Jessica Kriegel

I do think there is something to that. I think being in person does do something to a working relationship that makes it a little bit juicier. I don't know what the definition of juicy is, but call it a vibe, right? Everyone who's listening knows what I'm talking about. Something is different when you meet someone in person. Having said that.

I do think there is something to that. I think being in person does do something to a working relationship that makes it a little bit juicier. I don't know what the definition of juicy is, but call it a vibe, right? Everyone who's listening knows what I'm talking about. Something is different when you meet someone in person. Having said that.

Take your real estate budget and make it a travel budget instead. Let people get together for really intensive three-day thing every quarter rather than going into the office three days a week, maybe or maybe not running into the person, having all of the discomforts of going into the office. And I think you can get maybe even a better result out of your people.

Take your real estate budget and make it a travel budget instead. Let people get together for really intensive three-day thing every quarter rather than going into the office three days a week, maybe or maybe not running into the person, having all of the discomforts of going into the office. And I think you can get maybe even a better result out of your people.

Let me tell you the other real reason that people are doing this, right? For technology companies, they were for the longest time in gather market share mode, build and gather market share, which requires an enormous amount of effort and people where we are building and we're gathering market share and we're growing at the fastest pace possible so that we can be at the top of our game.

Let me tell you the other real reason that people are doing this, right? For technology companies, they were for the longest time in gather market share mode, build and gather market share, which requires an enormous amount of effort and people where we are building and we're gathering market share and we're growing at the fastest pace possible so that we can be at the top of our game.

And these companies have now reached the kind of the peak of that work. They have built the thing. Now it's an iterative process of maintaining, of improving, and continuing to grow incrementally, which means they need a lot less people than they did in growth mode. They are scaling back. They're having layoffs.

And these companies have now reached the kind of the peak of that work. They have built the thing. Now it's an iterative process of maintaining, of improving, and continuing to grow incrementally, which means they need a lot less people than they did in growth mode. They are scaling back. They're having layoffs.

I have spoken with the CEO of one of the biggest tech companies in the world who said, our company will never be bigger than it is today. This is the biggest we will ever be from an employee headcount standpoint. And from now on, We will be getting leaner and we will be getting more efficient with less people. And that's true for most tech companies. So they want to shed employees. They overhired.

I have spoken with the CEO of one of the biggest tech companies in the world who said, our company will never be bigger than it is today. This is the biggest we will ever be from an employee headcount standpoint. And from now on, We will be getting leaner and we will be getting more efficient with less people. And that's true for most tech companies. So they want to shed employees. They overhired.

That was course corrected by the first round of layoffs that you saw last year. But now they're just trying to get leaner and more effective and efficient. And so they're going to continue to lay people off. And this is a way to get people to leave without laying them off.

That was course corrected by the first round of layoffs that you saw last year. But now they're just trying to get leaner and more effective and efficient. And so they're going to continue to lay people off. And this is a way to get people to leave without laying them off.

I think that eventually we will all be working from home. Not next year, but eventually. It does feel inevitable to me. Hybrid has been shown to be one of the hardest models to implement effectively. I do think that of all the models, working from home 100% is the best. And there are plenty of companies that are 100% remote. Many companies have made very...

I think that eventually we will all be working from home. Not next year, but eventually. It does feel inevitable to me. Hybrid has been shown to be one of the hardest models to implement effectively. I do think that of all the models, working from home 100% is the best. And there are plenty of companies that are 100% remote. Many companies have made very...

great results with a company that's 100% remote. And many companies are highly successful being in the office five days a week, right? And then there are, of course, those jobs where you have to be in the office or you have to be on the factory floor. And those will always be, you know, in manufacturing, for example, you have to be there, right?

great results with a company that's 100% remote. And many companies are highly successful being in the office five days a week, right? And then there are, of course, those jobs where you have to be in the office or you have to be on the factory floor. And those will always be, you know, in manufacturing, for example, you have to be there, right?

But hybrid has been very complicated for the reasons you talked about. You go to the office to get on a Zoom. You go to the office and people picked a different day to go to the office and no one's there. So hybrid is hard. Being 100% one or the other is a little bit easier. And I think that it'll take a while, but eventually more people will be working from home than not.

But hybrid has been very complicated for the reasons you talked about. You go to the office to get on a Zoom. You go to the office and people picked a different day to go to the office and no one's there. So hybrid is hard. Being 100% one or the other is a little bit easier. And I think that it'll take a while, but eventually more people will be working from home than not.

It's absolutely true that you have a larger talent pool when your company is remote because you're pulling from a larger pool of people. And so you can be more selective and get higher level talent, right, than if you're geographically remote. landlocked, so to speak. So that's unequivocally true. There's no argument against that. I think moving forward, this is the differentiator, right?

It's absolutely true that you have a larger talent pool when your company is remote because you're pulling from a larger pool of people. And so you can be more selective and get higher level talent, right, than if you're geographically remote. landlocked, so to speak. So that's unequivocally true. There's no argument against that. I think moving forward, this is the differentiator, right?

I would love for the companies that our organization competes against to to force people back into the office because this will become a differentiator for me then and for the job openings that I have that we are remote. You can work from home. Come and apply over here. Don't go to our competitors. They're going to make you go in the office five days a week.

I would love for the companies that our organization competes against to to force people back into the office because this will become a differentiator for me then and for the job openings that I have that we are remote. You can work from home. Come and apply over here. Don't go to our competitors. They're going to make you go in the office five days a week.

And that also is a competitive edge and a differentiator just to be offering that. I have been approached by a lot of organizations to move and take on other roles with better pay and more power, more influence, more whatever it is that everyone wants in their career. But you've got to go into the office five days a week. And I said, no, thank you. There's no way.

And that also is a competitive edge and a differentiator just to be offering that. I have been approached by a lot of organizations to move and take on other roles with better pay and more power, more influence, more whatever it is that everyone wants in their career. But you've got to go into the office five days a week. And I said, no, thank you. There's no way.

It's not part of my value system anymore. And there are a lot of people like me.

It's not part of my value system anymore. And there are a lot of people like me.

We have unlocked a new belief due to the experience of COVID. We all had an experience that was transformative for us in the way we think about work. and where work can be done and how productive we can be at home. And that's not going away, right? We know that now. And if you think about the people who are forcing people back into the office and the language used around that, it's quite telling.

We have unlocked a new belief due to the experience of COVID. We all had an experience that was transformative for us in the way we think about work. and where work can be done and how productive we can be at home. And that's not going away, right? We know that now. And if you think about the people who are forcing people back into the office and the language used around that, it's quite telling.

Return, return to office, go back to the office. Those are regressive phrases that are about going backwards to the way that it was before COVID. They're acting like COVID was a pause on normal and that now we can unpause and go back to normal as if it didn't completely transform our thinking and the nature of the global economy. It did transform us. Now we are different.

Return, return to office, go back to the office. Those are regressive phrases that are about going backwards to the way that it was before COVID. They're acting like COVID was a pause on normal and that now we can unpause and go back to normal as if it didn't completely transform our thinking and the nature of the global economy. It did transform us. Now we are different.

We've been shaped to be different because of what was a global pandemic. catastrophic event that totally upended businesses and people's personal lives. And so our new beliefs exist. And so that is, you know, that's here to stay. What's happened is a change, a change in the nature of work. And the companies that are trying to force people back into the office are not able to adapt.

We've been shaped to be different because of what was a global pandemic. catastrophic event that totally upended businesses and people's personal lives. And so our new beliefs exist. And so that is, you know, that's here to stay. What's happened is a change, a change in the nature of work. And the companies that are trying to force people back into the office are not able to adapt.

They're trying to just go back to how it always has been. And so those those are not the companies that I believe will win.

They're trying to just go back to how it always has been. And so those those are not the companies that I believe will win.

I think there will be a seismic shift. They have made a commitment in their executive closed doors meeting to take this to the limit. Amazon has gone in the public eye, has done media interviews, has adamantly shared that this is happening. And so I think they're prepared for the seismic shift that will happen as a result of that. I think it's going to shake things up.

I think there will be a seismic shift. They have made a commitment in their executive closed doors meeting to take this to the limit. Amazon has gone in the public eye, has done media interviews, has adamantly shared that this is happening. And so I think they're prepared for the seismic shift that will happen as a result of that. I think it's going to shake things up.

So I think they'll go through with it. I think something will shift. I think we'll all see what that is. And no one really knows what it is because this is the first of its kind. And I think the other tech companies will follow based on how it goes with Amazon.

So I think they'll go through with it. I think something will shift. I think we'll all see what that is. And no one really knows what it is because this is the first of its kind. And I think the other tech companies will follow based on how it goes with Amazon.

I think 30% of people were working in some hybrid environment last year, and we had plateaued in that return to office trend post-COVID, but now that plateau is starting to move again. So Amazon is the tip of the spear, and other organizations are following. So I really think this is going to be the 2025 workplace trend, is getting everyone back in the office. And it's not just back in the office.

I think 30% of people were working in some hybrid environment last year, and we had plateaued in that return to office trend post-COVID, but now that plateau is starting to move again. So Amazon is the tip of the spear, and other organizations are following. So I really think this is going to be the 2025 workplace trend, is getting everyone back in the office. And it's not just back in the office.

It's back in the office full-time. It's five days a week. It's sitting in assigned seats. And the problem that I see with that is that you've got people who are being forced to commute, forced to sit in uncomfortable clothes in a cubicle and deal with the cafeteria food or whatever it is, when they've enjoyed a different way for the last few years.

It's back in the office full-time. It's five days a week. It's sitting in assigned seats. And the problem that I see with that is that you've got people who are being forced to commute, forced to sit in uncomfortable clothes in a cubicle and deal with the cafeteria food or whatever it is, when they've enjoyed a different way for the last few years.

The claim is always we are, quote, losing our culture, which I don't even know what that means. As a culture expert, I have no idea what losing a culture is or how that would manifest because it's a total make-believe cliche idea that is an excuse, right? What I think they mean is we don't know how to manage people remotely.

The claim is always we are, quote, losing our culture, which I don't even know what that means. As a culture expert, I have no idea what losing a culture is or how that would manifest because it's a total make-believe cliche idea that is an excuse, right? What I think they mean is we don't know how to manage people remotely.

And so therefore, we're just going to go back into the office because it was easier that way. But they're saying they're losing their culture. They're saying that they need to be more collaborative and they need to create the moments of impact where people run into each other in the hallway at the water cooler, where they can sit in a break room and collaborate about an idea.

And so therefore, we're just going to go back into the office because it was easier that way. But they're saying they're losing their culture. They're saying that they need to be more collaborative and they need to create the moments of impact where people run into each other in the hallway at the water cooler, where they can sit in a break room and collaborate about an idea.

They can stand in front of a whiteboard and doodle things on the wall and be more creative and as a result, be better at their jobs. That's what they're saying, that people will be better at their jobs if they come into the office five days a week.

They can stand in front of a whiteboard and doodle things on the wall and be more creative and as a result, be better at their jobs. That's what they're saying, that people will be better at their jobs if they come into the office five days a week.

I think one of the real reasons that people want to go back into the office is because they're totally lost on how to drive results in a hybrid environment. They cannot figure out how to stop tracking activity and start tracking outcomes and performance manage to outcomes, which is great leadership and harder leadership.

I think one of the real reasons that people want to go back into the office is because they're totally lost on how to drive results in a hybrid environment. They cannot figure out how to stop tracking activity and start tracking outcomes and performance manage to outcomes, which is great leadership and harder leadership.

Instead, they're so used to keeping their eyeballs on people and making sure people are doing their work and asking them, you What I'm doing is I'm saying, how many calls did you make? Did you make the calls? Did you put the calls in Salesforce? Did you get the AI bot to listen to your calls to give us some ideas about how your calls could be better?

Instead, they're so used to keeping their eyeballs on people and making sure people are doing their work and asking them, you What I'm doing is I'm saying, how many calls did you make? Did you make the calls? Did you put the calls in Salesforce? Did you get the AI bot to listen to your calls to give us some ideas about how your calls could be better?

That's what most leaders do is they're just managing activity, and it's lazy leadership, and it's not elevated leadership, and it doesn't work, but it's really much easier to do in person than it is in a hybrid environment. If you were managing to outcomes, you would know that it's just as easy to manage in a virtual environment as it is in an in-person environment, but it's harder to do.

That's what most leaders do is they're just managing activity, and it's lazy leadership, and it's not elevated leadership, and it doesn't work, but it's really much easier to do in person than it is in a hybrid environment. If you were managing to outcomes, you would know that it's just as easy to manage in a virtual environment as it is in an in-person environment, but it's harder to do.

So I think one is management doesn't have the skills to lead in a virtual environment. And so executives are seeing that their managers are failing and they are forcing people back into the office because they don't know how to get their managers to be better. I think a second reason is a lack of trust.

So I think one is management doesn't have the skills to lead in a virtual environment. And so executives are seeing that their managers are failing and they are forcing people back into the office because they don't know how to get their managers to be better. I think a second reason is a lack of trust.

They just think that people are, quote, stealing the company's time by doing laundry and going to their soccer game, et cetera. And it's a mindset issue in which you think that their time belongs to you. And that if they're doing anything other than focusing on productivity in that moment, that therefore they're being unethical, which is more silliness. And then you have kind of the...

They just think that people are, quote, stealing the company's time by doing laundry and going to their soccer game, et cetera. And it's a mindset issue in which you think that their time belongs to you. And that if they're doing anything other than focusing on productivity in that moment, that therefore they're being unethical, which is more silliness. And then you have kind of the...

The meta reason, which is I, as a leader, want to have control and command and control is where I have more power. I have more influence and and I have the ability to make this decision and I'm going to command people back into the office. And so and why not?

The meta reason, which is I, as a leader, want to have control and command and control is where I have more power. I have more influence and and I have the ability to make this decision and I'm going to command people back into the office. And so and why not?

I think it's a company that has a brand that is attractive. Any company, so high-tech firms, Disney, for example, is attractive. People want to work there. And so they have the ability to say, we're going to make it hard for you and we don't care because we know that behind you are 100 other candidates who would like to have your job.

I think it's a company that has a brand that is attractive. Any company, so high-tech firms, Disney, for example, is attractive. People want to work there. And so they have the ability to say, we're going to make it hard for you and we don't care because we know that behind you are 100 other candidates who would like to have your job.

So there's all the real reasons that underlie the spoken reasons that people are saying this. But if you have a good brand, you can get away with it. And so they are.

So there's all the real reasons that underlie the spoken reasons that people are saying this. But if you have a good brand, you can get away with it. And so they are.

Tech has historically been known as the cool kids, and they have the glass offices with the ping pong tables, the kombucha in the break room, the volleyball courts outside, the bring your dog to work day, and all those other great perks that Google made popular 30 years ago now, right?

Tech has historically been known as the cool kids, and they have the glass offices with the ping pong tables, the kombucha in the break room, the volleyball courts outside, the bring your dog to work day, and all those other great perks that Google made popular 30 years ago now, right?

All the other tech firms followed suit because they had to be cool and edgy in order to attract talent when there was the fight for tech talent in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. Well, Law firms, smaller organizations, those firms aren't trying to get people back in the office because our offices are so cool and we need to be more collaborative and creative like we used to be.

All the other tech firms followed suit because they had to be cool and edgy in order to attract talent when there was the fight for tech talent in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. Well, Law firms, smaller organizations, those firms aren't trying to get people back in the office because our offices are so cool and we need to be more collaborative and creative like we used to be.

They're just saying people aren't being as productive. We need people back in the office because they need to get back to work. People are doing laundry and they're going to coffee shops and they're not being as productive. So the reason I'm noticing behind closed doors is different.

They're just saying people aren't being as productive. We need people back in the office because they need to get back to work. People are doing laundry and they're going to coffee shops and they're not being as productive. So the reason I'm noticing behind closed doors is different.

I do think there is something to that. I think being in person does do something to a working relationship that makes it a little bit juicier. I don't know what the definition of juicy is, but call it a vibe, right? Everyone who's listening knows what I'm talking about. Something is different when you meet someone in person. Having said that.

Take your real estate budget and make it a travel budget instead. Let people get together for really intensive three-day thing every quarter rather than going into the office three days a week, maybe or maybe not running into the person, having all of the discomforts of going into the office. And I think you can get maybe even a better result out of your people.

Let me tell you the other real reason that people are doing this, right? For technology companies, they were for the longest time in gather market share mode, build and gather market share, which requires an enormous amount of effort and people where we are building and we're gathering market share and we're growing at the fastest pace possible so that we can be at the top of our game.

And these companies have now reached the kind of the peak of that work. They have built the thing. Now it's an iterative process of maintaining, of improving, and continuing to grow incrementally, which means they need a lot less people than they did in growth mode. They are scaling back. They're having layoffs.

I have spoken with the CEO of one of the biggest tech companies in the world who said, our company will never be bigger than it is today. This is the biggest we will ever be from an employee headcount standpoint. And from now on, We will be getting leaner and we will be getting more efficient with less people. And that's true for most tech companies. So they want to shed employees. They overhired.

That was course corrected by the first round of layoffs that you saw last year. But now they're just trying to get leaner and more effective and efficient. And so they're going to continue to lay people off. And this is a way to get people to leave without laying them off.

I think that eventually we will all be working from home. Not next year, but eventually. It does feel inevitable to me. Hybrid has been shown to be one of the hardest models to implement effectively. I do think that of all the models, working from home 100% is the best. And there are plenty of companies that are 100% remote. Many companies have made very...

great results with a company that's 100% remote. And many companies are highly successful being in the office five days a week, right? And then there are, of course, those jobs where you have to be in the office or you have to be on the factory floor. And those will always be, you know, in manufacturing, for example, you have to be there, right?

But hybrid has been very complicated for the reasons you talked about. You go to the office to get on a Zoom. You go to the office and people picked a different day to go to the office and no one's there. So hybrid is hard. Being 100% one or the other is a little bit easier. And I think that it'll take a while, but eventually more people will be working from home than not.

It's absolutely true that you have a larger talent pool when your company is remote because you're pulling from a larger pool of people. And so you can be more selective and get higher level talent, right, than if you're geographically remote. landlocked, so to speak. So that's unequivocally true. There's no argument against that. I think moving forward, this is the differentiator, right?

I would love for the companies that our organization competes against to to force people back into the office because this will become a differentiator for me then and for the job openings that I have that we are remote. You can work from home. Come and apply over here. Don't go to our competitors. They're going to make you go in the office five days a week.

And that also is a competitive edge and a differentiator just to be offering that. I have been approached by a lot of organizations to move and take on other roles with better pay and more power, more influence, more whatever it is that everyone wants in their career. But you've got to go into the office five days a week. And I said, no, thank you. There's no way.

It's not part of my value system anymore. And there are a lot of people like me.

We have unlocked a new belief due to the experience of COVID. We all had an experience that was transformative for us in the way we think about work. and where work can be done and how productive we can be at home. And that's not going away, right? We know that now. And if you think about the people who are forcing people back into the office and the language used around that, it's quite telling.

Return, return to office, go back to the office. Those are regressive phrases that are about going backwards to the way that it was before COVID. They're acting like COVID was a pause on normal and that now we can unpause and go back to normal as if it didn't completely transform our thinking and the nature of the global economy. It did transform us. Now we are different.

We've been shaped to be different because of what was a global pandemic. catastrophic event that totally upended businesses and people's personal lives. And so our new beliefs exist. And so that is, you know, that's here to stay. What's happened is a change, a change in the nature of work. And the companies that are trying to force people back into the office are not able to adapt.

They're trying to just go back to how it always has been. And so those those are not the companies that I believe will win.

I think there will be a seismic shift. They have made a commitment in their executive closed doors meeting to take this to the limit. Amazon has gone in the public eye, has done media interviews, has adamantly shared that this is happening. And so I think they're prepared for the seismic shift that will happen as a result of that. I think it's going to shake things up.

So I think they'll go through with it. I think something will shift. I think we'll all see what that is. And no one really knows what it is because this is the first of its kind. And I think the other tech companies will follow based on how it goes with Amazon.

I think 30% of people were working in some hybrid environment last year, and we had plateaued in that return to office trend post-COVID, but now that plateau is starting to move again. So Amazon is the tip of the spear, and other organizations are following. So I really think this is going to be the 2025 workplace trend, is getting everyone back in the office. And it's not just back in the office.

It's back in the office full-time. It's five days a week. It's sitting in assigned seats. And the problem that I see with that is that you've got people who are being forced to commute, forced to sit in uncomfortable clothes in a cubicle and deal with the cafeteria food or whatever it is, when they've enjoyed a different way for the last few years.

The claim is always we are, quote, losing our culture, which I don't even know what that means. As a culture expert, I have no idea what losing a culture is or how that would manifest because it's a total make-believe cliche idea that is an excuse, right? What I think they mean is we don't know how to manage people remotely.

And so therefore, we're just going to go back into the office because it was easier that way. But they're saying they're losing their culture. They're saying that they need to be more collaborative and they need to create the moments of impact where people run into each other in the hallway at the water cooler, where they can sit in a break room and collaborate about an idea.

They can stand in front of a whiteboard and doodle things on the wall and be more creative and as a result, be better at their jobs. That's what they're saying, that people will be better at their jobs if they come into the office five days a week.

I think one of the real reasons that people want to go back into the office is because they're totally lost on how to drive results in a hybrid environment. They cannot figure out how to stop tracking activity and start tracking outcomes and performance manage to outcomes, which is great leadership and harder leadership.

Instead, they're so used to keeping their eyeballs on people and making sure people are doing their work and asking them, you What I'm doing is I'm saying, how many calls did you make? Did you make the calls? Did you put the calls in Salesforce? Did you get the AI bot to listen to your calls to give us some ideas about how your calls could be better?

That's what most leaders do is they're just managing activity, and it's lazy leadership, and it's not elevated leadership, and it doesn't work, but it's really much easier to do in person than it is in a hybrid environment. If you were managing to outcomes, you would know that it's just as easy to manage in a virtual environment as it is in an in-person environment, but it's harder to do.

So I think one is management doesn't have the skills to lead in a virtual environment. And so executives are seeing that their managers are failing and they are forcing people back into the office because they don't know how to get their managers to be better. I think a second reason is a lack of trust.

They just think that people are, quote, stealing the company's time by doing laundry and going to their soccer game, et cetera. And it's a mindset issue in which you think that their time belongs to you. And that if they're doing anything other than focusing on productivity in that moment, that therefore they're being unethical, which is more silliness. And then you have kind of the...

The meta reason, which is I, as a leader, want to have control and command and control is where I have more power. I have more influence and and I have the ability to make this decision and I'm going to command people back into the office. And so and why not?

I think it's a company that has a brand that is attractive. Any company, so high-tech firms, Disney, for example, is attractive. People want to work there. And so they have the ability to say, we're going to make it hard for you and we don't care because we know that behind you are 100 other candidates who would like to have your job.

So there's all the real reasons that underlie the spoken reasons that people are saying this. But if you have a good brand, you can get away with it. And so they are.

Tech has historically been known as the cool kids, and they have the glass offices with the ping pong tables, the kombucha in the break room, the volleyball courts outside, the bring your dog to work day, and all those other great perks that Google made popular 30 years ago now, right?

All the other tech firms followed suit because they had to be cool and edgy in order to attract talent when there was the fight for tech talent in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. Well, Law firms, smaller organizations, those firms aren't trying to get people back in the office because our offices are so cool and we need to be more collaborative and creative like we used to be.

They're just saying people aren't being as productive. We need people back in the office because they need to get back to work. People are doing laundry and they're going to coffee shops and they're not being as productive. So the reason I'm noticing behind closed doors is different.