Dave Fleming

One of the first things that you and I talked about was the trend of inmates shouting out their teams with their last words. And it seemed like that was something you could understand, right? Because of the connection to sports?

One of the first things that you and I talked about was the trend of inmates shouting out their teams with their last words. And it seemed like that was something you could understand, right? Because of the connection to sports?

One of the first things that you and I talked about was the trend of inmates shouting out their teams with their last words. And it seemed like that was something you could understand, right? Because of the connection to sports?

That's profound. I mean, Charles, again, gives just the most incredible insight. It's the sort of thing you just want to sit with for a while. Unfortunately, we had reached the end of our hour and they were very strict about it. I got a 10-minute warning. And so here we are just sort of... The clock again ticking on this. Yes, exactly.

That's profound. I mean, Charles, again, gives just the most incredible insight. It's the sort of thing you just want to sit with for a while. Unfortunately, we had reached the end of our hour and they were very strict about it. I got a 10-minute warning. And so here we are just sort of... The clock again ticking on this. Yes, exactly.

That's profound. I mean, Charles, again, gives just the most incredible insight. It's the sort of thing you just want to sit with for a while. Unfortunately, we had reached the end of our hour and they were very strict about it. I got a 10-minute warning. And so here we are just sort of... The clock again ticking on this. Yes, exactly.

And now we're packing up and he has to wait for a guard then to re-cuff him, hand back the wireless mic, and take him back to his 23 hours of isolation. And so we can't talk anymore, but Charles is sitting there watching us pack up.

And now we're packing up and he has to wait for a guard then to re-cuff him, hand back the wireless mic, and take him back to his 23 hours of isolation. And so we can't talk anymore, but Charles is sitting there watching us pack up.

And now we're packing up and he has to wait for a guard then to re-cuff him, hand back the wireless mic, and take him back to his 23 hours of isolation. And so we can't talk anymore, but Charles is sitting there watching us pack up.

And that was as close as we all came to getting emotional and even crying because the look on Charles' face, and I know he was trying to hide this, was just a look of like, you guys get to leave. He's imagining that we get to leave. The look on his face is easily one of the saddest things that I've ever experienced on this job in 30 years.

And that was as close as we all came to getting emotional and even crying because the look on Charles' face, and I know he was trying to hide this, was just a look of like, you guys get to leave. He's imagining that we get to leave. The look on his face is easily one of the saddest things that I've ever experienced on this job in 30 years.

And that was as close as we all came to getting emotional and even crying because the look on Charles' face, and I know he was trying to hide this, was just a look of like, you guys get to leave. He's imagining that we get to leave. The look on his face is easily one of the saddest things that I've ever experienced on this job in 30 years.

And it got to the point where I couldn't look at him anymore. because you just feel so helpless and you just feel so much empathy for this other human being and the situation that he's in. in the strangest place, under the worst conditions, through sports, we've kind of bridged this disconnect. And trying to face that moment again, I went back and listened to the tapes.

And it got to the point where I couldn't look at him anymore. because you just feel so helpless and you just feel so much empathy for this other human being and the situation that he's in. in the strangest place, under the worst conditions, through sports, we've kind of bridged this disconnect. And trying to face that moment again, I went back and listened to the tapes.

And it got to the point where I couldn't look at him anymore. because you just feel so helpless and you just feel so much empathy for this other human being and the situation that he's in. in the strangest place, under the worst conditions, through sports, we've kind of bridged this disconnect. And trying to face that moment again, I went back and listened to the tapes.

And I realized that as my mic is cut, Charles is still live. And so you can hear him. Will you listen? He's talking to the guard that comes to escort him back, and he's wondering how the interview went and talking about the Cowboys.

And I realized that as my mic is cut, Charles is still live. And so you can hear him. Will you listen? He's talking to the guard that comes to escort him back, and he's wondering how the interview went and talking about the Cowboys.

And I realized that as my mic is cut, Charles is still live. And so you can hear him. Will you listen? He's talking to the guard that comes to escort him back, and he's wondering how the interview went and talking about the Cowboys.

Like, man, look, this is Texan territory. Yeah. And you can hear him physically exchanging our microphone for the clinking and clanking of the handcuffs.

Like, man, look, this is Texan territory. Yeah. And you can hear him physically exchanging our microphone for the clinking and clanking of the handcuffs.