Diane Warren

Well, sadly, it's me.

I love that.

Probably, I mean, it's a legitimate question.

Like that I... Well, I always thought I could do this, you know, and make a living at it.

But the first time I like, it was like, wow, I... I have a hit record was Rhythm of the Night.

85, like 40 years ago this year. So weird. I was like five when I wrote it. I was such a prodigy. Yeah, so that was... Great song. Thank you. Yeah, it's...

How cool is that?

What did your dad play?

Wow.

Rhythm.

I think I'd just gotten my drum machine, a Lin drum, is that what it would have been at the time?

And I was like playing around with it. That's how that song started.

Well, I was signed to this German publisher. His name was Jack White, not White Stripes, Jack White. So it was like my first publishing deal. So I was kind of... I don't know if I'm answering the question, but...

Yeah, drum machine, like, you know, keyboards. And I have a couple of rooms in my old place. And I have a piano, a grand piano in one room. So I kind of just kind of float around all those rooms. And then I go to the other one and I write in the studio sometimes.

Of those days, like it seemed a lot more fun. Like, you know, that era.

Before it got really corporate, yeah.

And then later on I became, a couple of my friends were in promotion, record promotion. So I would go out with them and, you know, remember La Dome back in the day? Yeah.

You know, and all those places that were like just, and I wasn't really a partier. I was, you know, I wanted to get to work the next day. And I'd be staying at my friend's house, you know, and getting ready to get up to work. And, you know, her roommate would be coming. They were all coked out of their minds. They're coming back in the morning. And I don't know. Those were crazy days.

It must be weird to get in now where it's all about TikTok.

Would the greatest artist in the world be signed now? Would Prince be signed? If his TikTok numbers were high?

Probably, which is so sad.

So I grew up, I came up when it wasn't like that. And I'll be in the studios. I work with a lot of young artists. And I'll be like, oh, so why aren't they promoting that song? Oh, it's a great song. It's a great record. Oh, the TikTok numbers aren't high. Oh, the data. Like... You know, the data that matters is does it make the hair on your arm stand up? Does it make you feel something?

And it's so tech data, you know, it's the antithesis of... Yeah, it's not a harp.

Now, imagine you get... Well, doors can open, but if your TikTok numbers aren't high... But that's what's so crazy. Like in the Springsteen days where they'd wait to... I think it was his second album that broke, you know? It wouldn't have even been his second single. Yeah, I mean... They would have dropped him.

Oh, I've worked with some of them. You know, yes. And it's like, oh, my God. It was like some kind of viral TikTok thing that was lightning in a bottle. This isn't a real artist. It's like they're not going to last.

You know, and I, yeah, I deal with that sometimes.

Oh, I always knew I didn't want to be the person behind the microphone. I always knew I just wanted to write.

Again, maybe I made that up. No, I've never been a frustrated artist. I never, no. But I did start a record that I might finish just for the fuck of it. Like not that I care about it. But like, no, I like being, I'm very happy behind the scenes with better singers singing my songs.

It's happened. It's happened.

Once it's a hit, I'm like, well, it's the right voice.

You're lucky you're a great singer.

You know, I'm like, you know, Blanche Dubois in Streetcar Named Desire. I always depend on the kindness of strangers.

You know, no, I try to write the best song I can write. And then, like, a lot of my songs go different ways. But, like, I just try to write a great song. But then as I'm writing it, I'm thinking, oh, that could be right for so-and-so. Or someone that I never thought of, like Steven Tyler. Like, I don't want to miss a thing.

Like, I never in a million years thought Steven Tyler would be, A, would ever do my song.

Isn't that weird that it's weird? It's weird. Like people go, God, you write songs by yourself. I go, yeah, why is, it's weird that it's weird.

And B, that that would have been a song for him. But now I can't imagine anybody else.

Depends on what movie you're in.

You mean like a voice I'm hearing? I write so many different genres of songs. Like, you know, I go from like I just did something with Anjali Kidjo. And then I'll go from that to, you know.

So it's not one. In other words, so it's not one voice.

It's kind of whatever voice is right for that song.

No, it's interesting. I mean, there are big questions.

Me too. Like it's like life to me.

Well, sadly, it's me.

Yeah.

But you can really sing. See, I don't like to listen to myself sing. So sometimes I'm writing and I pretend I'm somebody else.

Well, no, it's like, it might be an artist. It might be when I'm writing, I'm like imagining someone doing it. But then I come back to earth and I have to hear me, so...

Yes. I love it.

I just try to, I want to write a great song. Hopefully it's a great single too.

But you never know what's going to, like some things, you never know. I just try to write great songs. I want them to sound like they could be hits. I want them to all connect. I want them to write songs that connect.

I have to think. Anytime any of them are successful, I'm always shocked. To be honest, because everything can work against it. So when one comes through, it's like, oh my God, what didn't fuck up there?

People started liking songs that they didn't like a week before. I remember that. I love this town. You know, yeah, right? And then the ones that go.

But no, the, it's so weird now there's so many people like there'll be like 10 people in a room like a writing camp I'm like that you know I mean I you know can I talk like that I'll be believing me a lot um but yeah so uh it's to paint the picture for our great audience like

And all the ones that didn't want to sign you go, oh my God, I always believed in you and stuff. But it's okay. You know, you just smile and go, yeah.

I can if I have to. I mean, right now I have a TV show that I helped develop that's a big Disney music show.

It's being filmed now. So it's about three young girls.

Well, it's called How We Became the Biggest Band in the World. So it's about these three girls. They meet in junior high.

Yeah, so I'm writing songs for them. But I'm writing hit songs that are authentic to who they are. So it is kind of writing to order.

I kind of tend, I like D. I had a feeling. Yeah, isn't that weird? Maybe it's because my name starts with a D. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I think we, you know, on the guitar, C and G. I mean, all those normal keys. But, you know, I like D flat. I've written some good songs on D flat.

Yeah, yeah, darker.

Well, I basically do.

It's just what I, yeah, it's what I'm comfortable. I like taking something from nothing and building, like we're world builders in a way, right?

You know, like every song is a world and it has its own laws and its own rules that only fit that. And I love doing that. I love creating those worlds.

Do you have like... I mean, my advice for anything, if you want to succeed, is show up.

Yeah. I mean, you've got to show up. You've got to show up and work.

Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think I've allowed that to happen. I try not to now, but I try not to write about something, but you know.

Wow. You know, the data that matters is, does it make the hair on your arm stand up? Does it make you feel something?

Yeah.

You mean like learning someone else's song?

A breakthrough of going to another level of writing?

Well, I'll give an example. I mean, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but when I wrote that song, when I wrote Because You Loved Me, I was like, this is a whole different level of my writing. And when I wrote it, I go, this song is better than me. And I have to catch up to that song.

Yeah, there's... I don't know.

I go, this is, well, how did I write that? And I have to catch up to that because that's just one to other.

I don't even know how to break it down. It was the level.

No, it was just the craft of it or something. It was just, I don't know. I felt like it was... Like, I don't analyze stuff. I just kind of do.

I just don't really sit in it. And like, I just knew, I just knew that, that, that, you know, when you get that feeling, you know, it's like, it's a breakthrough.

There's cassettes. There's everything. I mean, it's like... There's probably like dinosaur eggs in there. I don't know. I've been there so long. Who knows what's there? I'm either... I'm probably immune to every disease because like I've been there for 40 years without cleaning it.

Yeah. I have no clue how I do what I do. So I just show up.

That's all right.

One of the ABBA girls.

But you're going in the old days, a lot of those.

I mean, it's just... It's a lot of people on there.

Okay, then if you flatter me, I have to flatter you.

Oh.

I mean, I don't think about it. I kind of forgot some of those people on the list. I'm like, Renee Frogger.

Probably. I've written a lot of songs.

Wow. Irving Berlin's a hero.

I know, and he had that thing on his piano.

So... The mold won't even go in there.

Yeah, I think he played in, what, was it in D-flat or something?

Yeah, me neither.

Right, wow. And he just never bothered to learn how to play in different keys.

I don't know. It's like, right now you can just press a button.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think I'm tied, me and Lionel Richie, with the most number ones solo written.

Great guy, too. Really nice guy.

I like that. Someone else called me an assassin.

I love that.

I love it. I love that.

Someone, like, not that long ago called me a trained assassin. I'm like, I like that.

I know, but you probably are, too.

Yeah, so you'd get me.

Weird, I know.

It's never enough, no.

Oh, wow. You a snobby musician?

I mean, I like just to work on one song at one time. Because I have to give it my full attention. Because I have to really make that song as good as I can make it.

Okay, so... But you're talking to me. And I'm like the most uncool person in the world.

Okay.

I don't want to miss a thing.

All right. It felt like it was this... Aerosmith did a Diane Lawrence, huh? It was like... They sold out.

Oh, I didn't see that.

Probably the Grammys, right?

So I didn't go either. Exactly. I'd rather go to the Oscars.

Oh, wow.

I love that.

I like to have a concept of something I want to write.

That should be my nickname, too. Oh, yeah. No, but it's great. It is... I mean, this is a cliche, but it's just great to be just nominated, but it really is, especially with the Oscars.

No, but there's only five songs. They only picked five out of five.

Well, I wrote one of five, 16 times.

Oh, yeah. Then I would definitely win. No, but this... I'm really excited about this year. This, you know, maybe... Maybe it'll happen. You know, it's a really good song.

No, but not that I can teach anything, but I like something that's going to compel me to write it. But it might be just playing some chords, like that happens too.

Okay, yeah, don't do that.

Like, don't you feel better when you write and you write something great?

Yeah, me too. Even starting one where I just go, oh, I... Love this. Yeah, it's totally therapeutic.

It didn't hurt me, you know?

I bought David Geffen's house, like his little house.

No, not the small one where his boyfriend was living at the time a while ago. And I tried to negotiate the price down. And he said, you're crazy. You need to see my shrink. And she was this woman named Beatrice Foster and she was kind of this mean Argentinian. But my friends would, you know, people I knew would go, you know, it's going to hurt your writing and all that.

And it didn't, you know, it didn't hurt my writing at all.

Yeah. So...

I mean, that shrank, the mean Argentinian one. She's the one who said, I have Asperger's. So I never technically was diagnosed. But I think we're probably all on the spectrum that do this. Yeah, that's kind of why I wanted to ask, because it seems like one of those things where it's like... I mean, to sit there and do, like, sit and do one line of a song all day long, you have to figure it out.

I mean, you've got to be a little bit weird.

No, it might be just a title. I don't know.

Yeah, so, I mean, I think people put names on all these things. I mean, what does that really mean, you know?

Yeah, that happens. Yeah, it does.

Yeah. As long as you feel... Yeah, feel compelled to do it. Or I might just be playing chords, you know, and then not knowing what, you know, but I don't ever write a lyric first and write music to it. I've never done that.

No, I wish that happened.

You're lucky.

Okay, so I don't have that brain. I wish I did.

That's amazing.

No. If I've dreamt something, I don't remember it. So I don't really dream songs become songs.

In the dream, they sound like... Everything looks better and sounds better.

That's amazing.

You got any?

I don't know. That's just my life. I like to sleep with a cat. Yeah.

No, so she's kind of useless. No, but I could stay awake just to hear her purring. So I rewrote the Aerosmith song.

being out of relationship in the literal sense of the word that creates an ambience around love that keeps it in a certain place for you because you've written so many love songs i could fall in love in every song because i could be in that in that that character and then i'm out of it and i'm on the next one i can write a new song next and i can write you know so you know it's just yeah i've never got the memo i had to be in a relationship with anybody it's just not me

I'm just seeing what happens.

I don't know.

Not really. Do you?

Oh, I'm sorry.

I think mine, I do think there's a theme in some of my songs. Okay, good.

Like, you know, proving people wrong. You know, there's always that, like, you know, you, I'm going to get through it. I'm going to.

Even in the journey, even like my latest song with her.

We're going to win this time. Sweet 16, come on. But basically that's what the song is about. When you're going with your heart, you can go farther than you ever thought possible. Prove them all wrong.

It's the journey.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's basically... It's just basically that against all odds, just like, you know, growing up a mile away from here and I'm sitting here talking about a career that I know is one in a billion.

I mean, you know, so I don't lose sight of that.

I probably don't know how to write rap. Okay. But I can write for rappers that sing. But I think I've, you know... Yeah, that's probably the, you know... Yeah. I don't know. Maybe death metal wouldn't be what I would do.

I bet you could write amazing for Broadway.

Yeah.

No, just not knowing that I wouldn't be able to do it or want to do it.

I kind of, kind of am, you know, but it's not, that's not why I don't want to clean my room.

You know... Not a lot of melody there. Not a lot, not a lot.

I appreciate it, but...

Yeah, there's always new ones.

Yeah, yeah. I'm always on to the next one.

Probably. I don't think about it. I just do it.

No, I just, you know, it's just what I do.

You know?

Just get better at it. I want to just keep writing great songs.

Yeah, and there's a couple of things I'm kind of doing.

Yeah, there's one that's in development that's been written and stuff. So it's a bunch of my hits, but with new songs. But it's not my day job. It's not really my world, but it's cool if it works. It just takes forever.

No, I'm just too lazy. I don't know. I kind of like it. I'm used to it. I like it.

Yeah.

It's not as, you know, it takes too long. It takes a long time. It's not as, you know.

Yeah, it's still, you know.

Yeah, exactly. If I do musicals, I want to do ones that are hit songs.

The ones my parents played.

Those were great hit songs. And you can modernize them.

Ray Charles.

Well, when I do my musicals, there's going to be hits.

Yeah, exactly.

No. Well, it has four legs.

What am I fighting against?

Right.

I don't know what they'd understand. I don't know if anybody understands anybody, really.

Okay. Like, so... So if it... It has to be... I'm being authentic to what is being said in that song.

It depends depending on the song.

You know, it depends on... Yeah, just because you've written so many great love songs, I almost wonder... Yeah, but not everything's... I have some good, you know, songs that aren't love songs.

Yeah, it's like anything. I mean, it makes it easier if you feel safe. It's like, you know, I don't know how to answer that. I just, I like to be comfortable and then I could just not think about where I am. Because, you know, when we write, we kind of, it transports us.

Right. So even if it's about something else, there's a subliminal thing.

Did you ever get to know her?

Right.

And now it's Instagram, isn't it?

Right, right.

It was like, it looked... Enticing.

I mean, I didn't name it the cave. So it's a place I've been writing for.

I wonder how many people came to Hollywood and, you know.

With that, like thousands.

Right.

And they came here and there was like a million of them.

Yeah, or the other city right next door to you that you didn't know. But, you know, growing up, like I said, right down the street from here, you know, Hollywood was a million miles away, too.

Well, just when I'd go, you know, going over the hill to have meetings and it just seemed like, it was almost like being from the Midwest, being in the valley. But not the idealized thing, you know, not like, you know.

No, no, they're gone. Yours?

Yeah, we're orphans.

Well, my dad, a long time ago. He was 70 in 87. My mom in 2002.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, he'd call radio stations and request songs. That's so amazing. Yeah, it was kind of cool. That must have felt... Yeah, and then I got a good friend from that because one of the people he called, I ended up becoming really good friends with.

You know, she saw a lot of it, and she would say she's proud of me, but she wouldn't, you know. I'd say, you know, Mom, I just got a check for, like, some ridiculous amount of money. She goes, well, how much are you going to keep?

Yeah. Yeah.

It's really just even though I got a lot of distraction in my room, like it's all messy and disgusting. But in my mind, it doesn't I don't notice anything. I don't. Yeah. You know, I could I drive down sunset a million times and I'll go, oh, you know, I'll see something not realize it's been there for 30 years. I've been driving by it, but I just don't notice.

Yeah, in the Depression era, because my parents were older parents when they had me.

A lot of them.

Not all of them. Nice talking to you.

Thank you.

Not as much, but I do like a good horoscope. I believe in it when it's a good horoscope.

I just call it my disgusting writing room. I don't know. I mean, you know, Robert Hilburn one time wrote an article on what used to be called the calendar. It was a magazine. It was a really long time ago. And he called it the cave. But I never called it that. I mean, I don't call it anything really. I just call it my room, you know. I've had it for almost 40 years.

I'm not sure if the last part of it makes sense because I don't know how nurtured I was growing up.

Yeah, my dad was really supportive. My mom was like, how are you going to make a living doing that? You know, and I grew up really literally a mile away from where we're sitting right now. It's pretty cool.

But yeah, you know, I mean, the chances of, look, same with you. Like, what are the chances that we would, that you'd be successful for me?

You know, I don't know. I didn't have anybody in my family that was in music. You know, my dad sold insurance.

Because it was probably hard for him, and he didn't want you to have that life.

Right, right.

Just hanging out with my friends, getting stoned all the time. You're talking about like when I was a little kid or when I was about...

Well, I was obsessed with music before I even, you know. At what age? Seeing the Beatles.

Yeah, on Ed Sullivan. But I saw them in person, too, because I have older sisters.

I saw them at the Hollywood Bowl and Dodger Stadium.

I remember a lot of screaming. But I remember making my mom buy me Meet the Beatles after seeing them on that. So I think that fuse lit everybody up.

And I was obsessed with music, and I got to hear everything growing up in my house. My parents listened to show tunes. I had older sisters.

Which is weird, because I don't really hear that, but it's an interesting thing.

A melody thing.

Right. You see that? I see that. But anyways, when I was 11, my dad got me a little guitar from Tijuana. I started making up songs. And he was taking me to a guitar teacher and the guitar teacher wanted me to learn scales. I think it was... It was somewhere on Balboa and Devonshire. So it's around here too. It's so weird.

And he told my dad not to bring me back because I had no future in music because I didn't want to learn the scales. I wanted to make up my own songs. So that's when I started getting the bug, you know, to write.

Not exactly. I remember some of the old songs, but not the exact first one.

So whatever was on in... Yeah, because radio, when I grew up, it was like KRLA, KFWB, KHJ. They played everything. So it wasn't like so fragmented like it is now.

Yeah, it's kind of... I mean, I like it in there. I was there today. I start every day there, you know?

Yeah, but you could hear everything. You could hear The Beatles. You could hear Motown.

Downtown, great song.

It's a great key change in the world.

So I got to hear, it was like getting this master class of songwriting. Because to me, that was the golden age. I love the Brill Building, that era.

I think he saw something in me.

It's hard to define. I think my dad was, you know, like after he retired, he would work with actors at this place called the Migot Theater down, it was on... What was it? Satakoi around White Oak. And I think my dad was like a frustrated performer almost or something. Anyways, but he totally supported me. He would take me to publishers and stuff.

About nine, a little after nine.

You're lucky you're a great singer.

I was like an arrogant little asshole.

About 15 or 16.

Let me see. One time, this was funny. So I was like probably about 16 or 17. My dad took me to see a publisher, you know, and the guy, he liked my songs, but he didn't, you know, he said, well, you know, why don't you go in the studio, do some demos? My dad goes, if you like him so much, why aren't you spending your money? I'll never forget that. You know, but... Yeah.

Because I read some... I just, you know, I... My normal work days, I show up like around nine o'clock and just start writing. Then I also have a building where my studio is a couple of blocks away. So I usually start out at my old place.

You know, and then I made my dad get me a subscription to Billboard, where I studied everything. You know, who wrote everything, who produced... Okay, so when you started doing that... Yeah.

Yeah, I would see different names, you know.

Well, seeing Goffin King was one of the first things I ever saw in a single that when I said I want to be in that parentheses.

Yeah, Goffin King. I mean, like I knew Carole King more as a songwriter from Tapestry. Yeah.

Because that world building era to me is like the greatest, you know, songs ever.

You know.

Yeah, those little cubicles. That's why I like to be in little, like that's why I like my room. You know, I kind of feel like I created my own version of it.

Yeah, I mean... You know, I loved all the Holland Does Your Holland songs, all the Motown songs, all the... Like, you know, I would... Yeah. You know, people like that. And then I would just, you know, really get into... You know, like, I hated school. I failed everything, you know, basically.

And I didn't give a... Yeah. Like... You know, but when you find what you, probably like you, you find music or you find something you love.

Yeah, it's like, okay, like I want to know everything. I want to know, and I just, yeah, I would just study everything.

I grew up here, so I could see it from the outside, I guess. You think it's like probably like Beach Boys and I'm around the beach. No, I mean, we were in the valley, me and my friends, you know, we had our little, you know, group of weirdos, you know, I mean, you know, so it was, you know, it wasn't like we thought the California dream because we were not that we were living the California dream.

We just were like valley kids.

glamorous yeah and cool or whatever yeah but that's what i love about you saying your dad took you to publishers like he was like let's get in in there like yeah because that's where you would go that's where he would take and then there was this thing called the songwriter showcase that my dad would take me to tell me let's explain that it was len chandler and john brahaney where they they had a showcase that they'd showcase for publishers and stuff and my dad would take me there he first took me i was like 15 and i was like they didn't really like the songs i first brought them and i'd argue and say you don't know what you're talking about i was

Yeah, not necessarily recording, but I go have lunch and then I might have a meeting or I might, like today, I was just recording something before I got here. So it's all kind of, but I like to start out the day just by myself. Like I have my company that used to be at that place.

I was such an arrogant little brat, you know. And then my dad would, you know, go, you need to listen to them. And they'd go, Mr. Warren, go in the other room. And then, you know, they'd talk to me. And then I'd come back the next week with five more songs. I kept coming back. And then finally, you know, I got to be on their showcase. I was like 16 years old or something, you know.

But, you know, I don't know. I'm always someone that keeps coming back.

Relentless.

Yes, I am relentless.

Oh, I thought I could do this when I had no reason to. I thought I was great when I wasn't. But I think you have to have that. You have to have a little bit of that kind of self-deception.

I mean, what makes anybody great is, I don't know, hard work and talent.

And you can't have one without the other.

Talent without work doesn't mean work without, hard work without talent doesn't mean.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, this is it. And I'm still as driven and hungry as I am ever.

You know, yeah, I never, like my rear view mirror, it doesn't work. So I just, I don't look at it.

And I can always get better. So I always want to get better at what I do.

No, no.

I don't even know where the laurels are.

Up to us, yeah. You have a gift, but it's what you do with it.

And then the COVID shutdown happened and everybody stayed home. And I was like, but I went there every day. I go, I really like it. I like being here by myself. And I just bought the other place and I was making that to be where the company would move to.

I didn't feel there was a prohibition because it was never anything I desired. You know what I mean? I just wanted a right. And I never felt... Like, I never felt, because I was a girl, that it was going to be harder.

I didn't really feel any of that.

Maybe that's just your... I think it's also different if you're an artist, if you're being a female artist, that what might be, you know, a different kind of thing, I'm thinking.