Jim Gaffigan

It was really interesting because that is one of the questions that, you know, I've been doing stand up or in the comedy thing for 35 years. And I never auditioned for SNL. I've never hosted, never. And it's just, it never lined up where it was a possibility. I think there was talk of me auditioning to be a writer, but at that time I was like, no, I want to be an actor.

I want to be on the West wing. And so I, I mean, I'll just, no, but I was terrible instincts. Why Rob Lowe?

It's the, the ultimate graduate school of comedy, right? To go there, there's nothing that is unique to the comedy business. I mean, it's a unique television show in that they, you know, outside of Living Color and MADtv, no one's even come close to replicating it. Probably financially doesn't make sense. And it's the impact on the zeitgeist. So it was a huge thing.

I've always been aware that it's something that you don't campaign for. And so I'm respectful of the boundaries and kind of the cultural phenomenon that it is. So when... She picked Tim Walls as her running mate. And then Steve Martin turned it down. You know, the internet was bringing up like every doughy white Midwestern guy.

And I was like interested, but I was like, well, I'm not, you know, you can't campaign for it.

Yeah, you can't be like, hey, you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to go on Howard Stern and do my Tim Wallace impression. You can't do that, right? And so I very much stood back. And then I would check in with my manager who would say, you know, here's what they're thinking, you know, but you're supposedly on a list. And, again, there's nothing you can do on it. And so then I was in –

You know, I get one acting job a year. So I was in England doing this acting job. And then and at night I'm walking back to my hotel and I get a call from my manager and he's like, hey, so we've been telling people at the Booker at SNL that you've been sending us little videos where you're pretending to be Tim Wallace. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And he goes, you weren't. And I wasn't.

And so he was on with my manager and my agent. I'm like, oh, well, that's an interesting approach. But, you know, this is what you guys do. And they're like, yeah. And now they want to see those. And I'm like, so what do you mean they want to see them? I'm like, well, we brought it up. And now they're like, why don't you send them? I'd be mad at this management team.

And so so I then I spent the next hour. Kind of in my hotel room, taking off a jacket, putting on a thing, doing different. And I had kind of been, you know, checking out Tim Walls and looking at speeches. And then I just, in that moment, I just did an impression of my brother, Mitch, who is this, similar to Tim Walls, a very sincere, enthusiastic person.

midwestern guy who's kind of got a little bit of that golly gee and so i essentially did an impression of my brother mitch in the different settings in this england hotel sent him off and then uh you know i don't know what happened but it worked they hired your brother mitch so when people are like how do you do that impression i'm like well just don't meet my brother mitch and we should be fine yeah

Grow up in Indiana. Yeah, grow up in Indiana. Surround yourself with very sincere Midwestern people that have that optimism that Tim Walz has, you know? Which is like, we can do this. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, jeez, come on, Jimmy. You know, like, that's my brother Mitch. I mean, jeez, Jimmy. You know, God. I mean, Jimmy, you're a bad driver.

Like, my brother Mitch would just get so angry when I would drive him.

Yes. He's, like, a great guy. So it's... That's what happened. But it was absurd because not only was I... So this opportunity to be on SNL. And it was just for five weeks. But then they bring in all these all-stars, right? So they bring in Maya, who I had worked with before, Dana, and Andy.

And I'm like, so not only am I doing this guest star, but, like, the MVP from every decade for the last 40 years. So it was stressful in an unnecessary way. Where it's like, you know, I go on stage in front of huge rooms, but I was like... I have two lines. How do I do it? So I was definitely a little nervous.

This is madness. It is, it's insane every step of the way. So I remember I did the table read the first week, I guess that's on Tuesday. And then I was like, all right, I know what I'm, and I know that there's going to be a lot of changes. And then by the end, I would be like calling my point person at like 10, you know, eight o'clock on Friday. I'm like, do we know what we're doing?

And they're like, oh, I'm going to send it. You know, it's just, Because it's the cold open and it was the election, so there were things where if you have an idea, you're looking at a writer who's been up for four days, who's also realizing there's the element of serving everyone in the cold open. There's also Lauren's stuff. So it's a very complicated thing.

So you're like, I don't want to be a pain in the ass. Like one of the things I kind of pride myself on is hopefully being a good soldier when I'm in a situation like that. Do your part well. Don't let anybody down. Yeah, and not be the pain in the ass. So I kind of want to do that.

But yeah, so that whole process of the bureaucracy, and maybe that's not the right term, but it's the process is so bananas that you also have to just go with the flow. And then the meeting in between the dress where Lauren would go up there and be like, don't touch your ear. And you're like, okay. All right. I won't touch. I didn't know I was touching my ear, but OK.

And some of it is he's giving his notes. He's also this icon who obviously, you know, like I realize now that he is the modern day equivalent of P.T. Barnum. Right. Like the impact he has on the zeitgeist is so enormous. So he sits there and he goes, yeah, we're not going to do that.

Things that I think people could judge as bizarre, but if you consider the history and the on-base percentage, the batting average, it's pure genius. Yeah.

And I think, There is also something of the resiliency that you need to process. I mean, you went through it, but the resiliency that these creative types, these people that are creative because they know how to react, listen to their emotions or keep in touch with their point of view. Right. Because even the... So, like, I only did one table read. So, like, I don't even know what day that is.

And then also, like, the moving parts. Like, I think on the last episode, they dress, they did cuts. And then I think they had to cut a sketch mid-show. Yeah, they do. All the time. Which is just like, how do you... Yeah, not happening. No, I...

Well, I am standing back. I have no opinion on that. I am... If nominated, I will not serve you. I have all respect for the process.

There were 105 kids in the entire school, but there were 25 in my graduating class. There were five girls. What?

And 20 guys. Jesus. And but Chief Justice John Roberts went there. Oh, really? And but it was it was kind of. Yeah. So now I think it's 150 people. It's just blown up. Seven girls. Now it's huge. Six girls. But it was a great experience. And, you know, there's a delusion in those smaller schools where you're like, you know what? Yeah. Yeah.

So like I didn't have that John Hughes experience where there were the potheads and the jocks and the beautiful people. It's like everyone was everything. Yeah. So I think that kind of had an impact where I didn't necessarily I wasn't. So when I got to college, I wasn't swayed by I shouldn't I should only hang around football players or I should only do this or that.

Yeah. No, it is. It is weird because having done corporates, you've done corporates.

Yeah.

And they'd be like, hey, we thought you had a joke or something. Yeah. Well, sometimes they're like, you can make fun of it. Make fun of, you know, Mindy. She's in charge of marketing. Go after her. And then you look at Mindy. I don't do that stuff anyway. But then you look at Mindy and she's like, what are you doing?

It was just that one thing.

person's bad idea do you know what I mean and so but the corporate setting is such a like there is part of me that because I feel like I can work in those corporate settings where I that means that it might be all over because like I would do a corporate show I would bomb and then you get off and they were like you were great you know we just don't laugh no one laughed they're like we're too rich to laugh yeah well we were golfing all day so but you're much better than the guy before who made fun of Mindy yeah

Yeah. Bring the clown. We're ready for the clown. The court jester. And I could see some of the- Did I challenge the king too much? Yeah.

Oh, that must have went well. If there was no money, that means it's pure death. It was...

But there are people like Regis Philbin would love that. People listening are like, who's Regis Philbin? But there are some people, it is kind of in their DNA. People love doing it or love being the recipient? What do you mean? I think someone like, not that I know Regis or knew him, but like there's some people that are like showmen that would be relish the opportunity.

It's kind of, even when we did that Pope thing. Oh, we got to talk.

Julia Louise Dreyfuss. Julia Louise Dreyfuss. I mean, the list goes on.

David Sedaris. Tig Notaro. Yeah, just Rami. Just, you know, just really interesting. I mean, it's such a surreal experience. But, like, in that setting, like, I don't know if you remember, because we all went in there. It was like every... First of all, it's...

Yeah, he's like in his 80s.

Yeah, and there's comedians from every country. There's probably a humorous take on where there was a meeting and someone was like, well, why don't we bring in the comedians from throughout the world? But the Pope was, you know, it was about humor, how we could help. I don't know.

Yeah. And we were going in. I did notes on the thing and I handed it. I'm like, here's my rewrite.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, so we are in this room in the Vatican, and there's comedians from all the different countries, like Stephen Merchant. There were some countries where you're like, shouldn't they have more people from... There was no one from the Philippines. I was like, I've been to the Philippines. That's a pretty Catholic country.

And there were a couple of people I quizzed, and they were like, I'm more of a weatherman.

Okay. But yeah, it was just a little... I'm a cartoonist. Yeah. And there was... So there's 300, I don't know how many. All over the world, yeah. All over the world sitting in this room. It was everyone that couldn't behave in church or synagogue or in the mosque was in this room. And then there would be, because it was his third meeting, there'd be these people that would walk by.

The Swiss guards came out.

Leonardo Da Vinci.

And they're walking by. So there's people you feel like you're it's so you're just sitting in the room waiting. And there's people, these characters that go by that are from like medieval times. Yes. You're like, what? It was a medieval fair. It's like, what is going on? So you think, oh, the Pope's coming. But in that setting, do you remember Jimmy Fallon stood up and did bits?

And I was like, he's the king of the clowns.

And we're...

But it was very funny. But it was also it was it was this meeting of everyone who couldn't behave, who was at one point in eighth grade sent to the principal's office.

Because that was also fun seeing people's different reactions. Everyone was different.

Well, he knows you, I think. No, well, I mean, I've met him, but I don't think... Well, he went to your high school. He went to the Pope. It's you, Roberts, and the Pope. But Stephen did, I think, he does the audible or the audio of all the Pope's books. Yes, and he told that to the Pope. Yeah. when he was up there.

No, no, no.

I'll get your gold. I'll get your gold. You'll see. That's a spicy meatball.

It was weird. After that event, they let us into this room and there was this red carpet like media. And I was like, oh, now I know why we're here. But it was kind of what they do in an award show. Everyone's there to get their media. And also get the message out. You know what I mean? And as you said, it was a very sincere message.

Great example of something that's cool, complicated. Like you've been talking to Julia Louise Dreyfuss. There's some complexity at the dinner. She's like, I don't know how I feel about some of this. I'm like, that's why it's interesting, because it's complex.

Yeah. I love doing events like that where it's a little bit you're going to anger some people. Like I did the Al Smith dinner, which is with Trump there. Trump was there.

She did not go. And there was because there was part of me that's like that was, you know, I'm not a Trump guy, but like there was part of me. And there were plenty of people that were invited. They're like, I'm not even going to sit in the same room as him. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

And so there is something where... And so when I did that, I knew there were going to be people on the left and on the right that were going to be angry, which almost kind of ties back to, like, you know, that moment of where people are uncomfortable that it's kind of you relish it. And the challenge, which kind of... The no-win situation of the Al Smith dinner.

But I love history and the association with... I usually... I'm a...

Yeah. And there are people today that on my Twitter X or whatever it's called will be like, I can't believe you were in the same room with him. And I'm like, well, I don't know. I feel like that's kind of the opposite of discourse. Like you shouldn't. So anyway, that's why I'm running for senator.

Yeah, I think it's really peculiar how people are secretive about taking an appetite suppressant. Or maybe they aren't secretive. I mean, there's people that walk around with... their hair dyed a different color. And we all know that, but nobody would think it was that weird.

I love donuts.

Yeah, I think there is. I think that's what this drug, I mean, this is not humorous, but, like, I think that that's what this drug proves is that, like, some people, it might not be psychological. It's a chemical thing because it's fixed by chemical that they have a chemical compulsion. I mean, I come from a family that is, like, big eaters. And that's a good sound effect.

Celebrate or, you know, lick your wounds by... overeating. Yeah. Like my brother and I was like, oh, I could throw up. That's what, you know, like when you've eaten so much, you're like, oh, oh, I could throw up. I feel great. You know what I mean? We did it. We did it.

Yeah. But I also think it's temporary, meaning we're eventually going to find out that it makes people grow tails or something like that, right? So I view this weight loss as completely, I don't think I'm going to be, not that I'm even super thin, but I imagine it's an ongoing battle, my weight. Right.

And now it's alcohol. No. But there is something. But The Skinny, there is about the appetite suppressant. But I use the title The Skinny because that's, you know, you write the stand-up and then kind of the theme, you see the theme when you look at the material. And some of the special is about parenting teenagers. Like, I had no idea how...

difficult it was going to be to parent teenagers because they, and I say that with empathy and also exhaustion and part of, I don't want to do it anymore, is because it's so difficult. And I think, because I think adult humans, we have a built-in forgetter of the anxiety and the stress of being a teenager because it's painful for them.

When they're going through it and you're this parent, it's not an easy road, even for the best kids. I complain about my kids, but I do that in every special too.

My name is Jim Gaffigan, and I feel... I told myself I wasn't going to cry. I feel like they're going to edit this. I feel privileged about being Conan O'Briens. That's so nice.

And since they're teenagers, I know they'll never watch the special, so it doesn't matter.

Oh, well, thank you.

I don't know what to do.

Yeah, that's more like it. I don't like the compliments, you know?

Yeah, that's more like it.

Listen.

Really?

Oh, well, thank you. That's it. Got to go. Yeah. No, but it is. I mean, that's what's so rewarding is the coming up with the material, right? Yeah. That's the whole lesson that I want to share with Evelyn. It's enjoying the process. Oh. No, but there is something.

Like, whenever I get frustrated, I lose sight the fact that it is really rewarding to kind of come up with material and be able to do it.

I mean, there's like 35.

You are 8,000.

i say that in a very catholic way but you it was all built you've built this thing and now you're i'm hard-pressed to think of anyone else who could tour with jerry seinfeld you know and thanks it's crazy yeah no it's i mean i'm very grateful and it's a weird thing you know there is nothing normal about going on stage and trying to make strangers laugh so that's whenever like comedians are like yeah these weird people i'm like

Like, there's nothing weirder than going on stage and trying to get the approval of a room full of strangers. Right. Who sometimes are hostile to begin with. And also, it's like, it is a conversation, but it's very, you know, it is very one-sided. It's like, I'm the only one with a microphone, and if they responded verbally, I'd have them removed. Yeah.

It is a unique conversation, but it is the perfect type of conversation where they can respond with he, he, he, or silence. That's one of their options. Did you ever have this?

Well, you want to relieve the tension, right? Yeah. You know, you can identify that in comedians. Like Bill Burr will say a statement where people are like, come on, don't say that. Yeah. And then he will win you over and you're like, all right, yeah, I guess you have a point there.

I mean, I don't know if I'd say it, I'd phrase it the way you're saying, but yeah, you make a point. Sure. But a lot of comedians love that tension. Yeah. Yeah. When you relieve it or release it, it's more rewarding. You know what I've been dying to talk to you about ever since we did that benefit with God's Love Delivered?

It's an incredible organization. We visited the day before. It's a giant kitchen where they make food. For people that are ill and then also for their caretakers, it's like it's the whole package. I think it really kind of kicked off during the AIDS epidemic, but it's like been going strong.

Yeah, it was amazing. Oh, but so then we, so we're figuring out what we're going to do for this. And then there's also these elements where they're like, I think it was that event where they're like, Bill Murray might show up, Martin Short might show up. And here's what I'm getting to. Like there is, because there's this ongoing kind of, you show affection by criticizing someone.

And then how that overlaps with the, roast comedy and here's my point my point is i believe the the most powerful roaster or roast comic that's ever existed and this includes don rickles i think martin short yeah i'm totally with you beyond a doubt the quickest meanest yes It's so funny. Yes. And he does the Jiminy Glick because he's a sweet guy.

And so he's stating the obvious.

Oh, sorry, I cut you off. No, no, no, go ahead. I just think it's so fascinating.

The artistry of what he does it and compared to like roasting where you see someone, you know, even that Tom Brady roast or you think of Don Rickles, who is obviously magical. But what Marty does, he does it in such. And by the way, none of it's scripted. I think he's just he just does it.

Really?

Maybe some of the Jiminy Glick.

Because when we did the God's Love Delivered, he literally walked out, stole the whole show just dressing us down. Yes. For five minutes and left. Yeah. He was shooting the next day. He's 75 years old, walked out, ripped into us, left. And everyone's like, well, that's the best part of the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And these two pale, these two skeletons are standing there.

That was a joy. And he's also a sweet guy. Oh, he's the real deal, yeah. When he's not performing, you're like, it's, I don't know, maybe he's got a split personality. And he was also great on that. He's a great actor, too. Yeah. He was great. Now it's like I'm trying to win him over for some job. It's a good guy. He's, you know, he's riding high. He's riding high.

I think he controls some purse strings.

I don't have anything against Los Angeles. I mean, I'm not a fan of sunlight, but I'm very much, too much show business is not good for my mental health. That's what I like about New York, that you have friends that are not in the business and you can kind of separate yourself from it, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've definitely... I think my career might be completely different if I lived in LA. I mean, it is 99% of the business. Right. But it's also, I don't want to sound like the person, you know, like there's a, you know, like, I'm not like Sam Shepard said, I'm on a farm in Virginia. Right. You can fax me only. You know what I mean? It's like, I wish I could be that guy.

I mean, I definitely care. I'm definitely the guy who's, you know, works really, I'm the guy who does his homework. You know what I mean? I'm not like, I don't even know, I don't even know my agent's name.

It was a little bit of both, but it was... I would say, yeah, stand-up was something I always did, but I always wanted to act. But there's such fantastic actors in New York.

But wait, I want to get into the stand-up.

The first time, I was so... You know, there's such an audacity necessary to go into this business, right? And also with stand-up, to go on stage, that... I waited until someone dared me. I had a fear of public speaking, so I took an improv class. This was way before UCB existed. And in the improv class, someone was like, there's a stand-up seminar. This is in 1990, 1991.

Is this New York or Chicago? New York. So I did stand-up for the first time. And it was, I fell in love immediately. And then- How about that? Kind of bombed for six months and yeah. Did you write, did you write, did you write jokes that first time or did you just kind of wing it? What'd you do? Oh yeah, no, it was, I did this, it was kind of like a seminar thing.

It was like someone really holding your hand, you know? It was, yeah, it wasn't like me and my buddies went to a club and I got on stage and it was magic, you know?

I mean, it's, you know, at this point, I haven't done jokes from... back then for at least a decade. And sometimes I'll write a joke and I'll think, oh, this is great. And then, you know, my wife will be like, you know, that was on like your third special, that joke. I'm like, oh, all right. You're like, I don't even remember that I had done a joke. You already complained about your kids that way.

Yes, yes. So she did directing and she also was the showrunner of the Jim Gaffigan show. Oh, wow. And when we were... But, you know, initially when it was stand-up, we used to totally, once we were married, we wrote together. And then with five kids, it's, you know, you're lucky to have a conversation with, you know, your partner.

Yeah, that was, you know, before cable completely fell apart, or even though I guess it's coming back, We had a deal at CBS. We did two rounds of pilots. They were committed to single-camera comedies, and then they weren't. And so they released us, and we... we had an offer from a couple cable things. But the most attractive offer came from TV Land.

TV Land was going to do this massive rebranding thing. And of course, we were like, all right, yeah, great. And then we went over there. And then a month before the show started airing, they, yeah, we're not going to do a massive rebranding thing.

We produced... With Betty White. Hot in Cleveland. Yeah, wait a minute. Were you on... Was Teachers you guys? No, that was Melissa, I think. Hot in Cleveland with Betty White. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that was part of the big TV Land relaunch.

I wrote the pilot with Peter Tolan. Oh, yeah.

The great Peter Tolan. And then he was under a Sony deal, and so he couldn't go... When we went to TV Land. I mean, sometimes they re-aired every episode on Comedy Central, so that's where people would end up seeing it. Yes.

I love steak, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so do you guys try, how often do you guys get together and pretend to like each other?

Not that often. It's too hard.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's what's also so great about whenever I do,

podcast is like it forces you to have these conversations with your friends because things can spin out of control and and it's like getting paid to hang around your friends is not bad that's how this started i know you guys donate all your money a lot of people don't know that all the money is donated wait are you which is amazing are you worried though like

You are Midwestern. Yeah, I like it. I like it at a steakhouse when they kind of show you the meat or they show you a potato. We got a potato. We got this lobster flown in from Maine. It's just like, it's like so dumb guy ish. Like, Hey, you're a dumb guy. This is a potato. We can cook it for you. I love it. Yeah.

I think seven times, but you know, I'm never going to win one, but like, that's, it is amazing. Well, because some of it is like, I'm just so thrilled that the Grammys even include, you know, standup comedy. And in the end, there's always, you know, some very important newsworthy comedic event that's occurred, you know, whether it be, uh,

you know, Chappelle doing anything or like, you know, one year was Weird Al Yankovic had did the first comedy album in 25 years. It's like, obviously he's going to win. You know what I mean? Right, right, right, right, right.

Yep. By the way, it's so funny. That's the gramophone. Yeah. With the horn. It's funny. Jim, sometimes you sit back and just... Just marvel.

Yeah, no, there's, I mean, there's definitely, you guys were talking about I feel like I'm so goofy looking. So like I'm very recognizable if you know who I am.

But like a pale version of it. So it's like I'm either the guy that, you know, shovels your driveway or I'm Jim Gaffigan, right? So there is... So I could be, and I have horrible vision. But because I'm pale and goofy looking, people can see me from far away. They're like, oh, is that, hey, is that Jim Gaffigan? And I can't see who they are because I'm blind.

Yeah, a lot, you know, like I'm playing, I'm, you know, I've provided them a riddle. You know what I mean? Like, hey, do I, how am I supposed to know you?

Especially in strip clubs. They're always like, who is that guy? It's too dark in there. Yeah, because you've got five kids.

Trying to get a six kid.

Oh, yeah. You know what I would say is the... You know, there is a theater story. I did that championship season on Broadway. And it was... The amount of testosterone in the cast was absolutely insane. It was me, Kiefer Sutherland, Brian Cox, Chris Noth, and Jason Patrick, whose dad wrote the play. And so it's a great play, and it was...

But, like, so, like, when you talk about theater stories, we went... I mean, it's also, like, this last... I think of, like, there's this last generation of people that... And there's a segment of this generation that drink like our parents did. And those guys are those guys. And so every night, we would... Every night was like a... It was... The stamina is just bizarre.

Like these guys can throw it away and then get up and do a matinee. And I was just like, I can barely walk.

Well, I'm sure they're all doing, but like they were, it was so bizarre to go out on stage because I always had this vision of Broadway being, oh my, you know, like people in top hats and stuff like that. And it's like, people would walk out and people are like, 24, a section this, you know, it was just bizarre how it was. It was that people were going to, so they could see Mr. Big.

Right, right, right, right, right.

I try to block out some really humiliating things. But I did a show on Long Island at Governor's, and... And, you know, Long Island is great, but like parts of Long Island, you know, it can be not necessarily combative, but just kind of... Oh, yeah. And I would walk on stage when I started, you know, looking like the farm boy that I wanted to be. And...

These, you know, like these New Yorkers would be like, look at this guy. You know what I mean? And so like early 90s comedy was very combat driven. Like this guy is just a pussy. You know what I mean? And so I remember I was on stage. It was a late show at Governor's and I got on stage and someone in the audience was mooing. They were actually mooing. Mooing. Moo.

And I was like, oh, this is great. Okay. So, because I'm from Indiana, they're mooing. And so then I tried to, you know, deal with the heckler. And normally, you know, you have a microphone, you have an advantage, but it didn't really work. And so then eventually... There was enough slack on the microphone. So I walked into the audience to find out who this mooing person was.

And there was somebody severely handicapped lying in a hospital bed who could only articulate.

Only communicate by going, move. No. So I had spent a good 20 minutes tearing into this severely disabled. Like they had like the keyboard and everything. And I'm just like, but the crowd had known. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to kill myself. And they, you know, they were very forgiving. And the person, you know, loved the attention. But that was probably the...

Well, that's quite a story.

I love doing both of them because I think that stand-up is such a bizarre existence at night and stuff like... And it's so solitary and it can... Whereas the collaborative thing of acting is so amazing. But I think the process of getting acting jobs is so maddening that I would totally lose my mind if I had to rely just on that emotionally.

You can get the creative fulfillment, whereas... You know, I've done a lot of dramas, but to this day, I had a meeting two days ago, and I've done tons of dramas, and people are always, they all have the idea, what if we put Jim Gaffigan in a drama? And I'm like, all right.

I mean, most of them have been indies, but I'm like, and you want to be polite and go, yeah, sure, that would be great, even though I've been doing that for a long time.

Yeah, I think, you know, I've toured doing stand-up with my 18-year-old son. He's really funny.

Yeah, he's done, yeah. Oh, really? That's cool. You know, last couple spring breaks, we've done that. But it's such a weird business. It's like, and my oldest daughter, who's 20, really loves acting. And I'm like, you know there's no jobs, right? There's just... You want to, and so I'm like, if you want to, you have to create your own job.

So I'm like, I'll pay for film school, but like, there's no, you know. Right, it's not like it used to be. Yeah, it's.

I think Arrested Development, I tested for that. Or I was... Wait. Maybe not a network test, but a studio test. What part? I think the David Cross one. Yeah? Okay. But I think that... Oh, my God, that would have been great. No, it's even worse than that. It was... Because there's also, during pilot season, there's like, do you want to commit to this pilot? Do you want them in first position? Yes.

And I think I had been... offered a pilot to be in first position. And I was like, all right, fine. Yeah, let's do that first position. It was garbage, but I'm like, all right, fine. I just want to act. And then, because I had worked with Mitch Hurwitz the year before on Ellen DeGeneres' sitcom, and he's like, hey, why don't you come in and audition for this? Because I had been...

uh schmoozing him to get a part on it because you know obviously he's brilliant right yeah yeah and so uh but i and then i and then he was like yeah you're in first position and this is a low budget thing we can't have anyone in because we're gonna do it oh yeah because remember the premise was like that they were gonna do it in a different way yeah remember it was written remember he wrote that cover letter on

Martin Mull was on that show. That was so... We loved Martin Muller. I mean, he was such a sweet guy. Such a sweet guy. And it was so bizarre to see this guy that I had watched on Fernwood Tonight.

I mean, it was just, and you know, I mean, I know I'm older than you guys, but you have to understand, that was... That was the bizarre, him and Fred Willard, that was like my first exposure to like bizarre comedy.

Well, also I had no idea that Martin Mull was this brilliant painter. Like he went to art school to be a painter and then he would just tell stories about Steve Martin, which was amazing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a mall right there.

I started off... Well, I studied finance, but then... That's wild. You went to school for finance. I was a copywriter in an advertising agency. Really? Yeah. I think it was really helpful in learning some, you know, some word economy and efficiency of writing. But it was – I was the weird guy in the corporate setting, like, Jim's crazy. You know, like, he's napping in his room.

Meanwhile, you know, I got, like, three hours of sleep the night before. But, yeah, there was – I was the last of my friends to have a day job because I think the remnants of that retaining security had really stayed with me. And I also knew that I didn't want to just do some horrible bar gigs. And I tried to limit some of the humiliation.

I didn't really. I still don't know anything about finance. And it's like I went to college and... I even joke around about that in my news special. It's like, it's really sad. I mean, I have middle schoolers and I look at their math and I'm like, did they introduce new numbers? Because I don't know what's going on.

And also, if I looked at the Wall Street Journal financial section, I wouldn't know. And I probably passed a class in it. Right.

That's crazy. And I'm only 22. Jim. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty cool. Oh, thanks. What did you say?

No, he's only 22 years old.

It's all self-assignment, right? Like every aspect of this business, right? We have this notion that someone's sitting at a counter at a soda shop and someone comes up. It's like you have to steer it. You have to sit there and go, I want to do this. But what I love about writing stand-up is... that it's something I have control over.

So it's like, look, I would love it if I didn't have time to do it as much as I do. And I have turned down a fair amount of... I mean, I love just complex characters. So if it's a good acting role, I'd love to do it. But if it's... you know, some kind of silly comedy where I would have fun doing it, but it wouldn't be something great.

You know, I try not to, and also I have kids, so I have to be very selective on why I'm being out of town, why I'm going out of town, meaning I got to make money, you know, but I do a lot of indies where I make nothing.

Absolutely. That's why we're still in New York City. I mean, I wanted my kids to be New Yorkers, but also, it's so great. I can just go and do a show at Gotham or... you know, the New York Comedy Club, and then I can be home and, you know, try and tear the screens away from the kids, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Yes, I do love gardening.

During the pandemic, we got a place in Westchester, and they had some raised beds there, and I love that. But I love gardening, and during the pandemic, I got into bourbon. If I'm talking to three people in the entertainment industry, I assume two of you don't drink any longer. Right. So I was like a beer guy. And then during the pandemic, I kind of got into bourbon.

And then, I mean, we've all probably been approached. Maybe you guys have a celebrity spirit, but I didn't want to do that. But I have a buddy from Louisville and I was like, can't, because some of them are just so bad. So I was like, can't we just pick our own and do this? And he's like, you might just end up with a bunch of barrels of a bunch of bottles of bourbon. I'm like, that's fine.

So I'm doing that until I eventually join AA, I guess in three years. I don't know.

Ketamine is great. It's just a starting point.

So you can still eat like you're in third grade and you look great. A little bit.

I got a cookie pouch.

Oh, there you go. That's it.

No, I thought it was... Growing up in the Midwest, I used to look around and be like... I mean, I know I wanted to be a farmer and everything, but like... Sure. I was like, oh, I think there's, I used to, oh, there's been a mistake. I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supposed to be in New York. And then I got to New York and I was like, oh, well, I'm finally home.

And they're like, you're the most Midwestern looking guy I've ever seen in my life. So I realized how Midwestern I was when I left the Midwest.

And it's a sexiness, right? Like when you think Midwestern, they think sexy, you know. Yeah. Tim Walls, sexy.

Yeah, you're such a consistently- Next steak dinner, you know, when I wait, you know, your table, please tip. You know what I mean? Some of it's for the bus boys.

I would totally do that.

No, I love it, because there's certain excuses. Like when I go out with Seinfeld, I'm like, it's like, Jerry wants me to have pizza. And my wife's like, I understand. But if I'm just, you know, hanging out, you know, there has to be a reason behind it. And you guys are, you know, very high status. Wow.

Wow.

Wow. Wow. Hello there. I'm a big fan of yours. Oh, shucks. Jeez. Oh, man. You know what's so weird is you guys went to dinner last night, and I don't know why, and I think the listeners should know this, that you made me be the waiter, which I thought was strange.

well just as a rehearsal yeah hear us out jim we just figured that you we know how real you like to keep it yeah i mean a lot of people should know that sean hayes does not tip no not financially i said is this it uh do you need change and he said i need you to change your attitude and

No. Damn it.

I only remember that because I saw a photo of it. Because I had a Dynamite hat.

yeah I'm probably older than all you guys but like probably not there was a big I mean Will looks the oldest but like the big wait a second wait a second do I no I think it's Will could be like well I think Will would be there is a lot of people don't know he's doing a movie where he's playing Gavin Newsom's dad yeah wow

You know, Will, I just do that because I'm scared. Why? Frankly, I'm a little scared. I'm intimidated. Why? Three buddies. I'm the new kid. I don't know how to fit in. You're so safe here.

Was that right?

I know, because you've been always crushed.

Just trying to get my dad to like me. And I don't know if it's going to work.

No, he's been dead for like 20 years. You're waiting for a message? He's right over here.

Wake up. Every morning I'm like, wake up. He's really tired. He's really tired.

I was on this show, Silver Spoons.

That was Jason. No, there was an era in the 90s where they really loved the idea of the dumb white guy in every commercial. And I was like, I'll do that. Sean wasn't available. I did those too. I did a ton of them. There's a lot of dumb white guy work and I loved it.

Or the Progressive Girl.

Yes, I did Rolling Rock and Saturn, which was a car company.

Is it Jimmy? Yeah, it's Jimmy. I was, when I was a little kid, I was Jimmy. Now, where are you from, Sean?

Yeah. Well, we moved pretty quickly to Northwest Indiana. I mean, when I was eight, I guess.

What kind of, what did you want to farm? You know, I think corn. Sure. It's weird. It's a pretty vague dream.

Not something sexy like soybeans or rye, but like corn, you know, like a normal plant. No, I did want to be a farmer. And then, but I also wanted to be an actor in a community.

Yes. So crazy.

He thought it was pretty fucking stupid. No, you know, it was, my parents were children of, You know like their parents went through the depression.

So like it was the whole objective was to seek security Yeah, and I think my family had been in the country and my father was the first one to go to college But before that everyone was coal miners So it was just like we finally got to the middle class and you want to become a show person It was absurd. It was like why throw it away and

Well, the alcoholism was so significant by the time we were teenagers. Yeah, same. Were you close with your dad? My dad was this huge influence on me, but it was weird. I think it was mostly trying to make my mom laugh, but... You know, the whole father relationship is so complex.

And again, I think, I don't know about with you, there was such a parental fatigue that had hit by the time I was a teenager. My dad was like, I didn't even sign up for any of this. You know what I mean? And having children myself, I'm kind of like... Can they go to boarding school or middle school? Can they do that? It's just, it's exhausting, right?

Yes, yes. I have five. I have five. Oh, my God.

I'm a very fertile guy. How old is your youngest, Jim? He just turned 12. Oh, wow. Wow. And I feel like with every kid, there was a reason for me to like them. You're like, all right, this one likes me so much. I like him. And then my youngest one looks like me. And so I'm like, all right, I got a mini me. I got to be excited about that. Yeah.

Yeah, of course. Right? Yeah, totally. It's like,

And then your role changes and you're like, okay, I'm the peacekeeper between, because daughters and mothers go through some weird crap. And now I'm kind of Boutros, Boutros, golly here, you know, trying to keep some peace. And then there's just different ones where you're like, all right, I'm the evil cop.

Have you been in New York a long time? I've been here for 35 years. I've done some time in, you know, when I was on a show, I would be in LA for six months or six weeks. I did pilot season. Oh, yeah. Every year.

Right.

I know.

Take care.

Hey, it's Sarah Gonzalez. The economy has been in the news a lot lately. It's kind of always in the news. And Planet Money is always here to explain it. Each episode, we tell a sometimes quirky, sometimes surprising, always interesting story that helps you better understand the economy. So when you hear something about cryptocurrency or where exactly your taxes go, ya sabes.

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