's something you say. Sometimes it's something you do. But some examples would be saying something to the effect of, well, anybody in your shoes would want a second opinion. You know, after perhaps a friend tells you that they don't like their doctor and aren't sure about the advice they're getting.
Something You Should Know
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If you were to say, yeah, anyone in your shoes would doubt that. I would get a second opinion too. That's validating. It shows that there is validity in the person's perspective, that they are not crazy for thinking or feeling whatever they're thinking or feeling.
Something You Should Know
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We confuse it with agreement. We worry that in validating some part of a person's experience, we will communicate that we agree with them. And that is not the case. So I'll take an extreme example of, say, working with a paranoid schizophrenic, as I have in the past, you know, read their mail and sabotage them. I do not believe, I do not agree with that thought process.
Something You Should Know
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However, if I was thinking those things, I sure as heck would not trust this therapist. I would withdraw. I would not feel comfortable speaking to them. So if as the therapist, I say, listen, it makes total sense that you are distrustful of me. I understand that you think X, Y, or Z. I can see if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to open up either.
Something You Should Know
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So with that, what I'm doing is really just validating that person's emotions. Given what they are thinking, their emotions make sense. I can focus on that part of their experience, validate that, just the emotions. In so doing, I am not in any way validating their thoughts, i.e.
Something You Should Know
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communicating that I think it's logical or that I agree with the rationale, nor am I necessarily validating their behavior. which is another thing we get worried about doing. So it allows me to narrow in on what is valid, what is the kernel of truth in another person's perspective. Because instead, what we tend to do is focus on what we don't like or what we disagree with.
Something You Should Know
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That is our innate negativity bias. Validation forces us to do the opposite. It forces us to find and speak to the validity.
Something You Should Know
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I'll give a really personal example, if that's okay. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and actually right after completing the book. And I had to do the whole gamut of treatment, you know, mastectomy, radiation, chemotherapy. And in that process, I lost my hair. And my daughter has felt that I am not the same person since I lost my hair.
Something You Should Know
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as though almost like there was like a body swap situation. Like I am a fundamentally different person. I am not the mom that she knows. This has been obviously incredibly painful for me. I don't agree. I see some ways in which I've changed, but I love her dearly. I am still her mother. And I have worked so hard this past year since I've been in recovery to rebuild that relationship with her.
Something You Should Know
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And we've gotten into such a better place. And just the other night we were cuddling and we were just having this really intimate moment. She was saying how she'd missed me throughout the day. And then she said, mom, could you just be the old you for just a minute? Could you just try and be the old you? And it was like a dagger to my heart, right?
Something You Should Know
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It's just, oh, God, this disease has just, it just feels like it's taken so much. And in that moment, what I want to do is say, I am the same person. Honey, I'm here. I'm your mom. I love you. But what probably needs to happen there, what I know needs to happen there, is for her to feel validated.
Something You Should Know
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And in that moment, I'll be honest with you, it hurts so bad that I found myself saying, no, baby, I am your mom. I am your mom. I don't know how to change to convey that. And in that moment, I immediately realized I didn't validate her. She shut down. Okay. She did not feel seen or appreciated.
Something You Should Know
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heard and so what i needed to do was circle back around with her the next night as i did and say last night i shouldn't have jumped in there and said insisted that i'm your mom i know this has been really really painful for you and nobody else sees what you're seeing that must feel really lonely and i i I get it. It's almost like mourning someone, right? Except you're the only one who sees that.
Something You Should Know
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That must be really scary. And in that conversation, there was so much tenderness, so much opening up, and we were able to reconnect. And so that, I think, is the power of validation. That's what it looks like when we're confronted with things that we really don't like and we see so much wrong with.
Something You Should Know
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we're forced to attend instead to the person behind those beliefs or those statements or whatever the case may be.