Manon

I mean, when I started working here, Peggy just moved from Utrecht.

There was the case publication. The FG case study? Yeah, yeah.

That's the 2011 study.

Yeah, well, that was the first one that did some evaluation of really the medical intervention. The Dutch protocol. The Dutch protocol.

These kids were like, yeah, good, well-functioning, nice kids doing their thing.

And they were doing better psychologically.

But regarding their gender dysphoria, no improvements.

There was no affirming treatment, really.

In general, I think people were sort of convinced, yeah, this is so clear-cut if you look at this. Yeah.

She wrote that her study sample was small and came from one clinic.

But... It's scientifically really, really difficult to think about what sort of control group that would be.

Not only the medical approach, but it's the whole approach. So it's psychological assessment, but also psychological counseling, if necessary, addressing really psychiatric problems, family difficulties, family challenges.

And I like that, how we did that.

And yeah, other clinicians became interested.

And they sit in with our team meetings.

Yeah, and they thought they could learn from us how we did that.

Yeah, I don't want to pinpoint to colleagues that they are sort of the source of the things that are the criticism that's happening now. It's only quite recently that I've really been convinced that, yeah, maybe especially in the United States... There is approaches that are different from the approach that we are doing here.

So these were the very first children that were treated here. They called themselves gender kids. I have gender because the whole word gender identity disorder was too complicated. So they just said, I have gender.

So, for example, Manon.

Manon is the one who wants to talk.

This is Manon. Yeah, and she is now 30, I think.

That assessment was several sessions over a longer period of time and actually really get to know the family, get to know the kids.

So it takes at least half a year. But what we say, we take the time we need. So you cannot pinpoint me on how much time we have.

Well, yeah, of course we needed proof of the effectiveness of the treatment.