Clay Risen

And there's a through line. You can chart organizational relationships, intellectual influences through the Goldwater movement, through the Buchananite populist movement of the 90s. And I think very clearly you can see it today. And whether it's explicit, I think some people do understand this legacy and do see themselves as the latest in this fight.

And there's a through line. You can chart organizational relationships, intellectual influences through the Goldwater movement, through the Buchananite populist movement of the 90s. And I think very clearly you can see it today. And whether it's explicit, I think some people do understand this legacy and do see themselves as the latest in this fight.

And there's a through line. You can chart organizational relationships, intellectual influences through the Goldwater movement, through the Buchananite populist movement of the 90s. And I think very clearly you can see it today. And whether it's explicit, I think some people do understand this legacy and do see themselves as the latest in this fight.

Others implicitly, they may not necessarily understand the history, but they certainly see the situation in the same way. They believe that it's not just the government's too big or there's a lot of waste and bloat. They actually really believe that there is this – deep state. And they didn't say deep state in the 50s, but that's what they meant. That's what we mean today.

Others implicitly, they may not necessarily understand the history, but they certainly see the situation in the same way. They believe that it's not just the government's too big or there's a lot of waste and bloat. They actually really believe that there is this – deep state. And they didn't say deep state in the 50s, but that's what they meant. That's what we mean today.

Others implicitly, they may not necessarily understand the history, but they certainly see the situation in the same way. They believe that it's not just the government's too big or there's a lot of waste and bloat. They actually really believe that there is this – deep state. And they didn't say deep state in the 50s, but that's what they meant. That's what we mean today.

This conspiratorial, anti-American, radical core that's running everything. And that we have to dismantle large sections of the government in order to get rid of them. And You know, in some ways, what we're seeing now is I would go as far as to say the apotheosis of what guys like McCarthy and the people around him could only dream of in the 1950s. What do you mean by that?

This conspiratorial, anti-American, radical core that's running everything. And that we have to dismantle large sections of the government in order to get rid of them. And You know, in some ways, what we're seeing now is I would go as far as to say the apotheosis of what guys like McCarthy and the people around him could only dream of in the 1950s. What do you mean by that?

This conspiratorial, anti-American, radical core that's running everything. And that we have to dismantle large sections of the government in order to get rid of them. And You know, in some ways, what we're seeing now is I would go as far as to say the apotheosis of what guys like McCarthy and the people around him could only dream of in the 1950s. What do you mean by that?

Well, I just mean that, you know, when they would talk about the need to root out this radical core, at the end of the day, they were not going to achieve that. The establishment was very strong and, you know, it was very easy to get up and rant about that. conspiracies and communist infiltration. But the idea that anything would actually happen to satisfy them was a fantasy.

Well, I just mean that, you know, when they would talk about the need to root out this radical core, at the end of the day, they were not going to achieve that. The establishment was very strong and, you know, it was very easy to get up and rant about that. conspiracies and communist infiltration. But the idea that anything would actually happen to satisfy them was a fantasy.

Well, I just mean that, you know, when they would talk about the need to root out this radical core, at the end of the day, they were not going to achieve that. The establishment was very strong and, you know, it was very easy to get up and rant about that. conspiracies and communist infiltration. But the idea that anything would actually happen to satisfy them was a fantasy.

But that fantasy, I think, at least so far, shows a good sign of being made reality today. I mean, we're still early in the administration and

But that fantasy, I think, at least so far, shows a good sign of being made reality today. I mean, we're still early in the administration and

But that fantasy, I think, at least so far, shows a good sign of being made reality today. I mean, we're still early in the administration and

Anything can happen, but certainly if you look at the way people in the administration or under Elon Musk talk about what they're doing, the kind of almost ideological fervor that they're bringing to this project of dismantling the federal government and going after enemies. I mean, those are two parts of the same project, and yet they aren't just echoes of –

Anything can happen, but certainly if you look at the way people in the administration or under Elon Musk talk about what they're doing, the kind of almost ideological fervor that they're bringing to this project of dismantling the federal government and going after enemies. I mean, those are two parts of the same project, and yet they aren't just echoes of –

Anything can happen, but certainly if you look at the way people in the administration or under Elon Musk talk about what they're doing, the kind of almost ideological fervor that they're bringing to this project of dismantling the federal government and going after enemies. I mean, those are two parts of the same project, and yet they aren't just echoes of –

The 1940s and 50s, they are, I would argue, an extension of what was first identified and codified as a project back then.

The 1940s and 50s, they are, I would argue, an extension of what was first identified and codified as a project back then.