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FG (First Patient to Receive Puberty Blockers)

Appearances

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1021.122

And I was, I remember being five and coming down and I had to wear like a, like a dress thing. And I put a safety pin in between because I wanted to, I wanted to be like knickerbockers.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1035.027

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Why am I wearing a dress?

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1039.488

Yeah, that's quite smart. Then I was, now I'm not. And when I had a choice in the matter, I had my hair cut short.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1048.391

i've never had it uh long again wow um and so i think my parents just thought i was a tomboy i was pretty uh rough and ready and uh rambunctious and i i tussled i fought all my friends were boys you know the usual cliche i did uh i played football blah blah did judo all these things but i was quite aggressive because i was very uh

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1072.522

I guess, in retrospect, very geared at proving myself as, you know, so that we didn't have to go into the formalities. And this is who I am. And I was so overwhelming that people just had to deal with me. And half of them didn't even know if I was a boy or a girl. Right. And that was my protection. But I was not unhappy when I was little.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1100.381

Up until about nine or ten, it was an assertion. Eleven. Up until then, I thought, oh, it'll still work out. One day I'll wake up, it'll be fine. And then as I hit 12, 13 and puberty started to set in, I started to get really worried because then I was also aware of the, hmm, this is probably not going to work out how I want it to be. And my parents up until then had been pretty good.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1125.411

Especially my mum, I was very close to my mum, which put a little strain on the relationship with my dad because he was also quite jealous and I think he didn't really understand. So then we would often sit around the table and have massive arguments, which is also quite Italian, so it's very emotional. And it wasn't until I was 11 or 12.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1144.478

And then I started to become really anxious, which just, I think, translated to being even more aggressive, like even more difficult and demanding and opinionated and axes to grind.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1160.568

Yeah, I was angry. But like I said, that made me, you know, at school, I talked with my fists. I also talk with my mouth because it's also very argumentative, but I wouldn't tolerate anything. And if anyone said anything to me that I didn't like, I'd smack them. But I would always smack people that were bigger than me.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1179.947

No, exactly, which wasn't very difficult because I was small anyway. But no, I was quite explosive.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1198.056

It did, well, it came up, but probably, and I don't know what happened behind my back. I don't care. But, you know, there was a, I met, when I was 12, I met a girl. She was in my class. And she was also a bit of a tomboy. And we became very close very quickly. And it was at that time that the gym lessons were separated to boys and girls.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1217.866

So the very first gym lesson where we had to do it, I was there with this person. And I felt such resistance. It felt wrong. I said, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this. She said, no, I don't want to do it either. And so I went to do it. I said, I want gym on the other side. And I went, okay. And ever since then, I always did gym with the boys. But so did she.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1233.749

And at the time, we both decided that we were boys. And I was convinced that she was the same. And she just turned out to be quite a butch lesbian. But we didn't think anything of it. We didn't feel foolish about doing that. And so it became, I think half of the people were just confused at that point. They're like, what is this? What are they? Yeah.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1274.488

I was really worried about what was happening, what was going to happen, because I could see it around me. And I was... Puberty. Puberty, yeah. And that was something that I voiced to my parents in the usual prepubescent, adolescent, ridiculous, soppy way of writing poems and leaving notes, hoping that they'd read them.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1293.537

And then so my mum found one of these really pathetic poems, which clearly I'd left there, And then she addressed it and she... Do you remember kind of like what the poem said? It was along the lines of, you know, if I can just lay down my sword and blah, blah, blah. It was about battling this life and not being able to see a way out.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1318.651

And I think it was like with the undertone of suicide, but it wasn't at all. It wasn't at all. I can't remember the exact, but I think I blocked it from my memory. Except that was the general sense of it. I was feeling hopeless and desperate and blah, blah, blah, blah.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1356.48

react in the way that you wanted which is together yeah yeah because she took it very seriously and also my aunt bless her who did nothing but lie in bed and read but read a lot she happened to have just read a book on transsexuality and she sent this to my mum and for a couple of hours she goes don't you think that this might be what is the case and I guess my mum thought yes so made an appointment with a psychologist

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1394.059

It was changing, but it was just like it was pre-pubescent. And I can't remember how long I was in conversation with this psychologist, but she put me on to Delamar, who sadly has passed away.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1449.77

So I went to see her. I didn't have a clue who she was. And she listened to my case. I think Louis Hordens came into it as well, who's also just died. He was also... Yeah, yeah. He was the father of the whole gender team.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1471.022

Exactly, exactly. So they evaluated me and then they decided... that I would be a good candidate. No, well, I was the first to put on blockers.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1494.471

Yes, that is my sense. Only because I was the first and because I was so convincing. Yeah. And I'm not sure if the conversation had come up that, well, normally what we do is when you're 16 or 17, because I think that was when they started putting you at the youngest age, you could put your hormones. And I was like, no. I'm not doing it. Why can't we just, I think I probably said that.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1515.051

Why can't we just pause it now? Just let me be. So yeah, I just wanted to wake up. And that's what I said. I just want to wake up and I want to have been that I was born a boy, full stop, so that my history was congruent with that narrative. I didn't want to have to explain myself because that made me feel weak in hindsight. It made me vulnerable.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1531.644

And I, my whole life, I was not about being vulnerable. So, yeah, in a nutshell, I just analyzed it. That's probably what it was. And so they took me seriously. And I think they said, well, this is such a bloody convincing case. Great idea to experiment with this child. My parents were behind it.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1559.409

Yes. No, I don't think I was aware that was the first.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1564.33

But I mean, it wasn't completely new because these hormones blockers were being given to kids that were entering precocious puberty and in the East Bloc countries for gymnasts, but we don't talk about that. So there is some kind of data there, right? Or at least clinical experience. Exactly.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1650.832

Yeah, it was like, otherwise I'm leaving. Leaving this world. Which I wasn't, but it was that kind of...

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1657.031

that feeling was there it was like there's no choice you know that we have to do something this is not okay i'm not doing this yeah i was like put my foot down yeah um no i could be very pig-headed yeah so no i'm not doing it no no no so uh puberty that was i mean it literally saved my life um so i feel indebted

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1704.857

Yeah, I do. And it hurt. Because you injected it into a muscle. And because I was also so body critical, I didn't want to inject into my bum, which is the much better option. So I had it done in my leg the first time and that hurt like a motherfucker. Yeah.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1726.9

No, yeah, no. No, I met her, I think I got into conversations with her when I was about 16.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1782.087

I had to do a lot of psychometric and psychological testing anyway at various points in time. I remember doing it with Peggy. I filled in a lot of paperwork, a lot of questionnaires.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1825.872

And then I decided I didn't want to go on to them until I finished school. Okay. Because I didn't want to have to explain myself. Now I just, I'd frozen time. And if I went on to hormones, which is very paradoxical because on the one hand, all I wanted to do was go on a male hormones. I just didn't want to have to explain it to people.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1844.479

Because again, it would make me vulnerable. And why do I have to explain myself to you? You mean nothing to me. Well, they did, but you know what I mean? It just puts you in a very vulnerable position. I'll never know how it would have been if I, if I'd said, Hello, well, this is what's going to happen. Stand up in class, like, out yourself. I don't want to do that. I never wanted to do that.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1861.246

So I chose not to. And maybe that's my own little hang-up, but that's just pretty much how I went through life.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1917.981

think that that yeah it was a bit stressful to be fair because you know you have this like kind of underlying stress i stress with phones because you'd answer and you didn't want to be considered a woman because you had a high voice but at the same time so that's always uh that always stressed me out especially when i am as your voice started to change it just became difficult because well well how are they addressing you now so you're always thinking about those things plus toilets

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1948.661

I spent my whole time just sneaking in. I felt I didn't want people to point me out as, oh, that's somebody that's going to this. I just didn't want to be seen.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1966.684

But there is still that transition of old life, new life. Who am I going to run into? What do I have to say? Even at university, I ran into people that were from my school. And I remember the one thing I said, I met this guy and he was a year below me. And of course, he knew who I was. And he goes, oh, blah, blah, blah. And my voice is lower. And I went, by one thing, don't say she to me.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

1992.008

And that was the only thing I said to him. And that was it. We never talked about it again. But there were a few situations with somebody else that was, it's amazing how small the world is, that some things got back to other people and they confronted me with it. And I just laughed it off and pretended that I, you know, even I made it ridiculous because I said, oh, what do you think?

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2009.254

I want to be a girl. I just turned around. These people were so confused that they dropped it. But that was pretty, you know, you're always in the back of your mind. You're always worried about these things, especially then, because why do I want people to view me differently? That's my whole thing. Then people start to look at you differently.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2024.684

I'm like, no, that's exactly what I don't want people to do. or feel that they have a special bond with because they you know they know something about me which at the same time it's okay but at the same time by saying that you're saying it's a weakness that's what you're saying and they can use it against you whenever they like even though it's like faulting me for being small

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2042.691

which people still do. It's still used as a weakness. It's not my fault I'm small. What do you want me to do about it? It's not something that I'm responsible. I'm responsible for how smart I am, what I've done with my life. So you're the loser. But not about how I was born into a body that didn't belong to my mindset. And the only thing I can do is deal with it and be successful at it.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2071.73

No, so I have a lot to say about it, but at the end of the day, I'm like, fuck off. I don't feel like it. Why do I even have to have these thought processes? I've already got my defense ready if it ever came up, because no, I will not be treated in a different way or have the idea that you feel superior because, oh, poor you. Fuck off.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2089.045

That hasn't actually happened, but just to give you an idea of how my mind works.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2097.657

And that's what's formed me. And that's how, that's why I said, I'd never see myself as a victim, but I do feel that I should get some credit for something, which, but obviously I can't because then I'd have to put myself out as a victim. Right, right. But, you know, it is a big deal. It's like, oh, you know, be the martyr. You know, my first year at university, I had three operations.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2116.059

Nobody knew about it. And I completed my first year with flying colors. And I didn't think anything of it. And then, you know, all the years to come, I was in and out of hospital with operations and, you know, even a complication where I had to rush myself off to hospital because I couldn't pee anymore. Oh, my God. But nobody had a clue. And then I had to make a story around that.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2138.695

And I thought, God damn it, I did all that. But I can't say that. Do you know what I mean?

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2179.378

Yeah, I think it's a difficult question because I do know I have a very strong opinion on that, but that's my opinion because it's also fed by my own And I try to make the distinction between being coming from from that particular narrative and being narrow minded. My conclusion now is that I find that it's gone. It's like gone a bit extreme to the other side.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2204.187

So it makes a laughingstock of what it's really about, or at least it seems to be a fashion statement nowadays. And it's like when you were in the 70s, you were a punker. You know, in the 80s, you were a punker too. We always have to fight against something. We're forging our identities as young people. So we need to stand out.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2228.034

We need to have an opinion against the given society because that's our rite of passage. And it feels like this has become another forum for that, that it's just taken over that role. And for the group that is a pure, like proper transsexuals, this flirting with pronouns and gender identity is insulting.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2253.326

Because like I said, we spend all our time trying to just fit in or, you know, or be able to live the life that we feel we should have had. And it's not great help when you've got people shouting from the barricades and trying to give you a

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2268.933

a different position a third sex or whatever and then and then talk about things that we don't want you to talk about so that they can identify you but maybe that's that's my own i'm still stuck in my my own paradigm um and maybe That shouldn't be a taboo. Maybe we should break it open. And I don't know. That's not how I feel, but intellectually, I have to think about that.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

2292.115

But I don't take a lot of these people that seriously because it does seem to be a bit of a fashion statement.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

813.236

Can I get you coffee or tea or something? I have coffee.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

841.493

And I spent my whole life being, you know, covert and... Right. Yeah.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

852.317

No, I don't. You're just a man in the world. I try to get away with a murder. I literally don't tell people that knew me before my transition.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

867.043

Yeah, you did. That's one of my bragging rights. I was the first person, so I was like the guinea pig.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

877.03

No, the people that are close to me and the people that need to know or I've told, oh, then I love to share because it's, you know, it's something that there's so much that's happened and it explains so much of your personality, your character, your decision making. It's nice to be able to have somebody to talk to about that, but it doesn't need to be common knowledge. Right.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

901.871

And if you do mention my profession, then kind of make it a medical profession rather than... Very vague.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

919.322

I think that was just to show that I'd managed to achieve some kind of level of profession, which is not completely stupid.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

936.487

If I was some loser, then that would be another thing they could hitch to the bandwagon.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

940.509

I mean, I could be a loser anyway, regardless. I know many normal cis people are complete losers. Yeah. It's actually more than... No, but... I don't... No, no, sorry.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

967.751

My mother was English because she died. My father's Italian. And they're quite... Well, I think my mother was more liberal than my father because he came from a small village and he's Italian. You probably read that in the case report as well. But, you know, more or less I had a pretty happy childhood. But I was very aware of my... Frustrations, which at the time I didn't see as frustrations.

The Daily

‘The Protocol’: The Story Behind Medical Care for Transgender Kids

996.943

I just didn't understand. I just assumed that would sort itself out.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1004.916

And I was, I remember being five and coming down and I had to wear like a, like a dress thing. And I put a safety pin in between because I wanted to, I wanted to be like knickerbockers.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1018.827

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Why am I wearing a dress?

The Protocol

The Beginning

1023.29

Yeah, that's quite smart. Then I was, now I'm not. And when I had a choice in the matter, I had my hair cut short.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1032.176

i've never had it uh long again wow um and so i think i think my parents just thought i was a tomboy i was pretty uh rough and ready and uh rambunctious and i i tussled i fought all my friends were boys you know the usual cliche i did uh i played football blah blah did judo all these things but i was quite aggressive because i was very uh

The Protocol

The Beginning

1055.49

And I guess in retrospect, very geared at proving myself as a, you know, so that we didn't have to go into the formalities. And this is who I am. And I was so overwhelming that people just had to deal with me. And half of them didn't even know if I was a boy or a girl. Right. And that was my protection. But I was not unhappy when I was little.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1084.195

Up until about nine or ten, it was an assertion. Eleven. Up until then, I thought, oh, it'll still work out. One day I'll wake up, it'll be fine. And then as I hit 12, 13 and puberty started to set in, I started to get really worried because then I was also aware of the, hmm, this is probably not going to work out how I want it to be.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1106.496

And my parents up until then had been pretty good, especially my mom. I was very close to my mom, which put a little strain on the relationship with my dad because he was also quite jealous. And I think he didn't really understand. So then we would often sit around the table and have massive arguments, which is also quite Italian. So it's very emotional.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1126.045

it wasn't until i was 11 or 12 and then i started to become really anxious which just i think translated to being even more aggressive like even more difficult um and demanding and opinionated and axes to grind and then were you angry yeah i was angry but like i said that made me you know at school i talked with my fists

The Protocol

The Beginning

1151.288

I also talk with my mouth because it's also very argumentative, but I wouldn't tolerate anything. And if anyone said anything to me that I didn't like, I'd smack them. But I would always smack people that were bigger than me.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1163.652

No, exactly, which wasn't very difficult because I was small anyway. But no, I was quite explosive.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1181.861

It did, well, it came up, but probably, and I don't know what happened behind my back. I don't care. But, you know, there was a, I met, when I was 12, I met a girl. She was in my class. And she was also a bit of a tomboy. And we became very close very quickly. And it was at that time that the gym lessons were separated to boys and girls.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1201.654

So the very first gym lesson where we had to do it, I was there with this person. And I felt such resistance. It felt wrong. I said, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this. She said, no, I don't want to do it either. And so I went to the – I said, I want gym on the other side. And I went, okay. And ever since then, I always did gym with the boys. But so did she.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1217.542

And at the time, we both decided that we were boys. And I was convinced that she was the same. And she just turned out to be quite a butch lesbian. But we didn't think anything of it. We didn't feel foolish about doing that. And so it became, I think half of the people were just confused at that point. They're like, what is this? What are they? Yeah.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1258.28

I was really worried about what was happening, what was going to happen, because I could see it around me. And I was... Puberty. Puberty, yeah. And that was something that I voiced to my parents in the usual prepubescent, adolescent, ridiculous, soppy way of writing poems. and leaving notes, hoping that they'd read them.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1277.327

And then so my mum found one of these really pathetic poems, which clearly I'd left there. And then she addressed it and she... Do you remember kind of like what the poem said? It was along the lines of, you know, if I can just lay down my sword and blah, blah, blah. It was about battling this life and not being able to see a way out.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1302.441

And I think it was like with the undertone of suicide, but it wasn't at all. It wasn't at all. I can't remember the exact, but I think I blocked it from my memory. Except that was the general sense of it. I was feeling hopeless and desperate and blah, blah, blah, blah.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1342.746

Yeah, yeah, because she took it very seriously. And also my aunt, bless her, who did nothing but lie in bed and read, but read a lot. She happened to have just read a book on transsexuality. And she sent this to my mom. And for a couple of hours, she goes, don't you think that this might be what is the case? And I guess my mom thought, yes. So made an appointment with a psychologist.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1369.771

And I started talking to her.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1377.856

It was changing, but it was just like it was pre-pubescent. And I can't remember how long I was in conversation with this psychologist, but she put me on to Delamar, who sadly has passed away.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1433.558

So I went to see her. I didn't have a clue who she was. And she listened to my case. I think Louis Horace came into it as well. He's also just died. He was also... Yeah, yeah. He was the father of the whole gender team.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1454.807

Exactly, exactly. So they evaluated me and then they decided... that I would be a good candidate. No, well, I was the first to put on blockers.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1478.277

Yes, that is my sense. Only because I was the first and because I was so convincing. Yeah. And I'm not sure if the conversation had come up that, well, normally what we do is when you're 16 or 17, because I think that was when they started putting you at the youngest age, you could put your hormones and I was like, no.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1496.281

i'm not doing it why can't we just but i think i probably said that why can't we just pause it now just let me be so yeah i just wanted to wake up and that's what i said i just want to wake up and i want to it had been that i was born a boy full stop so that my history was congruent with that narrative i didn't want to have to explain myself because that made me feel weak in hindsight it made me vulnerable and i my whole life i was not about being vulnerable

The Protocol

The Beginning

1518.517

So, yeah, in a nutshell, I just analyzed it. That's probably what it was. And so they took me seriously. And I think they said, well, this is such a bloody convincing case. Great idea to experiment with this child. My parents were behind it.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1543.202

No, I don't think I was aware that was the first.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1548.127

But I mean, it wasn't completely new because these hormones blockers were being given to kids that were entering precocious puberty and in the East Bloc countries for gymnasts, but we don't talk about that. So there is some kind of data there, right? Or at least clinical experience. Exactly.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1631.009

No, because there was an alternative.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1634.632

Yeah, I was like, otherwise I'm leaving, leaving this world. Which I wasn't, but it was that kind of...

The Protocol

The Beginning

1640.879

that feeling was there it was like there's no choice you know that we have to do something this is not okay I'm not doing this yeah I was like put my foot down yeah um no I could be very pig-headed yeah so no I'm not doing it no no no no so uh puberty that was I mean it literally saved my life um so I feel indebted

The Protocol

The Beginning

1688.342

I just, yeah, I do. And it hurt. Because you injected it into a muscle. And because I was also so body critical, I didn't want to inject into my bum, which is the much better option. So I had it done in my leg the first time and that hurt like a motherfucker.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1710.689

No, yeah, no.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1765.363

Yeah, I had to do a lot of psychometric and psychological testing anyway at various points in time. And I remember doing with Peggy. I filled in a lot of paperwork, a lot of questionnaires.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1809.657

And then I decided I didn't want to go on to them until I finished school. Okay. Because I didn't want to have to explain myself. Now I just, I'd frozen time. And if I went on to hormones, which is very paradoxical because on the one hand, all I wanted to do was go on a male hormones. I just didn't want to have to explain it to people.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1828.285

Because again, it would make me vulnerable. And why do I have to explain myself to you? You mean nothing to me. Well, they did, but you know what I mean? It just puts you in a very vulnerable position. I'll never know how it would have been if I had said it. Hello, well, this is what's going to happen. Stand up in class, like, out yourself. I don't want to do that. I never wanted to do that.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1845.032

So I chose not to. And maybe that's my own little hang-up, but that's just pretty much how I went through life.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1901.687

I think that, yeah, it was a bit stressful to be fair because, you know, you have this like kind of underlying stress, a stress with phones because you'd answer and you didn't want to be considered a woman because you had a high voice.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1913.216

But at the same time, so that's always, that always stressed me out, especially when I, as your voice started to change, it just became difficult because, well, well, how are they addressing you now? So you're always thinking about those things plus toilets. Yeah.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1934.572

I felt I didn't want people to point me out as, oh, that's somebody that's going to this. I just didn't want to be seen.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1950.472

But there is still that transition of old life, new life. Who am I going to run into? What do I have to say? Even at university, I ran into people that were from my school. And I remember the one thing I said, I met this guy and he was a year below me. And of course, he knew who I was. And he goes, oh, blah, blah, blah. And my voice is lower. And I went, one thing, don't say she to me.

The Protocol

The Beginning

1975.799

And that was the only thing I said to him. And that was it. We never talked about it again. But there were a few dice situations with somebody else that was, it's amazing how small the world is, that some things got back to other people and they confronted me with it. And I just laughed it off and pretended that I, you know, even I made it ridiculous because I said, oh, what do you think?

The Protocol

The Beginning

1993.055

I want to be a girl. I just turned around. These people were so confused that they dropped it. But that was pretty, you know, you're always in the back of your mind. You're always worried about these things, especially then, because why do I want people to view me differently? That's my whole thing. Then people start to look at you differently.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2008.474

I'm like, no, that's exactly what I don't want people to do. or feel that they have a special bond with because they you know they know something about me which at the same time it's okay but at the same time by saying that you're saying it's a weakness that's what you're saying and they can use it against you whenever they like even though it's like faulting me for being small

The Protocol

The Beginning

2026.496

which people still do. It's still used as a weakness. It's not my fault I'm small. What do you want me to do about it? It's not something that I'm responsible. I'm responsible about how smart I am, what I've done with my life. So you're the loser. But not about how I was born into a body that didn't belong to my mindset. And the only thing I can do is deal with it and be successful at it.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2055.515

No, so I have a lot to say about it, but at the end of the day, I'm like, fuck off. I don't feel like it. Why do I even have to have these thought processes? I've already got my defense ready if it ever came up, because no, I will not be treated in a different way or have the idea that you feel superior because, oh, poor you. Fuck off.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2072.827

That hasn't actually happened, but just to give you an idea of how my mind works.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2081.443

And that's what's formed me. And that's how, that's why I said, I'd never see myself as a victim, but I do feel that I should get some credit for something, which, but obviously I can't because then I'd have to put myself out as a victim. Right.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2093.922

But, you know, it is a big deal. It's like, oh, you know, be the martyr. You know, my first year at university, I had three operations. Nobody knew about it. And I completed my first year with flying colors. And I didn't think anything of it.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2107.853

And then, you know, all years to come, I was in and out of hospital with operations and, you know, even a complication where I had to rush myself off to hospital because I couldn't pee anymore. Oh, my God. But nobody had a clue. And then I had to make a story around that. And I thought, God damn it, I did all that. But I can't say that. Do you know what I mean?

The Protocol

The Beginning

2163.537

Yeah, I think it's a difficult question because I do know I have a very strong opinion on that, but that's my opinion because it's also fed by my own And I try to make the distinction between coming from that particular narrative and being narrow-minded. My conclusion now is that I find that it's gone a bit extreme to the other side.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2187.982

So it makes a laughingstock of what it's really about, or at least it seems to be a fashion statement nowadays. And it's like when you were in the 70s, you were a punker. In the 80s, you were a punker too. We always have to fight against something. We're forging our identities as young people. So we need to stand out.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2211.834

We need to have an opinion against the given society because that's our rite of passage. And it feels like this has become another forum for that, that it's just taken over that role. Yeah. And for the group that is a pure, like proper transsexuals, it's flirting with pronouns and gender identity. It's insulting.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2237.108

Because like I said, we spend all our time trying to just fit in or be able to live the life that we feel we should have had. And it's not great help when you've got people shouting from the barricades and trying to give you a different position, a third sex or whatever, and then talk about things that we don't want you to talk about so that they can identify you.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2261.087

But maybe that's my own... I'm still stuck in my own paradigm. And maybe... That shouldn't be a taboo. Maybe we should break it open. And I don't know. That's not how I feel, but intellectually, I have to think about that.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2275.899

But I don't take a lot of these people that seriously because it does seem to be a bit of a fashion statement.

The Protocol

The Beginning

2289.681

Yeah.

The Protocol

The Beginning

797.056

Can I get you coffee or tea or something?

The Protocol

The Beginning

836.106

No, I don't. You're just a man in the world. I try to get away with a murder. I literally don't tell people that knew me before my transition.

The Protocol

The Beginning

850.833

Yeah, you did. That's one of my bragging rights. I was the first person, so I was like the guinea pig.

The Protocol

The Beginning

860.821

No, the people that are close to me and the people that need to know or I've told, oh, then I love to share because it's, you know, it's something that there's so much that's happened and it explains so much of your personality, your character, your decision making. It's nice to be able to have somebody to talk to about that, but it doesn't need to be common knowledge. Right.

The Protocol

The Beginning

885.664

And if you do mention my profession, then kind of make it a medical profession rather than... Very vague.

The Protocol

The Beginning

903.109

I think that was just to show that I'd managed to achieve some kind of level of profession, which is not completely stupid.

The Protocol

The Beginning

920.279

If I was some loser, then that would be another thing they could hitch to the bandwagon.

The Protocol

The Beginning

924.302

I mean, I could be a loser anyway, regardless. I know many normal cis people that are complete losers. Yeah. It's actually more than... No, but... I don't... No, no, sorry.

The Protocol

The Beginning

951.54

My mother was English because she died. My father's Italian. And they're quite... Well, I think my mother was more liberal than my father because he came from a small village and he's Italian. You probably read that in the case report as well. But, you know, more or less I had a pretty happy childhood. But I was very aware of my... frustrations, which at the time I didn't see as frustrations.

The Protocol

The Beginning

980.745

I just didn't understand. I just assumed that would sort itself out.