Expert Guest
Appearances
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 Trailer | Sea of Lies
It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S32 Trailer | Sea of Lies
It's probably worse than a needle in a haystack. Toward a truth desperate to be found. When you think about it logically, how we've got from there to there is unbelievable. And it truly is.
Serialously with Annie Elise
216: Hannah Kobayashi Missing Maui Woman, 20 Human Skulls Found, NYC Stabbing Spree & Dog Solves Murder Case
There are some real questions that we need to look at on why he was on the street and he has some severe mental health issues that should have been examined and that's what we're looking at as part of the investigation.
Serialously with Annie Elise
216: Hannah Kobayashi Missing Maui Woman, 20 Human Skulls Found, NYC Stabbing Spree & Dog Solves Murder Case
Er ist ein extrem gewaltiger Individuum und er kann nicht mit der Sicherheit dieser oder irgendeiner anderen Gemeinschaft vertraut werden. Also war das Leben, wie wir es fühlten, das einzige richtige Verdacht.
Serialously with Annie Elise
216: Hannah Kobayashi Missing Maui Woman, 20 Human Skulls Found, NYC Stabbing Spree & Dog Solves Murder Case
All of these people on both sides are all members of the same family. So there's a lot of bitterness and anger and hurt between those people. And so that erupted a little bit following the verdict.
Serialously with Annie Elise
233: Slenderman Stabber Release, 25 Year Old Goes Missing on Ring Camera, TikTok Ban, & BF Charged With GF Murder
Correct. And again, that risk management part is a prediction of what she's likely to face, but her institutional stability, her acceptance of rules, her willingness to accept feedback, that all bodes well for her compliance with conditional release.
Serialously with Annie Elise
251: Lori Vallow on Dateline, Teen Found Dismembered After Social Media Meetup, Karen Read Updates, and More!
The device is sending electricity to pace the heart, okay? It's also taking snapshots of what the rhythm is in the heart. Now, those wires that send the electricity is also giving data back to the computer here, the pacemaker. And if that data suddenly goes haywire, that's when we know that the heart muscle itself is no longer responding, which is how you infer that that was the moment of death.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
Absolutely. And we see this happen in many cases where a predator takes control of victim and their phone, and it's a way to buy time to go in and manipulate the phone. So what becomes important in the interview process is that the past behavior of this individual is really understood.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
And that's where interviews with the family, looking at her social media accounts, looking at her just regular text messages on her phone gives you this sense of what this person's activity is and how much they're willing to expose in a public light.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
The removing of a tongue has often happened as a way of punishment for betrayal or lying.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
Yeah, I think that's a bunch of malarkey as far as screaming for help because she could still vocalize. The tongue doesn't make the noise. It's the lungs and pushing out. through the vocal cords. And someone that's going through that would certainly make horrendous cries from agony as they're going through this.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
So there were a couple of things that troubled me about that, particularly that that was something that he might have said as a way to justify more of a fantasy that was going on in his mind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
Interesting way of hiding her body makes you think this is someone who's probably thought through a process more than someone who has just all of a sudden lost themselves in a fit of rage.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
and acts out although this is an organized predator whose plan is to go in commit this homicide and then dispose of the body and in this particular case with the scenario you've painted mutilate the body and and dissect it and move the body parts to different locations An organized offender would come prepared to do that.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
But a disorganized offender is not going to be thinking, ah, I need to take an ax or a shovel, or I got to have plastic bags or all of those things are going to be much more challenging when all of a sudden they're thinking, how do I wash my hands of this mess that I've created? Was this his first?
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
Yeah, absolutely. The clothing might have physical DNA from the suspect or from her. And as a profiler, one of the things that we always looked at was not just the fact that, for instance, a sexual assault or a homicide occurred, but what was the order of those things? What were the things that were going on before that?
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
And in kind of a creepy silence of the lambs kind of a way, you have to think about, to a profiler, we want to know things like, Did he cut her clothing off? And was that symbolic or in a ritualistic kind of a fashion? Because that tells us what's going on in the mind.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
2.
Serialously with Annie Elise
280: She Went On A Tinder Date, Then He Cut Out Her Tongue | Zaliya Shamigulova
Cut her clothing off. And was that symbolic or in a ritualistic kind of a fashion? The removing of a tongue has often happened as a way of punishment for betrayal or lying.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
How do you turn an opposition into a collaboration? And I think that's one of the main secrets in negotiation, because in any deal, and particularly in the circumstances you're talking about, they want to know how good a partner you're going to be, how good an ambassador you're going to be. If you can't stand up for yourself, then how can you stand up for them?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I think, I don't remember the first thing he threw off, but it was something about the way he talked about his ex-girlfriend's house that she grew up in that was a haunted house. He said it like it wasn't that weird. Like somebody would say, yes, you grew up in the Eastern Shore of Long Island. Like that was normal. I'm like, this is going to I'm going to dig into this.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
It's going to be interesting. And I think he had a great conversation. So I love finding out about people. What's beneath the surface?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, no, that's a good point. I do enjoy it. And I don't, I find people fascinating and, I looked up the definition of an anthropologist a few months ago, and it said people were fascinated how systems work and origins. And I'm fascinated by both. I believe there's a practical reason for everything. In many cases, you know, religious dogma was put out there as a practical solution to a problem.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So yeah, what's the practical reason? You know, what's behind this? It's gonna be fascinating no matter what it is. And then, you know, I like trying to figure out life and life's about systems. You're a big systems guy? Yes. Could probably get better at it. I think anybody, as soon as they begin to realize, you know, your habits are your, it's your collection, it's your system.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
It's your system of approaching life. What are your habits? What are your systems? How do you get things done? And I got introduced to systems thinking probably about two-thirds of the way through my bureau career and didn't realize I was learning systems. And then just started to realize that everything functions better. If you come up with a system, then you start to tweak it after that.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, don't get married to it. Tweak it and things get better.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Right. Yeah. And then comment on the generations. whether it be millennials, baby boomers, Gen X, Gen Z, whatever. I think the top performers of each group have the same attributes. Top performers are ambitious and competitive, but you need both and ethical. Their heart's in the right place. By and large, if your heart's in the wrong place, it's going to catch up with you.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
If you're a complete sociopath, you want to have long-term relationships of trust because it's going to catch up to you otherwise. So even the mercenaries realize that long-term trusted relationships are more profitable eventually. But yeah, I look for, I'm hoping to find people that are coachable as opposed to being divas, you know, being a team player. Are you coachable?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And it's not connected to age, generation, ethnicity, or religious preference. None of the demographics. And they're hard to find. And then do they wanna learn? Do they wanna get better? If you're just competitive, There's a real problem with being just competitive. You're limited by the success of your peers. And you'll quit when you're number one.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And if you're just competitive, professionally, you might be an A player. But for you, what you're capable of, you might be a C player of your capability or even a B player. So you need ambition. The person who ultimately they're measuring stick is what they did yesterday, not the people around them. I remember when I was younger, I saw a Nike ad saying there is no finish line.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I remember thinking like, no finish line? Why should I run? Yeah. But now, like I'm, yeah, there is no finish line, which means there's no limit to what you could be if you stop judging yourself by other people. So you, ambition without ethics gets you, what was her name? Elizabeth Theranos? and everybody to work for. Tremendous ambition. Blood tests. They were faking the blood tests.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
They were using other people's machinery. Everybody in that company knew. And I asked myself, so what's the explanation for that? That's ambition with no ethics. They were more than competitive. They want to rule the world. They want to be the best possible, but they dropped their ethics. And then competitive.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You got to be competitive some, because every now and then you need a good slap in the face. When you get beat.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You got to win. And then, but winning limits you if you're limited to your competition, how well they could do. But every now and then you got to get beat. Like people talk about the Roger Bannister effect. You know, the first guy to run a four minute mile.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then how many people ran it right after he did? And most of the philosophy is says somebody showed him it was possible. Yeah. My opinion is most are not, if not all of those guys thought they were better than Bannister. And when Bannister broke the record, it was a slap in the face. They got beat.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
and they realized that they hadn't leveled up their own personal game because they were being limited by their competition.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Belief system, could be both. Could be both, but you see it, somebody does something nobody else ever did, and the next thing you know, four, 10, 12 people do it in a very short order. And so why do I see it as a slap in the face? Personal, personal experience. I'm in Jamaica a number of years ago. Tell these guys I want to go cliff diving. I'm doing training for the FBI.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I was an FBI agent, FBI hostage negotiator. I was in charge of all of our international kidnapping negotiation response. So domestically in U.S., domestic hostage negotiations usually sell side. Somebody's trapped at a bank. I'm going to call in and try to get them to come out. It's the same thing as a cold caller does. Cold caller calls somebody on the phone.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So cops go, yeah, we got a place you can go cliff diving. Take me to Rick's Cafe. Like one of the most beautiful sunsets on planet earth. And they got a bar there. They got a band. And every day is the celebration builds to the sunsets. Fantastic. And they got this cliff diving platform. And, you know, I'm shooting my mouth off. I hadn't stepped up to a cliff before.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And, you know, I get up top of that thing. It's a long way down. So the first time I jump, you know, I want to dive, but I'm going to jump just to experiment with it. And first time you go through this, like you, it seems like you step out into space and then suddenly you're the coyote hurtling for the ground at a hypersonic speeds. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I can't quite bring myself to dive till I see this other dude come up. not as good a shape as me, not taking care of himself, dives, falls over backward, cracks his back on a water and emerges intact. And I looked at myself and I said, if that guy can dive, I can dive. And I needed a slap in the face.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And the next thing I did was, you know, I dove off the top of the thing because somebody beat me.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think what you're doing there too is I'm convinced that everybody's got like two lines of code in their head. I don't know what it is. Somebody said something to you when you were little, probably before the age five or six, somewhere. They either made you believe in yourself or said, hey, you know, you're not going to do that much, you know, all this nonsense.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Person on the other end of the phone doesn't really want to talk to them. International kidnapping is mostly by side. So by side all over the world in every country, pretty much every culture on the planet. It was kind of a wild thing to do because I'm originally from a small town in Iowa. So it was all over the world. That was cool.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
They put something in there. So then the challenge as an adult is how do I change that two lines of code? Get them to believe in themselves. What's their belief system? As you said, the belief system, which then might be reinforced by who they're hanging out with.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then if you start discarding the people that are dragging you down, if you believe in loyalty, then you feel like you're betraying one of your own beliefs, one of your core values. I believe in loyalty. I believe in my friends. And the people that you're talking about in whatever market, they got naysayers in their lives that have been there forever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And if they walk away, if they stop talking to them, they question, am I disloyal? So yeah, how do you replace that two line of code and get people to level up and then surround themselves with winners? Yes. And it takes a while to get there. And my early days in LA, about 2015 or so, I bring this really successful guy into the class I'm teaching at USC.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
guest speaker, and he says, here's my one piece of advice to all you. He says, fire your flaky friends. And I remember thinking like, that's harsh. Your friends. Fire your friends. And the more you think about it, the more it's true. It's hard. But if you got people around you, and almost everybody does, until you've really made it a point
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
to cultivate your life so that there are positive people around you who believe in themselves and believe in your ability to work miracles. And then suddenly, yeah, everybody's working miracles.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
After that, wrote Never Split the Difference, taught business negotiation at Georgetown and USC. And the book is done quite well based on the emotional intelligence stuff we used in Haas's negotiation. And then proved it in the business schools, and then also have a masterclass out there that's done really well too. So the book and the masterclass have done really well.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, well, some of what you're saying, yeah, negativity can be used to inspire you. You know, negativity, anger, there's energy in anger. And at some point in time, if it moves you forward, then, but it's got to turn into joy, self-love, so to speak, some version of joy. And yeah, there are people who, when you were little, like, I don't know if my mom told me. It was probably your mom.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Somewhere along the line, my mom made me believe that anything was possible. And I know other moms are probably saying like, don't let yourself be disappointed. The world's going to disappoint you. You know, it's this kind of world. It's that kind of world where you don't fit in. And yeah, did you hear that? And is it holding you back or did it inspire you?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Did it want you to prove the other person wrong? At what point in time? Did you reconcile it? That's a question. I would love to see everybody understand and grapple because I believe it's a highly positive world. It's not perfect.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
There are bad stuff's going to happen, but by and large, just rolling a dice, the world's going to take it easy on you and give you an opportunity to succeed and just playing the numbers. And if it's fair, you didn't kick your ass.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Or, we have an outsized memory for the negative. And then that holds us back.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And so I think a lot of it is either intentional or even subconscious testing behaviors. You know, how do we disagree and still remain collaborative? Right. And so how do you test that without making the other side, without offending the other side? And how do you stand up for yourself?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Shout out to our mutual friend, Joe Polish. Because at one of the sessions that I was at at Genius Network a while back, What I'm asking now is I'm going to ask you to name three people you admire and each person, you got to give me three reasons why you admire them.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Now, there's a pretty good chance the first person they talk about or the reasons they admire them, they may be answering what they think you want to hear. But that exercise is exhaustive enough that by the time they get into the second person, they're giving you real answers. And then they're going to start to tell you what their core values are without realizing it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And you run them all the way through it. You are going to find out really quickly what they're about. And I've heard enough stories. I think it might have been the haunted house Ouija board guy. Yeah. His answer was, you know, I admire the future of me. So first of all, it's a bullshit answer. Secondly, that's a ripoff of something Matthew McConaughey said.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Well, still do a lot of keynotes, do a lot of keynote speeches for corporations and associations, you know, sales kickoffs are bringing our whole professional association together. It doesn't really matter what industry, you know, anybody where people are dealing with other people. And then we coach and train a lot.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And so what you've just told me is you're a plagiarist. Yeah. You're a copycat. You don't have an original thought. You admire an answer that seemed to be completely self-absorbed and self-centered. And that ain't the truth. But I didn't even bother going all the way through The three, three things in the three, because I already know this at this point in time, this dude is up.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, sometimes I wonder like, what are the chances? I haven't already heard that. Sometimes people talk to me and they hit me with a cliche thing. That's a rip off of somebody else's story. And I've been around long enough. I probably heard the story.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So we got into some other stuff and I just said to myself, all right, so this dude's really interesting. I want to find out more about this guy. You know, how did he get, how did he get to this point? And we can abandon this because the job interview is over now and I'm just curious about using human bank, but that's kind of what I'm going for.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then I just got to ask my gut instinct, are they ambitious? Are they competitive? And the more you just ask yourself that gut, then the more accurate it's going to be. No interview process is flawless. You tell people we work hard. And then I've had people say, you guys are working harder. And I, yeah, this job's harder than I thought.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And my answer to them when we have a conversation is, what promise did I break? Because I promised you we were going to work hard. And in point of fact, if you come to work for me, I really believe the sky's the limit. If I got to create an entire division of my company that you could head, You know, what would make you happy? You know, how could I grow you into that?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And there's anybody that's going to say that, yeah, you know, sounds great. Yeah, I'd love to do that. And I'll say pressure makes diamonds, but you got to want to be a diamond. Yeah. And then when they really get into it, they go like, ah, this is harder than I thought it was going to be. I'm like, okay, we're just a bad fit. That's all.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Where you want to be is not that would make you happy someplace other than here. So I'm trying to guess at it to answer your question. I'm guessing at it and I'm saying things to people up front in case I missed where I can say, what promise did I break? I promise you we're going to work hard. I promise you we're going to help people.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I promise you there's no limit to what you could do if you're willing to work hard. And when they say, yeah, this is harder than I thought, I'm like, okay, I didn't lie to you.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then when I first started the company, I thought all we would really do would be train and train mostly corporations. And we train mostly entrepreneurs now, not corporations, some, but entrepreneurs really want to learn. They really want to get better. They like to be innovative. And then we coach a lot. I didn't think we would be coaching that much. We coach people through deals a lot.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Right. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of it in those times where you see what their home life is like. When they come to work, are they trying to overcome what they went through over the last 8 to 10 hours? Or were they launched over the weekend?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Right, right, right. Guy running a service business. Yeah. Entrepreneurial guy and tracking his numbers. And he just had all his salespeople switch from yes to no questions. You know, again, do you disagree? Are you against this? Does this look like a bad idea? Have you given up on, is now a bad time? You know, have you given up on finding the man of your dreams? Yeah. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, that's the dating advice, right? Yeah. But I think at one point in time, probably what you're referring to, getting people to say yes, the yes momentum, I think it was probably was valid at one point in time. And everybody in sales has learned it. And many of the people that have learned it went from making no sales to some sales.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, again, they went from being an F student to a C student. but they had no idea they were only a C student because if you're an F student and you become a C student, suddenly life looks great. Like if you're an F student in college, they throw you out. If you're a C student, you get a degree. You go from totally failing to get a degree and you measure yourself by the progress you made.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then you start to measure yourself by the people around you. And most people are handed in C level performance. So you're like, I'm doing okay. You know, I'm following best practices. But there are those that are exploiters, and there's a number of things. Derek Gaunt on my team starts talking about common ground is weaponized against us. The word yes is weaponized against us.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
There are a lot of things that people that don't care about us, they found it to be successful. The throat cutters, people are just trying to take the money out of our pockets and not care about the long-term relationship. And so then you start getting stung by it. And I don't know anybody that hasn't been stung by the yes momentum. Talked into something, yeah, I'd like to make more money.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
We coach. And that's a lot of fun because it's live skills based. You know, the rubber meets the road right now.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, you know, yeah, I would like to stay in a five-star resort whenever I wanted to, anywhere in the world. Yeah, I'd love that. And the next thing you know, they're saddled with something that's killing them. And they didn't really realize it was, consciously it was the yes momentum that got them, but their gut instinct processed it. Gut instinct is an extremely accurate supercomputer.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And listening to your gut versus listening to your amygdala fear centers is kind of the struggle that we all go through. But you get stung a couple of times with the yes momentum, then you're going to be suspicious of everybody that tries to get you to say yes. The same way a battered child is suspicious of every adult the minute their hands raise. Some adults are trying to give them a genuine hug.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And a hug is actually good for you. And if you're that adult who's trying to give a battered child a hug, it doesn't matter what your intention is. The battered child is still going to react to their bad experiences. And that's why I think this yes momentum stuff is so harmful. Like across the board, I'm seeing it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
No matter who it is, as soon as you start trying to get somebody to say yes, people's guard starts to go up. So that's a Pavlovian response. The stupid idea is since you always feel safe and protected when you say no, then it clears your mind. You're more willing to listen. Any parent that's got a teenage kid, dad, can I? No. But then you start to listen after having said no.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So I think the mythology of kids don't take no for an answer with their parents, it's not they don't take no for an answer. They've seen over and over again that once a parent has said no, they're more open to listening. And so don't be deterred because dad or mom said no. They feel protected. They're actually willing to listen to what the kid has to say at that point.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I'm seeing it with adults across the board. And so the guy that was at our training went from 12% to 60%. Just no other change other than switching from yes to no in the way they form their questions. Like a ridiculous jump. And the funny thing about it is like everybody comes to work for me. You know, I work on them to learn all the skills. Some take more practice.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Like instantly within two weeks, they all got no oriented questions down. It's now a bad time to talk. Would you be against? They're hitting me with them constantly. Now, why do they pick those up so quick? Because they'd started using it with their family and friends and got an instantaneous increase in their life.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
A massive amount of friction in their life disappeared the moment they switched from yes to no. And that's why you pick up a skill, because you get feedback that it works. And that's the simplest one to get the most immediate feedback on.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Well, so first of all, the way you're putting it, and we talked about this earlier, intention has a smell. So your intent from the very beginning and everything that you do and your approach and approach that you teach is to have a customer that's happy with everything you've done and want to call you back if they need you for anything else or refer you.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So you're driving for a long-term relationship one way or another, even if they never need the garage door ever again. If the neighbor does, what are they going to say to the neighbor? Raving fans, hopefully. Yeah, you need raving fans. So that's your intention, which means by definition, you want a long-term relationship. You want to be thought of well.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So fair is another word that's often weaponized against people. And mostly, you know, giving you a fair offer. Or what you're doing is very unfair. Like one of my favorites, and it's in the book, a number of years ago, NFL is locked out. Players Association trying to get the NFL owners to open their books. What do the NFL owners say? We've given the players a fair offer.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So that puts everybody, the thought in everybody's mind, maybe the players are being unfair. It puts a thought in their mind. You know, the players started to fragment a little bit as a result. But it can be used in that context. Look, if it was a fair offer, open your books and prove it. You know, I'm not saying it's not fair. Just show me.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And to try to gain the upper hand in a contentious negotiation, there are people that would say, I've given you a fair offer, which means if you reject that you're unfair, you're the one. It's an emotional button that you're pressing. Now, your approach is to lay it out from the very beginning that you want to be fair. And so from the very beginning, you're inviting them
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
to tell you where you've been unfair. And that's a completely different set of circumstances. So it's mostly context driven and the people that are manipulators will use fairness because if I toss it out there, it's gonna get you to question yourself. And the last thing you wanna do is be unfair.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I think it's a good start because you got to get some practice actually getting it out of your mouth. And then, you know, imagining it is helpful. But the actual feel of doing it, whether it's a real person there, at the same time. You know, you're taking it up a notch each time. Now, ideally, in your role play, you don't have a counterpart who's got an agenda to prove that you're wrong.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And so that doesn't help. And we run into that sometimes when we're doing a training because the mirror thing that you mentioned before, repeating just, you know, a couple of words, there'll be somebody in training that'll be like, I'm going to prove this doesn't work. And no matter how much mirroring or any skill that gets used on them, they just go, yep, nope, yep, nope. One word answer.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
It's not opening up at all. So you got to have somebody working with you that's not there to prove you wrong. You need them encouraging you. And it helps to have somebody doing it live. And then you practice it a couple times. And you got to go out and try it in real life. In real life, there's real life stuff all over the place.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I think the biggest thing in practice is people imagine getting it wrong. When in point of fact, in real life, if you get these skills wrong, it works in a different way. And it tells you that getting it wrong ain't bad. Like I practice on a TSA people all the time. Cause I go through airports all the time, you know, and they're there and they get tough jobs.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So I'm rolling through TSA one day and I realized I haven't, you know, thrown a label on verbal observation on anybody. Here's my bags coming out. I look at this guy. He's kind of standing there like it's just an average day. And I go, tough day? Because usually it is a tough day. But you need the data showing you. And he just, so I missed. I was wrong. And he reacts, like shakes it off.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Like, no, but not angry. And I go, oh, just another day, huh? He goes, yeah, it's just another day. So that was practice for me. And then as it turns out, because I got that practice in at that moment, five minutes later, phone rings, call, I got to take. Normally I don't take calls when I'm going through the airport because you deserve my entire attention. Right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And if I'm in an airport, you ain't got my entire attention. But this guy's really hard to get on a phone and a good friend. So I talked to him anyway. If I hadn't warmed up on the TSA guy and missed earlier, I wouldn't have been as sharp as I was in that call.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, Ed Kottemel's book, the guy who founded Pixar, his book Creativity, Inc., he drills into that, the fear of failure, a lot. One of the reasons that he lays out, which I think, like when you're in grade school, if you fail, like your teachers, like there's so many penalties for failing, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
then I think it's drilled into us early on that this failure is this horrible thing. And so we get out in the real world, we realize just on percentages, if you discard the failures, you move on to the successes if you don't let them hold your back. But we got all this conditioning, however long we were in school, that every failure was horrible.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And if we didn't have a certain amount of fear of it to begin with, in our DNA, what we're wired with, then much of the educational system reinforces it. So by the time we're adults, we have a hard time with it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Well, I mean, I was involved in one kidnapping that lasted over six years. Oh, shit. Columbia, the FARC, and I worked there for multiple years, and I left the Bureau before it was resolved. Because at that point in time, I'd lost any ability to influence the outcome of the case. And some other things happened where I was working for a supervisor that was undermining everything I did.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So not only did I lose the ability to do the case, like I had a boss that he and I just didn't align. And the last time I had a boss that I didn't align with and I left, my life got better. So this was another one where I'm saying, all right, the universe is telling me to move on. I'm good with that. So that case lasted over six years.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
But one I really loved, I had changed our approach in our kidnapping negotiations from the old standard proof of life to sort of a more innocent question. How do we know the hostage is alive? Basically, which is a powerful thing to ask. So we start this case and the guy gives proof of life right away. And I'm like, oh man, this guy just screwed up my new idea. I want to implement this.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
But there was something about this guy that bothered me. Kidnapping is a company activity, a gang activity, a group activity. And they're organized like any other business, which means the boss is never on the phone. There's an underling with constraints handling the negotiations. And this dude was, I thought, we're talking to the boss, right? We don't have an underling here.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
We got the boss on in connection. Now, this guy turns out to be a lone kidnapper, the only one I'd never heard of a case, let alone dealt with one where there was only one bad guy on the other side, lone kidnapper. And if I hadn't heard of it, at the time, I knew about as much about kidnapping as anybody in the world did. So if I hadn't heard of it, it probably hadn't happened.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And that's what we got on this case. And he's already given proof of life, but I got a highly coachable, I'm coaching a brother, highly coachable. And we have hammered him so much on opening the questions, what we now call calibrated questions, designed to accomplish, to make you think as opposed to make you answer. Going back and forth, guy wants a daily rate to keep the hostage alive.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah. Well, if I was in a conversation, I dig into it a little bit deeper. And you might not change it, but my first reaction is say something that is true based on a dynamic. It's really hard for the other side, but it's true. So to me, one of my responses would be it sounds like you got a closed mind. Because he's telling you he's got a closed mind about a bunch of things.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
We're arguing about that because it's gonna be, they're gonna hold him for a year if we paint him to keep him alive. And finally on his own, the guy I'm coaching comes up and he says, when we run out of money, paying the daily rate, what's gonna happen? And there's a long silence and bad guy says, it'll be all right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Now my negotiators in country call me on the phone and go like, this sounds significant, but what just happened? I go, are you kidding me? We got him. He just promised never to hurt the hostage. We didn't know it at the time. This guy was also a serial killer. So we got a serial killer on the other end of the line who's just promised not to hurt the hostage.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
We're going back and forth with Philippine National Police. They tried to rescue once. The night they tried to rescue the first time, I was convinced I was going to wake up in the morning with a dead hostage. They missed by so far that night. This guy was really cagey, hooked up an antenna on top of another house that was three blocks away.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
When a guy calls the next morning, he's just like, hey, you know, where's my money? Like nothing happened. And like, how the hell do we have a rescue last night? They missed by so far. He didn't even know what happened. So we're going back and forth on this. We got the hostage. A bad guy promising he ain't going to hurt the hostage.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
We're down to within a reasonable amount that we can make a payment of bait money. Just like in a bank. You use bait money. You make a payment. You know, it's bait money. It's a trap if you get them to take it. And my negotiators call me. I'm getting ready to switch them out, pull the people out of in-country, put two more in. They say, why don't we just let them pay?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I'm like, nah, we're going to push the bait money down even lower. Philippine National Police come up with another location to hit. And the intel the second time looks really good. That's not up to me whether or not they hit the place. It's a family decision. Family wants to know what we think. And I'm like, I'm not going to hold them back. I think there's good odds here. They hit the house.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
It ain't the right house, but it is a house the bad guy owns and his wife is there. They roll up the wife. Where's your husband? Well, I don't know where he is, but we do own this other house. They go hit the other house. Bad guy's not there, but the hostage is in the basement. They rescue the hostage and they sit there and wait for the bad guy to show up. And they lock him up.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And that's when we found out that he was a serial killer, too. Oh, my gosh. So we rolled everybody up. I had a change in strategy. Good strategy creates great outcomes that you might not expect. Let something good happen. It did not achieve the intended objective. It achieved a better one and faster than we ever thought we would have been possible.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So that was one of the ones that I was happiest about because we got a rescue. We got the bad guy, kept him from hurting anybody else. I'm sure he is, you know, Philippine, you go to jail in the Philippines. You're not doing good. You're going to end up under the jail.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Well, first of all, the other side, although they want a minute, they have a timeline too. They're running a business. You're a commodity. It's their job to get as much as they can as quickly as they can. it's not did they get as much as they could, it's did they feel like they did. And in point of fact, they have a timeline. It's not open-ended for the other side.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You're not accusing him of anything. We would call that a label. And you're slapping a label on something that's there. And in a way where you're not making an accusation, you're making an inquiry. But to lay it all out like that, I want to know, have you really heard what you're saying? Have you really heard what you're asking me to digest?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So you ask a legitimate question. How can we pay you if we don't know that you're going to let us go? That's an unavoidable question because the answer there is like, If you're not going to let the hostage go, if there's no point in me paying you and you're not going to let us go, I'm not paying you. But you don't want to say that. It's triggering a thought in the other side's mind.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So the approach is, and this happens all the time, business executives are used to their normal way of doing business, which is just, they want to intimidate, they want to impress with how smart they are, their business acumen. Business executives dig themselves, I know a couple companies that actually
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
negotiate these deals based on the principles of my book, because they've come to me and told me that. And so it's a realization about who's really on the other side. They, in fact, have a timeline. And stop trying to show off your resume, which works really good at whatever bar you drink at, but these guys are not impressed by it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And then there becomes an unavoidable issue, which is if you're not going to give us our company back, how are we supposed to pay you? And that's a question they can't get around. And then as you communicate with them, one of the points always was in negotiation, it's not whether or not you're going to lie to me. My job is to pick up when you're telling the truth.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So you engage with the other side so that you get a really good assessment of what words they use, what adjectives they use when they're telling the truth. Anything other than that is a lie. So the question, are we supposed to pay if we don't know we're going to get our company back? It's not so much the answer, but how they answer. And then you've asked it multiple times.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Now you draw a bead on which part was true and which part was false. Because if you're not going to get your company back, why should you pay?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And that's the question. It's a legitimate question. And when you ask the bad guys legitimate questions, it's not disrespectful. It's a legitimate question.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
But what they want to do is, you say it covers up to 30 million. Their job is to find out how much you have. and take it. So if you got a policy for 30 mil, their job's gonna be to get the 30 mil. But what happens if you got a policy for 10, 15, less? What if you don't have a policy? They wanna interact with you to find out what it is.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Their job is to find out what you have, which could be separate from what the market is, and then to get it from you in a set period of time. Because they got other people that have taken hostage, And they got more other people they want to take hostage and they can't afford to burn up a lot of time on you. So they want to find out what you got. And believe me, they got a timeframe.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Whoever's talking to the company has a boss who's standing behind him saying, how's it going? When are we going to get paid? You need to move on to the next job, just like any other boss.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
The more you can lengthen the negotiations out, the more potential evidence is acquired, which is why if I was coaching you, I would lengthen it out. They're going to say things inadvertently. They're going to identify them. Whoever you're talking to, you're going to want to find out what his nickname is. You're going to want to get on, it sounds stupid.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
If you can, you want to get on a first name basis with us. And I won't give you his first name, but I'll give you his nickname. Nickname's an identifier. When they want to talk is going to give you somewhat of an indication. They're always going to want to talk within that same timeframe, which is that the patterns that you pick up will tend to identify where they are and who they are.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
I just want to make sure as to whether or not I'm hearing it or not. And That's the great thing about it. That particular skill label is like, this is what this sounds like. Yeah. And it might like, oh, because some of it in negotiations, like Mark Cuban is one of my favorites. A lot of it is he's testing you. Yeah, you can tell he is. And I'm convinced that Mark talked to him a couple of times.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And if the Bureau's not engaged with you at the time, You still got a fair amount of evidence to hand over to them should you choose to do so in the future. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, go to my website, BlackSwanLTD.com. A number of choices you can make. You can subscribe to our newsletter, which is free. It's Concise Actionable Negotiation Strategies. that you get for free on Tuesday mornings. Wherever you are in the world, Tuesday is a good day to get new information. Monday is a buffer day. Tuesday, you're ready to rock.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, we got training across the board. We put a lot more clips – Short video clips of negotiation advice on my Instagram.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
At the FBI negotiator. I've been really happy with that because there are a number of really, really good negotiators that we coach that have told me informally they love the clips that we're putting on Instagram.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Short, concise, helpful ideas.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
For different reasons. I've been reading the book, Chip War, about the development of semiconductor industry in Southeast Asia, which has changed my thinking on, you know, the world's problems. They make the comment in that book that the U.S. military lost the war and the chip industry won the peace in Southeast Asia.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I'm like, oh, yeah, as a matter of fact, governments don't win wars, industries win peace. So that was Perspective. A good book on international perspectives is Prisoners of Geography, contending that whatever geography you grew up in will shape a national identity.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And it's fascinating to me as to how accurate it is in terms of how after you were born with the original equipment of being a human being, how your culture evolved into thinking like it thinks. For example, Russia's been invaded more times than they've invaded other countries. They got no natural land barriers like the US has.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
The geography encourages, Germany invaded them twice, Japan two or three times. And They've got no deep water ports that are open year round. So what does that mean? They're a country that's invaded easily by others. And if their ports get cut off, they could starve. So, all right, so I don't agree with what they're doing, but maybe I got a better feel for where they're coming from as a country.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And that's just one example. So it's fascinating when you want to learn about other cultures and anthropology, how did a culture develop? What were the pressures on them? And we forget about it in the U.S. because look at our borders. You can't come at us from the east or the west. We're going to see you from 200 miles away. We've got deep water ports everywhere.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Up to the north, we've got a great barrier, Canada, Rocky Mountains, the Arctic. From the south, it's a narrow land bridge, very difficult to cross. We forget about how, like, we have the best strategic location on planet Earth for a safe country. So prisoners of geography is one of those things that points it out. I found it was fascinating.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, it seems like a huge waste of time to repeat back what people have told you about where they're coming from. Because a lot of people, if you understand, you might just want to say, I understand, because you want to save time. And people are afraid to summarize the other guy's perspective if they disagree with it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Like there's so many fears and it accelerates things so fast that once you start saying out loud, to somebody what you hear them saying, you know, here's what I think you're saying. Here's how you see this. Or even before I disagree, here's how I think you see it. You'd be shocked at how it accelerates the conversation to where you want to go. Shocked. So take the time to do it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You know, I'm not on a first name basis with him, but I'm convinced that part of it is if we're going to be partners, I need to know that you can stand up for yourself without making other people angry. So how do you push back on me without me feeling like you're pushing back? Yeah. How do you turn an opposition into a collaboration?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And I think that's one of the main secrets in negotiation because in any deal, and particularly in the circumstances you're talking about, they want to know how good a partner you're going to be, how good an ambassador you're going to be. If you can't stand up for yourself, then how can you stand up for them?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And so I think a lot of it is either intentional or even subconscious testing behavior. You know, how do we disagree and still remain collaborative? Right. And so how do you test that without making the other side, without offending the other side? And how do you stand up for yourself? Because then you're a great ambassador.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
That's a little bit of the Jim Camp approach, too, from Start With No back in 2002. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's when I first started reading Camp's book back then, opened my eyes a lot. And Jim's approach was, you can say no to me at any time. And people are more collaborative if they feel like they're not being forced. Jim called that the right to veto.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
As long as I preserve your right to veto your autonomy, you're more likely to say yes because you don't feel shoved into it. And then consequently, you have fewer regrets. if you feel like you made a decision voluntarily. So just saying, look, man, just tell me this doesn't work, that's cool. And it's a really soft way to say, take it or leave it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, it's really helpful to slow down. I mean, I slow down on purpose because you want your brain to continue to process. And most of the time, people are either talking or processing, or they're talking or waiting, and there isn't that much processing. So if I slow down and I work my way through it, more thoughts will occur to me. So, yeah, I'm trying to sit back. I'm trying to process.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
That's trainable. Learnable, I mean, there's a couple of books out there that claim that everything's learned. The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle, I think, contends that everything is learned. Like you can't learn to be seven feet tall. You can't learn to be as big as Shaq. But there are a lot of people as big as Shaq that were never in the NBA. So he learned something.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
But you can learn to slow down. You can learn to listen more. Some people are horrified at slowing down or even gaps in the conversation at all. For very different reasons. Some people are horrified because when they go silent, they're indicating anger. So if the other side goes silent, they must be angry. Well, you know, you sit down and talk to Elon Musk, ask him a question.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
You're going to have to wait till he answers because he's going to think the thing through. He's not angry. He's thinking. Yeah. And then other people, if they're silent, they feel out of control. I got to keep talking. I got to stay in control. So those two types have trouble keeping their mouth shut.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
But when you learn how much you can gain and how much more you can think just by slowing down or even having a pause in a conversation. And I've had to teach myself that I'm the type that the assertive that wants to talk all the time to stay in control. But when I learned how much more I could get by slowing down and listening, then I like, oh, this is a better way.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
So, yeah, I do it intentionally.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Yeah, right. So judging a book by its cover. You make people feel like they're a commodity. You might be right. See, here's the thing. People are afraid to be wrong. Like, all right, so you can and should make somewhat of an assessment of people based on what you see. But then take that as a hypothesis and an experiment. And then there's always much more interesting stuff underneath people.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
Like fascinating. And I love getting... underneath. Like my favorite thing is to have conversations, which I have regularly where somebody says to me, like, I don't know that I told anybody that, or I haven't talked about that in 20 years. Like, I love that. You know, I want, I want to find out what you're about. You know, I want to find out interesting things about you and where I'm at now.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
This almost horrifies the guys managing my company, my general manager, you know, the integrator us model. when we're interviewing people, I will find out something wacky about them that he hasn't found out, which he's afraid. I'm talking to a guy not that long ago and pretty soon we get into the conversation.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
He casually throws off being at a seance in his ex-girlfriend's house that she grew up in that was a haunted house. And I'm like, I am digging into this. Yeah. And my GM, his head is just hanging now because he's like, there's no way we're ever going to hire this guy. And I should have found this out before he talked to Chris because I'm never going to hear the end of this. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss
And so it's almost a contest now to see if you can find out the wackiest thing about the people that are coming to work for us. But yeah, and the guy didn't mind telling me because I was genuinely curious. Like he wasn't going to get the job, but I was fascinated.
The Why Files: Operation Podcast
586: Weather Weapons & Worse | Tesla's Stolen Tech and the New Arms Race
The statement that there is no association between the ionosphere and surface weather is an outright lie. We can artificially influence the Earth's aurora with a relatively small amount of energy, and we know that outbursts of the northern lights do change weather patterns. There is indeed mounting evidence that upper atmospheric events affect lower atmospheric weather, and vice versa.
The Why Files: Operation Podcast
586: Weather Weapons & Worse | Tesla's Stolen Tech and the New Arms Race
What's most scary and exciting about HAARP is the potential of its application. For example, ELF waves generated by the array could be used for a variety of military applications, including finding underground bases, tunnels, even caves. The government is interested in HAARP technology because it's a new frontier, a new way to solve an old problem.