Jessica Vaughan
speaker
42 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard Nov 2024
Jessica Vaughan’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
There's a role for diplomacy. There's a role for carrots and sticks. With the case of Venezuela, we have no relationship with Venezuela right now. But we need to remember also that a lot of the Venezuelans who came here and took advantage of the catch and release policies at the border were living in other countries before they came here.
They were firmly settled with jobs and permission to stay in these countries. And I think we are going to have to try to work with some of those countries to take them back. Maybe not in the case of, you know, gang members like TDA or hardened criminals, but other people who were doing fine in Chile or Peru or Argentina and now are going to lose their work permit.
With the criminals, it's going to take a tougher approach with Venezuela, but there's a tool in the law that allows our government through the State Department to impose a visa ban on countries or groups of people within countries as a sanction to try to get them to relent in their stance of not taking someone back.
So you could go to a country like Venezuela or China and say, look, we're not going to issue visas to your diplomats. or we're not going to issue visas to your kids of government officials who want to come to school in the United States, or to the wives of government officials who want to go visit Vegas, or these people who want to go to Disney World.
Those visas simply are going to be cut off until you start living up to your international responsibilities and take your citizens back. And this has been successful at times in the past when it has been applied. Again, it depends on the country. A country like Haiti, that's a tough situation. We may have to work with third countries on the Haitians.
But, you know, there are tools that we have at our disposal. Maybe we use carrots instead of sticks, offer aid, offer something that those countries want. But we do have leverage and tools available to us. The problem is they've never been used by the federal. I shouldn't say never.
They were never used under Biden, but they haven't been used as much as we should be using them to lean on these countries. So we just, you know, they can't just dump all of their criminals and dissidents and everything else on our doorstep.
Right. The groundwork has to be laid through a public relations campaign for how this is going to be messaged and make sure people understand why it needs to happen.
Well, this also could be a big problem for the Trump administration because as we saw in the first Trump term, the sanctuary jurisdictions became very, very recalcitrant and obstructive and painted this narrative of an overzealous immigration enforcement. And so they started passing laws that forbid local law enforcement agencies to cooperate with ICE.
And what that does is it necessarily means that the criminals that ICE is trying to get for removal are going to be released back to the streets and they end up committing more crimes. There's a couple ways to address it. I think one way is what has been tried, and that is to, since most of these sanctuary policies are in place for political reasons, they're not going to change.
They think they get a benefit from that, even though it's a problem for public safety. So what you have to do is either start withholding certain federal funds from these jurisdictions that don't cooperate, certain federal law enforcement grant programs.
You just have to say, look, if you're going to block our federal agents from getting custody of criminal aliens directly from the jails, then you're just not going to have access to grants for... certain law enforcement agencies in your state or in your city. And that did work to change certain jurisdictions.
Like, for example, Miami-Dade County in Florida said, well, we don't want to lose that money, so we're going to start cooperating with ICE again. So there will be some that come around like that. With others, you may have to file lawsuits.
I think in other places, again, a public relations campaign on the part of ICE by saying, look, this week, the New York City Police Department released these criminals who we were trying to deport. And if they commit a crime, now you know why. It's because your own police department released them. And I think that kind of public attention to what's really going on could work really well for ICE.
Another thing Congress could do is give a private right of action for victims of these crimes if they're serious, to potentially hold the local sanctuary government liable for any problems that are caused when they deliberately release somebody that ICE was trying to take into custody for removal. That's the kind of thing that really gets their attention.
Well, there's no question it's going to make it much, much harder without the support of local law enforcement agencies. If ICE has to start taking to the streets to arrest people in public at their dwelling, or in other situations that's really visible to the public.
It's dangerous, first of all, for ICE and for bystanders, but that's exactly the kind of operation that's going to generate a lot of public backlash. So it would be better if they don't have to do that. Another thing they could do... So a lot of these sanctuary policies are in place for political reasons.
But there's also an argument that's made that if local police have to cooperate with ICE, then immigrants in the community are not going to trust them, are not going to come forward to report crimes. And I've actually learned from studying the Department of Justice data on victimizations that that's not true, that actually immigrants and even illegal immigrants
report crimes just as frequently as Americans do. But I think if there could be some outreach to immigrant communities to explain what ICE's priorities are and how they're going to operate and who they're looking for and why they need the cooperation, that itself could actually help restore some of that trust or at least
provide another way to get that trust in immigrant communities to avoid these kinds of fear campaigns that the sanctuary jurisdictions try to use to discredit ICE. You know, they should be working with immigrant communities, with leaders, and with local law enforcement agencies to find ways that immigrants can access
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