Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson

The real concern, I think, is that your argument seems to turn our justice system, in my view at least, into a catch-me-if-you-can kind of regime from the standpoint of the executive, where everybody has to have a lawyer and file a lawsuit in order for the government to stop violating people's rights.

Mr. Rice?

The law imposes an across-the-board rule that allows the use of drugs and surgeries for some medical purposes, but not for others. Its application turns entirely on medical purpose, not a patient's sex. That is not sex discrimination.

The Equal Protection Clause does not require the states to blind themselves to medical reality or to treat unlike things the same.

So it becomes a pure exercise of weighing benefits versus risk.

We do not agree that the medical condition is the same.

Now, looking at this statute, a girl comes in biologically and asks for a hormone to deepen her voice in order to affirm the identity that she chooses, which is masculinity.

She wants to, I'm sorry, one more time, Your Honor.

She wants to get the medication in order to deepen her voice and affirm her masculinity.

Your Honor, I think if it's for the purpose of identifying inconsistent with their sex, she would be barred from doing that under the... But isn't that the point, Mr. Rice, that if it's... And Justice Kagan jumps in as well.

If you're a boy and you go in to get puberty blockers, you can get the puberty blockers if you're going to use them for precocious puberty. You cannot get the puberty blockers if you're going to use them to transition. That is not a sex baseline. That is a purpose baseline.

So our fundamental point here is not that you can discriminate against both sexes in equal degree. Our fundamental point is there is no sex-based line here. And the only way they get to a sex-based line is by equating fundamentally different treatments that defy medical reality and defy by how the statute itself sets out what is a treatment.

I guess I think there might be some confusion a little bit. At least I'm confused because there's so many lines that this statute could draw the classification.

And the question for equal protection purposes is, if you are right that there is a sex baseline being drawn, then... to the extent the plaintiffs are implicated by that line, don't we have to apply heightened scrutiny in evaluating their claims?

I understand. Let me just let me just turn your attention to one other thing.

Your argument seems to turn our justice system, in my view at least, into a catch-me-if-you-can kind of regime from the standpoint of the executive, where everybody has to have a lawyer and file a lawsuit in order for the government to stop violating people's rights.

And I don't understand how that is remotely consistent with the rule of law.

Oh, I'm delighted to be here.

I am.

Well, you know, I got a call and someone said, we heard that this was your lifelong dream and it is.

To be a Broadway performer and a justice. I had both of those. Really? Yes. I wanted, I told the Harvard admissions people that I needed to go there because I wanted to be the first black female Supreme Court justice to appear on a Broadway stage.

It is an actual Broadway show. It is Anne Juliet. They have invited me to do a special walk-on role that I'm told they wrote for me. Wow. So I'm very excited.

See, it worked.

you know, I actually like it. What does it entail? Yeah, what do you have to do? Well, we changed some of the services that were available to the justices and the staff during my tenure, so I feel very proud of it.

Yeah, I know.

Well, we didn't have online ordering before. And in my former court, you had an app on your phone and you could send down for a sandwich and then go pick it up and not have to wait in the big public line. And when I got to the Supreme Court, I was like, this is outrageous. You have to stand in a line to get a sandwich?

I did. Right.

Yes. Right? Mo and I knew each other in college, which was fantastic.

A terrific production.

That is correct. That is correct.

It was fantastic.

You were great.

Well, we were in a class together, a drama class, and Matt Damon at that time, and Mo might know this, I don't know, but he was kind of well-known on campus and in the local community because he had already started doing community theater. Right. And so we took a drama class and the teacher paired us up for a scene. You and Matt Damon. Me and Matt Damon.

And it was kind of exciting because I thought, oh, this guy's going to go on and be a real actor.

And, you know, we did the scene, and it was some play that didn't have a whole lot of action, like waiting for Godot or something, where you're just sitting on the stage.

But at the end, the professor said, oh, Ketanji, you were so good. Matt, we'll talk. No. Yes. Yes. And I was like, oh my goodness! I was so excited. Oh my God, that is just terrible.

You ready to do this? I'm ready.

Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm going to eliminate C, I think.

Um... I'm going to say Fox in the Snowy Winter.

No, I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say Popcorn. Popcorn. You are.

All right. I'm going to say chilly.

Diana Ross at Marshalls? I'm going with the fanny pack.