Menu
Sign In Pricing Add Podcast

Dr. Marcy Bowers

Appearances

The Protocol

The Review

1449.586

I'm fine. How are things?

The Protocol

The Review

1462.742

So... Okay, that sounds good. I know you want to get this right. I know you, I really do feel that in my heart.

The Protocol

The Review

1515.395

You know, they have this... Yeah, you know what? I do. I do know you, and I do trust you, and I do want you to get it right. But I will say that... Yeah, so go ahead if you want to do that. But the first thing I have to say about gender-forming care, though, is that it is... It is like the Holocaust. There are not two sides to the story.

The Protocol

The Review

1543.307

And everyone who reports on this issue seems to feel the need to present two sides to the story. Now, beneath that, there's lots of nuance. What age? How early we intervene? How thorough the mental health evaluation? But the thing that unifies every person who is knowledgeable and Hillary Cass has never worked with a trans person.

The Protocol

The Review

1575.939

So that's a really important exclusion, um, is that gender affirming care is overwhelmingly efficacious. So there are not two sides to this issue. There really are not. There are subtleties, but there are not two sides. Um, and, uh, All right. That was my long-winded intro. It was pent up. I haven't talked to you in so long, and I've just said, I've kind of had it.

The Protocol

The Review

1608.928

You know, I've just kind of had it.

The Protocol

The Review

1621.752

But why? Why? Why is she important? Why is she of the authority?

The Protocol

The Review

1642.865

Full stop, right? Full stop. There you go.

The Protocol

The Review

1657.388

And yet you see the tens of thousands of members of the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the AMA, and the APA, all with extensive experience treating this population. Why are they somehow biased and she is not?

The Protocol

The Review

1716.07

Why is it happening? Because, you know, it feels like the same environment that enabled Paul McHugh to shut down, effectively shut down all the research in the United States for 35 years when they shut the Hopkins Clinic in 1979.

The Protocol

The Review

1853.518

Trans people were not felt to be objective enough to judge the outcome of their own well-being. I mean, that's what's so preposterous. And it's a force we've been battling ever since. So now we have suddenly in the last 10 years, universities, institutions putting money towards this, and guess what happens? The same phenomena.

The Protocol

The Review

1884.133

An outsider who, for whatever personal or political or religious or whatever their trans skepticality is about, you know, they want to shut it all down. Can I ask a question?

The Protocol

The Review

1915.31

I know.

The Protocol

The Review

1938.943

Okay. Well, the evidence is there. And it isn't her level of evidence. You know, she dismissed what she didn't like, and this is just what they did back in, you know, in the original Hopkins stuff. All of the arguments, they're all the same. I mean, just to show you her, you know, how does she come up with the, you know, describing the onset due to things like pornography?

The Protocol

The Review

1967.502

How does she speculate that as a responsible pediatrician? How does she use an endpoint like getting a job in a world that is discriminatory? How do you measure get out of the house and call that the kind of scientific endpoint that we should be looking at? What about self-reporting? This is what she won't listen to.

The Protocol

The Review

2000.808

Azeem, I wish you could have been in my clinic last week. Two individuals who came about a year after their surgery, these girls were, when I first met them, they couldn't even look me in the eye. They could barely lift their head. They were barely alive. Their parents had deep circles under their eyes. They were doing poorly in school. They were, you know, it's all the cliche.

The Protocol

The Review

2030.088

I mean, luckily they hadn't taken their lives because they had supportive parents and they had access to treatment. But they went through surgery and these girls are different. They are alive. And the personality that comes up, that is something that Dr. Cass has never seen.

The Protocol

The Review

2055.379

That is something that seeing once, she would change her mind. Her skepticism would melt. And that is what the AAP, the APA, and the AMA all know.

The Protocol

The Review

2114.773

Those are two separate things, but let's just say this is how medicine has always been conducted, is that you first treat the patient based on a hypothesis and your breadth of knowledge and what available science there is there. This is how innovation comes in any field. And then you can look back and record evidence of what you found.

The Protocol

The Review

2146.533

This is why it's so clear in the minds of so many is that there is a vast amount of experience and a vast amount of deep understanding of this population.

The Protocol

The Review

2164.602

Well, this is now the update here, but let me get to that. But this is the problem with the, you know, with the Hopkins shutdown of all of the major U.S. academic institutions. Remember, after Hopkins' closure in 1979, trans care continued. But where did it continue? It continued in the hands of private practitioners like Stanley Biber, my predecessor, because these patients didn't go away.

The Protocol

The Review

2193.443

They needed care. And he didn't look at studies. He didn't look at guidelines or data because there was none. He treated the patient first. He took the basic responsibility of medicine, and that is to treat the patient first. Now, what's going on now, what the skeptics call social contagion, and then the flip from Birth identified males, birth identified females.

The Protocol

The Review

2221.99

You know, that's the stuff that we have to drill down on. And that's the stuff that requires the WPATH standards to be really, really adhered to. But remember, we lost 35 years from this Hopkins closure. So expecting it to all return. And 80% of the literature in trans medicine has been published in the last 10 years. I mean, that's a number I've heard many, many times.

The Protocol

The Review

2251.878

It's astounding how much is actually published. So for it to be dismissed by a haughty old retired pediatrician who frankly doesn't know the population and hasn't seen the light in the eye return to the patients they treat, that's what really makes it in a way, fatally flawed. Not that it can't be learned from, not that she had malintent.

The Protocol

The Review

2286.677

It's just that, you know, it's going to make it harder for people and it's going to lead to more misery. And it's being picked up by and misrepresented and taken out of context, but by the conservative states that want to just, you know, be done with trans people altogether.

The Protocol

The Review

2319.802

Everyone cares about the Republicans. My concern is with doing the right thing for the children and adolescents and families that this affects. That's what I'm interested in. And when reports come out that show this two-sided thing and the skepticism and the fact there's no evidence, this just adds steel to their fire. Yeah, but that's what I mean.

The Protocol

The Review

2344.141

Instead of saying that this is a nascent field, relatively speaking, and that it is, you know, its research has been essentially squelched for the last 35 years because of a similar backlash in 1979. This is Johns Hopkins, 2.0.

The Protocol

The Review

2375.993

And it's all there because it doesn't lie. The truth really doesn't lie. The research and the data, it's certainly coming.