Joshua Bates
Appearances
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And Garrison thought, all right, we nailed this.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
So we wanted to know, based on the definition he was working on, whether Josh's actions in the Capitol qualified as extremist activity. He was up in the crowd chanting. The police were pushing him back and he was refusing to move.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Garrison's goal was to give Secretary Austin a report with recommendations on countering extremism in the ranks. He knew from the beginning that anything related to extremism could get politicized real quick. And the trouble actually began before he even got to put out his report. Back when Garrison was hired to do this work, he was given a title.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Suddenly his name was all over Fox News, The Daily Caller, Steve Bannon's podcast.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah, well, the researcher Michael Jensen we talked to would disagree that they don't have a problem. And when we talked to Bishop Garrison, he was really disappointed that the department didn't really take his work as seriously as he wanted them to.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And the Marines outlined some new reporting instructions, how people can tell the military that something's going on. If a Marine suspects a fellow Marine of extremist activity, they have to report it within one to three days to a senior officer, and that might trigger an investigation.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Right. Well, to answer that question, I want to go back to Joshua Bates' story for a sec because it offers a big clue. Josh, of course, is the Marine sergeant whose case we followed and the one who wound up in the rotunda putting that MAGA hat on the statue of MLK.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
So the FBI eventually arrested Josh almost two years later, connecting him to some social media posts that one of his friends had made, one of the two guys that he was with in the Capitol. And in court, Josh gets off with a slap on the wrist, just a couple hundred hours of community service.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Right. And then, after his criminal sentencing, Josh faces a retention hearing in the Marine Corps. which is sort of like military HR. It's a panel of other Marines, randomly drawn, and they decide whether to keep him in the Corps or to discharge him. And if they kick him out, they then have to decide if the discharge will be honorable or other than honorable.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And that second one is a huge red mark. No one wants that on their record.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
But that's not the end for Josh, the Secretary of the Navy who also oversees the Marine Corps. has to either endorse the panel's decision to keep Josh, or he can decide to kick Josh out. But it's been more than a year since the retention hearing, and as far as we know, the secretary still hasn't made a decision. And a new secretary will take over when Trump enters office in a couple of weeks.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Trump's nominated John Phelan, a businessman with no military experience, for that job. And the decision about whether to keep Josh might just fall to him.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah, this was after we told his lawyer that we'd found footage of Josh in the Capitol, and it didn't match his story. So he was done chatting with us. Trump said throughout his campaign that he'd be open to pardoning people convicted of crimes for January 6th if they're quote-unquote innocent. In fact, many of the people convicted of January 6th-related crimes celebrated from the D.C.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
jail cell they call the Patriots' Wing. after the election results were announced. Now that Trump's been elected to a second term, it's possible that Josh's criminal sentence, as late as it already is, could be totally wiped away.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah. And if that's the case, it's really unclear how the military's efforts to root out extremism are going to fare. Like we mentioned earlier, in the years since January 6th, military officials came up with a strong definition of extremism and what actions are prohibited. And just this year, they said, we're going to start collecting data on such incidents. This might all go away under Trump.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Hegseth has made clear in his public statements that his focus will be on undoing some of the changes the military has made in recent years.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
But that probably won't be necessary because it was Trump's supporters who stormed the Capitol during the last certification when the election didn't go their way. This time, it did.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Right. Well, thank you for having us.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah. I was at the Capitol when that huge crowd that Trump sent over started to arrive and, you know, pressing in from all sides. It was thousands of people. I watched them eventually break through police barriers and rush up the Capitol steps and I asked one man in the crowd nearby, what do you want to see happen if you get in?
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And another thing that a couple hundred of them had in common was military ties, both veteran and active duty.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah, I saw a lot of that too. And you know, afterwards, after this day, Tom and I started following the FBI's arrest announcements to see if there really were as many military folks out there that we remember seeing. And our colleagues at NPR started tracking it too. An NPR analysis found that of the 1,500 arrested, some 200 had military experience.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
That is roughly 13%, about double what you would see with the general population.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah. So according to Jensen, at least 24 of them were active duty across the various branches and the reserves. And the branch with the biggest number of participants in relation to its size was the Marine Corps. The Marines.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And Jensen told us, historically, the Marines don't open very many investigations into these cases. So They have a disproportionately large problem with extremism, but they're doing the least amount of investigations.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yep. His name is Joshua Bates, Sergeant Joshua Bates.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And on January 6th, 2021, he is 20 years old when he says a couple of other active duty Marines at Quantico Base invite him to the Stop the Steal rally.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
No, not at all. So we combed through some security footage of Josh and his friends in the Capitol and They're in there for about an hour altogether, and they are definitely participating in some rowdy crowds. You can see them taking turns holding a Don't Tread on Me flag. Josh is chanting what looks like Stop the Steal.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
So it seems like this guy is trying to carve out this neat little box for himself as a peaceful protester. It felt like that's why he wanted to talk to us that day.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
The main issue for Josh here is that what he told us did not match what we saw on the cameras. And we were wondering, even if he didn't directly hit anyone or break something, did he still engage in extremist activity? After all, this whole day was an act of violence.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Yeah, let's play you an excerpt from our two-part podcast series, A Good Guy, about what happened next. It really helps color it all in. At Austin's confirmation hearing, he didn't mention the assault on the Capitol directly, but he said he was really concerned about internal threats.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
And one of the first things he did was to remind everyone in uniform about their oath.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
That's Bishop Garrison, a West Point grad, an Iraq Army vet, and a lawyer. Austin tapped him to answer this huge question for the military. How do you define extremism? I'd love to actually get your personal opinion or definition of extremism.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Garrison quickly became the guy that the defense secretary was counting on to figure out just how big of a problem extremism in the ranks really is. Garrison worked a really long time to come up with a definition. And as complicated as the work was, it ultimately led him to a pretty simple two-part test.
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
One, does the person advocate for extremist ideology?
Up First from NPR
Does the Military Have an Extremism Problem?
Two, did they act upon that ideology?