Charlie Webster
Appearances
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So it's interesting that you said, were there any close calls? And I'm glad you asked that question because maybe I didn't get that across that actually Amanda didn't know about this. And she did know that Nancy was looking into her. And then... When I came in, I started to look at this and Amanda didn't know about what I was thinking of doing. And at the time I was like, OK, is this a podcast?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
The conflict in my head of whether this was real or not, because I could see pictures of Amanda with tubes actually in, lying in hospital beds in her arms, in a wheelchair holding a balloon with a smiley sunflower face. Like, how could this be fake? They weren't
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Is this a documentary? What even is this? And then when I went to Amanda's sentencing, I'd read everything.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Nancy had done and I'd read all of Amanda's blogs and I'd spoken to a few different people that Nancy hadn't spoken to and just kind of tried to bring my own perspective and keep it in my own head and at my own more neutral point of view and then at the sentencing I did actually approach Amanda and
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
afterwards and you'll see it in episode 4 of the TV docuseries and it's in the very end of the podcast as well and I told Amanda that I was looking to make a story about what had happened and I introduced myself and I gave Amanda my contact details and I said I'm not here to
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
judge you I'm not going after you but I'm looking to tell this story and so Amanda knew and that was really important for me it's not about like you know I know you might all think oh maybe I'm being too soft but and we did have that question about me being too neutral but how could I bring you
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Amanda's perspective or the Amanda's why or how or was she sorry is she a complete monster or is she a very complicated person so all these things that it was important for me to tell Amanda what I was doing um so she also had an opportunity to talk to me um so actually Amanda knew about Nancy and then she knew about me from pretty much the off really good question and
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Moving on to the next question, user 73768. I was really disappointed that we didn't get to hear more from Jessa in the podcast and then again in the docuseries. She was such an integral part of the story and it seemed like she was kind of pushed to the side in the greater retelling of it. Oh, yes. And I'm not being yes about Jessa, I'm being yes. Thank you, user 73768.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Because now I can explain why. Jessa was not pushed to the side. This was Jessa's choice. So she's not in the docuseries because Jessa didn't want to be. And it's really important that we, I, I'll say I because I can only speak for myself, honour that. Jessa is somebody that went through huge trauma. She was lied to. She was betrayed. But don't forget she was a kid. She was a child.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
She was a minor. This is somebody that was raised and she spent her childhood thinking that her once friend, initially Amanda was her friend because Amanda came into Jessa's life through Jessa's older sister, Jamie, and they spent time together with this 17-year-old Amanda that came into the family home. And she was her friend. And then Amanda became Jessa's stepmom.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
fake pictures they weren't AI they weren't photoshopped they were real pictures and then if you look at all the writing with her blog it was so detailed and well you know what I do for a living I tell stories I'm a journalist I know what a good storyteller is and Amanda's a good storyteller but she was also really explicit in her blog she talked about like
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Welcome to this special episode of Scamander. It's me, Charlie Webster. I think you know me by now. I'm your host. Now, whether you've been with us from the start or you're just tuning in after watching the docuseries on ABC and Hulu, I'm really glad. that you're here, I can't wait to dig into things. The show really would not be the success it is without you.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And Jessa thought that Amanda had cancer. She lived in that household. She saw it with her own eyes. I never forget one thing that Jessa said to me was she felt guilty because she had
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
free tennis lessons or she had free sports activities or free free tickets for things and Jessa thought that that was obviously because Amanda had cancer and people were just trying to give and be supportive and help as people should um and Jessa felt guilty about that and obviously she absolutely shouldn't but she felt like well I was part of that so if you think about
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
what this has been like for jessa and the impact on her mental health and how can she trust adults she was a child that had adults around her lie to her and so she felt like it was really important for her to share her story and to share her perspective to share the impact it's had on her but once. So I don't want anybody to think that she was pushed to the side.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
It was what she felt she could give. And that was absolutely enough. Next question, Ophelia underscore quest. Were you ever able to get more backstory on Amanda's relationship with her mother, Peggy? Where was she the whole time? Are they close now? I would imagine that the relationship helped mold Amanda into the kind of person who could so easily lie and steal from the people closest to her.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
You know, that's one of the early questions I had as well. I can't 100% answer that. I'm really sorry, but I'm not going to lie and, like, everything I say is the truth and what I know. And I did try and contact Amanda's family, but they didn't want to be part of the podcast or the TV show. I have had a little bit of contact, and I do know that...
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Peggy, Amanda's mom, is supporting Amanda now through her prison journey and serving her time. And I also do know that when Amanda was younger, there was a pattern of behavior of seeking approval of adults and not really peers. This was from several people's testimony. She was less interested in like her friends liking her. But wanting the adults to like her.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I really did dig into the family and there was nothing that I could find. People just said that they were just the normal middle class family. And there was nothing irregular about the father or the mother. And so I really did try and dig into that to see if that was a perspective.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And according to Amanda, I've asked Amanda, and she wanted it explicitly said that her family were not involved in this. And it's actually at the end of the documentary in episode four, at the very, very end, that was actually something that Amanda told me. And so we made that decision to put that out there on the TV show because Amanda wanted to make that clear that her family were not involved.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So... It's up to you all to decide what you all think. How about we zoom out a bit now? A lot of you have asked, what does Amanda's story say about our society? Or how can we protect ourselves from scams like this? It's a hard one, right? Because I feel like, sadly, there are a lot of people that do manipulate people. And there's manipulation in social media now, families, friendships, and...
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
pd1 trial katruda which is immunotherapy drug and i hadn't even heard of katruda before i started reading amanda's blogs and she talked about ct scans she used language that was so specific to illness to cancer i even saw a doctor's appointment which had confirmation of blood transfusions a doctor's letter medical bills How can this be fake? Then there was testimony. I started to speak to people.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
people's personal life. But I think one takeaway for me is how crucial it is to ask questions and to dig deeper when something doesn't feel right. And it's not about being cynical. It's just about being informed and listening to your instinct. And I think there's so many times, I mean, I've I've done it in my life where I'm like, you know what? I just knew and I felt it and I just didn't listen.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But don't walk around being like, oh, I'm skeptical of that person. I'm skeptical of that person because that's not a nice way to live as well. Okay, let's move on to the questions. So user 475963, watching this story unfold, I couldn't help but notice how ironic it all was. Here's a woman who was praised in her church as being this godly person,
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But in reality, she was a mortal sinner, knowingly lying and stealing from her neighbors. It made me really question how much of Amanda's character was even real. Was she truly religious or do you think she just aligned herself with the church because she knew they'd be more likely to trust and support her? Hmm, that's good. Can it be both? I wonder if the answer is both.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So I wonder if Amanda might think she's religious and has faith and has God in her heart, but also used the church. Because I think that you can convince yourself of something and sometimes then you can actually use...
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
faith in like a cognitive dissonance way right okay hear me out so you can feel that you have faith but then behave badly and then use the fact that you have faith or that you go to church as an excuse for behaving badly and I think we actually see that quite a lot once you stand on a church stage there's more of an automatic trust and a belief and a credibility because the church are putting you
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
on that stage. And anywhere where there's a position of power, unfortunately, you know, whether it's now with social media or whether it's like a hundred years ago, those positions of power were used to repress people and to manipulate people. So I think it's like as old as time, really. And you can think you're religious, but not act on it. So, avmill, next question, underscore 17.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I'm in no way trying to excuse how horrible Amanda is by asking this, but has anyone been able to confirm or deny if she has Munchausen's? I know she was obviously scamming people, but it also feels like she really craved the attention, like being the centre of everything. Isn't that something people with Munchausen often do?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
This is something that's come up a lot and I've thought long and hard about because I didn't include it in the podcast and a few people questioned me about that and the reason why I didn't include it in the podcast is because I can't diagnose Amanda and she hasn't been diagnosed with anything. She hasn't been diagnosed with fictitious or Munchausen's so I can't just
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
put it in there and say that she has. And for me as well, I didn't want to take away from the experience of victims and the story. And so mental health, I absolutely agree, is not an excuse. I really do understand mental health. I'm not a doctor, but I have studied psychology and I have got my level one schema therapy. And I've written a book about trauma called Why It's Okay to Talk About Trauma.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And I've had a lot of trauma. And I think you're absolutely right when you said, I'm not trying to excuse, but it is interesting whether she has or she hasn't. But mental health is never an excuse for anything. There's still accountability for actions, right? So yes, psychological conditions may lead to manipulative behavior like compulsive lying or lack of empathy.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But millions of us have mental health struggles and would never do what Amanda did. So I think it's really important to recognize that there's still a choice. her actions weren't about an illness, they're about control, deception, and personal gain and personal attention. And so I do know that Amanda has not been diagnosed with fictitious disorder or Munchausen's or anything else.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But those two things were mentioned in some court papers where Amanda asked for early leave for extraordinary circumstances, but they weren't mentioned in terms of a diagnosis, they were mentioned in terms of If she does and if she doesn't. I also know that Amanda has participated in mental health counselling and it was also part of her probation. And I also do want to make sure that I say that
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
People are saying to me, no, no, Amanda fainted. I saw her. I saw her being taken off in an ambulance. This was somebody who was not just lying, but actually lying. acting out as if she actually had. And Amanda's also a great speaker. She spoke on stage in church. She spoke in cancer groups. She's captivating and she was representing hope and trust in her community.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I think sometimes you can double down on lies. So think of it as in like a white lie that you might tell and then somebody questions you about something else that's integrated to that lie and then you'll lie again so that they don't find out about your white lie and then you have to lie again because somebody else has spoken about that and then you have to lie again.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And I know that sounds like so basic and so low level compared to somebody faking cancer but But it is a similar pattern and I think it becomes very addictive and then it's very, very hard to get out of your lie. And I do think that was also very much a part of this. And the other thing I would also say is that manipulation isn't just external. You can manipulate yourself.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And people don't always see themselves as bad people or villains and they can create their own narrative without facing the full weight of their own deception. It's really fascinating, right? The psychology of this. I hope that answered your question. I know it's a bit of a difficult one, but it's really great to be able to discuss that.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So if you've finished episode four of the docuseries, you know I've been in touch with Amanda while she's been in prison and before she actually turned herself in too. And of course, the big question is, what's Amanda up to now? She has been released from prison proper. I don't know whether I made that word up, but I like it. Prison proper. But she's still serving her sentence.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
She was released early January. And she's now in like a kind of like a halfway house where she's still got very tight restrictions and just have permission to get out. She has different programs and schooling and things like that. The latest release date is the end of 2025. I suspect that will be a little bit earlier. Yeah. So let's get to your questions then. Mountain Muse underscore 90.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I don't believe for one second that Corey didn't know. Amanda mentioned multiple times that she was undergoing big procedures or staying in the hospital for extended periods of time. How could anyone that close to her not having noticed something was majorly off... Was he not faking legal documents, helping manage the money? Did they not have a joint bank account?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
How could there possibly not have been enough evidence to convict him? Mountainmuse underscore 90, your questions are everybody's questions, let me tell you that. And they were also my questions when I was making the podcast and... building this story and investigating everything.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I do know that Corey did say under oath that he went to all of Amanda's doctor's appointments and hospital appointments and that there was accusations that his wife didn't have cancer and he went to all her appointments. He said that under oath and bankruptcy was claimed and Amanda's medical bills were part of that.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And obviously there weren't medical bills for cancer, but I did see medical bills for other things. And if you turned the page over, there was a change of number if you held it to the light. In terms of the police, the police investigated everything to do with this case and And it went to the IRS.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
She's a young mother of two with cancer. Like, who questions that? Because even when she did get caught... people still believed her. And it was really interesting because I'm like, well, who's going to be the person that says that this woman doesn't have cancer? And that's when, you know, we now know that Lisa was the anonymous tip to Nancy.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And because the law is adversarial, you need tons of evidence, obviously, to convict somebody of anything. And Amanda was lying about having cancer. Lying isn't against the law. So what eventually happened was Amanda was convicted of wire fraud, not everything else. So the wire fraud was the money going to Amanda's support fund. Amanda.com website and to Amanda.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So for the police and for the law, that was why and how they convicted Amanda and not Corey. I did have conversations with Detective Martinez and I do know that they looked at this case as a collective with Amanda and Corey. But again, it was all about the IRS convicting Amanda and that was the only way that they could stop her. because lying isn't against the law.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Hopefully I answered your question with what I just told you about Corey saying under oath that he went to Amanda's hospital appointments. The next question, Penn Poppy, was Amanda and Corey's, in brackets, unorthodox relationship history ever brought up in the court proceedings? It seems insane that everyone in their lives glossed over the fact that they had met when she was only a teenager.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Okay. Okay. Let's dig into this. So I didn't gloss over it, but you also have to be careful in making accusations, right? So they did meet when Amanda was a teenager. Amanda was 17 when she was going into Corey and Alita's home. Corey and Alita were together at the time.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Amanda, I remind you, was brought in to help with Jamie, who is Jessa's older sister, Alita's older daughter, because she was in recovery from cancer. What I do know is that Corey did go to Amanda's graduation, but Amanda and Corey did not get together.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
when Alita and Corey were still together Alita and Corey split up and they got divorced nothing to do with Amanda there was still a custody battle ongoing and then Amanda got together with Corey when she was 24 and he was 33 so I don't think it was glossed over it's just that like that's about all we can really say on it is just give the facts and then you can decide what you think about that
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
JJHoward11, it's over to you. So, if Amanda loves attention, won't this fuel more of this fire with the documentary being out? Do you know how she feels about this docuseries? It's a really good point. It's something I thought about as well because I'm like, oh my God, am I giving people a platform? They shouldn't have a platform. I definitely ask myself these questions in my head.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I want you all to know and check myself constantly. And I don't think it will... Fuel the fire because Amanda didn't want to be part of the podcast and she didn't want to be part of the TV docuseries. For me, if somebody really wanted that attention, wouldn't you be in part of both the podcast and the TV show? I don't know. That's just me putting a question out there.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I was in touch with her while she was in prison and I told her that the docuseries was being made and that the podcast was going to be turned into a TV show. I asked her if she wanted to be on it, you know, and if she felt sorry, whether she would say that to her victims. This is not me telling her like this is just in my head. Right. And so she didn't want to be part of that.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
She felt it was more important to serve out her sentence and pay for what she's done. And then think about that down the line. And she told me that she is sorry and she regrets it every day. And I don't get the impression that she's happy that this is a TV docuseries. And I know that she was very concerned about it and what everybody's saying about her. So I think no matter who you are,
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And like, how could you be that person that got this wrong? And when I was looking through everything, to me, the evidence pointed to somebody that did have cancer and not that was faking it. That's how subtle everything was. So to kind of list off how Amanda did it, It was emotional exploitation, using sympathy and compassion, our natural instinct to help and protect people.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Even if you love attention, maybe attention where everybody's saying how much of a monster she is and how cool she is is not what anybody would want. That's just my opinion. But I need to say, because I did get asked that a few times, that she is not profiting from the podcast or the TV docuseries. Amanda is not getting money for any of this. So let me scroll down. What's the next one?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So many questions. It's so good. I love doing this and I love talking to you and I really appreciate... Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And it's really difficult for anyone to doubt that because to doubt that you'd feel really guilty, right? I think also like don't underestimate the power of repetition and public performance because there was constant consistency in her lies. There's so much to get through. I'm just flicking through all these questions. So let's get straight into things with the first question. Here we go.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So veil of echo underscore 779. How is it possible that no one caught on? I'm no medical professional, but even the at home clinical trial alone seems like it should have been enough to set off some alarm bells. Like did none of her readers happen to be doctors, nurses or health professionals? Or were they just too scared to call her out? It seems hard to believe.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
You know what I would say to that is like hindsight is 20-20. Because when I'm making a story like this, when I was making Scamander, I'm like, I started to gather all the information and you become this person that knows everything. But then at the same time, I've got to make sure that I look at things like, well, was it hard to believe that people didn't know?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Or was Amanda so subtle and so clever in her lies and manipulation that you didn't?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
wouldn't know and there actually was somebody that was in Amanda's life who is a nurse and he actually features in the docuseries on TV he's not in the podcast because when I approached him at the podcast him and his family were just so traumatised they just felt like they couldn't get their heads around it and then when they listened to the podcast they realised the extent of everything that happened and then reached out to me and started to share their story post podcast which sometimes happens when you put these stories out and
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I'm so grateful to all of you, you devoted fans. So I'm doing what you've all begged me to do for so long and I'm so grateful I've got the opportunity to do it. I'm opening up the mailbox, which is huge, and answering all your burning questions. I really hope we can have a great intimate conversation.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
He didn't read the blog because why would he? Because Amanda was in his life. So for him, he didn't need to read the blog because he saw Amanda. He saw her at church. They saw each other personally. And he was just being there as a friend. He didn't read the blog. And I didn't know that you couldn't give Catruda at home. Like, do you? Like, I'm not a medical professional.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So I had to research that. And then you can actually give some immunotherapy at home. So then I was like, OK, is there a possibility that this is a new trial? Like, we've got it wrong. So it's like being really detailed and making sure. And I question, question, questioned that over again. And to be honest, at first glance, I don't think you'd question anything.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
This is someone people knew and they saw it with their own eyes. So why would you question it from a blog post? Because they saw Amanda with a shaved head. They saw Amanda upset, cry, ill, sick, in tears, talk about her situation. It was acted out perfectly. Next question. This is Lark Dunn, 86.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I still cannot wrap my head around how Amanda was able to waltz into hospitals so frequently and gain access to hospital beds, IVs and vials of chemo medicine. Most people can barely get out of the waiting rooms, true. So how was she able to get her hands on those things if there was nothing wrong with her? People don't get IVs if they're healthy.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And isn't it illegal to steal medicine that is not yours? Yeah, absolutely right. You make a really great point, Larkdon86. According to Amanda, there were times where... Those hospital visits were real. They just weren't for cancer. There was other things wrong with her. She said she's got things wrong with her lungs. There was a back problem.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So that's according to Amanda, that she was going into hospitals for other reasons that were true. You know, you said about people don't get IVs if they're healthy. No, but you can get an IV if you go into an emergency room and... you're exhibiting symptoms which I think aren't really hard to fake, right? You can be like, oh, and kind of bend over and also stealing medicine isn't illegal.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Yeah, but again, probably really hard to prove. And I just want to say in terms of the medical equipment that... It's actually really easy sadly or maybe not sadly because maybe it's important you can buy medical equipment online but you can buy medical equipment online. You can buy oxygen tanks, you can buy tubes, you can buy all sorts of things, masks and so that's quite easy to buy online.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So before we jump in though, of course I want to remind you that the Scamander docuseries is now streaming on Hulu. So if you missed an episode or you want to binge it, which I know a lot of you did want to binge the TV show and the podcast, it's ready. You've got it and it's waiting for you. Okay, grab whatever you need, a drink, a snack, and let's settle in.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Have it delivered on your home so you can set it up to make it look like you're you're ill. So it's really intricate. I don't think it's a case of just like her waltzing in and being like, oh, can I have a bit of chemo and steal this vial to take some photos? I think it was far more intricate than that. Moving on to the next question, Rue underscore Shiro.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I have to say, I feel like you've been way too easy on Amanda. Why does it seem like you're always trying to stay neutral on the situation? I love this question. Is it not sort of undeniable that she's a cool person? Well, you know what? I love your honesty and thank you for asking me that.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And I like challenging questions because I constantly, honestly, you have no idea how much I constantly check myself. So I am glad you asked this because I spent a lot of time mulling this over. It was really important, firstly, for me to stay neutral because that's what I'm supposed to do as a journalist.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
We have like a thing about ethics and morals and it's not for me to go in there and judge and be like, hey, everyone. I'm going to tell you about this horrible person. And I also don't think you'd have liked that because isn't it for you to decide what you think? And I also, I'll be really blunt, I honestly don't think it would have been anywhere near as interesting.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
In fact, you probably wouldn't even know about this show or be asking me that question because if I said that, it would have been over in like 30 minutes. And, you know, I do remember some people being like, oh, you could have told this story in like two episodes. No, you couldn't because you would never have understood how this played out.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And the only way you can really understand the depth of someone is show the patterns of behavior and how this happens. And I feel like it was really important for me to sit there and get the facts, right? I know it sounds boring, but facts are really important because what if... What if Amanda was telling the truth and everybody else had got this wrong or Nancy got this wrong or I got this wrong?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
What if there was like an underlying reason that doesn't justify, but it was important to tell? What about if there was like...
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
somebody else pulling the strings behind the scenes you've got to kind of ask all these questions because if I make assumptions what if I get it wrong and honestly I spend months and months and months trying to make sure that I know all the facts and in every part of it not just about like oh Amanda faking cancer but like what was she doing here what was she doing there did she lie about that did she take advantage of that person what did
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Corey do? What was going on with the family? Because it's really important to understand those dynamics and to be honest I think Amanda's own behaviour speaks for itself. So deception is really complicated and I think understanding why people lie and manipulate is just as important as exposing what they did. I think it just shows how fascinating And quite frankly, disturbing it is.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
As you probably know by now, for me, it's a cup of tea. It's always a cup of tea. I know it's super stereotypical and it's English, but it's true. So let's dig in. All right. It will come as no surprise that the most common question I always get is, how did Amanda pull this off for so long? It's the one that kind of baffles all our minds.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But I really, really do appreciate your question. And it's something that I will take on board. But I think it's up to you, not to me, to tell you what to think. So I'm just scrolling to the next question. I've got them all listed here. So the next one is V Astro. Clearly money was a huge motivator in keeping up this act for so long.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
But in the end, if Amanda scammed people out of X amount of dollars, it was around $105,000. But we have actually found that there's more because the cash that was given didn't count in the actual case because it was about wire fraud. What did they do with it? Good question. Obviously, they wouldn't have been able to flaunt it online without raising suspicion. So where did all the money go?
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Thanks for that question. Firstly, I strongly don't believe that money was a motivating factor. I feel like the motivating factor, and I would say I'm 99% sure about this, was Attention, validation, and this addiction of being adored and being somebody and having purpose. And I think the money was secondary to Amanda.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
I do know, according to Amanda and some other testimony, that some of the money went on the custody battle between Corey and his ex-wife, Alita. for their daughter, Jessa.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And if you think about it, like roughly $105,000 in wire fraud in terms of that was given to her website and say there was like maybe another $60,000, which I think is what Nancy believes on top of that and around cash and in-kind services. And then maybe there was another 60 on top of that.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
it's a lot of money right if somebody gave me a load of cash like that in this room right now where I'm recording I'd be like thank you so much that's a huge amount of money but if you think about it over time like Amanda started the blog in 2012 and she didn't get sentenced until 2022 and this went over a long period of time and
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And Nancy didn't even start looking at her blog until 2015 and it carried on and it carried on after that. So if you spread that out over time, it's actually probably less than the average yearly wage. So it's actually not a huge amount of money. If it had been millions, and I think there would have been suspicion because, you know,
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
there wasn't anything where it was overtly materialistic so I actually don't think money played a huge part in it and the evidence shows that too because there wasn't millions and if it had been money then maybe there would have been like a more overt push for money and I know that
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Part of Amanda's story of faking cancer and the reason actually why she got prosecuted and convicted in the first place was because of money. But it wasn't the predominant thing of the case. It was the only way that the law could get her for lying about cancer. Now, one thing I know many of you are curious about is how we brought Amanda's story to life in both the podcast and the docuseries.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And listen, when we first started unraveling Amanda's story, I was really just as shocked as you were. I sat there with all these blog posts that Nancy had handed over to me. And I was like, I can't
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And it's not something I've talked much about, actually. So with the podcast, the challenge was how do I bring the visuals to life? Because this isn't just a blog post. This is blog posts with pictures. So I tried to describe some of the pictures, remind people that there's pictures going alongside this, remind people that people saw Amanda in hospital. They're the visual aspects which
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
harder to bring to life in a podcast, right? But then if you switch it the other way around, when we started making the TV show, it's like, oh, amazing. I can bring those visuals to life, but I still want to get the intricacies of the manipulation and how this was done from the podcast. And so hopefully they just work together.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
And, you know, sometimes I just couldn't believe really what we uncovered. And I kind of do that laugh, not because it's funny, but just because sometimes it's really hard to get your head around things. And what I need to do is try and help you all get your head around it. So let me move on to some questions. Phantom Sky says,
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
While you were putting together the podcast and Nancy was investigating, how did Amanda continue on without it tipping her off? Were there any close calls or moments during the process when you were particularly scared that Amanda would find out? That's a really good question because Amanda already knew.
Scamanda
Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
So in 2015, when Lisa sent in this anonymous tip to Nancy, Nancy started to look through the blog posts and started to investigate. And she found discrepancies and she spoke to Lisa and listened to Lisa. Then Nancy started to actually speak to people. And then what happened with some of these people is they then sent it to Amanda. So Amanda found out very quickly about Nancy, almost immediately.