Christine Vester
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Humanity Over Handcuffs is still in the early stages, but it's already become a lifeline for families because of your podcast and the platform and everyone that's joined in for the 60 Day Project. It was born from the realization that autistic individuals are being misunderstood, criminalized, and abandoned by a system that really should be helping them. We're building more than a movement.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
We're building a future, a place where families can find support, legal tools and resources. and bridge that gap. Our website is currently being developed and will be a centralized hub where families can access vital information, connect with families, connect with advocates, and find real solutions. It's just the beginning. We're laying a strong foundation to create real change.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Unfortunately, what often happens is an autistic individual is really misunderstood. When an autistic person is in distress, especially when an officer is coming and they're not aware that they're autistic, which I always say when you're making a phone call to police, make sure you let them know. Their behaviors may look unusual to a police officer.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Noncompliant, lack of eye contact, shutdowns, even sensory overload can be misread as aggression or defiant. when they're really not. We, as a family, know our children, know our loved ones when they're autistic. We live it, breathe it, and experience it all day. Some police officers are not educated in this area.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
What's really happening is the brain is really overwhelmed and their sensory overload is just like, it's firing off.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
The system treats neurological differences like a criminal behavior. And that has to change. We have to do better. We see it in the news every day. And, you know, we have judges and attorneys and house representatives and families coming forward on this podcast. So I really hope that the prosecutors and judges really listen to this.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Exactly. They don't call expecting that they're going to get a criminal record. They don't expect, you know, I hate to say this, but sometimes guns get drawn at them. They're looking for help, protection, and understanding. And they're met with a system that's not prepared. And I'm not anti-police. There are some really good police officers out there.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Unfortunately, you hear it in the news, there's things that happen. The CIT trainers are really trying to push for better training at a street level. And it should be on a federal level, just as if they were carrying their firearms. They can't go out until they fully trained. It should be the same way with autistic individuals and mental health.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
There should be a training because once that first moment turns into an arrest, it's hard to reverse that damage. It could be life or death. And even to an officer that's in that position and something tragic happens, they go home to their family. And they have to live with this too. It just, we have to do better.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
It is, we're seeing it at a local, state, and federal level, from police intercept, in a state courts, in the federal courts. Autistic individuals are arrested basically for their behaviors, not because they're dangerous, but because the system misreads their needs. This isn't about intent. It's about misunderstanding. And we need a national response.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
And that's why I'm so grateful you're giving the families and the attorneys and house representatives, CIT trainers, a platform to talk about this.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Families enter into a legal system that doesn't often understand autism at all. That's what I've found. I've been in the courtrooms. I've talked to the families. I've watched how this is all playing out. Prosecutors, judges, even defense attorneys aren't always trained in how autism affects communication or their behaviors or intent behind it. They're not career criminals. They have a disability.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
The gap leads to harmful assumptions in a courtroom. And that's dangerous. Autistic people may struggle to answer questions clearly. They might stim, avoid eye contact, or become nonverbal under pressure. But the system, you know, thinks it's a suspicious behavior or disrespectful or uncooperative. It's a complete unfair lens.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
I know some that we hear stories about that they think that they're being aggressive when they're really distressed and they're trying to calm their self down.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Yes, and families are forced to educate at every step of the level. I've seen cases where autism wasn't even mentioned at the mitigation factor or where lawyers refused to even bring in experts, forensic psychologists. The individual then is treated like a typical defendant. When that process is really different for an autistic individual, they process the world entirely different.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
That's why Humanity Over Handcuffs is trying to step in the movement, the series that we're doing.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
We support families by helping them advocate more effectively, connect the gaps, work with professionals and understand autism and educate the legal teams. But we go further than that. We work directly with the legal teams to change the culture from inside. Like I said, we're working with the judges that are coming on. We're working with house representatives.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
We're working with legislation, CIT trainers.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Yes, exactly. We speak to judges, attorneys, and prosecutors. They're coming on to your show and being a voice about how autism affects perception, behavior, and intent.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
This isn't about leniency. It's about justice, and we've got to do better. You can't treat someone the same as a neurotypical defendant, career criminal, and call it fair if they experience reality in a completely different way, which with autistic individuals, they do. And when we treat it like this, we end up punishing people for how their brain works, for their disability.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Not for a real danger they've caused. Autism deserves informed understanding, not incarceration.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
When they become incarcerated, prison is really harsh. It could be a death sentence. We've talked to families and it's heartbreaking. It's chaotic. It's a chaotic environment. For an autistic person, it can be traumatizing. not only for the person that's in the facility, but for the families, because they're told there's nothing they can do, which is not true. You have to advocate really hard.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
There's noise, it's lights, the movement, lights flickering, lack of control, sensory overload, strict routines, shouting. It's a nightmare scenario. Autistic individuals may have meltdowns and withdraw completely. They might be punished for their behaviors that are actually signs of distress. And it's really hard for an officer or a correctional officer to really understand.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
solitary confinement, don't get me started on this, is often used because they have to separate them sometimes, which can do so much harm on them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Staff may not understand the needs of someone with a development disability, and other inmates may actually target them, use them because they're so naive, and even rape them. And I know we don't like to say this, but it happens.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
It is very damaging. And it doesn't stop there. When someone's released after they've been incarcerated, they're expected to reenter into a world that hasn't changed. And without the support they need, probation rules may be too rigid. You know, services are scattered.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Housing, employment are nearly impossible to secure with a record if some of them get a felony, which could be a life sentence to them. Families are left picking up the pieces to survive, wondering, you know, if they die, who's going to take care of them? That is a real fear. You know, and some parents can't sleep at night.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Some of the judges we've talked to and CIT trainers, they have autistic individuals. These are real things. Yes, and they have those fears as well.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
It's like a second sentence. That's why we're fighting for change at every stage, from the arrest to the courtroom to incarceration to reentry. There has to be diversion programs. They just have to do better. We want to have continuing care, education for correctional staff, and real pathways back into the community that respect neurodiversity.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
We're developing a website that will be a one-stop resource hub for families, connecting them with attorneys, mental health professionals, helping with the diversion programs, re-entry planning. Yes, it'll offer links, documents, supporting tools, and training guides, all focused on autism and justice reform.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
And none of this would be possible without the people walking alongside of us doing this 60-day podcast series. all the judges and attorneys and House representatives that have come forward to talk about what's happening in the system. And I want to thank each and every one of them, the judges who have opened up their courtrooms to change. They have the one in Nevada.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
It's a whole court, one of a kind, and it's all for autistic individuals. But that's a telling sign that it's becoming more prevalent in a state and federal level. The House representatives who are listening and helping to move legislation forward. the CIT trainers who are educating fiercely, the officers out there to respond with compassion and de-escalate the Bureau of Prison.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
You know, we've spoke to them for a safer space, you know, for autistic individuals. And then the families who speak out, I encourage them to bridge that gap with their representatives and attorneys and judges and prosecutors and share their story. It's the only way to bridge that gap and remind the world that it isn't just policy, it's personal. These are human beings.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
We're going to look back 10 years from now and say, what were we thinking? Putting someone with autism, having that kind of disability, giving them that kind of sentence, it could be a death sentence. And it's really tough because I think if you've been in this environment and understand it, it's harsh and it's devastating. And we have to do better. There has to be another way of doing this.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
It's common sense.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Thank you, Chani. Thank you for having me on.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
The biggest thing that I hope that everyone takes away from this is you're not alone. You're not powerless when they tell you there's nothing you can do. I encourage families, lawyers, judges, please get involved. Please listen to the podcast. Please listen to the families. Our children are not broken. These individuals are not broken. Autism is not a crime.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
And it should never be treated like one. Keep speaking. Keep advocating. And know that humanity over handcuffs is right here fighting with you. The shift, the system, and to remind what justice should really look like. And that's humanity first. We've got to have some compassion. We've got to do better.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Because what we just heard in the news lately happening to an autistic individual, nobody wants to hear that. We don't want it to become a tragedy before something changes.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles
Thank you, Tony. We're just getting started. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for being a voice for millions. Actually, being a voice for the judges and attorneys and CIT trainers and Bureau of Prison.