Dr. Adi Jaffe

Being a people pleaser served you. It worked for you. That's why it became a thing. And that's what a lot of people miss is that chart in the book where I say, a lot of people look at somebody's endpoint and they say, this makes no sense. And I promise you, if you follow the story to the beginning and you understand how this behavior began, I guarantee I'll put everything on this.

Being a people pleaser served you. It worked for you. That's why it became a thing. And that's what a lot of people miss is that chart in the book where I say, a lot of people look at somebody's endpoint and they say, this makes no sense. And I promise you, if you follow the story to the beginning and you understand how this behavior began, I guarantee I'll put everything on this.

That's kind of the average we get. And what happens to a lot of people is that finally explains to them why stopping the behavior has been so tough. Because everybody's tried, right? If you feel like you're hooked on sugar and you've tried to cut down your sugar intake, and you've been unsuccessful, you end up beating yourself up. You go, well, what's wrong with me?

That's kind of the average we get. And what happens to a lot of people is that finally explains to them why stopping the behavior has been so tough. Because everybody's tried, right? If you feel like you're hooked on sugar and you've tried to cut down your sugar intake, and you've been unsuccessful, you end up beating yourself up. You go, well, what's wrong with me?

It makes all the sense in the world. You developed a behavior of giving to others, even to potentially sometimes at a cost to yourself because the cost otherwise was isolation, loneliness, shame in a way, right? Because what is shame but separating us from others? And so it was a brilliant method. And you came up with it on your own.

It makes all the sense in the world. You developed a behavior of giving to others, even to potentially sometimes at a cost to yourself because the cost otherwise was isolation, loneliness, shame in a way, right? Because what is shame but separating us from others? And so it was a brilliant method. And you came up with it on your own.

That's what I love about addictive compulsive tendencies is they worked so well for a while that we actually over relied on them because they served a purpose. And then I assume, I don't know if this is true because you didn't tell me this before, but I assume what ended up happening is at some point later in life, you're like, I'm surrounded by people. Everybody likes me.

That's what I love about addictive compulsive tendencies is they worked so well for a while that we actually over relied on them because they served a purpose. And then I assume, I don't know if this is true because you didn't tell me this before, but I assume what ended up happening is at some point later in life, you're like, I'm surrounded by people. Everybody likes me.

Everything looks good on the outside. Why am I not happy? And you're like, oh, because I'm actually not reserving enough of the resources, enough of the time, enough of what I have for myself. I'm giving it even when I don't necessarily want to.

Everything looks good on the outside. Why am I not happy? And you're like, oh, because I'm actually not reserving enough of the resources, enough of the time, enough of what I have for myself. I'm giving it even when I don't necessarily want to.

I love that. I love that because it serves... My main point in writing this book is to really broaden the lens. When we talk about compulsive behaviors and addiction, almost everybody talks about drugs and alcohol. You know, that's a third of it, maybe even a quarter. Most compulsive patterns are actually behavioral, in my opinion.

I love that. I love that because it serves... My main point in writing this book is to really broaden the lens. When we talk about compulsive behaviors and addiction, almost everybody talks about drugs and alcohol. You know, that's a third of it, maybe even a quarter. Most compulsive patterns are actually behavioral, in my opinion.

I mean, look, think of all the people that are doom scrolling on their devices all the time. What is that but escapist behavior? But they can say to themselves, I'm not drinking, I'm not using drugs, I'm not doing anything bad. Why is this a problem? And you alluded to it, but I'll talk about it in the book.

I mean, look, think of all the people that are doom scrolling on their devices all the time. What is that but escapist behavior? But they can say to themselves, I'm not drinking, I'm not using drugs, I'm not doing anything bad. Why is this a problem? And you alluded to it, but I'll talk about it in the book.

I talk about, in the book, about a client of mine who reached out to me after they collapsed on the floor in front of their colleagues, peers, and clients. They thought they were dying. That was the moment. And I won't kill the story for anybody who's going to read the book, but that was the moment they realized that was a problem.

I talk about, in the book, about a client of mine who reached out to me after they collapsed on the floor in front of their colleagues, peers, and clients. They thought they were dying. That was the moment. And I won't kill the story for anybody who's going to read the book, but that was the moment they realized that was a problem.

And I would argue just like somebody who's had an alcohol addiction ends up being arrested or somebody who's, you know, addicted to drugs and has an overdose. It's that moment back against the wall where most people change, but you don't have to wait that long, right? The whole point of writing the book is to try to help you do this longer, easier. Yeah.

And I would argue just like somebody who's had an alcohol addiction ends up being arrested or somebody who's, you know, addicted to drugs and has an overdose. It's that moment back against the wall where most people change, but you don't have to wait that long, right? The whole point of writing the book is to try to help you do this longer, easier. Yeah.

Why can't I control my behavior? And for a lot of people, once they understand that there's actually a whole sea of underlying issues, it gives them a different frame and something else to start attacking in order to actually change their behavior.

Why can't I control my behavior? And for a lot of people, once they understand that there's actually a whole sea of underlying issues, it gives them a different frame and something else to start attacking in order to actually change their behavior.

Yeah, and I use that example in my own. I'll actually end up where I talk about this in the book. Most people, in order to create real transformational change, at least to decide and then go do all the work for it, need what I call back against the wall moment. This is the come to Jesus, oh my gosh, my life can't continue the way that it's been going, right?

Yeah, and I use that example in my own. I'll actually end up where I talk about this in the book. Most people, in order to create real transformational change, at least to decide and then go do all the work for it, need what I call back against the wall moment. This is the come to Jesus, oh my gosh, my life can't continue the way that it's been going, right?

The problem is those are high stress situations. You've been arrested. Your wife says she's going to leave you. You've almost died. You've hurt yourself. You've ruined relationships, you know? really, really difficult sometimes to come out of those. Not only are they high stress, you've lost a lot, which means there's more room to make up.

The problem is those are high stress situations. You've been arrested. Your wife says she's going to leave you. You've almost died. You've hurt yourself. You've ruined relationships, you know? really, really difficult sometimes to come out of those. Not only are they high stress, you've lost a lot, which means there's more room to make up.

You're also the least resource psychologically because of high stress, high uncontrollable stress. And I talk about chronic and acute stress in the book. So...

You're also the least resource psychologically because of high stress, high uncontrollable stress. And I talk about chronic and acute stress in the book. So...

they are the best at creating motivation to change but the amount of work that's required is actually greater if you take yourself there than if you can start earlier so the whole premise of the book the sparrow and eat model and i'll double click on e because you mentioned it before eat stands for explore accept transform and the kind of joke or the thing that i just say to people is look we all know

they are the best at creating motivation to change but the amount of work that's required is actually greater if you take yourself there than if you can start earlier so the whole premise of the book the sparrow and eat model and i'll double click on e because you mentioned it before eat stands for explore accept transform and the kind of joke or the thing that i just say to people is look we all know

I'm on your podcast. We all know we need to watch what we eat in order to keep our well-being and our health. We also need to watch what we eat in our head, right? So not just in our bodies, but also our brains. And so explore, accept, transform says, if you got a negative outcome, if something happened in your life that you don't like, most of us try to ignore it. or change it.

I'm on your podcast. We all know we need to watch what we eat in order to keep our well-being and our health. We also need to watch what we eat in our head, right? So not just in our bodies, but also our brains. And so explore, accept, transform says, if you got a negative outcome, if something happened in your life that you don't like, most of us try to ignore it. or change it.

I say you're not ready to change it because you don't know what drove that. And so explore is about identifying those underlying issues. And we'll get into the other parts of it later. But for somebody who finds themselves in a situation with their back against the wall,

I say you're not ready to change it because you don't know what drove that. And so explore is about identifying those underlying issues. And we'll get into the other parts of it later. But for somebody who finds themselves in a situation with their back against the wall,

pause before you try to change a lot before you try to brush it under understand why you just found yourself there right track back like you just talked to us about starting out moving as a child and and having all these needs to be popular and be accepted track back why your behavior just took you to this end point understand and i give you a model how to do that in the book understand what needs to be changed because that's the best learning opportunity you do that early you will never end up in a situation where you're about to lose everything

pause before you try to change a lot before you try to brush it under understand why you just found yourself there right track back like you just talked to us about starting out moving as a child and and having all these needs to be popular and be accepted track back why your behavior just took you to this end point understand and i give you a model how to do that in the book understand what needs to be changed because that's the best learning opportunity you do that early you will never end up in a situation where you're about to lose everything

Yeah. So I kind of named them quickly, but let's just break them down. Number one is actually early developmental modeling and behavioral development. So the environment you were born into taught you a lot about the world. A lot. but you were zero to eight, nine, 10 years old. Most of it you don't remember in terms of an explicit memory.

Yeah. So I kind of named them quickly, but let's just break them down. Number one is actually early developmental modeling and behavioral development. So the environment you were born into taught you a lot about the world. A lot. but you were zero to eight, nine, 10 years old. Most of it you don't remember in terms of an explicit memory.

So the way I opened Sparrow, Sparrow stands for stimulus, perception, activation, response, and outcome. Sparrow. Most people come to me after a negative outcome. That's that back against the wall moment, right? Yeah. fight with the wife, said she's gonna leave them. They lost a job. One of my clients literally fell off a 30-foot retaining wall while drunk in the middle of the night, almost died.

So the way I opened Sparrow, Sparrow stands for stimulus, perception, activation, response, and outcome. Sparrow. Most people come to me after a negative outcome. That's that back against the wall moment, right? Yeah. fight with the wife, said she's gonna leave them. They lost a job. One of my clients literally fell off a 30-foot retaining wall while drunk in the middle of the night, almost died.

Bad, bad experiences. And so they come to me at a negative outcome. In their head, so I'll go back to Sparrow, stimulus, perception, activation, response, outcome. Response comes right before outcome. The response is the behavior. What did you do? So they say, I went drinking. I blacked out. I almost killed myself. I need to stop drinking.

Bad, bad experiences. And so they come to me at a negative outcome. In their head, so I'll go back to Sparrow, stimulus, perception, activation, response, outcome. Response comes right before outcome. The response is the behavior. What did you do? So they say, I went drinking. I blacked out. I almost killed myself. I need to stop drinking.

Or my wife found out that I watch porn behind her back all the time, or I cheated on her. The response was a cheating or the response with the porn. I need to stop doing the thing. What they miss is a stimulus perception activation piece that come before it. And so they get caught in this cycle. I did something bad. I had a bad outcome. I tried to change the behavior. It doesn't succeed.

Or my wife found out that I watch porn behind her back all the time, or I cheated on her. The response was a cheating or the response with the porn. I need to stop doing the thing. What they miss is a stimulus perception activation piece that come before it. And so they get caught in this cycle. I did something bad. I had a bad outcome. I tried to change the behavior. It doesn't succeed.

I get the negative outcome again and they get caught and they don't understand why they're failing.

I get the negative outcome again and they get caught and they don't understand why they're failing.

Yeah. Like in your situation, I'm over committing. I'm saying yes too much to people. I need to say no to people more. Sounds so simple. It's like, oh, duh, thank you. Now you just help. I'm the best psychologist on the face of the planet, right?

Yeah. Like in your situation, I'm over committing. I'm saying yes too much to people. I need to say no to people more. Sounds so simple. It's like, oh, duh, thank you. Now you just help. I'm the best psychologist on the face of the planet, right?

Stop eating sugar. I mean, you don't even need 12 steps. I got one. This is it, right? It's a one step. Just stop doing the bad thing. People keep failing. They don't understand why. The reason people are failing is that response, that behavior is not standing on its own. It's a response to an activation caused by a frame, caused by a perception.

Stop eating sugar. I mean, you don't even need 12 steps. I got one. This is it, right? It's a one step. Just stop doing the bad thing. People keep failing. They don't understand why. The reason people are failing is that response, that behavior is not standing on its own. It's a response to an activation caused by a frame, caused by a perception.

So the whole point of the book is to say when a negative outcome happens, and this is to me, I've learned this over the last 20 years of my own behavioral change, we'll get to my story, but in the last 23 years, I had to do essentially 180 degree turn in my own life, right?

So the whole point of the book is to say when a negative outcome happens, and this is to me, I've learned this over the last 20 years of my own behavioral change, we'll get to my story, but in the last 23 years, I had to do essentially 180 degree turn in my own life, right?

And the vast majority of it, you would never actually understand the depths to which it predicts your future behavior. But your brain is conditioned to do the most of its learning definitely before you hit age 12. And after that kind of just become more and more efficient in repeating that same model.

And the vast majority of it, you would never actually understand the depths to which it predicts your future behavior. But your brain is conditioned to do the most of its learning definitely before you hit age 12. And after that kind of just become more and more efficient in repeating that same model.

And so I had to learn very, very quickly in order to save myself, how do I make sure that I do not keep ruining my life by making really, really wrong choices? But what I've learned through literature, through studying psychology, getting my PhD, all this stuff is you actually normally learn through failure. Avoiding failure is a bad idea.

And so I had to learn very, very quickly in order to save myself, how do I make sure that I do not keep ruining my life by making really, really wrong choices? But what I've learned through literature, through studying psychology, getting my PhD, all this stuff is you actually normally learn through failure. Avoiding failure is a bad idea.

And I give examples in the book, but you look at the most successful human beings on the face of the planet. And regardless of how you feel politically, let's put Elon Musk in that category. Let's put Henry Ford. Let's put Steve Jobs. Let's put Michael Jordan. The biggest successes on the face of the planet are successes because they don't fear failure.

And I give examples in the book, but you look at the most successful human beings on the face of the planet. And regardless of how you feel politically, let's put Elon Musk in that category. Let's put Henry Ford. Let's put Steve Jobs. Let's put Michael Jordan. The biggest successes on the face of the planet are successes because they don't fear failure.

Or at least they know how to leverage it once it happens, right? And so those negative outcomes that people come to me for, they're great opportunities. But what most people try to do is they say, hey, tell me how to never end up in that situation again. They try to kind of brush it under the rug and avoid it. And I say, hold on.

Or at least they know how to leverage it once it happens, right? And so those negative outcomes that people come to me for, they're great opportunities. But what most people try to do is they say, hey, tell me how to never end up in that situation again. They try to kind of brush it under the rug and avoid it. And I say, hold on.

The way we're going to teach you how to not end up there again is to actually hyperanalyze it. We need to lean into the discomfort. We need to understand why did you end up finding yourself in that situation? And there are a lot of specific pieces of how I talk about that in the book, but I really make people break down.

The way we're going to teach you how to not end up there again is to actually hyperanalyze it. We need to lean into the discomfort. We need to understand why did you end up finding yourself in that situation? And there are a lot of specific pieces of how I talk about that in the book, but I really make people break down.

Like, okay, you blacked out, woke up in the morning, had a horrible fight with your wife and she's leaving you because you were an a-hole yesterday while you were drunk and at a party with friends, you said some really, really horrible and inappropriate things. Can we all understand for a second why you would want to never talk about that event again and brush it under the rug?

Like, okay, you blacked out, woke up in the morning, had a horrible fight with your wife and she's leaving you because you were an a-hole yesterday while you were drunk and at a party with friends, you said some really, really horrible and inappropriate things. Can we all understand for a second why you would want to never talk about that event again and brush it under the rug?

I mean, nobody would want to process it. But I say, when did that start? What was the stimulus? What started that process? Then perception is when a trigger, when something showed up in your life, how did the perception hit you? Like for you, if I don't want to be lonely, if I want people to like me, if I want to be accepted, I need to say yes and contribute to others, right?

I mean, nobody would want to process it. But I say, when did that start? What was the stimulus? What started that process? Then perception is when a trigger, when something showed up in your life, how did the perception hit you? Like for you, if I don't want to be lonely, if I want people to like me, if I want to be accepted, I need to say yes and contribute to others, right?

The activation with that disappearing or not being there could be fear. loneliness, negative self-perception, right? Things of like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and future projecting. And what you did at some point in your life in the past is you said, when I feel scared of being alone forever, I have responses. I look for somebody to help, right?

The activation with that disappearing or not being there could be fear. loneliness, negative self-perception, right? Things of like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and future projecting. And what you did at some point in your life in the past is you said, when I feel scared of being alone forever, I have responses. I look for somebody to help, right?

When I feel scared, I'm gonna be alone forever. I look at all my friends. I say, Hey, what do you need any help with anything right now? And that makes me feel better. it doesn't deal with your overcommitment. And so what you end up finding over and over and over is the main points of leverage that most people have are not in changing the behavior and they're not in avoiding the triggers.

When I feel scared, I'm gonna be alone forever. I look at all my friends. I say, Hey, what do you need any help with anything right now? And that makes me feel better. it doesn't deal with your overcommitment. And so what you end up finding over and over and over is the main points of leverage that most people have are not in changing the behavior and they're not in avoiding the triggers.

They're in shifting the perception and or learning how to control the activation. Those are the two biggest leverage point that you really have.

They're in shifting the perception and or learning how to control the activation. Those are the two biggest leverage point that you really have.

So if you grew up in a household where, and I'm actually just thinking in my head, this is just off the top of my head, but let me just show this is us.

So if you grew up in a household where, and I'm actually just thinking in my head, this is just off the top of my head, but let me just show this is us.

Yeah. We talk about this in graduate school all the time. Research is really me-search, right? Is you try to understand what the heck happened. And that was definitely true for me. I found myself, by the time I was a PhD student at UCLA, I had this, that was like phase three of my life.

Yeah. We talk about this in graduate school all the time. Research is really me-search, right? Is you try to understand what the heck happened. And that was definitely true for me. I found myself, by the time I was a PhD student at UCLA, I had this, that was like phase three of my life.

So phase one was as a kid growing up, up to 14 years old, same exact apartment, went to school across the street from my home, like super chill, good upbringing, right? You know, parents had issues, fought, not very emotional household, but I didn't have any big T trauma, it was pretty wholesome. 14 years old, I moved, had the exact same experience you did, Drew. super lonely and isolated.

So phase one was as a kid growing up, up to 14 years old, same exact apartment, went to school across the street from my home, like super chill, good upbringing, right? You know, parents had issues, fought, not very emotional household, but I didn't have any big T trauma, it was pretty wholesome. 14 years old, I moved, had the exact same experience you did, Drew. super lonely and isolated.

I felt socially anxious. I didn't speak the language well. The thing is you found giving to other people within three, four months of me being in the United States, I found alcohol. And so I went to a sleepaway camp, got introduced to vodka. Somebody handed me a disgusting, warm jug of vodka. And I took two swags off of it, just trying to be brave, look all cool in front of all the other kids.

I felt socially anxious. I didn't speak the language well. The thing is you found giving to other people within three, four months of me being in the United States, I found alcohol. And so I went to a sleepaway camp, got introduced to vodka. Somebody handed me a disgusting, warm jug of vodka. And I took two swags off of it, just trying to be brave, look all cool in front of all the other kids.

There was a scene where the daughter kind of feels really alienated from the mom. And the dad would always take her to ice cream when she was young. That was their bonding moment. That's how they would bond. Every single time he wanted to bond with his daughter, he would take her to ice cream.

There was a scene where the daughter kind of feels really alienated from the mom. And the dad would always take her to ice cream when she was young. That was their bonding moment. That's how they would bond. Every single time he wanted to bond with his daughter, he would take her to ice cream.

I had no idea what the vodka was going to do to me. But then 20 minutes later, I felt good. I wasn't afraid of being isolated at all.

I had no idea what the vodka was going to do to me. But then 20 minutes later, I felt good. I wasn't afraid of being isolated at all.

They were all drinking. It was great. You know, I felt more secure and more comfortable than I ever remember feeling, to be honest, until that moment. Now, I didn't know to call it anxiety, right? None of that stuff existed in my head. I just knew I felt better. After that trip, I took every opportunity. Every time I could get invited to a party, I would go.

They were all drinking. It was great. You know, I felt more secure and more comfortable than I ever remember feeling, to be honest, until that moment. Now, I didn't know to call it anxiety, right? None of that stuff existed in my head. I just knew I felt better. After that trip, I took every opportunity. Every time I could get invited to a party, I would go.

Now I got invited to parties where people are drinking. Alcohol became a thing. Then two years later, weed became a thing because a girl gave me a joint. Again, people pleasing, wanting to fit in, said yes. By the time I got to college at 18, I was drinking and smoking weed every single day. And it just kept progressing from there.

Now I got invited to parties where people are drinking. Alcohol became a thing. Then two years later, weed became a thing because a girl gave me a joint. Again, people pleasing, wanting to fit in, said yes. By the time I got to college at 18, I was drinking and smoking weed every single day. And it just kept progressing from there.

And you already alluded to it, but I started out in upstate New York. I ended up moving to Los Angeles by myself. I hated the cold in Buffalo, and so I moved myself out here. Still appreciate the weather like 20-some years later. But I was kind of disconnected from friends again, and I found harder drugs.

And you already alluded to it, but I started out in upstate New York. I ended up moving to Los Angeles by myself. I hated the cold in Buffalo, and so I moved myself out here. Still appreciate the weather like 20-some years later. But I was kind of disconnected from friends again, and I found harder drugs.

The group I connected with here wasn't smoking weed and drinking, although they did some of that. But it was coke. I didn't really like coke as much, but ecstasy, a lot of hallucinogens, all that kind of stuff. Started using that a lot, but it was really expensive. You know, $25 a pill for ecstasy. I didn't have money. I was out of state.

The group I connected with here wasn't smoking weed and drinking, although they did some of that. But it was coke. I didn't really like coke as much, but ecstasy, a lot of hallucinogens, all that kind of stuff. Started using that a lot, but it was really expensive. You know, $25 a pill for ecstasy. I didn't have money. I was out of state.

My parents paid tuition and said, everything else is up to you. So I was entrepreneurial. I found that if I can just collect everybody's money ahead of time and go buy together...

My parents paid tuition and said, everything else is up to you. So I was entrepreneurial. I found that if I can just collect everybody's money ahead of time and go buy together...

then i got my pills for free so i got to do drugs for free and then another little um insight hit me and i said oh my gosh if i can buy pills for the whole month for everybody i may even make a little money out of this borrowed some money from a friend three turns of that i was not buying 50 100 pills at a time selling them to friends i didn't think of myself as selling drugs i was just getting myself free drugs and then making a little bit of money off the top of them

then i got my pills for free so i got to do drugs for free and then another little um insight hit me and i said oh my gosh if i can buy pills for the whole month for everybody i may even make a little money out of this borrowed some money from a friend three turns of that i was not buying 50 100 pills at a time selling them to friends i didn't think of myself as selling drugs i was just getting myself free drugs and then making a little bit of money off the top of them

And then it just blew up. I mean, all my friends were telling all their friends that I have drugs. Next thing you know, I'm buying 300 pills, 400 pills, 500 pills, a thousand pills at a time. And by the time I graduated, barely like squeaked out 1999, 2000, graduating college, I was just a drug dealer.

And then it just blew up. I mean, all my friends were telling all their friends that I have drugs. Next thing you know, I'm buying 300 pills, 400 pills, 500 pills, a thousand pills at a time. And by the time I graduated, barely like squeaked out 1999, 2000, graduating college, I was just a drug dealer.

Everybody else was watching that show and thinking to themselves, man, that's really nice that he's got this moment with her. And I'm thinking to myself... He's developing a pattern where she connects connecting to dad, love, et cetera, to ice cream. Because that's the only time that they showed them connecting.

Everybody else was watching that show and thinking to themselves, man, that's really nice that he's got this moment with her. And I'm thinking to myself... He's developing a pattern where she connects connecting to dad, love, et cetera, to ice cream. Because that's the only time that they showed them connecting.

But things come with drug dealing that you don't think about when you start on this journey, like getting robbed. I got robbed at gunpoint a couple of times. My place got broken into. Cartel deals, like all the stuff that you literally see in the movies. I lived Breaking Bad, essentially, at least the first season before I went completely insane. That was my life.

But things come with drug dealing that you don't think about when you start on this journey, like getting robbed. I got robbed at gunpoint a couple of times. My place got broken into. Cartel deals, like all the stuff that you literally see in the movies. I lived Breaking Bad, essentially, at least the first season before I went completely insane. That was my life.

But it happened so gradually, I didn't really think much of it. And I was high the entire time. The book opens with the scene that brought an abrupt end to that. I got in a motorcycle accident, broke my leg. The cops found a half a pound of Coke on me. I think it was about a half a pound. And so they knew they needed to dig in deeper because that was pretty obvious.

But it happened so gradually, I didn't really think much of it. And I was high the entire time. The book opens with the scene that brought an abrupt end to that. I got in a motorcycle accident, broke my leg. The cops found a half a pound of Coke on me. I think it was about a half a pound. And so they knew they needed to dig in deeper because that was pretty obvious.

And for three months, everywhere I would go, they would try to get me to talk to them and give them connections, et cetera. I didn't. So then three months later, the Beverly Hills SWAT team came to my house to pay me a visit. And that's how the book opens up.

And for three months, everywhere I would go, they would try to get me to talk to them and give them connections, et cetera. I didn't. So then three months later, the Beverly Hills SWAT team came to my house to pay me a visit. And that's how the book opens up.

Meth was the drug that brought me down. I was a heavy, heavy user of meth, I'd say for about three to four years. And it got introduced as a study aid, by the way.

Meth was the drug that brought me down. I was a heavy, heavy user of meth, I'd say for about three to four years. And it got introduced as a study aid, by the way.

Yep. Once I discovered I can just literally teach myself a quarter worth of a class in two days, just being high on meth. And my ridiculous brain, I'll say at the time was like, oh, now I'm never going to go study without this. So that meant midterms and finals, that meant papers. And then literally within three to four months, I was using every day because I couldn't stay up if I didn't use meth.

Yep. Once I discovered I can just literally teach myself a quarter worth of a class in two days, just being high on meth. And my ridiculous brain, I'll say at the time was like, oh, now I'm never going to go study without this. So that meant midterms and finals, that meant papers. And then literally within three to four months, I was using every day because I couldn't stay up if I didn't use meth.

You know, it's a good question. I didn't know the answer to that for a very long time. And if I'm honest, in my still compulsive brain that made a lot of excuses for my behavior, etc., When I got out of the haze, I was like, what the hell was wrong with the people around me? Why didn't they talk about it? But first of all, my family, look, they had to know.

You know, it's a good question. I didn't know the answer to that for a very long time. And if I'm honest, in my still compulsive brain that made a lot of excuses for my behavior, etc., When I got out of the haze, I was like, what the hell was wrong with the people around me? Why didn't they talk about it? But first of all, my family, look, they had to know.

I was 124 pounds, Drew, when I got arrested, 124 pounds. There's no way anybody can imagine that an adult male would be 124 pounds and whatever, five foot nine and something. And my dad was a doctor. Obviously, he knew something was up. They told me years later, they thought I was addicted to heroin. And the reason was because I wouldn't use meth when I was around them.

I was 124 pounds, Drew, when I got arrested, 124 pounds. There's no way anybody can imagine that an adult male would be 124 pounds and whatever, five foot nine and something. And my dad was a doctor. Obviously, he knew something was up. They told me years later, they thought I was addicted to heroin. And the reason was because I wouldn't use meth when I was around them.

And so implicitly, without somebody actually being able to call it out, the connection between love, intimacy, appreciation, connection, and sugar and ice cream can be created. So these little tiny patterns, that's one piece.

And so implicitly, without somebody actually being able to call it out, the connection between love, intimacy, appreciation, connection, and sugar and ice cream can be created. So these little tiny patterns, that's one piece.

So I would be tired all the time. So they saw me on the other side and they thought it was heroin. But we never had a real conversation about it. And I think that's part of the reason why I write these books. It's part of the reason why I'm so forward about my story. Too many people are scared to talk about this stuff.

So I would be tired all the time. So they saw me on the other side and they thought it was heroin. But we never had a real conversation about it. And I think that's part of the reason why I write these books. It's part of the reason why I'm so forward about my story. Too many people are scared to talk about this stuff.

Too many people are weirded out by having real, I mean, they would tell me I'm living a loser life. They'd have that conversation, but nobody confronted me about the negative health consequences. Nobody confronted me about the fact that my life was looking pretty insane. To be fair, I'm not an idiot, so I'm also pretty good at covering it up, but I think the signs were unmistakable.

Too many people are weirded out by having real, I mean, they would tell me I'm living a loser life. They'd have that conversation, but nobody confronted me about the negative health consequences. Nobody confronted me about the fact that my life was looking pretty insane. To be fair, I'm not an idiot, so I'm also pretty good at covering it up, but I think the signs were unmistakable.

I talked to my sister, Sophie and I used to have a podcast, my wife, and I actually interviewed my sister for the podcast because I wanted to know what it was like for her.

I talked to my sister, Sophie and I used to have a podcast, my wife, and I actually interviewed my sister for the podcast because I wanted to know what it was like for her.

And that was one of those moments where I really got to have a little self-reckoning because the thing, and I think we can say this with people pleasing, we can say this with sugar addiction, we can say this with workaholism and those kinds of approaches. You don't always see, you feel the devastation on yourself. You feel yourself burning out. You feel that impact to some extent.

And that was one of those moments where I really got to have a little self-reckoning because the thing, and I think we can say this with people pleasing, we can say this with sugar addiction, we can say this with workaholism and those kinds of approaches. You don't always see, you feel the devastation on yourself. You feel yourself burning out. You feel that impact to some extent.

I don't think we're always aware of the impact we're having on other people. And I think that's where I talk about in the book, I split the world into like a half or a third of the people who struggle and the other half are the people who are affected by the people who struggle with these patterns.

I don't think we're always aware of the impact we're having on other people. And I think that's where I talk about in the book, I split the world into like a half or a third of the people who struggle and the other half are the people who are affected by the people who struggle with these patterns.

Because, and then maybe for them, people pleasing and codependency are kind of like their addiction, right? You know, even in your people pleasing. What does that not leave room for, right?

Because, and then maybe for them, people pleasing and codependency are kind of like their addiction, right? You know, even in your people pleasing. What does that not leave room for, right?

If you're in a relationship and you have somebody that you love and you care for, how are they being kind of forced out of spending time with you, of intimacy, et cetera, if you're constantly looking for more and more people to like you and to feel like you're connected to them, right? There's a consequence.

If you're in a relationship and you have somebody that you love and you care for, how are they being kind of forced out of spending time with you, of intimacy, et cetera, if you're constantly looking for more and more people to like you and to feel like you're connected to them, right? There's a consequence.

next are traumas actual difficult big t little t traumas but difficult life experiences that create anxieties fears negative self-impression etc in a person and again we're talking normally pretty early although for these i've definitely had clients where during college or later on in life that a substantial trauma think losing someone almost dying in a car accident right being assaulted sexually physically emotionally

next are traumas actual difficult big t little t traumas but difficult life experiences that create anxieties fears negative self-impression etc in a person and again we're talking normally pretty early although for these i've definitely had clients where during college or later on in life that a substantial trauma think losing someone almost dying in a car accident right being assaulted sexually physically emotionally

Yeah, and look, we're, I consider us fortunate, right? We live in an area where self-expansion and exploration and understanding these underlying words, that's kind of a, that's the price of entry almost.

Yeah, and look, we're, I consider us fortunate, right? We live in an area where self-expansion and exploration and understanding these underlying words, that's kind of a, that's the price of entry almost.

I feel like in living in LA, let alone, you know, being in a wellness community, et cetera, it's kind of like, it's almost, there's almost competition in terms of like, how far have you gone in self-exploration and self-development, right? But I think that's a counterpoint to many, many other areas in the world.

I feel like in living in LA, let alone, you know, being in a wellness community, et cetera, it's kind of like, it's almost, there's almost competition in terms of like, how far have you gone in self-exploration and self-development, right? But I think that's a counterpoint to many, many other areas in the world.

And that's what I talk about in the book a good bit is there are a lot of areas where the idea of talking about this internal turmoil, walking up to somebody that you kind of know, maybe... I've just met and actually talking about what's going on in your life, creating open intimacy and exploration or just being transparent, right?

And that's what I talk about in the book a good bit is there are a lot of areas where the idea of talking about this internal turmoil, walking up to somebody that you kind of know, maybe... I've just met and actually talking about what's going on in your life, creating open intimacy and exploration or just being transparent, right?

When somebody comes to you and says, hey, we heard you do A, B and C, could you help us with this project? To be able to pause and go, hey, you know what? That sounds great. It sounds like an amazing mission. To be honest, I'm stretched really, really thin right now. If you're okay, I have to say no right now. Check in with me in six months, a year.

When somebody comes to you and says, hey, we heard you do A, B and C, could you help us with this project? To be able to pause and go, hey, you know what? That sounds great. It sounds like an amazing mission. To be honest, I'm stretched really, really thin right now. If you're okay, I have to say no right now. Check in with me in six months, a year.

There's a couple of things that might wrap up by then. And then I'd be happy to talk about it again. Not even saying, but then I'd be happy to join. I'd be happy to explore it again. But right now, I just really have to protect my family, my time. There are probably people listening right now who cringe at the idea of saying that to another adult.

There's a couple of things that might wrap up by then. And then I'd be happy to talk about it again. Not even saying, but then I'd be happy to join. I'd be happy to explore it again. But right now, I just really have to protect my family, my time. There are probably people listening right now who cringe at the idea of saying that to another adult.

And you have to think for a second sometimes about what have we done in this world where admitting to somebody else you're at the end of your rope, admitting to somebody else that you're overstretched, that you're stressed, that you're... Maybe you have a problem. I jumped on a call with a person I love. I really care about them a lot. We're doing a really cool project together.

And you have to think for a second sometimes about what have we done in this world where admitting to somebody else you're at the end of your rope, admitting to somebody else that you're overstretched, that you're stressed, that you're... Maybe you have a problem. I jumped on a call with a person I love. I really care about them a lot. We're doing a really cool project together.

And as a call opened up, I was going through some personal stuff and I said, hey, just FYI, there's a lot going on at home right now. Kids, wife, all this stuff. I have three kids. It's a complex life. So just so you know, I'm about half here on this call right now today. So if you're okay with it, I know you're scheduled for 45 minutes. I'm probably gonna need to cut in like 15, 20.

And as a call opened up, I was going through some personal stuff and I said, hey, just FYI, there's a lot going on at home right now. Kids, wife, all this stuff. I have three kids. It's a complex life. So just so you know, I'm about half here on this call right now today. So if you're okay with it, I know you're scheduled for 45 minutes. I'm probably gonna need to cut in like 15, 20.

Nobody was bothered by it. We picked it up next week. It was all good. But it took me probably drew 15 years of work to get to a place where I can open up a conversation like that and feel confident that I haven't shot those relationships, right? That people aren't going to talk about me behind my back, that I haven't screwed up somehow.

Nobody was bothered by it. We picked it up next week. It was all good. But it took me probably drew 15 years of work to get to a place where I can open up a conversation like that and feel confident that I haven't shot those relationships, right? That people aren't going to talk about me behind my back, that I haven't screwed up somehow.

Shame is... when our internal representation of who we are, what we mean in the world, our value feels like it is in contrast, stands against what people expect of us or how we should behave. So I'm not as good, what I want to do is not as valued as what society believes I should be, right? So think about people who have historically been shamed, right?

Shame is... when our internal representation of who we are, what we mean in the world, our value feels like it is in contrast, stands against what people expect of us or how we should behave. So I'm not as good, what I want to do is not as valued as what society believes I should be, right? So think about people who have historically been shamed, right?

It's like races, sexual orientation, now there's a whole trans thing. people who feel like who they are. It's not about what you do or what you like or what books you read. It's about who you are as an entity. being less than or being looked down at by society at large, by the norm. Does that make sense?

It's like races, sexual orientation, now there's a whole trans thing. people who feel like who they are. It's not about what you do or what you like or what books you read. It's about who you are as an entity. being less than or being looked down at by society at large, by the norm. Does that make sense?

So a big part of the first third of the book, I would say, is about getting people to understand that in order for shame to play such a prominent role in any struggle, forget just addiction, in any struggle that you have, you have to believe that what you are struggling with is abnormal. That it's a sign of your brokenness. It's a sign of you being damaged.

So a big part of the first third of the book, I would say, is about getting people to understand that in order for shame to play such a prominent role in any struggle, forget just addiction, in any struggle that you have, you have to believe that what you are struggling with is abnormal. That it's a sign of your brokenness. It's a sign of you being damaged.

That's another piece. And then the last one that I really want to hit are all of us have negative self-perception, negative struggles, internal kind of struggles that we have that may not be trauma-based, self-judgment that can lead to something like people pleasing, right? Or those components.

That's another piece. And then the last one that I really want to hit are all of us have negative self-perception, negative struggles, internal kind of struggles that we have that may not be trauma-based, self-judgment that can lead to something like people pleasing, right? Or those components.

The reality is there's somewhere between 60 and 100, I know it's a large gap, but 60 and 100 million people struggling with compulsive addictive tendencies in this country. The reason the gap is so big is 40 to 50 is probably the drug and alcohol, the ones we keep track of because of research, but that doesn't include sex. That doesn't really include food addiction.

The reality is there's somewhere between 60 and 100, I know it's a large gap, but 60 and 100 million people struggling with compulsive addictive tendencies in this country. The reason the gap is so big is 40 to 50 is probably the drug and alcohol, the ones we keep track of because of research, but that doesn't include sex. That doesn't really include food addiction.

It doesn't include a lot of other behavioral interaction. So I would argue at least at the 60, 70, if you're willing to be a little broader about it, 80, 90 to 100 million. If you go to even just to the 60, 70 million people, that's about a third of adults, a little less than a third of adults, a quarter of adults in the country who struggle.

It doesn't include a lot of other behavioral interaction. So I would argue at least at the 60, 70, if you're willing to be a little broader about it, 80, 90 to 100 million. If you go to even just to the 60, 70 million people, that's about a third of adults, a little less than a third of adults, a quarter of adults in the country who struggle.

If you want to stretch the number to the higher numbers, that's about half of adults. How can we say that something is abnormal where between a quarter to a half of the people in this country who are adults struggle with it right now? And the reason I want to renormalize these struggles is when you feel shame, you feel like there's something wrong about who you are.

If you want to stretch the number to the higher numbers, that's about half of adults. How can we say that something is abnormal where between a quarter to a half of the people in this country who are adults struggle with it right now? And the reason I want to renormalize these struggles is when you feel shame, you feel like there's something wrong about who you are.

It is really hard to put in the work for change when you believe you're broken, when you believe there's something that's not good about you. You alluded to my story. I fully believed that

It is really hard to put in the work for change when you believe you're broken, when you believe there's something that's not good about you. You alluded to my story. I fully believed that

i had something kind of broken something about my brain wasn't working appropriately by the way traditional treatment approaches repeated that to me over and over and over right uh i'll use 12 steps just as an example because there's a possible for everything right there's probably over readers anonymous or something um that might be a stretch but like there's over eaters anonymous right there's gambling anonymous there's all these for all these different issues that we talk about so there's a really broad swath

i had something kind of broken something about my brain wasn't working appropriately by the way traditional treatment approaches repeated that to me over and over and over right uh i'll use 12 steps just as an example because there's a possible for everything right there's probably over readers anonymous or something um that might be a stretch but like there's over eaters anonymous right there's gambling anonymous there's all these for all these different issues that we talk about so there's a really broad swath

But the understanding is that you have a disease that you've had your whole life and it's chronic and you're never going to leave it. I think that's the absolute wrong take for a lot of people because a lot of people stay out. They don't get the help they need because they say, well, if I'm damaged, I'm broken forever, then why even put in the work? The way I see it is totally different.

But the understanding is that you have a disease that you've had your whole life and it's chronic and you're never going to leave it. I think that's the absolute wrong take for a lot of people because a lot of people stay out. They don't get the help they need because they say, well, if I'm damaged, I'm broken forever, then why even put in the work? The way I see it is totally different.

And I'll go back to the story you told us. If I can track somebody's starting point of their journey to today, Their behavior makes all the sense in the world. And so why not take that time trip back, go address the underlying issues. Sometimes they're difficult, Drew, right? I've dealt with people. I mean, I talk about some of these in the book.

And I'll go back to the story you told us. If I can track somebody's starting point of their journey to today, Their behavior makes all the sense in the world. And so why not take that time trip back, go address the underlying issues. Sometimes they're difficult, Drew, right? I've dealt with people. I mean, I talk about some of these in the book.

I've dealt with people who've had massive historical trauma. You don't have to have these issues, but a lot of people do. Let's go fix the damage created by these things. Let's go address them at a deep level. Not only do you get relief from these behavioral patterns that you're trying to change, you get to be happy with yourself. And you sound like somebody who's done some of this work.

I've dealt with people who've had massive historical trauma. You don't have to have these issues, but a lot of people do. Let's go fix the damage created by these things. Let's go address them at a deep level. Not only do you get relief from these behavioral patterns that you're trying to change, you get to be happy with yourself. And you sound like somebody who's done some of this work.

Once you found out that you have these patterns yourself, the relief is not only by not overcommitting. The relief is partially because you get to walk around knowing that Not hoping, not believing that there is, knowing your own intrinsic value. And I think that's worth all the work in the world.

Once you found out that you have these patterns yourself, the relief is not only by not overcommitting. The relief is partially because you get to walk around knowing that Not hoping, not believing that there is, knowing your own intrinsic value. And I think that's worth all the work in the world.

Yeah, I'm not good enough. I'm always going to be alone. The world is a dark place. I got to be out for myself. Like I have a list of them actually in a whole section of the book that I've seen come up Pretty frequently, I'm not good enough. Nobody's going to love me. I'm going to be alone. And the world is dark. I need to care for myself and not other people are very, very common ones.

Yeah, I'm not good enough. I'm always going to be alone. The world is a dark place. I got to be out for myself. Like I have a list of them actually in a whole section of the book that I've seen come up Pretty frequently, I'm not good enough. Nobody's going to love me. I'm going to be alone. And the world is dark. I need to care for myself and not other people are very, very common ones.

Yeah, 100%. And I'll fill in the story partially because Like I said, my story doesn't have big T traumas and yet it led to the kind of issues that it has. And I've done, you know, 15 years of work analyzing it so I can talk about some very specific components. So I already mentioned this to some extent, but I lived with a family. Both my parents worked. My dad was gone all the time, actually.

Yeah, 100%. And I'll fill in the story partially because Like I said, my story doesn't have big T traumas and yet it led to the kind of issues that it has. And I've done, you know, 15 years of work analyzing it so I can talk about some very specific components. So I already mentioned this to some extent, but I lived with a family. Both my parents worked. My dad was gone all the time, actually.

I mean, all the time. He worked two to three jobs at all times. I literally would see him for breakfast on Saturdays and then on family trips. And then every once in a while he would be home, you know, military service, all these other things. rarely saw my father when we lived in Israel. So I was raised by my mom, and I was a latchkey kid.

I mean, all the time. He worked two to three jobs at all times. I literally would see him for breakfast on Saturdays and then on family trips. And then every once in a while he would be home, you know, military service, all these other things. rarely saw my father when we lived in Israel. So I was raised by my mom, and I was a latchkey kid.

So I would come home, I would pick up my sister from work, and I became really, really independent. One of the things that was just true in my family always, no discussion of emotion. This is true to this day, other than my sister and I, who have done a lot of work to get to the other side of this.

So I would come home, I would pick up my sister from work, and I became really, really independent. One of the things that was just true in my family always, no discussion of emotion. This is true to this day, other than my sister and I, who have done a lot of work to get to the other side of this.

but i've run an experiment i feel bad if my mom ever listens to these podcasts because i've talked about this on multiple podcasts but i've run now an experiment for eight to ten years i think i have to look back but i think it just flipped it took about 10 years for what i'm about to say to flip i had my first kid he's now 14 years old but i said to my wife to sophie um how awkward it felt to say i love you in hebrew because it wasn't said to me ever

but i've run an experiment i feel bad if my mom ever listens to these podcasts because i've talked about this on multiple podcasts but i've run now an experiment for eight to ten years i think i have to look back but i think it just flipped it took about 10 years for what i'm about to say to flip i had my first kid he's now 14 years old but i said to my wife to sophie um how awkward it felt to say i love you in hebrew because it wasn't said to me ever

Like I did not know the words. I knew how they fit in sequence. I've seen other people say them. I understand what the sentence means. Nobody said that to me growing up. My parents just didn't come from that generation. My mom was born to a Holocaust survivor, right? Her mom and three of her brothers and three of her siblings, I mean, made it out of Poland during World War II.

Like I did not know the words. I knew how they fit in sequence. I've seen other people say them. I understand what the sentence means. Nobody said that to me growing up. My parents just didn't come from that generation. My mom was born to a Holocaust survivor, right? Her mom and three of her brothers and three of her siblings, I mean, made it out of Poland during World War II.

And so if any of those three categories of things that I just mentioned are happening to you regularly in your life, what you can end up finding is You can find yourself in anxiety, fear, depression, loneliness, isolation at different points.

And so if any of those three categories of things that I just mentioned are happening to you regularly in your life, what you can end up finding is You can find yourself in anxiety, fear, depression, loneliness, isolation at different points.

Half the rest of the family never made it home to Israel. They just didn't show up. They weren't the, I love you generation. You know, my dad, his family was Scandinavian. They were like, Hey, if you checked your boxes, you're successful. You became a doctor, whatever. We're good. Right. You got food. That's how, you know, I love you. I grew up in that environment.

Half the rest of the family never made it home to Israel. They just didn't show up. They weren't the, I love you generation. You know, my dad, his family was Scandinavian. They were like, Hey, if you checked your boxes, you're successful. You became a doctor, whatever. We're good. Right. You got food. That's how, you know, I love you. I grew up in that environment.

There are a lot of people who grew up in that environment. It just didn't prepare me for any, for dealing with any emotions. Then my dad left us, um, to what I thought was the only experience that he had that was infidelity for my mom in the relationship. I found out after he passed that that was not true at all, which mirrors some aspects of my own life later. But he left us.

There are a lot of people who grew up in that environment. It just didn't prepare me for any, for dealing with any emotions. Then my dad left us, um, to what I thought was the only experience that he had that was infidelity for my mom in the relationship. I found out after he passed that that was not true at all, which mirrors some aspects of my own life later. But he left us.

Like one day I woke up and my mom was like,

Like one day I woke up and my mom was like,

know dad's gone i was like he's always gone but it's like who cares you know he's never home she said no no like he's gone he's not coming back lost it my world kind of fell upside down now again 50 of kids deal with divorces right you you create a world view where everything is normal after it because it is for you it's the new norm my dad actually came back a couple i think it was a couple of weeks later and just lived with us drew nobody talked about it

know dad's gone i was like he's always gone but it's like who cares you know he's never home she said no no like he's gone he's not coming back lost it my world kind of fell upside down now again 50 of kids deal with divorces right you you create a world view where everything is normal after it because it is for you it's the new norm my dad actually came back a couple i think it was a couple of weeks later and just lived with us drew nobody talked about it

Nobody was even like, hey, dad is back. Dad was just in his room one day again. And nobody mentioned it. It messed with my head. My mom would talk to me ad nauseum all the time when I was a kid. Maybe that's why I became a psychologist about all their struggles. I'm like eight or nine years old, right?

Nobody was even like, hey, dad is back. Dad was just in his room one day again. And nobody mentioned it. It messed with my head. My mom would talk to me ad nauseum all the time when I was a kid. Maybe that's why I became a psychologist about all their struggles. I'm like eight or nine years old, right?

So those were my internal, you know, I mentioned the habits of things you absorb from your environment. That's what I absorbed. Deep resiliency and maybe overexposure to adulting as a young kid. Dealing with the betrayal from my dad. I hated him until I was 25 years old. No outlet to talk about emotions, right? I couldn't, there was nowhere to process this stuff.

So those were my internal, you know, I mentioned the habits of things you absorb from your environment. That's what I absorbed. Deep resiliency and maybe overexposure to adulting as a young kid. Dealing with the betrayal from my dad. I hated him until I was 25 years old. No outlet to talk about emotions, right? I couldn't, there was nowhere to process this stuff.

And then in the face of all that, so by the way, I started rebelling against my dad strongly when he was back. Because in my head, I won't swear on this show, but in my head, I was like, you a-hole, right? Now why are you even back? You left us, look at what you did to my mom, all that kind of stuff. So that's the energy that I had when we moved to the States.

And then in the face of all that, so by the way, I started rebelling against my dad strongly when he was back. Because in my head, I won't swear on this show, but in my head, I was like, you a-hole, right? Now why are you even back? You left us, look at what you did to my mom, all that kind of stuff. So that's the energy that I had when we moved to the States.

Really disconnected from my dad, et cetera. And then the last piece that I'll say, My dad was a very high achiever. My entire life, I was always told about how good he was, showing me like athletics, et cetera. And achievement was the number one thing in our household. And so I remember, I think I was in third grade or something like that. I was eight or nine years old.

Really disconnected from my dad, et cetera. And then the last piece that I'll say, My dad was a very high achiever. My entire life, I was always told about how good he was, showing me like athletics, et cetera. And achievement was the number one thing in our household. And so I remember, I think I was in third grade or something like that. I was eight or nine years old.

And what you learn to do is you learn to deal with those negative feelings because we don't live in a society where saying that to people around you is actually really easy and simple. So you learn to cover them up, but they're not easy to cover up. So you cover them up with anxiety.

And what you learn to do is you learn to deal with those negative feelings because we don't live in a society where saying that to people around you is actually really easy and simple. So you learn to cover them up, but they're not easy to cover up. So you cover them up with anxiety.

I came home with a 97 on a math test. And my dad's first question was what happened to the other three points? And in my head, up until he said that sentence, I walked in like, oh my God, look, I got a 97. And when he said that, and he could have been joking, by the way, Drew. He could have said, oh, wow. He could have in his head been thinking, 97 is great. Let's see what we can do even better.

I came home with a 97 on a math test. And my dad's first question was what happened to the other three points? And in my head, up until he said that sentence, I walked in like, oh my God, look, I got a 97. And when he said that, and he could have been joking, by the way, Drew. He could have said, oh, wow. He could have in his head been thinking, 97 is great. Let's see what we can do even better.

I don't know what he meant. What I heard was you didn't get 100. So I'm not celebrating it. Let's figure out where we can make things better. And what landed in my head is perfection is the only good. Everything other than perfection is not. And so I lived that way for a few years. But then when I started rebelling against my dad, I pulled a 180, man. I was like, Oh, you want to see perfection?

I don't know what he meant. What I heard was you didn't get 100. So I'm not celebrating it. Let's figure out where we can make things better. And what landed in my head is perfection is the only good. Everything other than perfection is not. And so I lived that way for a few years. But then when I started rebelling against my dad, I pulled a 180, man. I was like, Oh, you want to see perfection?

I'll show you the opposite, right? I was in the lower 50th percentile graduating from my high school. I had like a 2.9 GPA graduating from UCLA in undergrad, which is like, if you calculate, it's like a B minus C plus average. I kind of wanted to almost, you did people pleasing. I went the other way. I rebelled against everything that my dad found important.

I'll show you the opposite, right? I was in the lower 50th percentile graduating from my high school. I had like a 2.9 GPA graduating from UCLA in undergrad, which is like, if you calculate, it's like a B minus C plus average. I kind of wanted to almost, you did people pleasing. I went the other way. I rebelled against everything that my dad found important.

And I think that's part of how I got to drugs.

And I think that's part of how I got to drugs.

behaviors, substances, et cetera, that allow you to at least pretend like you feel normal, or maybe even numb the pain to an extent where you become unaware of it.

behaviors, substances, et cetera, that allow you to at least pretend like you feel normal, or maybe even numb the pain to an extent where you become unaware of it.

That's what people showed me. I mean, I love that you got to this place because I'm not saying that if you believe you're broken, you can't get better. That's not what I'm saying, but it makes it harder. Because, you know, so perception is a second step in my sparrow loop, right? Stimulus, perception.

That's what people showed me. I mean, I love that you got to this place because I'm not saying that if you believe you're broken, you can't get better. That's not what I'm saying, but it makes it harder. Because, you know, so perception is a second step in my sparrow loop, right? Stimulus, perception.

I talk about the book, man, I hope, I wish I would have found this book when I started doing this work instead of getting to it myself and then learning about Carol Dweck's book, Mindset.

I talk about the book, man, I hope, I wish I would have found this book when I started doing this work instead of getting to it myself and then learning about Carol Dweck's book, Mindset.

But if what I'm about to talk about right now is difficult for you and you don't struggle with addiction, you just want to understand this concept alone, Carol Dweck's book, Mindset, which she's an amazing researcher doing this work, will be really, really good for you. I allude to it in the book and I use citations from it, et cetera.

But if what I'm about to talk about right now is difficult for you and you don't struggle with addiction, you just want to understand this concept alone, Carol Dweck's book, Mindset, which she's an amazing researcher doing this work, will be really, really good for you. I allude to it in the book and I use citations from it, et cetera.

Lots of citations in the book, by the way, a lot of research if you want to follow up on stuff. The mindset book suggests that a lot of us have, it's a longer continuum, but we have fixed mindsets or growth mindsets. Now she picked growth versus changing mindsets on purpose because it biases you in a specific direction. But if you say to yourself, like, are you good at math or are you bad at math?

Lots of citations in the book, by the way, a lot of research if you want to follow up on stuff. The mindset book suggests that a lot of us have, it's a longer continuum, but we have fixed mindsets or growth mindsets. Now she picked growth versus changing mindsets on purpose because it biases you in a specific direction. But if you say to yourself, like, are you good at math or are you bad at math?

Okay. So I set you up with that question on purpose. But a lot of people say, I'm good at math. I'm bad at math. You're not great at it. I'm bad at English. I'm good at English. I hate this. I love that, right? We have preferences. We have biases. We have leanings. Whether you say you're good at something or you're bad at something, what you're suggesting is a fixed mindset. I am this thing.

Okay. So I set you up with that question on purpose. But a lot of people say, I'm good at math. I'm bad at math. You're not great at it. I'm bad at English. I'm good at English. I hate this. I love that, right? We have preferences. We have biases. We have leanings. Whether you say you're good at something or you're bad at something, what you're suggesting is a fixed mindset. I am this thing.

I am not, I struggle sometimes when I do math, right? I am bad at math. But whether you have a fixed mindset that you're good at something or bad at something, what it creates in your head is this notion that you're stuck. This is where you are, this is how you've been. And you hear sometimes people talking like this all the time, right?

I am not, I struggle sometimes when I do math, right? I am bad at math. But whether you have a fixed mindset that you're good at something or bad at something, what it creates in your head is this notion that you're stuck. This is where you are, this is how you've been. And you hear sometimes people talking like this all the time, right?

Where they declare what they're good at, what they're bad at, what they can do, what they can't do. What that creates in your mind is a notion that you're like the static entity that just will always be the same in the world. And it's not true. So many things about us are changeable. I can't change your eye color, you know, without contacts, but I can with contacts, right?

Where they declare what they're good at, what they're bad at, what they can do, what they can't do. What that creates in your mind is a notion that you're like the static entity that just will always be the same in the world. And it's not true. So many things about us are changeable. I can't change your eye color, you know, without contacts, but I can with contacts, right?

I think that's probably one of the best short ways to explain the underlying message. Joseph Campbell has a quote that I quote in the book that I love. The cave you fear the most is the one that holds your treasure. It's from a hero of a thousand faces.

I think that's probably one of the best short ways to explain the underlying message. Joseph Campbell has a quote that I quote in the book that I love. The cave you fear the most is the one that holds your treasure. It's from a hero of a thousand faces.

I mean, look, there are people who have lost limbs, people who've had massive physical injuries and have come back. The same is possible for you psychologically and emotionally. But what you just pointed out about your mom and where she grew up, The problem is we developed this landscape of the world and we now project ourselves into the world in that way.

I mean, look, there are people who have lost limbs, people who've had massive physical injuries and have come back. The same is possible for you psychologically and emotionally. But what you just pointed out about your mom and where she grew up, The problem is we developed this landscape of the world and we now project ourselves into the world in that way.

So your mom, I'm just going to use this example of her not hugging and not being a big touch person, which wasn't true in my family either. We didn't really hug at all. You then got into the world and you don't hug a lot of people. Because that's not something you're used to. Now, if you meet somebody who does, there may be like a clash.

So your mom, I'm just going to use this example of her not hugging and not being a big touch person, which wasn't true in my family either. We didn't really hug at all. You then got into the world and you don't hug a lot of people. Because that's not something you're used to. Now, if you meet somebody who does, there may be like a clash.

It may literally, you become uncomfortable because they want to touch you. They think you're not nice because you don't want to be hugged, right? Like it creates conflict. Too many of us, when we live in the middle of one of these episodes, unfortunately in society, I feel like if more people understand what I want to say, maybe the world will become a slightly better place.

It may literally, you become uncomfortable because they want to touch you. They think you're not nice because you don't want to be hugged, right? Like it creates conflict. Too many of us, when we live in the middle of one of these episodes, unfortunately in society, I feel like if more people understand what I want to say, maybe the world will become a slightly better place.

We underappreciate how malleable we really are. So I give the sponge example in the book, you absorbed a lot of your reality about what is good, what is bad, what you should do, what you shouldn't do, who you should like, who you shouldn't like, all that stuff, politics from an early age. And you absorbed it because that's what was available. That's where you could model.

We underappreciate how malleable we really are. So I give the sponge example in the book, you absorbed a lot of your reality about what is good, what is bad, what you should do, what you shouldn't do, who you should like, who you shouldn't like, all that stuff, politics from an early age. And you absorbed it because that's what was available. That's where you could model.

That doesn't mean you can't expose yourself to new information. That doesn't mean you can't meet new people and become a different version of yourself. And when you understand this growth mindset idea, you don't feel stuck anymore. You don't feel broken.

That doesn't mean you can't expose yourself to new information. That doesn't mean you can't meet new people and become a different version of yourself. And when you understand this growth mindset idea, you don't feel stuck anymore. You don't feel broken.

You may have learned how to do the wrong thing and that has led you to people pleasing or led you to eating too much or led you to drinking too much or watching too much porn, right? Whatever that is for you. Okay. then learn new things. Immerse yourself in new environments. Be with people who know how to behave and you can model to become a slightly different version of yourself.

You may have learned how to do the wrong thing and that has led you to people pleasing or led you to eating too much or led you to drinking too much or watching too much porn, right? Whatever that is for you. Okay. then learn new things. Immerse yourself in new environments. Be with people who know how to behave and you can model to become a slightly different version of yourself.

We know change is the only constant. The exact same thing is true with who we are.

We know change is the only constant. The exact same thing is true with who we are.

And if you want to finish it, I can do the quote. Anybody can beat their addiction to anything. You just have to be willing to become somebody who's not addicted. And when people hear that first, they either get really, really angry or it gives a massive relief because if you don't believe you can change the idea that you have to become somebody else can become really confrontational.

And if you want to finish it, I can do the quote. Anybody can beat their addiction to anything. You just have to be willing to become somebody who's not addicted. And when people hear that first, they either get really, really angry or it gives a massive relief because if you don't believe you can change the idea that you have to become somebody else can become really confrontational.

And essentially what he's saying is it's a colloquial way to say what you just said right now, right, Drew, which is you've been running away from something. That thing is going to keep chasing you. It's not going to let you go. There is no way to run away from it.

And essentially what he's saying is it's a colloquial way to say what you just said right now, right, Drew, which is you've been running away from something. That thing is going to keep chasing you. It's not going to let you go. There is no way to run away from it.

But for people who understand, You know, what is the Gandhi quote? Your values become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your, I think, your reality or who you are. Sorry, Gandhi, for messing up your paraphrase quote. But how you see the world, the way you approach it, creates who you are.

But for people who understand, You know, what is the Gandhi quote? Your values become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your, I think, your reality or who you are. Sorry, Gandhi, for messing up your paraphrase quote. But how you see the world, the way you approach it, creates who you are.

And we can change. We do change all the time. The question is, do you want to be reactive? and change as the world tells you what it needs from you? Or do you want to be proactive and spend some time thinking, okay, I don't like where my life ended up. I'll go back to eat, explore. Why?

And we can change. We do change all the time. The question is, do you want to be reactive? and change as the world tells you what it needs from you? Or do you want to be proactive and spend some time thinking, okay, I don't like where my life ended up. I'll go back to eat, explore. Why?

why do i not like this why do i end up in these fights with my wife i love your wife's response by the way before that's great and shows very um self-assured conflict resolution within her right because she didn't have to protect herself and defend herself she just said hold on let me let me think about this i appreciate you bringing this to my attention but if you can sit there and say i don't like the pattern my life is working out to to showcase me and i don't like living in it why explore

why do i not like this why do i end up in these fights with my wife i love your wife's response by the way before that's great and shows very um self-assured conflict resolution within her right because she didn't have to protect herself and defend herself she just said hold on let me let me think about this i appreciate you bringing this to my attention but if you can sit there and say i don't like the pattern my life is working out to to showcase me and i don't like living in it why explore

Oh, there are these things that I do. There are these patterns. This way I process information. This way I take things personally. This way I overcommit. Got it. That's the exploration phase. Next, accept. I don't do these things because I'm broken. I don't do these things because there's something wrong with my head. Quite the opposite.

Oh, there are these things that I do. There are these patterns. This way I process information. This way I take things personally. This way I overcommit. Got it. That's the exploration phase. Next, accept. I don't do these things because I'm broken. I don't do these things because there's something wrong with my head. Quite the opposite.

I actually do these things because they worked for really, really long. My brain did exactly what it was meant to do when I was at risk, when I was isolated, when I needed friends and I kept moving. My brain did exactly what it needed to do back then. It's just that doesn't serve me anymore. Except, okay. I behaved in a way that was appropriate for when it started. It's not appropriate anymore.

I actually do these things because they worked for really, really long. My brain did exactly what it was meant to do when I was at risk, when I was isolated, when I needed friends and I kept moving. My brain did exactly what it needed to do back then. It's just that doesn't serve me anymore. Except, okay. I behaved in a way that was appropriate for when it started. It's not appropriate anymore.

I need to change. How do I change? That's transform. That's the last T in eat. Okay. I don't know how to do this. If I knew how to do this, I would stop eating the sugar. I would stop over committing, right? That would be easy. I need to learn new tools. But the tools are not to stop eating sugar. The tools are to deal with the discomfort that I discovered I have.

I need to change. How do I change? That's transform. That's the last T in eat. Okay. I don't know how to do this. If I knew how to do this, I would stop eating the sugar. I would stop over committing, right? That would be easy. I need to learn new tools. But the tools are not to stop eating sugar. The tools are to deal with the discomfort that I discovered I have.

And now, one example that I give people, a lot of people, let's say, if they're struggling with sugar, they may listen to health podcasts or read books about how to eat better. But if they're doing emotional eating, if what I'm saying is correct, you don't need a book on how to eat better. You need a book on how to feel like you're worthy. You need a book on how to fit in better.

And now, one example that I give people, a lot of people, let's say, if they're struggling with sugar, they may listen to health podcasts or read books about how to eat better. But if they're doing emotional eating, if what I'm saying is correct, you don't need a book on how to eat better. You need a book on how to feel like you're worthy. You need a book on how to fit in better.

You will take on whatever behavior, whatever habits, whatever relationships in your life, whatever ways of understanding the world to excuse running away from the discomfort. But the only thing to do is to stop, face it, deal with it, and resolve it. And once you do that, you find yourself not having to run anymore.

You will take on whatever behavior, whatever habits, whatever relationships in your life, whatever ways of understanding the world to excuse running away from the discomfort. But the only thing to do is to stop, face it, deal with it, and resolve it. And once you do that, you find yourself not having to run anymore.

You need a book on how to feel more confident speaking in public, right? I'll give an example in the book of somebody who she would throw up every time she would have to come speak in public. I think most people would try to figure out a way to deal with that.

You need a book on how to feel more confident speaking in public, right? I'll give an example in the book of somebody who she would throw up every time she would have to come speak in public. I think most people would try to figure out a way to deal with that.

So now you're going to, I don't know, Andrew Huberman to read about self-assurance or to read about biological rhythms and how to have a better wake up morning. You're not reading about the behavior that you came in struggling with for. And I think this is a big unlock for a lot of people.

So now you're going to, I don't know, Andrew Huberman to read about self-assurance or to read about biological rhythms and how to have a better wake up morning. You're not reading about the behavior that you came in struggling with for. And I think this is a big unlock for a lot of people.

100%.

100%.

Yeah, great question, man. So, you know, when my lawyer said to me, if we don't get you to rehab, he was like, if I don't clean this up before we go to the judge, you're looking at decades in prison, like 15, 20 years in prison. And so he knew how to talk to me, not in a judgmental way that said, man, you're addicted badly. You need to go get help.

Yeah, great question, man. So, you know, when my lawyer said to me, if we don't get you to rehab, he was like, if I don't clean this up before we go to the judge, you're looking at decades in prison, like 15, 20 years in prison. And so he knew how to talk to me, not in a judgmental way that said, man, you're addicted badly. You need to go get help.

it was very purpose-driven, it was very utilitarian. He said, if we don't do this, you're gonna really suffer the consequences. So I went to rehab, but speaking of the roller coaster you spoke to, I went to rehab because I wanted to not spend time in prison. I still didn't know how to not use drugs. I still didn't know how to be humble. I still didn't know how to have an open mind.

it was very purpose-driven, it was very utilitarian. He said, if we don't do this, you're gonna really suffer the consequences. So I went to rehab, but speaking of the roller coaster you spoke to, I went to rehab because I wanted to not spend time in prison. I still didn't know how to not use drugs. I still didn't know how to be humble. I still didn't know how to have an open mind.

I still didn't understand growth mindset. I was stuck thinking, well, this is who I am. Let me get out of prison and figure out the rest later, right? I got eight years, but I got them in what's called a one plus seven. So one year that I had to serve, and then I got a seven year suspended sentence, which meant if I screw up during that one year on probation, I get another seven years.

I still didn't understand growth mindset. I was stuck thinking, well, this is who I am. Let me get out of prison and figure out the rest later, right? I got eight years, but I got them in what's called a one plus seven. So one year that I had to serve, and then I got a seven year suspended sentence, which meant if I screw up during that one year on probation, I get another seven years.

So it was kind of, I call it the sort of Democles. It kind of just hung over my head to make sure I behaved properly. In the same manner that I say it's these back against the wall moments that serve you as growth opportunities, I still think that ends up being true. The only caveat I give in the book is psychedelic experiences.

So it was kind of, I call it the sort of Democles. It kind of just hung over my head to make sure I behaved properly. In the same manner that I say it's these back against the wall moments that serve you as growth opportunities, I still think that ends up being true. The only caveat I give in the book is psychedelic experiences.

That's the only thing that I've seen provide people the same frame shift, the same perspective change that a back against the wall moment opens up in you. Not everybody's comfortable with that. Ketamine is the only legal version of that to pursue right now in the country. So unless you're in an MDMA study or a psilocybin study. So we'll speak to the back against the wall moments.

That's the only thing that I've seen provide people the same frame shift, the same perspective change that a back against the wall moment opens up in you. Not everybody's comfortable with that. Ketamine is the only legal version of that to pursue right now in the country. So unless you're in an MDMA study or a psilocybin study. So we'll speak to the back against the wall moments.

The thing is you get to choose how badly you get cornered. It could be a fight with your wife and not even a threat of leaving, just like a quick discomfort, you know, around a debate, a conversation that is uncomfortable. If you're willing, like your wife was in that conversation, I love that you gave that example, right? Because

The thing is you get to choose how badly you get cornered. It could be a fight with your wife and not even a threat of leaving, just like a quick discomfort, you know, around a debate, a conversation that is uncomfortable. If you're willing, like your wife was in that conversation, I love that you gave that example, right? Because

How many people have that conversation with their partner saying, hey, sweetie, you know, every time you ask me the question about work, I feel like you check out and you don't really care, which makes me not want to answer you at all. How many people then turn that around and make it a fight?

How many people have that conversation with their partner saying, hey, sweetie, you know, every time you ask me the question about work, I feel like you check out and you don't really care, which makes me not want to answer you at all. How many people then turn that around and make it a fight?

I'm sure. I'm sure. But the ability to go, oh, I didn't realize that. What is that? But somebody being confronted. And saying, hold on, let me think. Explore. Acceptance. Oh my gosh, I do do the thing you mentioned. Let me figure out why this happens, right? And then get connected to, wait, I found the moment. I now know why I do it. I'm in acceptance of the fact that that's how I used to do it.

I'm sure. I'm sure. But the ability to go, oh, I didn't realize that. What is that? But somebody being confronted. And saying, hold on, let me think. Explore. Acceptance. Oh my gosh, I do do the thing you mentioned. Let me figure out why this happens, right? And then get connected to, wait, I found the moment. I now know why I do it. I'm in acceptance of the fact that that's how I used to do it.

Now let me learn how to change. It's the same cycle. And I think most of us have behavioral change when it's long-term, it happens that way. So for me, the first motivation was stay out of prison. I couldn't get a job to save my life, Drew. I had nine felonies when I got out of my year in jail. I had nine felonies on my record. I couldn't get a job at Domino's because there was that checkbox.

Now let me learn how to change. It's the same cycle. And I think most of us have behavioral change when it's long-term, it happens that way. So for me, the first motivation was stay out of prison. I couldn't get a job to save my life, Drew. I had nine felonies when I got out of my year in jail. I had nine felonies on my record. I couldn't get a job at Domino's because there was that checkbox.

Have you ever been? Now, serendipitously, that ended up being a good thing because now I'm here, I got a PhD, all this other stuff. But at the time, it was a nightmare. um, mall jobs, you know, the apple store open. I couldn't get anywhere that got to the past, the interview to the background search. Nobody would even have turned my calls anymore.

Have you ever been? Now, serendipitously, that ended up being a good thing because now I'm here, I got a PhD, all this other stuff. But at the time, it was a nightmare. um, mall jobs, you know, the apple store open. I couldn't get anywhere that got to the past, the interview to the background search. Nobody would even have turned my calls anymore.

So about nine, 10 months in, I kind of threw my hands up. Thank God. I'm very privileged. I had a family that could help me pay rent during this time where I would go back to drug dealing like that. I just, I had no other option, which is why I now work with people coming out of prison and jail, by the way. But I,

So about nine, 10 months in, I kind of threw my hands up. Thank God. I'm very privileged. I had a family that could help me pay rent during this time where I would go back to drug dealing like that. I just, I had no other option, which is why I now work with people coming out of prison and jail, by the way. But I,

went back to school, literally Cal State Long Beach, because have you ever been convicted of a felony was not on the application. So I got accepted, right? So I think early on, if you really back against the wall, like I was, you know, coming out of jail, you do what is feasible. You do the next available step. But How do you connect that to something bigger than yourself? I feel very fortunate.

went back to school, literally Cal State Long Beach, because have you ever been convicted of a felony was not on the application. So I got accepted, right? So I think early on, if you really back against the wall, like I was, you know, coming out of jail, you do what is feasible. You do the next available step. But How do you connect that to something bigger than yourself? I feel very fortunate.

I just took my advisor, actually my advisor from my master's program to dinner two nights ago. I haven't seen him in a few years, but this is where there's a recommendation in the book for somebody, something I call a personal advisory board. And I think, again, whether you struggle with addiction or not, this is probably a good idea. You were talking to this men's group, you were like,

I just took my advisor, actually my advisor from my master's program to dinner two nights ago. I haven't seen him in a few years, but this is where there's a recommendation in the book for somebody, something I call a personal advisory board. And I think, again, whether you struggle with addiction or not, this is probably a good idea. You were talking to this men's group, you were like,

We need people to run stuff in our lives by. But a lot of us, I don't know if this was ever true for you. It was true for me and a lot of people I work with. A lot of us, especially men, learn we got to solve our challenges ourselves. You show weakness if you rely on other people. You show weakness if you consult, if you get help. We have to fix everything ourselves.

We need people to run stuff in our lives by. But a lot of us, I don't know if this was ever true for you. It was true for me and a lot of people I work with. A lot of us, especially men, learn we got to solve our challenges ourselves. You show weakness if you rely on other people. You show weakness if you consult, if you get help. We have to fix everything ourselves.

You saw it, right? Grin and bear it, stiff upper lip, walk it off. Those kinds of little idioms and standby one-off sentences are the example of, hey, don't show weakness. So a lot of us, we don't have nuance. We don't understand what is weakness, what isn't. We just stop showcasing anything, but hey, I'm great. How are you doing, right? Personal Advisory Board is the following idea.

You saw it, right? Grin and bear it, stiff upper lip, walk it off. Those kinds of little idioms and standby one-off sentences are the example of, hey, don't show weakness. So a lot of us, we don't have nuance. We don't understand what is weakness, what isn't. We just stop showcasing anything, but hey, I'm great. How are you doing, right? Personal Advisory Board is the following idea.

Get a group of people you trust, people you admire, people you look up to. Now, one of them you could admire for their cooking, another one for their relationship, another one for their business acumen, another one for their athletic ability. These are the people you gather around you that you can now talk to about individual struggles or questions you have, right?

Get a group of people you trust, people you admire, people you look up to. Now, one of them you could admire for their cooking, another one for their relationship, another one for their business acumen, another one for their athletic ability. These are the people you gather around you that you can now talk to about individual struggles or questions you have, right?

Hey, I had this thought last night. I was going to bed and this thought kind of came through my head. I was really excited about this morning. How does that sound when I say that to you? Does it sound like something I should do? Does it sound like something crazy? Am I missing something? You said this before, we're communal social animals.

Hey, I had this thought last night. I was going to bed and this thought kind of came through my head. I was really excited about this morning. How does that sound when I say that to you? Does it sound like something I should do? Does it sound like something crazy? Am I missing something? You said this before, we're communal social animals.

When you start living in your head too much, things can go awry. And so what I ended up finding throughout my life, the thing that allowed me to have success is I was so desperate. I had so much humility. I was willing to ask for help and support.

When you start living in your head too much, things can go awry. And so what I ended up finding throughout my life, the thing that allowed me to have success is I was so desperate. I had so much humility. I was willing to ask for help and support.

And between that humility and the willing to understand that I didn't know how to live a good life, I needed to learn, which was really hard for the 25-year-old version of me, right? I was so self-assured, but it was a lie. It was a front beforehand, but I was so self-assured. I thought I knew everything. Humility helped a ton.

And between that humility and the willing to understand that I didn't know how to live a good life, I needed to learn, which was really hard for the 25-year-old version of me, right? I was so self-assured, but it was a lie. It was a front beforehand, but I was so self-assured. I thought I knew everything. Humility helped a ton.

And then what ended up happening with that specific advisor, that's why I took him out to dinner, he and his wife, was he just happened to do work on homeless injection drug users. I didn't really think I wanted to get in this line of work, but I ended up doing these interviews with people and I really liked talking to them. I had no judgment. I just spent a year in jail.

And then what ended up happening with that specific advisor, that's why I took him out to dinner, he and his wife, was he just happened to do work on homeless injection drug users. I didn't really think I wanted to get in this line of work, but I ended up doing these interviews with people and I really liked talking to them. I had no judgment. I just spent a year in jail.

And so I found that I was really good at this work. And so that was the first time I found purpose. And I think I have this line in the book, if you don't know what your purpose is, make it your purpose to find your purpose. I know that's hard for a lot of people to take on, but your purpose doesn't have to be big.

And so I found that I was really good at this work. And so that was the first time I found purpose. And I think I have this line in the book, if you don't know what your purpose is, make it your purpose to find your purpose. I know that's hard for a lot of people to take on, but your purpose doesn't have to be big.

It doesn't have to be, I want to feed all the hungry kids in Africa, but you should have something you really, really care about because then you don't need motivation on a daily basis. You're on a mission. You have some reason to wake up. And I'm sure this podcast is part of that for you, right?

It doesn't have to be, I want to feed all the hungry kids in Africa, but you should have something you really, really care about because then you don't need motivation on a daily basis. You're on a mission. You have some reason to wake up. And I'm sure this podcast is part of that for you, right?

When you really care about what it is you do, everything else is just the stuff you have to do to get there.

When you really care about what it is you do, everything else is just the stuff you have to do to get there.

I'll go to a really broad category because there's probably a lot of places we have to drill down in order to really analyze this one. But I think technology use is a huge one right now. And where the difficulty is, I have my email, I have my schedule, I have so much stuff on this device. So there are things I rely on that device for that serve me and work towards my purpose.

I'll go to a really broad category because there's probably a lot of places we have to drill down in order to really analyze this one. But I think technology use is a huge one right now. And where the difficulty is, I have my email, I have my schedule, I have so much stuff on this device. So there are things I rely on that device for that serve me and work towards my purpose.

But how many of us know, and I'll just use a couple of examples that I know of, I don't do many of these things anymore, but how many people do we know who play like four hours of Candy Crush a day? Or I've met many men, you know, it's a crazy statistic, 30 to 35%, I think, of men hide their porn use from their partner.

But how many of us know, and I'll just use a couple of examples that I know of, I don't do many of these things anymore, but how many people do we know who play like four hours of Candy Crush a day? Or I've met many men, you know, it's a crazy statistic, 30 to 35%, I think, of men hide their porn use from their partner.

Okay, I'm 48 years old. We're roughly in the same age group. Like, you know, back in the day, getting explicit material, you had to go to a magazine store and you had to steal a magazine or buy one if you were really, really brave. You had to find something. You had to find a tape.

Okay, I'm 48 years old. We're roughly in the same age group. Like, you know, back in the day, getting explicit material, you had to go to a magazine store and you had to steal a magazine or buy one if you were really, really brave. You had to find something. You had to find a tape.

um now it's all here and so the danger with these devices especially with how good they are capturing our attention right they are masterfully created for that my idea for my company actually came after watching the social dilemma you know like if we could be so good at capturing people's attention for marketing and sales can we do it for helping people as well but these machines are incredibly well made to capture our attention and hold it for as long as possible

um now it's all here and so the danger with these devices especially with how good they are capturing our attention right they are masterfully created for that my idea for my company actually came after watching the social dilemma you know like if we could be so good at capturing people's attention for marketing and sales can we do it for helping people as well but these machines are incredibly well made to capture our attention and hold it for as long as possible

And what I find more and more is when people get uncomfortable, they don't even need food. They don't even need drugs. They disappear into the screen for hours. And my PhD is in psychology with emphasis in behavioral neuroscience. In case nobody's ever told you this, I urge you to mark this at some point. Try this experiment that I'm about to talk about here.

And what I find more and more is when people get uncomfortable, they don't even need food. They don't even need drugs. They disappear into the screen for hours. And my PhD is in psychology with emphasis in behavioral neuroscience. In case nobody's ever told you this, I urge you to mark this at some point. Try this experiment that I'm about to talk about here.

When you look at a screen and you start checking your email, going on Instagram and whatever it is, the sort of activity that you find yourself lost in sometimes, you lose all sense of time. Your mind becomes so hyper-focused on what's happening. People will often think that they were looking at things for five to 10 minutes, but it's been 45 minutes or an hour.

When you look at a screen and you start checking your email, going on Instagram and whatever it is, the sort of activity that you find yourself lost in sometimes, you lose all sense of time. Your mind becomes so hyper-focused on what's happening. People will often think that they were looking at things for five to 10 minutes, but it's been 45 minutes or an hour.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on, Drew. And I think sugar is a great example, actually, to start with, which you used, because I think of sugar as almost one of the first drugs that we have, purified sugar, if you will. And here's the point, right? We all have access to purified sugar in society at large.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on, Drew. And I think sugar is a great example, actually, to start with, which you used, because I think of sugar as almost one of the first drugs that we have, purified sugar, if you will. And here's the point, right? We all have access to purified sugar in society at large.

So there's this time dilation component that happens and you get so focused that you lose yourself. And that could be exactly the kind of example we were talking about earlier where a behavior engagement in overtime for long periods prevents you or disrupts your ability to live your fullest life, right? You're late to a meeting.

So there's this time dilation component that happens and you get so focused that you lose yourself. And that could be exactly the kind of example we were talking about earlier where a behavior engagement in overtime for long periods prevents you or disrupts your ability to live your fullest life, right? You're late to a meeting.

You don't connect with your partner because when you're in the car, you're always on the phone and you literally can't even hear what they're saying because you're in this other world. You don't play with your kids, right? You stop going to events because you can just watch them. Like, does that make sense? It's like you're now locked. You're living this virtual life in your phone.

You don't connect with your partner because when you're in the car, you're always on the phone and you literally can't even hear what they're saying because you're in this other world. You don't play with your kids, right? You stop going to events because you can just watch them. Like, does that make sense? It's like you're now locked. You're living this virtual life in your phone.

And many of us have tried to stop ourselves. We've tried to cut down. We put screen watch alerts on our phone, right? And all this other stuff. And then yet we end up spending eight to 10 hours on this thing every day. So I think technology is one of the biggest future frontiers. And I talk about that, I think, right in the first chapter of the book.

And many of us have tried to stop ourselves. We've tried to cut down. We put screen watch alerts on our phone, right? And all this other stuff. And then yet we end up spending eight to 10 hours on this thing every day. So I think technology is one of the biggest future frontiers. And I talk about that, I think, right in the first chapter of the book.

Is it the five minute journal? It's my PDF copy of the financial. Yeah.

Is it the five minute journal? It's my PDF copy of the financial. Yeah.

Yeah. By the way, that's probably true for almost everything, right? There are benefits for it. Like we can argue whether alcohol is recreational use has any benefits, but I feel like this literature is very clear on that.

Yeah. By the way, that's probably true for almost everything, right? There are benefits for it. Like we can argue whether alcohol is recreational use has any benefits, but I feel like this literature is very clear on that.

And then, but you know, when you think about alcohol, when it first kind of came about, it was essentially anesthesia on the battlefield too, right? Like, Great purposes for it, maybe not regularly a good way to cope with your feelings and stress, right? So you asked what I do, and I want to double-click on something you said.

And then, but you know, when you think about alcohol, when it first kind of came about, it was essentially anesthesia on the battlefield too, right? Like, Great purposes for it, maybe not regularly a good way to cope with your feelings and stress, right? So you asked what I do, and I want to double-click on something you said.

What you just expressed is the same thing everybody has, whether they're aware of it or not true. So what do I mean by that is put your best foot forward on a great day. Everybody's good, right? The workout feels amazing, right? They can't wait to get their green juice. Like everything's great when it clicks, right?

What you just expressed is the same thing everybody has, whether they're aware of it or not true. So what do I mean by that is put your best foot forward on a great day. Everybody's good, right? The workout feels amazing, right? They can't wait to get their green juice. Like everything's great when it clicks, right?

The problem is under stress, and this is true for all of us, there's a whole section in the book about stress, especially uncontrollable chronic stress. But under stress, your body is actually meant to go into this efficient fight, flight, freeze mode if it gets extreme enough. At that point, you're not thinking logically.

The problem is under stress, and this is true for all of us, there's a whole section in the book about stress, especially uncontrollable chronic stress. But under stress, your body is actually meant to go into this efficient fight, flight, freeze mode if it gets extreme enough. At that point, you're not thinking logically.

You're, I'll say, thinking about how to survive, but you're trying to make it. I talk a lot about the book, in the book, about how many of the practices that I'll share here in a moment for myself play two purposes only. Really, like that's the main thrust of them. I give that thermometer example. I don't know if you got to it in the book, but this thermometer example.

You're, I'll say, thinking about how to survive, but you're trying to make it. I talk a lot about the book, in the book, about how many of the practices that I'll share here in a moment for myself play two purposes only. Really, like that's the main thrust of them. I give that thermometer example. I don't know if you got to it in the book, but this thermometer example.

We all have a safe zone of operation, an area within which we are making logical, sensical choices that are driven by explicit motivation. We're doing what we want to do.

We all have a safe zone of operation, an area within which we are making logical, sensical choices that are driven by explicit motivation. We're doing what we want to do.

right there's a zone for that but you wake up in the morning with a certain level of stress when i'm under high duress when there's a lot going on at work my kids are sick i didn't sleep well etc out of scale zero hundred i make up at a 60. you know i may wake up really really stressed my wife and i had a fight and my kid has a cold and work is stressful i may be really really activated so i wake up at a 50 or 60.

right there's a zone for that but you wake up in the morning with a certain level of stress when i'm under high duress when there's a lot going on at work my kids are sick i didn't sleep well etc out of scale zero hundred i make up at a 60. you know i may wake up really really stressed my wife and i had a fight and my kid has a cold and work is stressful i may be really really activated so i wake up at a 50 or 60.

Now, threshold is what can I even handle in terms of stress? I give the example like Navy SEALs, Marines, right? Those guys are specifically trained men and women. They're specifically trained to handle the highest threshold of stress we could even fathom. Because, you know, Drew, like we can be as brave as we want. We can play video games for fight, you know, like World War II video games.

Now, threshold is what can I even handle in terms of stress? I give the example like Navy SEALs, Marines, right? Those guys are specifically trained men and women. They're specifically trained to handle the highest threshold of stress we could even fathom. Because, you know, Drew, like we can be as brave as we want. We can play video games for fight, you know, like World War II video games.

But if I'm standing somewhere and a bunch of people are shooting at me with AK-47s and mortars from half a mile away, I don't even know that I can breathe. I'm probably screaming for my mommy and running home. Like I haven't been trained in those environments, right? That's too much stress. I probably shut down. Most of us know what it's like to experience enough stress to shut down.

But if I'm standing somewhere and a bunch of people are shooting at me with AK-47s and mortars from half a mile away, I don't even know that I can breathe. I'm probably screaming for my mommy and running home. Like I haven't been trained in those environments, right? That's too much stress. I probably shut down. Most of us know what it's like to experience enough stress to shut down.

Well, you talked about cryotherapy. That's probably another version of what I'm about to say right now. But cryotherapy, cold plunges, extreme workouts, right? Like personal best liftings or like really, really hard runs. They are practices you take on to push your threshold up, to train yourself to handle more stress.

Well, you talked about cryotherapy. That's probably another version of what I'm about to say right now. But cryotherapy, cold plunges, extreme workouts, right? Like personal best liftings or like really, really hard runs. They are practices you take on to push your threshold up, to train yourself to handle more stress.

Then my morning gratitude practice, meditation, calm breath work, swimming for me is one of these things to some extent, are there to lower your broad activation level. I'm trying to buy myself more space, more space to operate within the confines of what I know are good behaviors for me. Because once you get pushed past your threshold, you're SOL, you're shit out of luck, right?

Then my morning gratitude practice, meditation, calm breath work, swimming for me is one of these things to some extent, are there to lower your broad activation level. I'm trying to buy myself more space, more space to operate within the confines of what I know are good behaviors for me. Because once you get pushed past your threshold, you're SOL, you're shit out of luck, right?

You're going to do the things that feel okay or good in the moment because you're just trying to survive. So your job is to try to keep yourself within that safe zone. What I do every morning, and I actually share it on Instagram, partially for accountability, by the way, but I now do it on, I have this pad. I don't like, 5-Minute Journal is great. I love it. I probably own 40.

You're going to do the things that feel okay or good in the moment because you're just trying to survive. So your job is to try to keep yourself within that safe zone. What I do every morning, and I actually share it on Instagram, partially for accountability, by the way, but I now do it on, I have this pad. I don't like, 5-Minute Journal is great. I love it. I probably own 40.

I just at some point decided I wanted to go digital and I don't like an app. I don't want to type. I want to write my gratitude. So, sorry, Five Minute Journal people. I'm sure a lot of people won't go through the work I'm about to suggest.

I just at some point decided I wanted to go digital and I don't like an app. I don't want to type. I want to write my gratitude. So, sorry, Five Minute Journal people. I'm sure a lot of people won't go through the work I'm about to suggest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the Five Minute Journal is a great gratitude. The joke is my wife gave that to me almost like it's like a gag. She's like, you're never going to do this. But you asked why about the practice. You know how hard of a time I had not going directly to my phone when I woke up? I was like everybody else. You wake up, you go check your messages, your Instagram, your email.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the Five Minute Journal is a great gratitude. The joke is my wife gave that to me almost like it's like a gag. She's like, you're never going to do this. But you asked why about the practice. You know how hard of a time I had not going directly to my phone when I woke up? I was like everybody else. You wake up, you go check your messages, your Instagram, your email.

It was getting me stressed within 12 seconds of waking up. And I hated it and I knew I needed to change, but I couldn't control it. What I learned is about habit stacking. If you don't know what this is, BJ Fogg is the original guy to write about it, but Atomic Habits has a lot of this too. The five-minute journal gave me a five-minute break from waking up to picking up my phone.

It was getting me stressed within 12 seconds of waking up. And I hated it and I knew I needed to change, but I couldn't control it. What I learned is about habit stacking. If you don't know what this is, BJ Fogg is the original guy to write about it, but Atomic Habits has a lot of this too. The five-minute journal gave me a five-minute break from waking up to picking up my phone.

After that, I started doing more. I now have another journal that I organize my day and write what my top priorities are. Then I go work out. Then I start looking at my phone. I just bought myself 60, 70 minutes without my phone when I wake up in the morning. It's now sometimes 90 minutes. I go for a walk. Maybe I listen to something. Put in whatever you can to allow yourself.

After that, I started doing more. I now have another journal that I organize my day and write what my top priorities are. Then I go work out. Then I start looking at my phone. I just bought myself 60, 70 minutes without my phone when I wake up in the morning. It's now sometimes 90 minutes. I go for a walk. Maybe I listen to something. Put in whatever you can to allow yourself.

That state when you wake up is a very important state. I don't know to what extent. You've talked about this with other guests. I'm sure you have, though. You wake up in a theta state, brain activation. It's a really suggestible state. It's like a meditative state. Don't abuse that and go immediately into your phone.

That state when you wake up is a very important state. I don't know to what extent. You've talked about this with other guests. I'm sure you have, though. You wake up in a theta state, brain activation. It's a really suggestible state. It's like a meditative state. Don't abuse that and go immediately into your phone.

You're shortcutting one of the best moments you have in your life, which is this kind of highly creative, almost hypnotic kind of state. Do the things that feel good and serve you. And on the flip side, at night, we have red lights in our room to really try to knock out white and blue light. Have a ritual that really brings you down. Those are the simple things.

You're shortcutting one of the best moments you have in your life, which is this kind of highly creative, almost hypnotic kind of state. Do the things that feel good and serve you. And on the flip side, at night, we have red lights in our room to really try to knock out white and blue light. Have a ritual that really brings you down. Those are the simple things.

But in order to really be able to practice on a regular basis,

But in order to really be able to practice on a regular basis,

those breath practices you've learned the exercise opportunities you have that really help you control your stress you have to practice them regularly when you're in those really comfortable proactive days because unless they're incredibly well practiced when you're under duress when you're under stress you won't know how to do them well because your body will go back to other habitual behavior so i have my morning practice my evening practice but when i'm really stressed through there may be

those breath practices you've learned the exercise opportunities you have that really help you control your stress you have to practice them regularly when you're in those really comfortable proactive days because unless they're incredibly well practiced when you're under duress when you're under stress you won't know how to do them well because your body will go back to other habitual behavior so i have my morning practice my evening practice but when i'm really stressed through there may be

12 times in the middle of the day, I go to a side room or I go to the restroom or I go back to my bedroom if I'm working at home, I close my eyes and I do a one minute breath meditation just in order to bring down my activation level. Because going back to what we talked before, if you wait for back against the wall moments, you may not be resourced enough.

12 times in the middle of the day, I go to a side room or I go to the restroom or I go back to my bedroom if I'm working at home, I close my eyes and I do a one minute breath meditation just in order to bring down my activation level. Because going back to what we talked before, if you wait for back against the wall moments, you may not be resourced enough.

You may not have the ability to make the correct choice. The job is to stay as far away from that as possible.

You may not have the ability to make the correct choice. The job is to stay as far away from that as possible.

Yes. Right? But think about that sentence for a second. It's not bad enough that you have to change your behavior? You want it to get worse? This is what you're waiting for, right? Because if we don't change the patterns that make our life unhappy, make our life full of dissatisfaction, create conflict with our partner.

Yes. Right? But think about that sentence for a second. It's not bad enough that you have to change your behavior? You want it to get worse? This is what you're waiting for, right? Because if we don't change the patterns that make our life unhappy, make our life full of dissatisfaction, create conflict with our partner.

I mean, do we want to wait till we get to the fight and say, I don't know if I can be with you anymore? Is that when you want to change? Why not change when you have the little fight?

I mean, do we want to wait till we get to the fight and say, I don't know if I can be with you anymore? Is that when you want to change? Why not change when you have the little fight?

A hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

That's important. That's important because lack of understanding breeds contempt in many, many ways for us. That's a psychological well-known fact, the us versus them, in-group, out-group kind of ideas that have been in psychology since the beginning of time.

That's important. That's important because lack of understanding breeds contempt in many, many ways for us. That's a psychological well-known fact, the us versus them, in-group, out-group kind of ideas that have been in psychology since the beginning of time.

a lot of us we don't want to put the work in though to understand people who are too different from us and that creates like we'll talk about why do people not want to confront that maybe their technology use or their eating is potentially compulsive and beyond a problem is because we've developed this idea that the people who struggle are out there

a lot of us we don't want to put the work in though to understand people who are too different from us and that creates like we'll talk about why do people not want to confront that maybe their technology use or their eating is potentially compulsive and beyond a problem is because we've developed this idea that the people who struggle are out there

right i'm not i'm good and i love what you said about a this might not be bad enough b i may not have the ability to change it because those are exactly the ideas that i'm trying to fight in this book first of all don't wait for it to get bad there's no reason to wait it's just going to be harder it's easy right now to change it's just you're right it's not bad now imagine and this is to me this is the eat the sparrow eat cycle if you just kind of keep doing it on repeat your whole life

right i'm not i'm good and i love what you said about a this might not be bad enough b i may not have the ability to change it because those are exactly the ideas that i'm trying to fight in this book first of all don't wait for it to get bad there's no reason to wait it's just going to be harder it's easy right now to change it's just you're right it's not bad now imagine and this is to me this is the eat the sparrow eat cycle if you just kind of keep doing it on repeat your whole life

The changes become smaller. The incremental improvement in your quality of life overall becomes smaller, but you're iterating all the time. You're constantly just going, oh, let me refine this. Let me refine that. Let me find out I'm not getting the sleep I want to get. How do I get slightly better sleep?

The changes become smaller. The incremental improvement in your quality of life overall becomes smaller, but you're iterating all the time. You're constantly just going, oh, let me refine this. Let me refine that. Let me find out I'm not getting the sleep I want to get. How do I get slightly better sleep?

My communication with my partner is way better than it was 15 years ago, but we're still fighting about these three specific topics. What is underlying that? How do I get to that? You're never taking your eye off the ball. And I think anybody who's serious professional committed to making anything better from work to this podcast, writing their book to being a better parent.

My communication with my partner is way better than it was 15 years ago, but we're still fighting about these three specific topics. What is underlying that? How do I get to that? You're never taking your eye off the ball. And I think anybody who's serious professional committed to making anything better from work to this podcast, writing their book to being a better parent.

Life is a constant journey of self-improvement in those specific areas. And the moment you take that on, I think you also find more purpose in your daily life because you know you still have potential, unmet potential.

Life is a constant journey of self-improvement in those specific areas. And the moment you take that on, I think you also find more purpose in your daily life because you know you still have potential, unmet potential.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, again, right? Think about how we talked about these patterns. Think about growing up. So you talked about this is beautiful, right? You talked about...

Yeah, I mean, again, right? Think about how we talked about these patterns. Think about growing up. So you talked about this is beautiful, right? You talked about...

environment growing up and it sounded great and if we if we sat here for another 30 minutes we could probably talk about specific experiences and events and what it you know what your relationship between your parents is like and now and what it was and the you know all the moving around and why did it happen we could unpack a lot and there would be i'm sure you've talked about this at different stages here we would understand a lot about you but right off the bat

environment growing up and it sounded great and if we if we sat here for another 30 minutes we could probably talk about specific experiences and events and what it you know what your relationship between your parents is like and now and what it was and the you know all the moving around and why did it happen we could unpack a lot and there would be i'm sure you've talked about this at different stages here we would understand a lot about you but right off the bat

I'm listening to you and I'm like, oh, you grew up pretty well resourced. In the book, I talk about inhibitors and promoters. And you had a lot of protective factors in there, right? Which are inhibitors of negative behavior or promoters of positive behavior, right? Because you got to model pretty good behavior around yourself.

I'm listening to you and I'm like, oh, you grew up pretty well resourced. In the book, I talk about inhibitors and promoters. And you had a lot of protective factors in there, right? Which are inhibitors of negative behavior or promoters of positive behavior, right? Because you got to model pretty good behavior around yourself.

many people grow up in environments full of criticism full of aggression full of violence full of hate full of fear imagine i mean let's just take an example just based on what's going on in this country right now like imagine you grew up in a household that was ultra nationalistic and incredibly xenophobic and racist right there are households like that they still exist

many people grow up in environments full of criticism full of aggression full of violence full of hate full of fear imagine i mean let's just take an example just based on what's going on in this country right now like imagine you grew up in a household that was ultra nationalistic and incredibly xenophobic and racist right there are households like that they still exist

you the one making the decisions right now when you wake up in the morning and you hate a specific group of people or not or you think our policy needs to you know kick everybody who is not here legally or sought asylum over the last 10 years are you the one making those choices or is it just bred in through belief that has been in ingrained in you over decades of growing up in a specific environment and by the way the exact i'm using one example but the exact same thing is true on the other side right in terms of the more liberal more progressive kind of concept so

you the one making the decisions right now when you wake up in the morning and you hate a specific group of people or not or you think our policy needs to you know kick everybody who is not here legally or sought asylum over the last 10 years are you the one making those choices or is it just bred in through belief that has been in ingrained in you over decades of growing up in a specific environment and by the way the exact i'm using one example but the exact same thing is true on the other side right in terms of the more liberal more progressive kind of concept so

When we look at the world around us, we all... This is a really... I think for a lot of people, a hard pill to swallow, but a good starting point for the conversation we're having. Please recognize that the reality that you see around you right now is a projection of your belief about what is true and what is not in the world. One of my favorite researchers and authors about this is Bruce Lipton.

When we look at the world around us, we all... This is a really... I think for a lot of people, a hard pill to swallow, but a good starting point for the conversation we're having. Please recognize that the reality that you see around you right now is a projection of your belief about what is true and what is not in the world. One of my favorite researchers and authors about this is Bruce Lipton.

I don't know if you know Bruce. The Biology of Belief is one of the books that he wrote.

I don't know if you know Bruce. The Biology of Belief is one of the books that he wrote.

Great guy. Yeah, I had him on my podcast twice. Love Bruce. Bruce is an amazing guy. Go pick up the book, listen to Bruce's stuff. I like him more than some other people in that genre, but your brain interprets information based on the programming and the learning you did early in life. It's just a fact. You cannot be objective. When you allow that in for the first time in your life,

Great guy. Yeah, I had him on my podcast twice. Love Bruce. Bruce is an amazing guy. Go pick up the book, listen to Bruce's stuff. I like him more than some other people in that genre, but your brain interprets information based on the programming and the learning you did early in life. It's just a fact. You cannot be objective. When you allow that in for the first time in your life,

you can stop being as defensive of the stances you have. And you can start asking yourself the question, does my belief, is my projection, are the ways I'm looking at what's around me, are they serving me? Are they making my life better? Are they hurting me? Are they hurting the people around me? Are they making me associate with people that are hurting me, right?

you can stop being as defensive of the stances you have. And you can start asking yourself the question, does my belief, is my projection, are the ways I'm looking at what's around me, are they serving me? Are they making my life better? Are they hurting me? Are they hurting the people around me? Are they making me associate with people that are hurting me, right?

And what you brought up as an example, and I used to be one of these people, Drew, all in, period, point blank. I thought the world sucked. I thought everybody was out for themselves. I thought you couldn't trust anybody. And look where it led me. I had a gun. shotgun under the seat in my car. Everybody I knew wanted drugs or money from me. The people who sold for me, stole from me all the time.

And what you brought up as an example, and I used to be one of these people, Drew, all in, period, point blank. I thought the world sucked. I thought everybody was out for themselves. I thought you couldn't trust anybody. And look where it led me. I had a gun. shotgun under the seat in my car. Everybody I knew wanted drugs or money from me. The people who sold for me, stole from me all the time.

I got held up in gunpoint. People who I knew told other people how to rob me because there's no way, like just the circumstances when I got robbed, like people knew when I was going to be out and they broke into my place and stole hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I got held up in gunpoint. People who I knew told other people how to rob me because there's no way, like just the circumstances when I got robbed, like people knew when I was going to be out and they broke into my place and stole hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Like between all the different thefts where I probably lost a million or $2 million and people robbing me when I was in the middle of my drug use. I've gotten beat up. I've spent a year in jail. I saw the world as a dark place where you're on your own and nobody believes in you and everybody will take until you show them their place or whatever. And I ended up exactly in that place.

Like between all the different thefts where I probably lost a million or $2 million and people robbing me when I was in the middle of my drug use. I've gotten beat up. I've spent a year in jail. I saw the world as a dark place where you're on your own and nobody believes in you and everybody will take until you show them their place or whatever. And I ended up exactly in that place.

Was that because that's what's available in the world? Or was it because the way I learned competition, you know, perfectionism versus failure with my dad and you work hard and you're perfect or you're a loser, right? Like that idea, I kind of manifested that way of life, but I didn't manifest that on the success side. I manifested that on the failure side because I rebelled against my...

Was that because that's what's available in the world? Or was it because the way I learned competition, you know, perfectionism versus failure with my dad and you work hard and you're perfect or you're a loser, right? Like that idea, I kind of manifested that way of life, but I didn't manifest that on the success side. I manifested that on the failure side because I rebelled against my...

You create the reality that you live in. And I'm not saying the reality that you live in right now is false. It's one sliver of what's available. And explore, accept, transform is all about recognize that. Where did that come from? Some of it might serve you. Keep it. Look at what doesn't serve you. Figure out how you can change it. Understand how you got to this place and transform it.

You create the reality that you live in. And I'm not saying the reality that you live in right now is false. It's one sliver of what's available. And explore, accept, transform is all about recognize that. Where did that come from? Some of it might serve you. Keep it. Look at what doesn't serve you. Figure out how you can change it. Understand how you got to this place and transform it.

And so I think as we do that as a people, as a society, we end up living... with people that we like and like us, and they support us in our endeavors. That doesn't mean they have to like everybody else. It's okay. We can have factions. I'm not saying we all need to create a kumbaya for the entire world.

And so I think as we do that as a people, as a society, we end up living... with people that we like and like us, and they support us in our endeavors. That doesn't mean they have to like everybody else. It's okay. We can have factions. I'm not saying we all need to create a kumbaya for the entire world.

As you said, I can deeply disagree with your opinions and still appreciate that you had the experience that led you here. And then we can say, hey, Enjoy your life. I want to go enjoy mine. No, no hard feelings. And I think, unfortunately, we've lived in this place in individual relationships and societally where we have to fight each other. Like, this is my truth.

As you said, I can deeply disagree with your opinions and still appreciate that you had the experience that led you here. And then we can say, hey, Enjoy your life. I want to go enjoy mine. No, no hard feelings. And I think, unfortunately, we've lived in this place in individual relationships and societally where we have to fight each other. Like, this is my truth.

And if I if you don't believe it, then there's something wrong with you. And that's damaging.

And if I if you don't believe it, then there's something wrong with you. And that's damaging.

Love it.

Love it.

You can't do anything about it anyway. Can't do anything about it anyway. At least that's good to realize. And then you go, oh, I better let this go then. If there's nothing I can do about it, I better let it go. So in the book, there's this fear of influence.

You can't do anything about it anyway. Can't do anything about it anyway. At least that's good to realize. And then you go, oh, I better let this go then. If there's nothing I can do about it, I better let it go. So in the book, there's this fear of influence.

Actually, I don't know if you saw it, but I split the world up into things I control fully, which are very few, by the way, things I have some influence over, and then things I have absolutely no control or influence over. And what I say to people is please make sure you buy as much of your worry, concern, energy every day on things you control fully. Next up, things you have some influence over.

Actually, I don't know if you saw it, but I split the world up into things I control fully, which are very few, by the way, things I have some influence over, and then things I have absolutely no control or influence over. And what I say to people is please make sure you buy as much of your worry, concern, energy every day on things you control fully. Next up, things you have some influence over.

And then whatever you feel like you really want to waste and have left over, go ahead and spend it on things that you have absolutely no control or influence over. And the reason is most people that I know do the flip. They spend their day doom scrolling on news, CNN, or Fox, whatever you watch is always on. Why? What are you doing?

And then whatever you feel like you really want to waste and have left over, go ahead and spend it on things that you have absolutely no control or influence over. And the reason is most people that I know do the flip. They spend their day doom scrolling on news, CNN, or Fox, whatever you watch is always on. Why? What are you doing?

How much control and influence do you have over what's happening there? And you're just letting this poison you daily, constantly, in the interest of awareness. But it's not awareness that contributes to what you're doing, unless you decide that you're going to become an activist and spend your entire life focusing on it. That's fine. But most people don't. They just let it fester.

How much control and influence do you have over what's happening there? And you're just letting this poison you daily, constantly, in the interest of awareness. But it's not awareness that contributes to what you're doing, unless you decide that you're going to become an activist and spend your entire life focusing on it. That's fine. But most people don't. They just let it fester.

And so what I love so much about that quote is just think about the shift that somebody has to go from in order to listen to that question and not hate the asker. the person who's asking the question, but instead listen to the question and go, oh, hold on. I hate fill in the blank with whatever it is that bothers them.

And so what I love so much about that quote is just think about the shift that somebody has to go from in order to listen to that question and not hate the asker. the person who's asking the question, but instead listen to the question and go, oh, hold on. I hate fill in the blank with whatever it is that bothers them.

but I've spent my whole life letting people like that rule me or I've people pleasing. I've kept trying to get the attention of those people and so I give them too much weight in my life. Just allowing that for the first time cracks open this little window to say it's not up to everybody else.

but I've spent my whole life letting people like that rule me or I've people pleasing. I've kept trying to get the attention of those people and so I give them too much weight in my life. Just allowing that for the first time cracks open this little window to say it's not up to everybody else.

And I think going back to the growth mindset thing that we talked about in the beginning, there's more than you imagine under the things you control and things you influence. We have to stop paying attention to the noise because it requires energy. It requires thoughtfulness, right?

And I think going back to the growth mindset thing that we talked about in the beginning, there's more than you imagine under the things you control and things you influence. We have to stop paying attention to the noise because it requires energy. It requires thoughtfulness, right?

Like I can tell within five minutes of sitting down here and you talking, like I can tell the level of attention, let's say, that you put when you take on a guest in terms of really making sure that

Like I can tell within five minutes of sitting down here and you talking, like I can tell the level of attention, let's say, that you put when you take on a guest in terms of really making sure that

you can go below the surface and not ask the surface level questions versus, you know, I've done, I don't know, 50, 60 interviews for this book by now, like versus people were like, got a copy of the book, maybe read the first page, maybe read the cover and went from that place.

you can go below the surface and not ask the surface level questions versus, you know, I've done, I don't know, 50, 60 interviews for this book by now, like versus people were like, got a copy of the book, maybe read the first page, maybe read the cover and went from that place.

And that translates, but I guarantee as a people pleaser, and you already told us that you've had that tendency before, you had to figure out what was important for you and what not in life in order to clear up space for that. Cause that takes time. And so if everybody did that in their own life, what is the noise?

And that translates, but I guarantee as a people pleaser, and you already told us that you've had that tendency before, you had to figure out what was important for you and what not in life in order to clear up space for that. Cause that takes time. And so if everybody did that in their own life, what is the noise?

What are the things that are filling up my life that I don't actually care that much about? How do I eke out space? You can't make up time, right? Time is passing. If you don't take it for what is important to you, it will keep passing and you will not do the things that are important. You've obviously found a way to stretch yourself so that you can do the things that matter for the work you do.

What are the things that are filling up my life that I don't actually care that much about? How do I eke out space? You can't make up time, right? Time is passing. If you don't take it for what is important to you, it will keep passing and you will not do the things that are important. You've obviously found a way to stretch yourself so that you can do the things that matter for the work you do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. First of all, you're not alone in feeling that. I would argue probably most people feel that way In one of two primary situations, one, you've been thinking about doing something about this for a long time, but you're scared and you haven't taken the first step. Number two, you've tried over and over and over again. We'll talk about sugar.

Yeah. First of all, you're not alone in feeling that. I would argue probably most people feel that way In one of two primary situations, one, you've been thinking about doing something about this for a long time, but you're scared and you haven't taken the first step. Number two, you've tried over and over and over again. We'll talk about sugar.

And yet a subset of people find themselves having a hard time controlling their intake. And the question becomes, and people might come to me, the reason I call the book Unhooked is people come and say, I'm hooked on sugar. I'm hooked on alcohol. I'm hooked on porn. I'm hooked on the show, whatever. They use the thing that they're hooked on as the explanation for the behavior.

And yet a subset of people find themselves having a hard time controlling their intake. And the question becomes, and people might come to me, the reason I call the book Unhooked is people come and say, I'm hooked on sugar. I'm hooked on alcohol. I'm hooked on porn. I'm hooked on the show, whatever. They use the thing that they're hooked on as the explanation for the behavior.

You probably know the stats better than I. Is it like 47% of Americans are obese now? Something like that? Yeah. I think we're reaching close to 50% of Americans are obese. I think we know some of the problem, right? Most of this is type 2 diabetes and not type 1. It's diet. We know a lot of the issues. And yet creating behavioral change that is long-lasting is difficult.

You probably know the stats better than I. Is it like 47% of Americans are obese now? Something like that? Yeah. I think we're reaching close to 50% of Americans are obese. I think we know some of the problem, right? Most of this is type 2 diabetes and not type 1. It's diet. We know a lot of the issues. And yet creating behavioral change that is long-lasting is difficult.

So first of all, I totally get it. Secondly, what I would urge people to pay attention to is look at some of those past experiences if you are somebody who experimented or look at where your life is right now. And what if it could be 5% better? if the problem you're dealing with could be 10% better. I think a lot of us, we create a black and white kind of delineation of success and failure, right?

So first of all, I totally get it. Secondly, what I would urge people to pay attention to is look at some of those past experiences if you are somebody who experimented or look at where your life is right now. And what if it could be 5% better? if the problem you're dealing with could be 10% better. I think a lot of us, we create a black and white kind of delineation of success and failure, right?

Okay. So only seven years. I'm thinking to myself, how many episodes? Seven years, that's a long time to work on something. Do you mind me asking? I don't know if you can tell me, F off, and you don't want to share this, but like roughly how many people listen?

Okay. So only seven years. I'm thinking to myself, how many episodes? Seven years, that's a long time to work on something. Do you mind me asking? I don't know if you can tell me, F off, and you don't want to share this, but like roughly how many people listen?

So I'll give an analogy that I've loved because, you know, between writing the two books and all the speaking and all the stuff, I've impacted, let's say, close to just over 100,000 lives, let's say, in my life. Like not... millions of readers on other things, but like people that I've had, and somebody put this to me one time, like, imagine those hundred thousand people gathered somewhere.

So I'll give an analogy that I've loved because, you know, between writing the two books and all the speaking and all the stuff, I've impacted, let's say, close to just over 100,000 lives, let's say, in my life. Like not... millions of readers on other things, but like people that I've had, and somebody put this to me one time, like, imagine those hundred thousand people gathered somewhere.

I mean, it's like a, the Rose Bowl full of people, right? Like you're a level above that, right? Like even more than that. Now, Think to yourself of that as success. Now you have your own metrics of what you mean by success and where you want things to go.

I mean, it's like a, the Rose Bowl full of people, right? Like you're a level above that, right? Like even more than that. Now, Think to yourself of that as success. Now you have your own metrics of what you mean by success and where you want things to go.

But I think I'll say for most people out there, if they decided they want to start a podcast, like having this level of listenership is success, right? But imagine you start a podcast today, right? What is it? March of 2015, 2025. You start a podcast and you start measuring your success by yours. And you put out a podcast and two people listen to it. You and your mom, right?

But I think I'll say for most people out there, if they decided they want to start a podcast, like having this level of listenership is success, right? But imagine you start a podcast today, right? What is it? March of 2015, 2025. You start a podcast and you start measuring your success by yours. And you put out a podcast and two people listen to it. You and your mom, right?

Even your wife didn't listen to the first one. And then you put out another one, your wife listened and a couple of friends, you got five listeners. But imagine when you do like 10, 20 of these, you go, man, I'm not even getting like to a thousand, I'm not even getting to 5,000.

Even your wife didn't listen to the first one. And then you put out another one, your wife listened and a couple of friends, you got five listeners. But imagine when you do like 10, 20 of these, you go, man, I'm not even getting like to a thousand, I'm not even getting to 5,000.

Look at Drew, he's got 20,000 per episode on the average and like a million for somebody, I'm gonna fail, I'm never gonna be able to do this. How many people would quit if they judge success by those metrics?

Look at Drew, he's got 20,000 per episode on the average and like a million for somebody, I'm gonna fail, I'm never gonna be able to do this. How many people would quit if they judge success by those metrics?

If you're a new artist and you release a song, you're like, man, look at Taylor Swift or look at this rapper and look at this musician and they're getting a million listens and I'm getting four. What people underestimate is the value of commitment over time to a problem. And so if somebody's listening right now and saying, you don't understand where I am. First of all, you may be right.

If you're a new artist and you release a song, you're like, man, look at Taylor Swift or look at this rapper and look at this musician and they're getting a million listens and I'm getting four. What people underestimate is the value of commitment over time to a problem. And so if somebody's listening right now and saying, you don't understand where I am. First of all, you may be right.

But the question isn't if I understand. The question is, are you ready to do something to make things better?

But the question isn't if I understand. The question is, are you ready to do something to make things better?

then the question is are you just take an experiment do do the next thing if it didn't work at all who cares try the next thing but if it did work a little bit and it didn't get you what you consider success celebrate the smaller successes from the listener kind of version celebrate the five listeners and then celebrate when you're in 20 and when you're 50 when you're 100 when you're 500 because if you don't do those things what i found over time i've i've helped i don't even know how many thousands of people individually between me and group work

then the question is are you just take an experiment do do the next thing if it didn't work at all who cares try the next thing but if it did work a little bit and it didn't get you what you consider success celebrate the smaller successes from the listener kind of version celebrate the five listeners and then celebrate when you're in 20 and when you're 50 when you're 100 when you're 500 because if you don't do those things what i found over time i've i've helped i don't even know how many thousands of people individually between me and group work

Yeah, I love that example. So let's break down for a second, at least so we have common language around what people pleasing is, right? People pleasing is behaving in ways that outwardly display personality, habits, likes and dislikes.

Yeah, I love that example. So let's break down for a second, at least so we have common language around what people pleasing is, right? People pleasing is behaving in ways that outwardly display personality, habits, likes and dislikes.

over the last 15 years change. If you do not find a way to celebrate the incremental success along the way, you will never get to the ultimate success. That's the magic. People want to lose a hundred pounds, but they can't lose 15, right? They get the eight pounds and they quit because it's not enough. Too many of us, we look at black and white success and we measure ourselves by those standards.

over the last 15 years change. If you do not find a way to celebrate the incremental success along the way, you will never get to the ultimate success. That's the magic. People want to lose a hundred pounds, but they can't lose 15, right? They get the eight pounds and they quit because it's not enough. Too many of us, we look at black and white success and we measure ourselves by those standards.

Those are not the standards. Kobe Bryant didn't become a Kobe Bryant by wanting to be Kobe Bryant. You just keep wanting to be better every single day, right? Everybody that you look at, success is a metric you measure relatively to your own place. So I've seen, and you read about in the book, with people who had massive trauma.

Those are not the standards. Kobe Bryant didn't become a Kobe Bryant by wanting to be Kobe Bryant. You just keep wanting to be better every single day, right? Everybody that you look at, success is a metric you measure relatively to your own place. So I've seen, and you read about in the book, with people who had massive trauma.

Like almost saw a parent take their own life, been sexually abused from the age of three, massive trauma. And I've also dealt with people who had none of that. They had a really great upbringing and just felt isolated and alone and less than. Stop measuring yourself by other people. Stop measuring how bad or how good you are by other people. Measure it by this internal level of satisfaction.

Like almost saw a parent take their own life, been sexually abused from the age of three, massive trauma. And I've also dealt with people who had none of that. They had a really great upbringing and just felt isolated and alone and less than. Stop measuring yourself by other people. Stop measuring how bad or how good you are by other people. Measure it by this internal level of satisfaction.

And if it's not where you want it to be, do the process. Like, why? Why is it not there? Walk yourself through the steps. And you're 100% right. There are other places where similar processes are in place. I don't need, I mean, I'd love for you to read my book, but I don't need you to succeed through my version.

And if it's not where you want it to be, do the process. Like, why? Why is it not there? Walk yourself through the steps. And you're 100% right. There are other places where similar processes are in place. I don't need, I mean, I'd love for you to read my book, but I don't need you to succeed through my version.

My number one message to everybody is if you tried something and it didn't work, toss it aside, try something else. Do not give up on yourself, right? There's... Your life is precious. We were all little babies at some point who were born and none of us have a problem looking at a baby and understanding that they are worthy of love, joy, acceptance, support.

My number one message to everybody is if you tried something and it didn't work, toss it aside, try something else. Do not give up on yourself, right? There's... Your life is precious. We were all little babies at some point who were born and none of us have a problem looking at a baby and understanding that they are worthy of love, joy, acceptance, support.

But somehow we get dirtied up as we are raised. These negative opinions, these thoughts about others, these ideas of what success looks like and what we may look like as a failure, they start coming in and they weigh us down. But we're still those kids that were as worthy of love as ever before.

But somehow we get dirtied up as we are raised. These negative opinions, these thoughts about others, these ideas of what success looks like and what we may look like as a failure, they start coming in and they weigh us down. But we're still those kids that were as worthy of love as ever before.

I urge anybody listening, if you're struggling right now, just take the single next step and just keep going, right? What's that Chinese proverb? A junior of a thousand miles start with a single step. You can't get a mile down the road without a whole bunch of steps in the middle. Just start taking them.

I urge anybody listening, if you're struggling right now, just take the single next step and just keep going, right? What's that Chinese proverb? A junior of a thousand miles start with a single step. You can't get a mile down the road without a whole bunch of steps in the middle. Just start taking them.

you believe will make other people like you more get along with you more want you around more right it's kind of like projecting this outward mask saying yes to things that you really want to say no to or at least you know not a vehement kind of like hell yes to um pretending that you like things food events whatever because other people that you want to associate with yourself now

you believe will make other people like you more get along with you more want you around more right it's kind of like projecting this outward mask saying yes to things that you really want to say no to or at least you know not a vehement kind of like hell yes to um pretending that you like things food events whatever because other people that you want to associate with yourself now

Thank you, man.

Thank you, man.

Instagram is a place I'm more active at Dr. Adi Jaffe. For the more professional folks, LinkedIn is the next place. And then I'm on Psychology Today. I write for Psychology Today a good bit. But then I have my own website, adijaffe.com. And there's obviously the books available on Amazon.

Instagram is a place I'm more active at Dr. Adi Jaffe. For the more professional folks, LinkedIn is the next place. And then I'm on Psychology Today. I write for Psychology Today a good bit. But then I have my own website, adijaffe.com. And there's obviously the books available on Amazon.

But if you want kind of a little bit more details about it than we have on Amazon, Read Unhooked is a website we set up for the book in particular.

But if you want kind of a little bit more details about it than we have on Amazon, Read Unhooked is a website we set up for the book in particular.

Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Thanks for everybody listening.

Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Thanks for everybody listening.

A lot of people might not even consider that in the realm of addiction or compulsive behavior. So let me, I want to explain what I talk about in the book. To me, addiction's compulsive behaviors are behaviors you engage in regularly. Whether you take a substance or not is almost meaningless in this, to my opinion.

A lot of people might not even consider that in the realm of addiction or compulsive behavior. So let me, I want to explain what I talk about in the book. To me, addiction's compulsive behaviors are behaviors you engage in regularly. Whether you take a substance or not is almost meaningless in this, to my opinion.

You engage in them regularly over a long period of time, and they cause you a disservice in disrupting your ability to live a full life that keeps you happy, joyful, purposeful, etc. So if your people pleasing is done to an extent where you're literally, I'm just going to make this metaphor up, right?

You engage in them regularly over a long period of time, and they cause you a disservice in disrupting your ability to live a full life that keeps you happy, joyful, purposeful, etc. So if your people pleasing is done to an extent where you're literally, I'm just going to make this metaphor up, right?

But you're literally putting yourself in situations where you're hanging out with people you don't really like because you think it's the right thing to do for your social status, whatever. You're eating food you don't like because the people that you want to spend time with are eating that food.

But you're literally putting yourself in situations where you're hanging out with people you don't really like because you think it's the right thing to do for your social status, whatever. You're eating food you don't like because the people that you want to spend time with are eating that food.

You're saying yes to commitments, things at work, et cetera, that you want to say no to because they're harming you or your ability to like yourself when you wake up in the morning. And you keep doing this over and over and over. It's causing you pain. You've tried to block it. But the desire to be liked, the desire to people please is so high that you are unable to stop yourself.

You're saying yes to commitments, things at work, et cetera, that you want to say no to because they're harming you or your ability to like yourself when you wake up in the morning. And you keep doing this over and over and over. It's causing you pain. You've tried to block it. But the desire to be liked, the desire to people please is so high that you are unable to stop yourself.

That would qualify as this compulsive behavior pattern, right? The damage is not what people think of an addiction. You're not causing damage to your liver, even the sugar. You're not making yourself diabetic, right? It's not that kind of damage. The damage in your quality of life. You're waking up anxious, stressed out, afraid, anxious.

That would qualify as this compulsive behavior pattern, right? The damage is not what people think of an addiction. You're not causing damage to your liver, even the sugar. You're not making yourself diabetic, right? It's not that kind of damage. The damage in your quality of life. You're waking up anxious, stressed out, afraid, anxious.

know wondering about whether all the people you associate with are going to continue to like you want to be with you etc so any of these kinds of patterns to me could qualify as what we're talking about and now hopefully when i say how damaging something like this could be a lot of people whether you're experiencing this right now or have or know somebody who is you can recognize that

know wondering about whether all the people you associate with are going to continue to like you want to be with you etc so any of these kinds of patterns to me could qualify as what we're talking about and now hopefully when i say how damaging something like this could be a lot of people whether you're experiencing this right now or have or know somebody who is you can recognize that

You can have a life that on the outside looks beautiful and great, but be suffering intently.

You can have a life that on the outside looks beautiful and great, but be suffering intently.

And when I said, hold on, that is the symptom. The reality is that the reason you are using the sugar, the reason you're stuck people pleasing, the reason you're drinking too much when you get home at night is because those things were used to mask underlying behaviors, struggles, early life experiences, traumas that you've had probably for a long time, like 10, 15 years at the least.

And when I said, hold on, that is the symptom. The reality is that the reason you are using the sugar, the reason you're stuck people pleasing, the reason you're drinking too much when you get home at night is because those things were used to mask underlying behaviors, struggles, early life experiences, traumas that you've had probably for a long time, like 10, 15 years at the least.

Yeah. And I just want to, just for fairness, oftentimes a person in a situation like this will find themselves having to engage in behavioral patterns to deal with all that internal discomfort. That's just what I've found. And again, people come to me for transformational behavior change. So it could be that I'm very biased because those are the people that I see, right?

Yeah. And I just want to, just for fairness, oftentimes a person in a situation like this will find themselves having to engage in behavioral patterns to deal with all that internal discomfort. That's just what I've found. And again, people come to me for transformational behavior change. So it could be that I'm very biased because those are the people that I see, right?

I see people, but they may eat too much. They may actually completely control their eating, but they're incredibly dissatisfied and then project that into drinking or other behaviors that are damaging. So the problem is it's a little whack-a-mole kind of problem, right? If what you try to deal with is a symptom every single time, you don't deal with the underlying issue.

I see people, but they may eat too much. They may actually completely control their eating, but they're incredibly dissatisfied and then project that into drinking or other behaviors that are damaging. So the problem is it's a little whack-a-mole kind of problem, right? If what you try to deal with is a symptom every single time, you don't deal with the underlying issue.

And for a person like that, the question I would ask is what makes you think you're so worthless? that everybody else's opinion of you is substantially more valuable than your willingness, your ability to live a life that serves you. Because that's what you're really doing, right? You're sacrificing self for the opinion and the liking of others.

And for a person like that, the question I would ask is what makes you think you're so worthless? that everybody else's opinion of you is substantially more valuable than your willingness, your ability to live a life that serves you. Because that's what you're really doing, right? You're sacrificing self for the opinion and the liking of others.

EAT, yeah, so Sparrow and EAT.

EAT, yeah, so Sparrow and EAT.

What an example. I love that. First of all, congratulations for figuring that out. Because when I was put in those situations as a young kid, I felt so lost, right? 14, 15 years old. I didn't know. I mean, I knew why I wasn't accepted or liked. I was new. I didn't speak the language well, et cetera. But the reason I love the example you gave so well is exactly how you started us today.

What an example. I love that. First of all, congratulations for figuring that out. Because when I was put in those situations as a young kid, I felt so lost, right? 14, 15 years old. I didn't know. I mean, I knew why I wasn't accepted or liked. I was new. I didn't speak the language well, et cetera. But the reason I love the example you gave so well is exactly how you started us today.

Being a people pleaser served you. It worked for you. That's why it became a thing. And that's what a lot of people miss is that chart in the book where I say, a lot of people look at somebody's endpoint and they say, this makes no sense. And I promise you, if you follow the story to the beginning and you understand how this behavior began, I guarantee I'll put everything on this.

That's kind of the average we get. And what happens to a lot of people is that finally explains to them why stopping the behavior has been so tough. Because everybody's tried, right? If you feel like you're hooked on sugar and you've tried to cut down your sugar intake, and you've been unsuccessful, you end up beating yourself up. You go, well, what's wrong with me?

It makes all the sense in the world. You developed a behavior of giving to others, even to potentially sometimes at a cost to yourself because the cost otherwise was isolation, loneliness, shame in a way, right? Because what is shame but separating us from others? And so it was a brilliant method. And you came up with it on your own.

That's what I love about addictive compulsive tendencies is they worked so well for a while that we actually over relied on them because they served a purpose. And then I assume, I don't know if this is true because you didn't tell me this before, but I assume what ended up happening is at some point later in life, you're like, I'm surrounded by people. Everybody likes me.

Everything looks good on the outside. Why am I not happy? And you're like, oh, because I'm actually not reserving enough of the resources, enough of the time, enough of what I have for myself. I'm giving it even when I don't necessarily want to.

I love that. I love that because it serves... My main point in writing this book is to really broaden the lens. When we talk about compulsive behaviors and addiction, almost everybody talks about drugs and alcohol. You know, that's a third of it, maybe even a quarter. Most compulsive patterns are actually behavioral, in my opinion.

I mean, look, think of all the people that are doom scrolling on their devices all the time. What is that but escapist behavior? But they can say to themselves, I'm not drinking, I'm not using drugs, I'm not doing anything bad. Why is this a problem? And you alluded to it, but I'll talk about it in the book.

I talk about, in the book, about a client of mine who reached out to me after they collapsed on the floor in front of their colleagues, peers, and clients. They thought they were dying. That was the moment. And I won't kill the story for anybody who's going to read the book, but that was the moment they realized that was a problem.

And I would argue just like somebody who's had an alcohol addiction ends up being arrested or somebody who's, you know, addicted to drugs and has an overdose. It's that moment back against the wall where most people change, but you don't have to wait that long, right? The whole point of writing the book is to try to help you do this longer, easier. Yeah.

Why can't I control my behavior? And for a lot of people, once they understand that there's actually a whole sea of underlying issues, it gives them a different frame and something else to start attacking in order to actually change their behavior.

Yeah, and I use that example in my own. I'll actually end up where I talk about this in the book. Most people, in order to create real transformational change, at least to decide and then go do all the work for it, need what I call back against the wall moment. This is the come to Jesus, oh my gosh, my life can't continue the way that it's been going, right?

The problem is those are high stress situations. You've been arrested. Your wife says she's going to leave you. You've almost died. You've hurt yourself. You've ruined relationships, you know? really, really difficult sometimes to come out of those. Not only are they high stress, you've lost a lot, which means there's more room to make up.

You're also the least resource psychologically because of high stress, high uncontrollable stress. And I talk about chronic and acute stress in the book. So...

they are the best at creating motivation to change but the amount of work that's required is actually greater if you take yourself there than if you can start earlier so the whole premise of the book the sparrow and eat model and i'll double click on e because you mentioned it before eat stands for explore accept transform and the kind of joke or the thing that i just say to people is look we all know

I'm on your podcast. We all know we need to watch what we eat in order to keep our well-being and our health. We also need to watch what we eat in our head, right? So not just in our bodies, but also our brains. And so explore, accept, transform says, if you got a negative outcome, if something happened in your life that you don't like, most of us try to ignore it. or change it.

I say you're not ready to change it because you don't know what drove that. And so explore is about identifying those underlying issues. And we'll get into the other parts of it later. But for somebody who finds themselves in a situation with their back against the wall,

pause before you try to change a lot before you try to brush it under understand why you just found yourself there right track back like you just talked to us about starting out moving as a child and and having all these needs to be popular and be accepted track back why your behavior just took you to this end point understand and i give you a model how to do that in the book understand what needs to be changed because that's the best learning opportunity you do that early you will never end up in a situation where you're about to lose everything

Yeah. So I kind of named them quickly, but let's just break them down. Number one is actually early developmental modeling and behavioral development. So the environment you were born into taught you a lot about the world. A lot. but you were zero to eight, nine, 10 years old. Most of it you don't remember in terms of an explicit memory.

So the way I opened Sparrow, Sparrow stands for stimulus, perception, activation, response, and outcome. Sparrow. Most people come to me after a negative outcome. That's that back against the wall moment, right? Yeah. fight with the wife, said she's gonna leave them. They lost a job. One of my clients literally fell off a 30-foot retaining wall while drunk in the middle of the night, almost died.

Bad, bad experiences. And so they come to me at a negative outcome. In their head, so I'll go back to Sparrow, stimulus, perception, activation, response, outcome. Response comes right before outcome. The response is the behavior. What did you do? So they say, I went drinking. I blacked out. I almost killed myself. I need to stop drinking.

Or my wife found out that I watch porn behind her back all the time, or I cheated on her. The response was a cheating or the response with the porn. I need to stop doing the thing. What they miss is a stimulus perception activation piece that come before it. And so they get caught in this cycle. I did something bad. I had a bad outcome. I tried to change the behavior. It doesn't succeed.

I get the negative outcome again and they get caught and they don't understand why they're failing.

Yeah. Like in your situation, I'm over committing. I'm saying yes too much to people. I need to say no to people more. Sounds so simple. It's like, oh, duh, thank you. Now you just help. I'm the best psychologist on the face of the planet, right?

Stop eating sugar. I mean, you don't even need 12 steps. I got one. This is it, right? It's a one step. Just stop doing the bad thing. People keep failing. They don't understand why. The reason people are failing is that response, that behavior is not standing on its own. It's a response to an activation caused by a frame, caused by a perception.

So the whole point of the book is to say when a negative outcome happens, and this is to me, I've learned this over the last 20 years of my own behavioral change, we'll get to my story, but in the last 23 years, I had to do essentially 180 degree turn in my own life, right?

And the vast majority of it, you would never actually understand the depths to which it predicts your future behavior. But your brain is conditioned to do the most of its learning definitely before you hit age 12. And after that kind of just become more and more efficient in repeating that same model.

And so I had to learn very, very quickly in order to save myself, how do I make sure that I do not keep ruining my life by making really, really wrong choices? But what I've learned through literature, through studying psychology, getting my PhD, all this stuff is you actually normally learn through failure. Avoiding failure is a bad idea.

And I give examples in the book, but you look at the most successful human beings on the face of the planet. And regardless of how you feel politically, let's put Elon Musk in that category. Let's put Henry Ford. Let's put Steve Jobs. Let's put Michael Jordan. The biggest successes on the face of the planet are successes because they don't fear failure.

Or at least they know how to leverage it once it happens, right? And so those negative outcomes that people come to me for, they're great opportunities. But what most people try to do is they say, hey, tell me how to never end up in that situation again. They try to kind of brush it under the rug and avoid it. And I say, hold on.

The way we're going to teach you how to not end up there again is to actually hyperanalyze it. We need to lean into the discomfort. We need to understand why did you end up finding yourself in that situation? And there are a lot of specific pieces of how I talk about that in the book, but I really make people break down.

Like, okay, you blacked out, woke up in the morning, had a horrible fight with your wife and she's leaving you because you were an a-hole yesterday while you were drunk and at a party with friends, you said some really, really horrible and inappropriate things. Can we all understand for a second why you would want to never talk about that event again and brush it under the rug?

I mean, nobody would want to process it. But I say, when did that start? What was the stimulus? What started that process? Then perception is when a trigger, when something showed up in your life, how did the perception hit you? Like for you, if I don't want to be lonely, if I want people to like me, if I want to be accepted, I need to say yes and contribute to others, right?

The activation with that disappearing or not being there could be fear. loneliness, negative self-perception, right? Things of like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life and future projecting. And what you did at some point in your life in the past is you said, when I feel scared of being alone forever, I have responses. I look for somebody to help, right?

When I feel scared, I'm gonna be alone forever. I look at all my friends. I say, Hey, what do you need any help with anything right now? And that makes me feel better. it doesn't deal with your overcommitment. And so what you end up finding over and over and over is the main points of leverage that most people have are not in changing the behavior and they're not in avoiding the triggers.

They're in shifting the perception and or learning how to control the activation. Those are the two biggest leverage point that you really have.

So if you grew up in a household where, and I'm actually just thinking in my head, this is just off the top of my head, but let me just show this is us.

Yeah. We talk about this in graduate school all the time. Research is really me-search, right? Is you try to understand what the heck happened. And that was definitely true for me. I found myself, by the time I was a PhD student at UCLA, I had this, that was like phase three of my life.

So phase one was as a kid growing up, up to 14 years old, same exact apartment, went to school across the street from my home, like super chill, good upbringing, right? You know, parents had issues, fought, not very emotional household, but I didn't have any big T trauma, it was pretty wholesome. 14 years old, I moved, had the exact same experience you did, Drew. super lonely and isolated.

I felt socially anxious. I didn't speak the language well. The thing is you found giving to other people within three, four months of me being in the United States, I found alcohol. And so I went to a sleepaway camp, got introduced to vodka. Somebody handed me a disgusting, warm jug of vodka. And I took two swags off of it, just trying to be brave, look all cool in front of all the other kids.

There was a scene where the daughter kind of feels really alienated from the mom. And the dad would always take her to ice cream when she was young. That was their bonding moment. That's how they would bond. Every single time he wanted to bond with his daughter, he would take her to ice cream.

I had no idea what the vodka was going to do to me. But then 20 minutes later, I felt good. I wasn't afraid of being isolated at all.

They were all drinking. It was great. You know, I felt more secure and more comfortable than I ever remember feeling, to be honest, until that moment. Now, I didn't know to call it anxiety, right? None of that stuff existed in my head. I just knew I felt better. After that trip, I took every opportunity. Every time I could get invited to a party, I would go.

Now I got invited to parties where people are drinking. Alcohol became a thing. Then two years later, weed became a thing because a girl gave me a joint. Again, people pleasing, wanting to fit in, said yes. By the time I got to college at 18, I was drinking and smoking weed every single day. And it just kept progressing from there.

And you already alluded to it, but I started out in upstate New York. I ended up moving to Los Angeles by myself. I hated the cold in Buffalo, and so I moved myself out here. Still appreciate the weather like 20-some years later. But I was kind of disconnected from friends again, and I found harder drugs.

The group I connected with here wasn't smoking weed and drinking, although they did some of that. But it was coke. I didn't really like coke as much, but ecstasy, a lot of hallucinogens, all that kind of stuff. Started using that a lot, but it was really expensive. You know, $25 a pill for ecstasy. I didn't have money. I was out of state.

My parents paid tuition and said, everything else is up to you. So I was entrepreneurial. I found that if I can just collect everybody's money ahead of time and go buy together...

then i got my pills for free so i got to do drugs for free and then another little um insight hit me and i said oh my gosh if i can buy pills for the whole month for everybody i may even make a little money out of this borrowed some money from a friend three turns of that i was not buying 50 100 pills at a time selling them to friends i didn't think of myself as selling drugs i was just getting myself free drugs and then making a little bit of money off the top of them

And then it just blew up. I mean, all my friends were telling all their friends that I have drugs. Next thing you know, I'm buying 300 pills, 400 pills, 500 pills, a thousand pills at a time. And by the time I graduated, barely like squeaked out 1999, 2000, graduating college, I was just a drug dealer.

Everybody else was watching that show and thinking to themselves, man, that's really nice that he's got this moment with her. And I'm thinking to myself... He's developing a pattern where she connects connecting to dad, love, et cetera, to ice cream. Because that's the only time that they showed them connecting.

But things come with drug dealing that you don't think about when you start on this journey, like getting robbed. I got robbed at gunpoint a couple of times. My place got broken into. Cartel deals, like all the stuff that you literally see in the movies. I lived Breaking Bad, essentially, at least the first season before I went completely insane. That was my life.

But it happened so gradually, I didn't really think much of it. And I was high the entire time. The book opens with the scene that brought an abrupt end to that. I got in a motorcycle accident, broke my leg. The cops found a half a pound of Coke on me. I think it was about a half a pound. And so they knew they needed to dig in deeper because that was pretty obvious.

And for three months, everywhere I would go, they would try to get me to talk to them and give them connections, et cetera. I didn't. So then three months later, the Beverly Hills SWAT team came to my house to pay me a visit. And that's how the book opens up.

Meth was the drug that brought me down. I was a heavy, heavy user of meth, I'd say for about three to four years. And it got introduced as a study aid, by the way.

Yep. Once I discovered I can just literally teach myself a quarter worth of a class in two days, just being high on meth. And my ridiculous brain, I'll say at the time was like, oh, now I'm never going to go study without this. So that meant midterms and finals, that meant papers. And then literally within three to four months, I was using every day because I couldn't stay up if I didn't use meth.

You know, it's a good question. I didn't know the answer to that for a very long time. And if I'm honest, in my still compulsive brain that made a lot of excuses for my behavior, etc., When I got out of the haze, I was like, what the hell was wrong with the people around me? Why didn't they talk about it? But first of all, my family, look, they had to know.

I was 124 pounds, Drew, when I got arrested, 124 pounds. There's no way anybody can imagine that an adult male would be 124 pounds and whatever, five foot nine and something. And my dad was a doctor. Obviously, he knew something was up. They told me years later, they thought I was addicted to heroin. And the reason was because I wouldn't use meth when I was around them.

And so implicitly, without somebody actually being able to call it out, the connection between love, intimacy, appreciation, connection, and sugar and ice cream can be created. So these little tiny patterns, that's one piece.

So I would be tired all the time. So they saw me on the other side and they thought it was heroin. But we never had a real conversation about it. And I think that's part of the reason why I write these books. It's part of the reason why I'm so forward about my story. Too many people are scared to talk about this stuff.

Too many people are weirded out by having real, I mean, they would tell me I'm living a loser life. They'd have that conversation, but nobody confronted me about the negative health consequences. Nobody confronted me about the fact that my life was looking pretty insane. To be fair, I'm not an idiot, so I'm also pretty good at covering it up, but I think the signs were unmistakable.

I talked to my sister, Sophie and I used to have a podcast, my wife, and I actually interviewed my sister for the podcast because I wanted to know what it was like for her.

And that was one of those moments where I really got to have a little self-reckoning because the thing, and I think we can say this with people pleasing, we can say this with sugar addiction, we can say this with workaholism and those kinds of approaches. You don't always see, you feel the devastation on yourself. You feel yourself burning out. You feel that impact to some extent.

I don't think we're always aware of the impact we're having on other people. And I think that's where I talk about in the book, I split the world into like a half or a third of the people who struggle and the other half are the people who are affected by the people who struggle with these patterns.

Because, and then maybe for them, people pleasing and codependency are kind of like their addiction, right? You know, even in your people pleasing. What does that not leave room for, right?

If you're in a relationship and you have somebody that you love and you care for, how are they being kind of forced out of spending time with you, of intimacy, et cetera, if you're constantly looking for more and more people to like you and to feel like you're connected to them, right? There's a consequence.

next are traumas actual difficult big t little t traumas but difficult life experiences that create anxieties fears negative self-impression etc in a person and again we're talking normally pretty early although for these i've definitely had clients where during college or later on in life that a substantial trauma think losing someone almost dying in a car accident right being assaulted sexually physically emotionally

Yeah, and look, we're, I consider us fortunate, right? We live in an area where self-expansion and exploration and understanding these underlying words, that's kind of a, that's the price of entry almost.

I feel like in living in LA, let alone, you know, being in a wellness community, et cetera, it's kind of like, it's almost, there's almost competition in terms of like, how far have you gone in self-exploration and self-development, right? But I think that's a counterpoint to many, many other areas in the world.

And that's what I talk about in the book a good bit is there are a lot of areas where the idea of talking about this internal turmoil, walking up to somebody that you kind of know, maybe... I've just met and actually talking about what's going on in your life, creating open intimacy and exploration or just being transparent, right?

When somebody comes to you and says, hey, we heard you do A, B and C, could you help us with this project? To be able to pause and go, hey, you know what? That sounds great. It sounds like an amazing mission. To be honest, I'm stretched really, really thin right now. If you're okay, I have to say no right now. Check in with me in six months, a year.

There's a couple of things that might wrap up by then. And then I'd be happy to talk about it again. Not even saying, but then I'd be happy to join. I'd be happy to explore it again. But right now, I just really have to protect my family, my time. There are probably people listening right now who cringe at the idea of saying that to another adult.

And you have to think for a second sometimes about what have we done in this world where admitting to somebody else you're at the end of your rope, admitting to somebody else that you're overstretched, that you're stressed, that you're... Maybe you have a problem. I jumped on a call with a person I love. I really care about them a lot. We're doing a really cool project together.

And as a call opened up, I was going through some personal stuff and I said, hey, just FYI, there's a lot going on at home right now. Kids, wife, all this stuff. I have three kids. It's a complex life. So just so you know, I'm about half here on this call right now today. So if you're okay with it, I know you're scheduled for 45 minutes. I'm probably gonna need to cut in like 15, 20.

Nobody was bothered by it. We picked it up next week. It was all good. But it took me probably drew 15 years of work to get to a place where I can open up a conversation like that and feel confident that I haven't shot those relationships, right? That people aren't going to talk about me behind my back, that I haven't screwed up somehow.

Shame is... when our internal representation of who we are, what we mean in the world, our value feels like it is in contrast, stands against what people expect of us or how we should behave. So I'm not as good, what I want to do is not as valued as what society believes I should be, right? So think about people who have historically been shamed, right?

It's like races, sexual orientation, now there's a whole trans thing. people who feel like who they are. It's not about what you do or what you like or what books you read. It's about who you are as an entity. being less than or being looked down at by society at large, by the norm. Does that make sense?

So a big part of the first third of the book, I would say, is about getting people to understand that in order for shame to play such a prominent role in any struggle, forget just addiction, in any struggle that you have, you have to believe that what you are struggling with is abnormal. That it's a sign of your brokenness. It's a sign of you being damaged.

That's another piece. And then the last one that I really want to hit are all of us have negative self-perception, negative struggles, internal kind of struggles that we have that may not be trauma-based, self-judgment that can lead to something like people pleasing, right? Or those components.

The reality is there's somewhere between 60 and 100, I know it's a large gap, but 60 and 100 million people struggling with compulsive addictive tendencies in this country. The reason the gap is so big is 40 to 50 is probably the drug and alcohol, the ones we keep track of because of research, but that doesn't include sex. That doesn't really include food addiction.

It doesn't include a lot of other behavioral interaction. So I would argue at least at the 60, 70, if you're willing to be a little broader about it, 80, 90 to 100 million. If you go to even just to the 60, 70 million people, that's about a third of adults, a little less than a third of adults, a quarter of adults in the country who struggle.

If you want to stretch the number to the higher numbers, that's about half of adults. How can we say that something is abnormal where between a quarter to a half of the people in this country who are adults struggle with it right now? And the reason I want to renormalize these struggles is when you feel shame, you feel like there's something wrong about who you are.

It is really hard to put in the work for change when you believe you're broken, when you believe there's something that's not good about you. You alluded to my story. I fully believed that

i had something kind of broken something about my brain wasn't working appropriately by the way traditional treatment approaches repeated that to me over and over and over right uh i'll use 12 steps just as an example because there's a possible for everything right there's probably over readers anonymous or something um that might be a stretch but like there's over eaters anonymous right there's gambling anonymous there's all these for all these different issues that we talk about so there's a really broad swath

But the understanding is that you have a disease that you've had your whole life and it's chronic and you're never going to leave it. I think that's the absolute wrong take for a lot of people because a lot of people stay out. They don't get the help they need because they say, well, if I'm damaged, I'm broken forever, then why even put in the work? The way I see it is totally different.

And I'll go back to the story you told us. If I can track somebody's starting point of their journey to today, Their behavior makes all the sense in the world. And so why not take that time trip back, go address the underlying issues. Sometimes they're difficult, Drew, right? I've dealt with people. I mean, I talk about some of these in the book.

I've dealt with people who've had massive historical trauma. You don't have to have these issues, but a lot of people do. Let's go fix the damage created by these things. Let's go address them at a deep level. Not only do you get relief from these behavioral patterns that you're trying to change, you get to be happy with yourself. And you sound like somebody who's done some of this work.

Once you found out that you have these patterns yourself, the relief is not only by not overcommitting. The relief is partially because you get to walk around knowing that Not hoping, not believing that there is, knowing your own intrinsic value. And I think that's worth all the work in the world.

Yeah, I'm not good enough. I'm always going to be alone. The world is a dark place. I got to be out for myself. Like I have a list of them actually in a whole section of the book that I've seen come up Pretty frequently, I'm not good enough. Nobody's going to love me. I'm going to be alone. And the world is dark. I need to care for myself and not other people are very, very common ones.

Yeah, 100%. And I'll fill in the story partially because Like I said, my story doesn't have big T traumas and yet it led to the kind of issues that it has. And I've done, you know, 15 years of work analyzing it so I can talk about some very specific components. So I already mentioned this to some extent, but I lived with a family. Both my parents worked. My dad was gone all the time, actually.

I mean, all the time. He worked two to three jobs at all times. I literally would see him for breakfast on Saturdays and then on family trips. And then every once in a while he would be home, you know, military service, all these other things. rarely saw my father when we lived in Israel. So I was raised by my mom, and I was a latchkey kid.

So I would come home, I would pick up my sister from work, and I became really, really independent. One of the things that was just true in my family always, no discussion of emotion. This is true to this day, other than my sister and I, who have done a lot of work to get to the other side of this.

but i've run an experiment i feel bad if my mom ever listens to these podcasts because i've talked about this on multiple podcasts but i've run now an experiment for eight to ten years i think i have to look back but i think it just flipped it took about 10 years for what i'm about to say to flip i had my first kid he's now 14 years old but i said to my wife to sophie um how awkward it felt to say i love you in hebrew because it wasn't said to me ever

Like I did not know the words. I knew how they fit in sequence. I've seen other people say them. I understand what the sentence means. Nobody said that to me growing up. My parents just didn't come from that generation. My mom was born to a Holocaust survivor, right? Her mom and three of her brothers and three of her siblings, I mean, made it out of Poland during World War II.

And so if any of those three categories of things that I just mentioned are happening to you regularly in your life, what you can end up finding is You can find yourself in anxiety, fear, depression, loneliness, isolation at different points.

Half the rest of the family never made it home to Israel. They just didn't show up. They weren't the, I love you generation. You know, my dad, his family was Scandinavian. They were like, Hey, if you checked your boxes, you're successful. You became a doctor, whatever. We're good. Right. You got food. That's how, you know, I love you. I grew up in that environment.

There are a lot of people who grew up in that environment. It just didn't prepare me for any, for dealing with any emotions. Then my dad left us, um, to what I thought was the only experience that he had that was infidelity for my mom in the relationship. I found out after he passed that that was not true at all, which mirrors some aspects of my own life later. But he left us.

Like one day I woke up and my mom was like,

know dad's gone i was like he's always gone but it's like who cares you know he's never home she said no no like he's gone he's not coming back lost it my world kind of fell upside down now again 50 of kids deal with divorces right you you create a world view where everything is normal after it because it is for you it's the new norm my dad actually came back a couple i think it was a couple of weeks later and just lived with us drew nobody talked about it

Nobody was even like, hey, dad is back. Dad was just in his room one day again. And nobody mentioned it. It messed with my head. My mom would talk to me ad nauseum all the time when I was a kid. Maybe that's why I became a psychologist about all their struggles. I'm like eight or nine years old, right?

So those were my internal, you know, I mentioned the habits of things you absorb from your environment. That's what I absorbed. Deep resiliency and maybe overexposure to adulting as a young kid. Dealing with the betrayal from my dad. I hated him until I was 25 years old. No outlet to talk about emotions, right? I couldn't, there was nowhere to process this stuff.

And then in the face of all that, so by the way, I started rebelling against my dad strongly when he was back. Because in my head, I won't swear on this show, but in my head, I was like, you a-hole, right? Now why are you even back? You left us, look at what you did to my mom, all that kind of stuff. So that's the energy that I had when we moved to the States.

Really disconnected from my dad, et cetera. And then the last piece that I'll say, My dad was a very high achiever. My entire life, I was always told about how good he was, showing me like athletics, et cetera. And achievement was the number one thing in our household. And so I remember, I think I was in third grade or something like that. I was eight or nine years old.

And what you learn to do is you learn to deal with those negative feelings because we don't live in a society where saying that to people around you is actually really easy and simple. So you learn to cover them up, but they're not easy to cover up. So you cover them up with anxiety.

I came home with a 97 on a math test. And my dad's first question was what happened to the other three points? And in my head, up until he said that sentence, I walked in like, oh my God, look, I got a 97. And when he said that, and he could have been joking, by the way, Drew. He could have said, oh, wow. He could have in his head been thinking, 97 is great. Let's see what we can do even better.

I don't know what he meant. What I heard was you didn't get 100. So I'm not celebrating it. Let's figure out where we can make things better. And what landed in my head is perfection is the only good. Everything other than perfection is not. And so I lived that way for a few years. But then when I started rebelling against my dad, I pulled a 180, man. I was like, Oh, you want to see perfection?

I'll show you the opposite, right? I was in the lower 50th percentile graduating from my high school. I had like a 2.9 GPA graduating from UCLA in undergrad, which is like, if you calculate, it's like a B minus C plus average. I kind of wanted to almost, you did people pleasing. I went the other way. I rebelled against everything that my dad found important.

And I think that's part of how I got to drugs.

behaviors, substances, et cetera, that allow you to at least pretend like you feel normal, or maybe even numb the pain to an extent where you become unaware of it.

That's what people showed me. I mean, I love that you got to this place because I'm not saying that if you believe you're broken, you can't get better. That's not what I'm saying, but it makes it harder. Because, you know, so perception is a second step in my sparrow loop, right? Stimulus, perception.

I talk about the book, man, I hope, I wish I would have found this book when I started doing this work instead of getting to it myself and then learning about Carol Dweck's book, Mindset.

But if what I'm about to talk about right now is difficult for you and you don't struggle with addiction, you just want to understand this concept alone, Carol Dweck's book, Mindset, which she's an amazing researcher doing this work, will be really, really good for you. I allude to it in the book and I use citations from it, et cetera.

Lots of citations in the book, by the way, a lot of research if you want to follow up on stuff. The mindset book suggests that a lot of us have, it's a longer continuum, but we have fixed mindsets or growth mindsets. Now she picked growth versus changing mindsets on purpose because it biases you in a specific direction. But if you say to yourself, like, are you good at math or are you bad at math?

Okay. So I set you up with that question on purpose. But a lot of people say, I'm good at math. I'm bad at math. You're not great at it. I'm bad at English. I'm good at English. I hate this. I love that, right? We have preferences. We have biases. We have leanings. Whether you say you're good at something or you're bad at something, what you're suggesting is a fixed mindset. I am this thing.

I am not, I struggle sometimes when I do math, right? I am bad at math. But whether you have a fixed mindset that you're good at something or bad at something, what it creates in your head is this notion that you're stuck. This is where you are, this is how you've been. And you hear sometimes people talking like this all the time, right?

Where they declare what they're good at, what they're bad at, what they can do, what they can't do. What that creates in your mind is a notion that you're like the static entity that just will always be the same in the world. And it's not true. So many things about us are changeable. I can't change your eye color, you know, without contacts, but I can with contacts, right?

I think that's probably one of the best short ways to explain the underlying message. Joseph Campbell has a quote that I quote in the book that I love. The cave you fear the most is the one that holds your treasure. It's from a hero of a thousand faces.

I mean, look, there are people who have lost limbs, people who've had massive physical injuries and have come back. The same is possible for you psychologically and emotionally. But what you just pointed out about your mom and where she grew up, The problem is we developed this landscape of the world and we now project ourselves into the world in that way.

So your mom, I'm just going to use this example of her not hugging and not being a big touch person, which wasn't true in my family either. We didn't really hug at all. You then got into the world and you don't hug a lot of people. Because that's not something you're used to. Now, if you meet somebody who does, there may be like a clash.

It may literally, you become uncomfortable because they want to touch you. They think you're not nice because you don't want to be hugged, right? Like it creates conflict. Too many of us, when we live in the middle of one of these episodes, unfortunately in society, I feel like if more people understand what I want to say, maybe the world will become a slightly better place.

We underappreciate how malleable we really are. So I give the sponge example in the book, you absorbed a lot of your reality about what is good, what is bad, what you should do, what you shouldn't do, who you should like, who you shouldn't like, all that stuff, politics from an early age. And you absorbed it because that's what was available. That's where you could model.

That doesn't mean you can't expose yourself to new information. That doesn't mean you can't meet new people and become a different version of yourself. And when you understand this growth mindset idea, you don't feel stuck anymore. You don't feel broken.

You may have learned how to do the wrong thing and that has led you to people pleasing or led you to eating too much or led you to drinking too much or watching too much porn, right? Whatever that is for you. Okay. then learn new things. Immerse yourself in new environments. Be with people who know how to behave and you can model to become a slightly different version of yourself.

We know change is the only constant. The exact same thing is true with who we are.

And if you want to finish it, I can do the quote. Anybody can beat their addiction to anything. You just have to be willing to become somebody who's not addicted. And when people hear that first, they either get really, really angry or it gives a massive relief because if you don't believe you can change the idea that you have to become somebody else can become really confrontational.

And essentially what he's saying is it's a colloquial way to say what you just said right now, right, Drew, which is you've been running away from something. That thing is going to keep chasing you. It's not going to let you go. There is no way to run away from it.