Dominic Sandbrook

I don't think so.

However, on the positive side, as you remind us in your wonderful books, children do have space hoppers.

So it's not all bad.

whatever it might be because also the other thing is he's incredibly easy to impersonate and this is the golden age of beige impersonations as featured by mike yarwood who coined the phrase silly billy that dennis healy's always meant to be saying but doesn't and then dennis healy does actually take it up and starts using it and to his massive credit dennis healy also used to go on the dame edna everett show a lot did you see this he went on once with uh with roger moore

But presumably this is seen on the left of the Labour Party as the names of Zurich kicking in, international finance doing its worst.

It's the argument that Andy Burnham makes about, you know, don't be in hock to the capital markets and Zach Polanski saying it as well.

So it's a kind of a perspective that's coming back into fashion now.

Yeah, very sad, because he was such a brilliant, able, go-getting, technology kind of guy, wasn't he, in the 60s?

They will, yeah.

Shop-soiled is the word that's always used, isn't it?

Yeah.

The Tories aren't voting for these cuts.

No, the Tories will always vote against the government.

Okay, but they would presumably be in favour of these cuts.

Yeah.

They're putting party ahead of country.

But if the government wins the vote in a kind of Tory right of the Labour Party alliance,

then that's very bad for the government.

I'm just playing four-dimensional chess here in a way that clearly Mrs. Thatcher wasn't.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, he may have got the top economics degree at Oxford in its history, but he's not as shrewd a political operator as me.