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Dr. Anna Lembke

👤 Person
808 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

People can get addicted to work, and part of the reason is that we've drugified work, right? When I say drugified, what do I mean? We've made it more potent, and this is true for all these drugs. We've made them more potent, more novel, more bountiful, meaning there's more of it, and more accessible. So if we break that down with work, how is work more potent?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

People can get addicted to work, and part of the reason is that we've drugified work, right? When I say drugified, what do I mean? We've made it more potent, and this is true for all these drugs. We've made them more potent, more novel, more bountiful, meaning there's more of it, and more accessible. So if we break that down with work, how is work more potent?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Well, certain types of work are more reinforcing, not all types of work. So, for example, works – white collar work is often now associated with stock options and bonuses, right? There's often like a social media aspect to it or maybe even a fame aspect. Or as you pointed out, those are our cultural heroes, right? So you get all this, you know, adulation for being a workaholic. Right.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Well, certain types of work are more reinforcing, not all types of work. So, for example, works – white collar work is often now associated with stock options and bonuses, right? There's often like a social media aspect to it or maybe even a fame aspect. Or as you pointed out, those are our cultural heroes, right? So you get all this, you know, adulation for being a workaholic. Right.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

And that also, because we're such social creatures, right, and human connection stimulates dopamine, that also makes work more of a potent drug.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

And that also, because we're such social creatures, right, and human connection stimulates dopamine, that also makes work more of a potent drug.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

As you said, the awards, the trophies. And then you've got the fact of novelty. So once we've exposed our brains enough times to a certain drug, as I said, we develop tolerance, right? And then we need more potent forms or novel forms. One of the ways we overcome tolerance is by taking our drug and then changing it slightly, like adding a little new molecule on this chemical, right?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

As you said, the awards, the trophies. And then you've got the fact of novelty. So once we've exposed our brains enough times to a certain drug, as I said, we develop tolerance, right? And then we need more potent forms or novel forms. One of the ways we overcome tolerance is by taking our drug and then changing it slightly, like adding a little new molecule on this chemical, right?

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Or on the internet, you know, when we're searching videos, we want something similar to what we liked before but just a little bit different. And that's what the algorithm does automatically, right? It offers, oh, you should check this out. Oh, how about this? Oh, check that out, right? And that engages our treasure-seeking function. We're looking for that algorithm.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Or on the internet, you know, when we're searching videos, we want something similar to what we liked before but just a little bit different. And that's what the algorithm does automatically, right? It offers, oh, you should check this out. Oh, how about this? Oh, check that out, right? And that engages our treasure-seeking function. We're looking for that algorithm.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

that novel thing, but that's not too novel, right? It has to be in our category of things we like. And I think for work, we have that too. Like there are so many ways now that people can engage in their work. And it's not all bad that it's novel, but, you know, certain types of work, it makes it very enticing. Then you have quantity, right? I mean, work never ends.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

that novel thing, but that's not too novel, right? It has to be in our category of things we like. And I think for work, we have that too. Like there are so many ways now that people can engage in their work. And it's not all bad that it's novel, but, you know, certain types of work, it makes it very enticing. Then you have quantity, right? I mean, work never ends.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

There's like no natural stopping point for work. You know, you do a line of cocaine, you run out of money, you run out of cocaine, you're done, right? But that's not true for work. Everywhere, anytime, and then that gets to accessibility. One of the biggest risk factors for addiction to any drug or behavior is simple access.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

There's like no natural stopping point for work. You know, you do a line of cocaine, you run out of money, you run out of cocaine, you're done, right? But that's not true for work. Everywhere, anytime, and then that gets to accessibility. One of the biggest risk factors for addiction to any drug or behavior is simple access.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

We know that if you grow up in a neighborhood where drugs are sold on a street corner, you're more likely to try them, more likely to get addicted. If you live in a world where you have access to work 24-7, you're more likely to expose your brain to more work and more likely to get addicted to work. Again, especially if it's got all those other reinforcing qualities.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

We know that if you grow up in a neighborhood where drugs are sold on a street corner, you're more likely to try them, more likely to get addicted. If you live in a world where you have access to work 24-7, you're more likely to expose your brain to more work and more likely to get addicted to work. Again, especially if it's got all those other reinforcing qualities.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

You mean if they just get overwhelmed or it's partially why people can never quit. But I think it's important to make a distinction between work that's reinforcing in those ways and then work that's completely not reinforcing.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

You mean if they just get overwhelmed or it's partially why people can never quit. But I think it's important to make a distinction between work that's reinforcing in those ways and then work that's completely not reinforcing.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Alienating, mind-numbing, work in which the actual task is separated from the meaning of the task.

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
The Dopamine Expert: Doing This Once A Day Fixes Your Dopamine! What Alcohol Is Really Doing To Your Brain! Your Childhood Shapes Future Addictions!

Alienating, mind-numbing, work in which the actual task is separated from the meaning of the task.