Mark Manson

It sounds like you had a... I mean, obviously, you were an athlete. You had a lot of confidence in the sports domain, right? So it's like even if a coach... I imagine there were plenty of coaches that chewed you out and told you you screwed up. But you knew you're like, I'm good at this. I'm a good athlete and I'm going to get better.

Whereas if you've never had that evidence accumulate in your personal life, that you're a good person, that people love you, that people want to be friends with you, then yeah, that feedback is scary.

It's funny. Early in my career... So I struggled a lot with social anxiety when I was younger. And it's funny because... for the people who've read my writing for a long time, like it's pretty incendiary, a little controversial, you know, like it definitely pokes at people's buttons to get pretty angry response sometimes. And early in my career, I kind of relish that.

That's kind of how I made a name for myself is I would, I would like, I would poke people's buttons and kill sacred cows and say controversial things and try to get a lot of attention that way. And it's funny because I've spoken to so many writers and aspiring writers who are terrified of publishing something and making people upset. And it never bothered me. Why didn't it bother you?

If you add everything together, it's like 330, 340 weeks.

I don't know. I was just like, I'm right, whatever.

So this is the whole point. I would write an article that I knew very well. I'm like, this is going to piss off thousands of people. I'm going to wake up tomorrow. I'm going to have 200 angry emails in my inbox. But it's fine because I think it's worth writing it. And I would do it. And then I would go to a party that night. And I'd be nervous to talk to the girl next to me.

Because I'm like, well, what if she doesn't like me? Really? Yeah.

What do you think that... I... The only thing I can come back to is it's like that evidence thing, right? Like, I... In my writing, I'm very aware that my writing is a better portrayal of me and my ideas than I guess my physical form is.

But also, it's like I had accumulated a lot of evidence over many, many years that when I really put thought into something, whether it's blogging or posting on forums or posting on social media, when I put a lot of thought into something, it really lands for a lot of people. And I'm really good at this. Mm-hmm.

Whereas in my personal life, like you, I grew up, didn't have a ton of friends, got rejected by all the girls in high school, was kind of bullied a little bit. So there was still that scar tissue there that was hard to work through.

Yeah. So that's another skill, right? It's like knowing when to take feedback and when to ignore it. Because sometimes people don't get what you're about. Sometimes people don't understand what you're doing. Sometimes people project what they would do and try to get you to do what they would do, right? So it's, there's a certain amount of,

wisdom and consideration that I think is required to notice those moments of like, okay, I know this person has my best interests at heart, but they also don't really get what I'm trying to do. They're doing what they would try to do. They're telling me to do what they would try to do. So it's tricky. I have this... I had an Instagram post that went viral.

It said, if you wouldn't ask them for advice, then why the f*** do you care about their criticism? Yeah. That's good. I think what people... The mistake that a lot of people make is that they... They don't think about where the feedback or the advice is coming from. So true. So they're like, oh, this person doesn't like what I'm doing. They say I should be doing this better.

And it's like, well, yeah, but do you respect where this person's coming from?

They don't. You know what's funny? This is actually, I'm glad you brought this up because the two most prominent negative reviews I've ever gotten, I actually feel kind of good about. Are they from writers?

So the first one is, I think if you go to the Amazon page of Subtle Art and Not Giving a Fuck, the top negative review, I think it describes me as the guy in the bar who thinks he's smarter than he is. And who's lecturing you and thinks he's smarter than he is. And I was like... Yeah, that is kind of my vibe. I kind of am that guy. I've been to a lot of bars and I've been that guy quite a bit.

And then the other one was my second book when it came out, The Sunday Times in London. It was like an 80-year-old guy reviewed it, which I don't know why they asked him to do it. He said... He said, the problem with Manson is that he's like the local drunk who spent too much time in the philosophy section. Oh my gosh, that's so funny, dude.

Anyways. But I mean, well, my point there is that They're criticizing me for the thing that I think other people love me for. Yes, exactly. Which is like, I'm like a friend in the bar who's giving you advice, right? That's totally why my fans like me. And so when I see that criticism, I'm like, I'm on the right track. I'm not right for you.

I've moved in the second.

40.

I, so the area of my life that I think I'm not killing it right now, and this is honestly, this is, this has been a struggle for a long time. It is, uh,

reaching out to people staying connected to people it's kind of social life it's like non-romantic relationships right it's reaching out to friends checking in with people following up with people being like you know hey we sorry we missed each other last weekend we should hang out next weekend like i'm really bad about that i'm very passive and reactive and it's

It's a bad habit that I've fallen into throughout my life. And it's funny because at the beginning of this year, my wife and I, we set intentions for the year. And one of my intentions was to be better about this. I think I got a little bit better, but I'm still bad at it.

I'm terrible at it. And it's something that I've had to be very conscious about. And it's like, it's silly because it's the superficial stuff. Like when I'm in person, and you can attest to this, like when we're in front of each other, It's great. I can talk all day. We can hang out. Everything's good.

But it's for some reason that connection, that texting, the calling, the responding, the emails, the scheduling stuff. I'm always really bad about that. And it seems silly because it's the superficial side of it. But I don't know. Part of it is just... you know, being busy, quote unquote, like we all are.

But part of it, too, like sometimes I wonder if it's if it isn't a little bit of residue from like that social anxiety I was talking about. Sure. You know, if like I'm like, weekend's coming up. I want to do something with somebody, but I don't know who.

I don't know what to invite them to. What if it's something lame? What if they don't want to come? They can say no. There's probably some really subtle residual stuff like that down there. Or maybe I just never developed the skill. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That's another skill.

I need to say no. So a lot of people struggle with this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what is like the first step?

Anyways. That's another, that's actually a great self-awareness point is that we all default to assuming that people do what we do or think the way that we think, right? That it's, and it's crazy because people are completely different. And it's interesting too because the say no thing It's funny because I probably have a very similar reaction that you have hearing my problem.

Because when I'm hearing you talk, I'm like... It's so easy. Yeah. I'm like, well, yeah, you just say no to everybody. And then the people who are really your friends will stick around. And I'm like... And I'm like, it's solved, right? The problem's solved. But you probably hear my problem. You're like, yeah, just text everybody. And the people who want to see you will text back.

Yeah. Did you have any fallout? Did you have any, like, people get... Yeah.

But then you get to the other side. And I just feel like at peace.

It's like... Pissing off 90% of people and being friends with the other 10.

Well, this is the weird thing about... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I'd say the first one, first and foremost, is self-awareness. ultimately, if you're not aware of a problem in your life or a tendency in your life, you can't do anything about it. Right. And self-awareness is it's, it's people talk about it all the time. It's a very tricky thing. It's very slippery thing.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Sometimes the more you try to grasp it, the more it slips out of your grasp because we're very good at tricking and deluding ourselves. You know, it's everybody kind of thinks like, well, I know what's going on in my life. Like I, I know why I did that. I know why I'm thinking this way. And it's

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's actually the process of developing self-awareness is in some ways it should be an uncomfortable process. It should involve questioning your own assumptions, questioning your motivations. Like if you say you just had an argument with your partner, obviously you think you're right. Obviously you think you know what you're doing. But being able to step back and say, but what if I don't?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So coming back to the self-awareness piece, like that's incredibly powerful when you realize like, Hey, the water I've been swimming in since I was a child is not normal water. Like this is, this is rocky waters. Yeah. This is, this is all splashing around and messed up. Like I'm not seeing, seeing clearly.

What if I'm actually wrong? What if they're actually right? What would that mean? What would that suggest about me? What would that suggest about my view of the world? And actually being able to sit with that for a certain amount of time, like that is a skill. That is something that you practice and develop over a long period of time. And like most skills, it's when you're bad at it, it's not fun.

So that, that was very, uh, very powerful for me. And, um, the second thing I remember, this was before I started my career or anything. I remember, uh, kind of once I got towards the end of the therapy and he and I started talking about ending it, he actually told me, he was like, you know, you'd be pretty good at this. I was like, really? He's like, yeah.

If you're still thinking about careers, you should consider psychology. I was like, yeah, we'll see.

You know, it's not so much that something should be ignored, but I do think there are a number of things that like tend to get overrated or maybe overrated at the moment. Like I think there are certain things that get a lot of traction on social media and so they just get spread everywhere and then people start kind of exaggerating what they are. Like I'll give you one example. is narcissism.

I knew you were going to say that.

It's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere. I see it on a million accounts. I see like whenever I post anything about it it gets shared a million times and And I've been running into it, you know, in conversations with people and fans, like people start like, well, you know, I've had all these narcissists in my life and I had to cut them out. I'm like, whoa, OK, hold on time out. And.

So most people avoid it.

Like narcissism is a thing, obviously. It's a very bad thing. It's a very difficult thing to deal with. But it's not necessarily around every corner. And the problem with narcissism is that you need to have extended exposure to a person to properly diagnose it.

You can't just be with somebody for a month or a few months or have them do one thing mean to you or be selfish in one way and be like, oh, well, they're a narcissist and I shouldn't have to ever deal with them again.

And I think people are using it as an excuse to exit difficult situations and difficult relationships that in reality could probably be improved with a certain amount of patience and work. So I worry about that. There's a lot of statistics around... parents or kids cutting off their parents.

And I think a lot of it is, you know, the narcissistic parents is kind of becoming the just or toxic parents is the justification for it. And it really makes me uncomfortable because you can have really terrible parents, but you can manage that relationship and manage your exposure to them in a way that you don't have to eliminate them from your life permanently. Yeah, you can create a boundary.

Exactly. And I feel like people are just using narcissism as an excuse to not do the hard work of boundaries. Yeah.

Well, I've got a whole rant about manifestation, which... My audience loves manifestation. I know they do.

Mark's coming in on the manifestation. Let's hear it. It's not that it's wrong. Like it's, it is a thing, right? It's just, I don't like the explanation for it, which is, you know, it. What's the explanation you hear that you don't like?

The explanation I hear is very woo-woo and like, and also there's a little bit, speaking of narcissism, there's a little bit of kind of spiritual narcissism in it of like, of like, oh, if you really wish for something and you really focus on it, the universe is going to conspire to give it to you because, you know, there's energy in the world and it's all going to like coalesce. Like,

I'm like, come on, really? Look, as somebody, there are very well understood, well documented cognitive biases in psychology. Our minds are not 100% accurate. We perceive things inaccurately. One way to think about it is that there's a lot of information in the world, and our minds are not fully capable of processing all the information at all given times. And so our mind uses shortcuts to...

narrow in and focus on what matters. Your mind can't process everything that it's perceiving, right? So your mind takes shortcuts. And one of those shortcuts is something known as confirmation bias. And it's, confirmation bias is super simple, which is basically whatever you are thinking about, your perception will look for in your environment, right? So everybody's- Kind of like a placebo or no?

I mean, everybody's experienced this many times. So for example, let's say you're thinking about buying a new car. You probably go years without paying much attention to what other cars are on the highway. But as soon as you think to yourself, I'm going to buy a new car. I think I'm going to switch models. Suddenly, every day you're driving to work and you notice every single car around you.

You're like, huh, I wonder what that one is. I wonder if that's expensive. That one looks nice. Maybe I'll get that. And like suddenly the because you've prioritized cars in your mind, you start noticing them in your environment in a way that you never noticed before. And this has a very noticeable effect.

So like if if I tell you that the color orange is going to be very important in your life over the next week. You start seeing it everywhere. You probably see the color orange a million times a day, but you never care and you never think about it. But if I tell you that and you believe it, you'll start noticing orange in all these little things that you do all the time.

So you can leverage cognitive bias in your favor, which is by focusing and thinking about your goals. It's like if I want to achieve something really important, If I focus and think about that day after day after day, I will start noticing opportunities or things that could help me achieve that in my environment, going about my day-to-day life.

Now, those opportunities and things were always there. I just wasn't paying attention to them. Because I've been thinking about it regularly, now I notice them, right? So it's manifestation. There's nothing manifesting. It was already there. It was there the whole time. You just didn't prioritize it. So you never noticed. And so it's, this is what I mean when it's like, it's not wrong.

It's just described poorly. Right. And I'm like, And I'm a science nerd, so I'm like, well, why can't we just call it leveraging cognitive bias? Well, that's not very catchy, and it doesn't sell a lot of books.

Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me, the biggest thing for me is I historically was very avoidant in my relationships. I was the guy who would... find exit plans to every intimate relationship. When it's uncomfortable. Exactly. And well, every time things got too intimate, I would kind of freak out and like find an excuse to slip out or sabotage things.

Absolutely.

can call it whatever you want right it's just it's the explanation that drives me crazy you know it's like yeah it's when i hear the the flighty woo woo oh the universe is your energy is aligned with this and that i'm like i'm yeah i'm like whatever man yeah it works okay great you know you call it confirmation bias it's comfort it is like in psychology we've known it for 50 years that's a confirmation bias it's a thing you can totally leverage it in your favor i love it

And the explanation does matter because... Bad explanations, people can start making poor assumptions based on bad explanations. Let's say you set an intention for a certain goal and it doesn't work out. It ends up being harder than you expected or maybe you achieve it and it doesn't make you happy.

Well, now you've got this cosmological conundrum of like, well, maybe the universe doesn't want me to be happy. No. No, it's just you thought you wanted a thing and you got it and now you actually realize it doesn't make you happy. Very human experience. Completely normal. Wow. That's good. I just have a natural allergy to the...

The cosmological woo-woo explanations because I think it can get people into trouble down the road.

I don't know. It's... I don't know. Maybe you're in the same spot. But, like, it's actually... I was talking to a friend about this just a couple days ago. How early in my career, you know, I was messed up. I was still working through a lot of shit, right? And so... there was a certain like energy and fire to my work because it was also my therapy.

Like, you know, it's like I, like my relationships are falling apart and I've got all this self-doubt and insecurity in these areas of my life. And it just, it like fueled a very passionate output. And I really do feel like I've reached a point in my life where Most areas of my life I'm pretty satisfied with.

Like there's obviously always things I could do better and there's some areas that I think I could get better at. But ultimately, all in all, I'm like, I'm in a really good place and I feel like I've figured out a lot of my crap. And it's interesting being in this industry now because it's like some of that fire's gone or that edge has been taken off, you know?

I'm peaceful. Like, I'm good, man. I don't need to get angry about stuff. Interesting.

Yeah. And also it's... You're just enjoying it all now?

And when I was younger, I basically torpedoed a bunch of good relationships for no good reason.

Is, is not like being, just being, being, you know, like not feeling like I need to go conquer more stuff. And, uh, And I feel like I really, especially in the last year or two, like I really feel like I'm kind of arriving at that place where it's like I've got a bunch of business goals, but it's just fun. Like I'm just doing it because it's awesome and fun.

And I have goals in my personal life and my health and my relationships. But it's really just because it's just good. It's just fun. It's like good for me. It's good for the people around me. There's nothing. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not trying to like win anything or anything. It's just it's a great place to be and I just really hope I can stay here.

I don't get like sucked You know captivated by some chasing chasing some rat race somewhere, you know so I think that's really interesting you say that because There's a lot of people Most people don't have that skill.

And at the time when I was doing it, I thought, Like everybody, I thought I was justified and rational and being reasonable and everything. But as the years went on, I realized when I look back, I was like, yeah, that was kind of selfish. That was a little bit unjustified. That was a little bit irrational. I was definitely being triggered. Some baggage was being triggered.

I don't know. Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like a lot of older folks reach this place kind of naturally, you know? And it's... I don't know, what you just described... that feeling of enough. To me, that feels like the best definition of success that you could possibly have is having enough. So I don't know if I'm quite there, but this is definitely the closest I've ever been in my life.

And I, and I'm definitely in a place too, where, uh, I'm not wanting for anything. I'm not, you know, I've got a great relationship. I've got friends, I've got hobbies. My health's good. My business is great. You know, so as long as nothing deteriorates.

100%.

Check out Mark Manson on YouTube. I'm on all the social accounts. I'm on everything. Check out my podcast. I'm everywhere. You can't escape me, man.

And so when I met my wife... I kind of went into it with more self-awareness around this. I was like, okay, clearly I'm an avoidant attachment type. I clearly get triggered around intimacy and have irrational reactions and want to escape and want to run away. And I made a deal with myself is I said, look, you can always break up with her. That's always on the table. You're never trapped.

Instagram. Check me out on Instagram.

It's unrealistic to expect that you're going to connect or see eye to eye with every single person that you ever meet. You actually don't want everybody to be your friend because then you don't really stand for anything, right? Ooh, that's interesting.

But you're only allowed to break up with her for a good reason. It can never be over something stupid. It can never be over like a dumb fight you started over who loaded the dishwasher wrong. It's always gotta be a real reason, like a values difference or a communication problem or a breach of trust or something. It can never be over something really dumb because that's what I had done

consistently throughout my previous relationships.

Totally. Which I think people don't realize like, I mean, avoidance in particular, it's a very irrational reaction and it happens when you're not aware of it, it happens unconsciously. It's almost like a knee jerk type thing. You get too close to somebody. It gets a little bit too intimate. You feel vulnerable. That freaks you out.

And so your mind starts tricking you and it starts convincing you things that aren't true, right? It's like, oh, she's probably lying to you. Or, you know, oh, she never actually liked you that much. She's just doing this because she wants something from you. You know, it starts feeding all these stories and narratives in your brain that are completely made up.

And they're completely based in your trauma response. But if you're not aware of that pattern within yourself, you assume it's true. And you assume it's right. And then you start a dumb fight over something completely inconsequential.

It's a really good question. I think one of the biggest things is simply, I don't know if the right word is acceptance or non-judgment, but it's I guess the best way I'd describe it is not feeling compelled to change the other person.

A little bit. A little bit. Yeah, for sure. And she probably tried to change me a little bit. Really? I just feel like when I look at the trends, at this point, my wife and I, we've been together, it will be 13 years next month that we've been together. And when I look at the different kind of trajectories in the relationship over that time,

Definitely one of the biggest ones is it feels like every year that goes by, the more we just kind of live and let live. Like we just, you love who's in front of you. You don't love who they might be, who they could be, who you wish they could be. You love who's in front of you, right? And that's, ultimately that's the choice you have to make.

And if you choose not to, if you choose to love some imagined version of your partner, some potential version of your partner, I just think you're setting yourself up for a lot of pain

You basically become a slave to your unconscious, right? You've got all these patterns. Harville Hendricks calls them love maps. But you have all these patterns that were imprinted on you as a child. And if you're like most people, like everybody, you know, your parents weren't perfect. So your parents had baggage and issues and they kind of imprinted some of that baggage and issues on you.

And so if you never develop any awareness around yourself, you're essentially a slave to that baggage. Like you're always just gonna assume that any impulse or emotion that arises is true without questioning it, without wondering if you're being irrational or not. Maybe you're being unfair. Maybe you're being selfish. You know, these are all human things. We all do them. And

There's a lot of statistics around kids cutting off their parents, and it really makes me uncomfortable because you can have really terrible parents, but you can manage that relationship and manage your exposure to them in a way that you don't have to eliminate them from your life permanently. You create a boundary. Exactly.

So I think there are some thought exercises you could go through. And you could do this in a journal. You could do this with a therapist. You could do it with a friend. I think the first one is take your relationship situation and imagine it's two other people.

and switch around who the people are, switch around the genders, switch around the age, the, you know, who the people are and see if the dynamics, see if it still feels true to you. Ask yourself if this, if my best friend was in this If my best friend's partner was doing the thing to them that I'm doing to my partner, how would I feel about it? And I think that can be very illuminating.

Ask people close to you. Yeah. Feedback. Feedback. And this is the tricky thing is that a lot of people don't have people around themselves that will give them honest feedback.

Well, and that just made me think of a good point, too, is that generally people who are in bad relationships, bad romantic relationships, probably also have bad relationships with friends, with family. They're just bad at relationships in general, right? So finding somebody who... is capable of giving you honest, critical feedback. Saying like, hey man, I think you're in the wrong on this one.

Like, I think, I think she's got a point. You know, you want to find somebody in your life who is capable of saying that to you and then ask them for their honest opinion. And, You know, it's like a doctor, right? Like, you want to get multiple... If it's a serious issue, you want to go get multiple opinions. Yes.

I've got a whole rant about manifestation, which... My audience loves manifestation, so it's going to trigger everyone.

Very hard. Right? Like, it's... You feel... It's hard not to take it personally. It's hard to... And I think it's because sometimes people, there are people in the world who their feedback is critical and judgmental, right? It's like they're not trying to help you. They're trying to cut you down. Hurt you, yeah. Yeah.

And it's so finding people who can give you free feedback, but they're giving it for your own benefit is really good. You also bring up something that's super interesting about all of this, which is

these emotional skills they're very domain specific like i i meet people all the time who are emotional geniuses in their professional work life and then they go home and in front of their kids they just melt down right and like can't handle anything right and then there are other people who are the complete opposite like they're just amazing family members and friends and then they go to work and they just get walked over by everybody

I write self-help for people who hate self-help. My book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, it sold a million copies, I think, within six or eight months. I never planned for anything after this in my life, and I'm only 32 years old, so what the hell am I supposed to do next?

You assume that the way people socialize is the same everywhere in the world, that the way people show respect is the same way everywhere in the world, that the way people show interest or affection is the same everywhere in the world. And it's not at all. It's completely different. everywhere you go.

You assume that the way people socialize is the same everywhere in the world, that the way people show respect is the same way everywhere in the world, that the way people show interest or affection is the same everywhere in the world. And it's not at all. It's completely different everywhere you go. And being thrown into these environments where

And being thrown into these environments where the social norms and values change constantly, I think it taught me that it's the values that actually drive everything, which is essentially what subtle art of not giving a fuck is about. Ultimately, it's you have to choose what you make important in your life, and then everything else flows from that.

the social norms and values change constantly, I think it taught me that it's the values that actually drive everything, which is essentially what subtle art of not giving a fuck is about. Ultimately, it's you have to choose what you make important in your life, and then everything else flows from that.

And if you choose the wrong thing, it doesn't matter how hard you work, how smart you are, how well you network, what school you went to, you're going to end up in the wrong place. And if you choose the right things to care about, you can actually stumble through hungover and end up in the right spot, right? So that initial directional choice is so, so massively important.

And if you choose the wrong thing, it doesn't matter how hard you work, how smart you are, how well you network. what school you went to, you're going to end up in the wrong place. And if you choose the right things to care about, you can actually stumble through hungover and end up in the right spot, right? So that initial directional choice is so, so massively important.

There's a chapter in my book called Happiness is Overrated. I still stand by that statement. The irony with happiness is that the more you think about and worry about happiness, the more you remove it from yourself. It's almost like happiness happens when you're not worried about being happy.

There's a chapter in my book called Happiness is Overrated. I still stand by that statement. The irony with happiness is that the more you think about and worry about happiness, the more you remove it from yourself. It's almost like happiness happens when you're not worried about being happy.

Ultimately, like every emotion, happiness, it's a psychological feedback mechanism that we evolved to help us survive and procreate, right? So when you're happy, it generally means that you've succeeded in some way in achieving your basic wants and needs. And when you're not happy, it's because you're lacking some of your basic wants and needs.

Ultimately, like every emotion, happiness, it's a psychological feedback mechanism that we evolved to help us survive and procreate, right? So when you're happy, it generally means that you've succeeded in some way in achieving your basic wants and needs. And when you're not happy, it's because you're lacking some of your basic wants and needs.

Happiness is overrated. The more you think about and worry about happiness, the more you remove it from yourself. People get causation backwards. So the assumption is like, well, if I just find what I love, then I'll get really good at that thing. It's actually the other way around. People tend to fall in love with the thing they're really good at.

I think when people try to elevate happiness and put it on a pedestal and try to make themselves be happy all the time, you're like missing the point. Happiness is not the cause of a good life. It's the side effect of living a good life. And living a good life requires you to sometimes struggle and become frustrated and deal with problems that you don't necessarily want to deal with at the moment.

I think when people try to elevate happiness and put it on a pedestal and try to make themselves be happy all the time, you're like missing the point. Happiness is not the cause of a good life. It's the side effect of living a good life. And living a good life requires you to sometimes struggle and become frustrated and deal with problems that you don't necessarily want to deal with at the moment.

That's all part of it.

That's all part of it.

I think the problem with purpose is that people go about it the wrong way. They approach purpose as if it's hiding under a rock somewhere. People are like, oh, I got to find my purpose and then sign up for a yoga class thinking that purpose is magically going to appear in the yoga class. And Purpose is not found, it's created through action that feels useful.

Happiness is overrated. The more you think about and worry about happiness, the more you remove it from yourself. People get causation backwards. So the assumption is like, well, if I just find what I love, then I'll get really good at that thing. It's actually the other way around. People tend to fall in love with the thing they're really good at.

I think the problem with purpose is that people go about it the wrong way. They approach purpose as if it's hiding under a rock somewhere. People are like, oh, I got to find my purpose and then sign up for a yoga class thinking that purpose is magically going to appear in the yoga class. And Purpose is not found, it's created through action that feels useful.

And you can have useful action doing the most mundane stuff. You can have useful action doing the same stuff that you've done for 20 years. A lot of it is just simply how you choose to think about it and the value you choose to perceive in it. So I think purpose is something that's fostered and created through finding useful and meaningful reasons and motivations behind the things that you do.

And you can have useful action doing the most mundane stuff. You can have useful action doing the same stuff that you've done for 20 years. A lot of it is just simply how you choose to think about it and the value you choose to perceive in it. So I think purpose is something that's fostered and created through finding useful and meaningful reasons and motivations behind the things that you do.

And you don't necessarily have to like go explore the world to find your purpose. Sometimes it's actually right in front of you and you've just been neglecting it.

And you don't necessarily have to like go explore the world to find your purpose. Sometimes it's actually right in front of you and you've just been neglecting it.

The only real dating advice is self-improvement. Marriage is supposed to limit your freedom, right? But I found that it was completely liberating because that's the magic sign. That's the sign of like, this has legs. This is going to last for a long time.

The only real dating advice is self-improvement. Marriage is supposed to limit your freedom, right? But I found that it was completely liberating because that's the magic sign. That's the sign of like, this has legs. This is going to last for a long time.

It's funny because I think I got the purpose question correct before Subtle Art, and I think that's part of why Subtle Art was so successful. So the mission that I decided on around that time in my career was that the self-help industry sucked. and I wanted to make it better, make it more realistic, make it more practical, and make it more appealing for more people.

It's funny because I think I got the purpose question correct before Subtle Art, and I think that's part of why Subtle Art was so successful. So the mission that I decided on around that time in my career was that the self-help industry sucked. and I wanted to make it better, make it more realistic, make it more practical, and make it more appealing for more people.

And I do think I widely succeeded at that over the 2010s. Looking at myself personally, I think I actually lost track of that because when you experience a meteoric rise like I did, people are accustomed to things compounding gradually, right? This year, you want your business to be 10% better than last year. Next year, you want it to be 10% better than it was this year.

And I do think I widely succeeded at that over the 2010s. Looking at myself personally, I think I actually lost track of that because when you experience a meteoric rise like I did, people are accustomed to things compounding gradually, right? This year, you want your business to be 10% better than last year. Next year, you want it to be 10% better than it was this year.

And our expectation is that things just incrementally get better like that. Well, whenever something comes along and there's a thousand percent improvement in like six months, it breaks your brain. You don't really know how to conceptualize that and what you should be doing.

And our expectation is that things just incrementally get better like that. Well, whenever something comes along and there's a thousand percent improvement in like six months, it breaks your brain. You don't really know how to conceptualize that and what you should be doing. And so suddenly I found myself with all these opportunities and invitations and

And so suddenly I found myself with all these opportunities and invitations coming in that were so surreal and not in my reality six months prior. And my default was just to say yes to everything. You know, this might be my 15 minutes. Cool, let's go have dinner with a congressman. Why not, right? When is this ever going to happen again? So my de facto response was just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

coming in that were so surreal and not in my reality six months prior. And my default was just to say yes to everything. You know, this might be my 15 minutes. Cool. Let's go have dinner with a congressman. Why not, right? When is this ever going to happen again? So my de facto response was just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That's cool in that it gave me a lot of great experiences and cool opportunities, and it also made a lot of money. But as anybody who's said yes to too many things knows, the consequence of that is that A, you get spread too thin, so you start doing a lot of things and none of them very well. You get burnt out because you're just overdoing it. You're overexerting yourself.

That's cool in that it gave me a lot of great experiences and cool opportunities, and it also made a lot of money. But as people Anybody who's said yes to too many things knows the consequence of that is that A, you get spread too thin. So you start doing a lot of things and none of them very well. You get burnt out because you're just overdoing it. You're overexerting yourself.

And then third, you lose track of what matters to you, right? If the default is yes to everything, then you're not really prioritizing anything over anything else. So after about four or five years, I started to feel the repercussions of all of that. I felt extremely burnt out. I became very unhealthy. I was no longer excellent at anything. I was good or above average at a lot of things.

And then third, you lose track of what matters to you, right? If the default is yes to everything, then you're not really prioritizing anything over anything else. So after about four or five years, I started to feel the repercussions of all of that. I felt extremely burnt out. I became very unhealthy. I was no longer excellent at anything. I was good or above average at a lot of things.

And I lost track of what drove me, what motivated me. So my 30s, I think, was... very much getting a lot of clarity on what I stand for, what I want to do with my life. Because when you're young, when you're in your 20s, you think about missions and purpose and all these goals and dreams you have, right? And it's all very exciting and it's all in the future, right? I've got plenty of time.

And I lost track of what drove me, what motivated me. So my 30s, I think, was... very much getting a lot of clarity on what I stand for, what I want to do with my life. Because when you're young, when you're in your 20s, you think about missions and purpose and all these goals and dreams you have, right? And it's all very exciting and it's all in the future, right? I've got plenty of time.

I'm going to work my ass off for years and decades and all this stuff. I think once you get to your mid or late 30s, you start realizing that how long and how difficult it is to accomplish one dream or goal. And you realize you really don't have enough bandwidth to do more than one or two more of those in your whole life. Suddenly your mortality becomes a lot more real.

I'm going to work my ass off for years and decades and all this stuff. I think once you get to your mid or late 30s, you start realizing that how long and how difficult it is to accomplish one dream or goal. And you realize you really don't have enough bandwidth to do more than one or two more of those in your whole life. Suddenly your mortality becomes a lot more real.

I really just need to pick the one hill I'm willing to die on because life is short. And that's all I'm going to have the energy and the mental power for. So my 30s was very much just getting a lot of clarity and focus. It's like, okay, I accomplished all these things. What do I want to use this stuff for? What is the point of all of this? What's the point of selling 20 million books?

I really just need to pick the one hill I'm willing to die on because life is short. And that's all I'm going to have the energy and the mental power for. So my 30s was very much just getting a lot of clarity and focus. It's like, okay, I accomplished all these things. What do I want to use this stuff for? What is the point of all of this? What's the point of selling 20 million books?

What's the point of having millions of readers? What are we driving towards over the next 20 years? Because after that, I'm probably done. I'm on a beach somewhere playing pickleball.

What's the point of having millions of readers? What are we driving towards over the next 20 years? Because after that, I'm probably done. I'm on a beach somewhere playing pickleball.

It's funny, when you look at the psychological research on passion and enjoying your job, what they find is that people get causation backwards. So the assumption is like, well, if I just find what I love, then I'll get really good at that thing. But it's actually the other way around. People tend to fall in love with the thing they're really good at or the thing they're really rewarded for.

It's funny, when you look at the psychological research, on passion and enjoying your job, what they find is that people get causation backwards. The assumption is like, well, if I just find what I love, then I'll get really good at that thing. It's actually the other way around. People tend to fall in love with the thing they're really good at or the thing they're really rewarded for.

So it's actually what you should be looking for is what do you have a talent for? What do you have a knack at? What do you find that people actually compliment you on or note that you're really good at? And then if you start focusing there, you'll start to fall in love with it. In a lot of ways, humans are just very, we're very narcissistic. We want to be great at something, right?

So it's actually what you should be looking for is what do you have a talent for? What do you have a knack at? What do you find that people actually compliment you on or note that you're really good at? And then if you start focusing there, you'll start to fall in love with it. In a lot of ways, humans are just very, we're very narcissistic. We want to be great at something, right?

And so when we do find something we're good at, our psychology is kind of wired to start making us feel emotionally satisfied.

And so when we do find something we're good at, our psychology is kind of wired to start making us feel emotionally satisfied.

Yes, I think by definition, growth requires breaking or losing some aspect of your former self. And by definition, breaking or losing an aspect of yourself is painful and uncomfortable. And in many cases, there's actually a component of grief to it, right? I quit drinking a couple of years ago. And while I don't want to drink anymore, I don't want to drink again.

Yes, I think by definition, growth requires breaking or losing some aspect of your former self. And by definition, breaking or losing an aspect of yourself is painful and uncomfortable. And in many cases, there's actually a component of grief to it, right? I quit drinking a couple of years ago. And while I don't want to drink anymore, I don't want to drink again.

Sometimes I look back at my former lifestyle and I miss it. I get nostalgic. I'm like, oh man, remember, like, God, those parties were so much fun. And there's like a little bit of sadness that comes along with it. But that's also one of the most profound transformational growths that's happened to me in the last couple of years, right?

Sometimes I look back at my former lifestyle and I miss it. I get nostalgic. I'm like, oh man, remember, like, God, those parties were so much fun. And there's like a little bit of sadness that comes along with it. But that's also one of the most profound transformational growths that's happened to me in the last couple of years, right?

So generally speaking, most growth comes from some aspect of loss. Not all the time, but most of the time.

So generally speaking, most growth comes from some aspect of loss. Not all the time, but most of the time.

Yes, because the way our mind works is that however you choose to define yourself, you are going to start defending that definition. So if you define yourself differently poorly or superficially, you're gonna end up spending a lot of energy and effort defending a really poor or superficial definition of who you are.

Yes, because the way our mind works is that however you choose to define yourself, you are going to start defending that definition. So if you define yourself poorly or superficially, you're going to end up spending a lot of energy and effort defending a really poor or superficial definition of who you are.

Generally speaking, I think it's useful to think of yourself in the broadest and most ambiguous terms. I'll give you an example. I think I suffered quite a bit because I adopted the identity of I am a best-selling author. That became what I was known for that became what I had been most successful at.

Generally speaking, I think it's useful to think of yourself in the broadest and most ambiguous terms. I'll give you an example. I think I suffered quite a bit because I adopted the identity of I am a best-selling author. That became what I was known for. That became what I had been most successful at.

And this happens to all of us, is that when we become successful at something or when people start recognizing us for something, we just assume that that's who we are. And I spent many years feeling a lot of pressure and a lot of anxiety. And anytime I went to write a book or write something, it put a lot of pressure on myself. Well, I'm supposed to be this big best-selling author guy.

And this happens to all of us is that when we become successful at something or when people start recognizing us for something, we just assume that that's who we are. And I spent many years feeling a lot of pressure and a lot of anxiety, and any time I went to write a book or write something, it put a lot of pressure on myself. Well, I'm supposed to be this big, best-selling author guy.

This is supposed to be what I'm amazing at. And it took something that used to be fun and felt kind of low stakes, and it turned it into something that felt very high stakes and very anxiety-ridden. And then... Something happened a few years ago, which is I took some time off. And then I kind of realized, I'm like, wait a second. Before all this author stuff, I was an entrepreneur.

This is supposed to be what I'm amazing at. And it took something that used to be fun and felt kind of low stakes And it turned it into something that felt very high stakes and very anxiety ridden.

And then something happened a few years ago, which is I took some time off and then I kind of realized I'm like, wait a second, before all this author stuff, I was an entrepreneur and I built an online business and that was a ton of fun. And I actually missed that a lot.

And I built an online business. And that was a ton of fun. And I actually missed that a lot. And I was like, you know, just because being an author was the thing I was most successful at doesn't mean I have to be an author. I can be an entrepreneur who happens to write books. And they happened to sell really well.

And I was like, you know, just because being an author was the thing I was most successful at doesn't mean I have to be an author. I can be an entrepreneur who happens to write books and they happen to sell really well. And that simple shift in my head, it just gave me so much internal freedom, unstifled me in so many ways.

And that simple shift in my head, it just gave me so much internal freedom, unstifled me in so many ways. So yeah, you really want to be careful how you define yourself because no matter what you choose, you're almost choosing a mental prison for yourself. So make sure you choose a very broad and easily navigable prison.

So yeah, you really want to be careful how you define yourself because no matter what you choose, you're almost choosing a mental prison for yourself. So make sure you choose a very broad and easily navigable prison.

I think if you think about all of the worst relationship decisions you've made chances are you were either drunk or you were madly in love with somebody. And you probably used that love to justify the horrible decision. I think the truth is that romantic love is great. It feels amazing. It's very powerful. But it doesn't necessarily fix relationship problems.

I think if you think about all of the worst relationship decisions you've made, chances are you were either drunk or you were madly in love with somebody. And you probably used that love to justify the horrible decision. I think the truth is that romantic love is great. It feels amazing. It's very powerful. But it doesn't necessarily fix relationship problems.

In fact, if the relationship is unhealthy, then romantic love can actually make that relationship feel even worse. Romantic love actually just amplifies whatever relationship already exists underneath. So if it's a healthy relationship and it's a very loving, respectful relationship, then the romantic love will make it feel even better.

In fact, if the relationship is unhealthy, then romantic love can actually make that relationship feel even worse. Romantic love actually just amplifies whatever relationship already exists underneath. So if it's a healthy relationship and it's a very loving, respectful relationship, then the romantic love will make it feel even better.

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

But if it's a disrespectful relationship, it doesn't have trust, and the people don't treat each other well, then the romantic love will actually make that relationship worse. So be very, very careful around romantic love. And very much like a drug, romantic love it short-circuits your ability to be rational. Your decision-making gets worse.

But if it's a disrespectful relationship, it doesn't have trust, and the people don't treat each other well, then the romantic love will actually make that relationship worse. Thank you.

So the same way you wouldn't drive when you're drunk, don't make any too big decisions while you're in the throes of romantic love.

Marriage has been fantastic. When I was younger, I didn't even know if I would ever get married. I had very little desire to get married. Even when I met my wife, I was still on the fence of whether marriage even made sense as a concept or an institution. Now that I am married, and actually even very quickly after I got married, I've become a very big proponent of marriage.

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

The reason is actually pretty simple. There's a lot of value in constraints. And coming back to talking about clarity and focus, right? Like knowing what's worth caring about. The value of a marriage is that it solves so many of those questions for you theoretically, for the rest of your life.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Sometimes the way I describe it is that before I was married, even when I was in relationships, a percentage of my brain was always running this piece of software and the software was called, where's the hot girl in the room and does she like me? And I think most males could definitely relate to this software, but I don't know, maybe women too.

But it was kind of the same way if you leave Photoshop on your computer and it just slows everything else down. It was like this program was running in the back of my brain. I'm just always looking around being like, oh wow, she's really cute. I wonder if she'd like me. It was just this pattern in the back of my head that went nonstop.

As soon as I got engaged, it was like closing that piece of software. And suddenly like 20% of my brain's bandwidth was freed to think about more important things. And It was actually incredibly liberating, which I found very fascinating because by definition, marriage is supposed to constrain you. It's supposed to put limits on you. It's supposed to limit your freedom, right?

But I found the actual psychological experience was that it was completely liberating because I never had to worry about all of these things I used to worry about all the time. And just the comfort and the ease that comes with that, I think can't be overstated. And then on top of that, the trust that you build with somebody over a long period of time, the stability that you build with them,

you can't put a value on it. It's incredibly powerful and energizing knowing that no matter what happens in my business, no matter what happens in my personal life, there's always somebody that I care about who's got my back, who's always going to be supportive, who can always give me advice, who can always tell me if I'm bullshitting myself or screwing up. It's priceless.

I definitely think getting off the apps, if you can, is useful. I think the apps unintentionally filter for the wrong things. Unfortunately, I was single before the apps. But when I think back to my dating life, I can't tell you how many times I met a woman and I wasn't initially that interested in her. But say over the course of the evening or...

meeting her a couple times, the attraction slowly grew. And it was all these intangible things. It's like, oh, she's got this quirky sense of humor. And like, oh, wow, she said this really interesting thing. And there's a chemistry that happens. And next thing you know, it's like, wow, she's actually really hot. That's cool.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

And I think the apps, they rob everybody of the opportunity of having that experience. We're very unconscious of most of the things that draw us to another person and most of the things that will make us happy in a relationship. And most of the things that we think will make us happy in a relationship actually won't. They're like very superficial or inconsequential.

And so, yeah, I think the apps are just filtering for the wrong things. And I think if you have ways to meet people in the real world, you should absolutely lean into that.

The other piece of advice I give to single people all the time is sit down, write down a list of all the things you want in a partner, and then take that list, prioritize that list from most important to least important with the absolute top two or three items should be kind of non-negotiables. Like, I'd rather be single than date a person without these traits.

Mark whatever is non-negotiable to you and then delete the rest of the list. and only look for the things that are non-negotiable. Because what I see over and over again these days, and again, it ties into the perception of so many options, is that people will meet somebody great

They'll check all of the non-negotiable boxes, but then there's some very superficial thing, quote unquote, wrong with them. That's like number 12 on the list. It's like, oh, well, you know, their parents are from this state and I don't want to have to travel there on holidays. And they're done. It's ridiculous.

People break up with each other, stop dating each other for the stupidest, most inconsequential, unimportant reasons. So... Find your list of non-negotiables. Delete everything else off the list. Those are all nice to haves. They're not must-haves. And understand that even if you find the perfect partner, they're still going to drive you crazy like 10% of the time. That's just life. That's humans.

Humans are annoying. Every single human on this earth is annoying 10% of the time at least. So accept that fact and good luck.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's a trait that I always tell people who are in a new relationship. So I often get the question of people like, hey, I met this amazing person. We've been dating for three months. What should I be looking out for? What are the signs that we're really good for each other long term? And the answer I always give is no.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

when you have your first fight, really pay attention to how it goes. Because if you fight well, meaning if you make up quickly, forgive each other quickly, compromise quickly, move on quickly, and there's no bad blood, people don't resent each other, people aren't bringing up an argument from four months ago to score a point against each other.

If you fight well, if the fights are productive and relatively quick, That's the magic sign. That's the sign of like, this has legs. This is going to last for a long time. Because every couple fights, every couple disagrees about dumb stuff. The question is, are you able to move beyond the dumb stuff and not take it personally and not escalate things?

Oh my God, I love that metaphor. Here you go. It's like buying a single stock and holding it for 30 years is going to give you much better returns than buying and selling stocks every single day. Not only because you're probably going to buy and sell the wrong ones, but the friction costs, all the fees, the carry costs and the brokerage fees and everything, it's going to eat your portfolio alive.

There's just something about arbitrary ages that I think it's useful to take stock of your life, how much you've progressed, how much things have changed. And just the decade years, 20, 30, 40 are probably useful years to do it. I don't think there's anything necessarily special about them, but I don't know, it's switching over to a new decade.

So yeah, buy and hold.

It's funny because I wrote a dating book early in my career. And I think one of the first things I say in that dating book is that the only real dating advice is self-improvement. Everything else is either a detail or a distraction. I still believe that. The best thing you can do as a single person to increase your opportunities...

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is to simply improve yourself, to develop better social skills, better social awareness, meet more people, improve your career, develop confidence, independence, all those things. The problem is sometimes you run into people who feel like they are amazing themselves, but they're not meeting amazing people. And in those situations, it's generally one of two problems.

There's just something about arbitrary ages that I think it's useful to take stock of your life, how much you've progressed, how much things have changed, and just the decade years, 20, 30, 40, are probably useful years to do it.

One is you're deluding yourself. You think your market value is much higher than it actually is, in which case it's a reality check. But the second issue is sometimes you do have amazing people, but they're just looking in the wrong places. They're not thinking clearly about who is going to make them happy, who they're probably going to naturally be compatible with, and...

what demographic of dating they're going to have the least amount of friction with. I'll draw another business analogy in here. When you're building a business and you're going to launch a product, you do tons of research on your target market. You get a really clear understanding of, okay,

What are the age, demographic, geographics of the people who are going to buy this product, the ones that are going to use it the most, the most profitable customers, right? People don't apply that same thinking to dating. They just spray and pray. They just send out 50 messages to people on apps and just hope, right? They don't think really... hard about like, okay, who am I going to appeal to?

What is my lifestyle going to appeal to? If you're really religious, why are you trying to meet somebody in a club? Go to church. If you are a high achiever and very driven professionally... Why are you hanging out at football parties trying to meet somebody? Go to business networking events. Go to industry events. Try to meet somebody at work.

It's basic common sense stuff like that that I'm like shocked how many people miss it.

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I don't think it's harder for them to date. I think it's harder for them to commit because you run into a concept called paradox of choice, which is that the more options you have, the less satisfied you generally feel when you choose one. So you get this situation where you always feel like you could probably do a little bit better if you just kept looking.

And that can get you in the trouble, right? Because at some point, you just have to buy and hold.

So it makes sense to like take a little bit of extra time, take stock of your life and consider what's changed.

The best way to decide is to simply find a person who, you naturally stop wanting to see other people. For example, when I met my wife, I was dating like three other girls. And the first date with her went amazing, but I still saw the other girls. And then the second date was also amazing.

I don't think there's anything necessarily special about them, but I don't know, it's switching over to a new decade, so it makes sense to take a little bit of extra time, take stock of your life, and consider what's changed.

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And I noticed after that second date, when I went back out with some of the other girls, I was kind of like sitting there being like, yeah, she's all right, but man, this other girl, I'd kind of rather be hanging out with her. And so like there was like this natural, the desire to see other people just started to kind of naturally fade over the course of like a month, month and a half.

And I just kind of naturally wanted to see her more and more.

Absolutely. There really is a chemistry thing that happens and you do have to filter and look for that. In your case, you know, I would say, when did you start dating again? Like how long have you been dating?

Oh, okay. So you're like, you're fresh back on the market, basically. At this phase, what I would do is just really try to pay attention. The men that you go on dates with, just really try to pay attention to like the things you like and the things you don't. And be honest with it too, because there's probably, I imagine there's probably guys you go on dates with

So you're like, you're fresh back on the market, basically. At this phase, what I would do is just really try to pay attention. The men that you go on dates with, just really try to pay attention to like the things you like and the things you don't. And be honest with it too, because there's probably, I imagine there's probably guys you go on dates with

There are things you like about them that you didn't really expect to like. And there's things you didn't like about them that you also didn't really expect to not like. Like, just try to learn your own preferences in this period because you're still just fresh back on the market. There's no rush. I would just use this as data collection.

There are things you like about them that you didn't really expect to like. And there's things you didn't like about them that you also didn't really expect to not like. Like, just try to learn your own preferences in this period because you're still just fresh back on the market. There's no rush. I would just use this as data collection.

Like, just try to understand what you're feeling and what you're drawn to and then start filtering for those types of men.

Like, just try to understand what you're feeling and what you're drawn to and then start filtering for those types of men.

My 20s, I very much optimized for novelty, experimentation, and self-discovery, which I think are good things for young people in general to optimize for. I probably went a little bit too hard on all that stuff. I spent most of my 20s living as a nomad. I spent most of those years living abroad. I was never nailed down in a specific city, country, relationship.

My 20s, I very much optimized for novelty, experimentation, and self-discovery, which I think are good things for young people in general to optimize for. I probably went a little bit too hard on all that stuff. So I spent most of my 20s living as a nomad. I spent most of those years living abroad. I was never nailed down in a specific city, country, relationship.

It's changed a lot over the years. But 2024, it's probably like... 40 to 50% books, 20 to 25% courses, and then 25 to 35% brand deals and ad revenue. And then there's a little bit of speaking in there. I don't do a ton of speaking, but I'd say 5% speaking fees.

Podcasts and newsletter primarily, but we also do some YouTube brand deals.

It's changed a lot over the years. But 2024, it's probably like... 40 to 50% books, 20 to 25% courses, and then 25 to 35% brand deals and ad revenue. And then there's a little bit of speaking in there. I don't do a ton of speaking, but I'd say 5% speaking fees.

Ooh, I do not.

Podcasts and newsletter primarily, but we also do some YouTube brand deals.

Ooh, I do not.

I'll stick to nonfiction because fiction is kind of its own thing. But in the nonfiction world, the typical business model for like a nonfiction author is you The book is actually a lead magnet for their speaking fee. So you write a book, I don't know, you pick like some sort of business concept, like some sales tactic, right? You write a book about it.

That defines you as the expert on B2B sales in this industry. That gets you invited to all sorts of industry events. Bunch of companies want to bring you in to consult. That's actually where most of your revenue comes from. Because that, you know, you're probably charging 25K a speaking fee. You're doing... 10, 20K per consulting gig. You do 20 of those a year. That's a low six-figure income.

I'll stick to nonfiction because fiction is kind of its own thing. But in the nonfiction world, the typical business model for like a nonfiction author is... The book is actually a lead magnet for their speaking fee. So you write a book, I don't know, you pick like some sort of business concept, like some sales tactic, right? You write a book about it.

Whereas the book itself, you're probably making 25 to 50K total off of the book. So most nonfiction authors, that's the model is they get really clear. They want to target a specific industry or define expertise for a specific industry. They write the book to be the lead gen for that industry. And then they actually go get paid on speaking and consulting.

That defines you as the expert on B2B sales in this industry. That gets you invited to all sorts of industry events. Bunch of companies want to bring you in to consult. That's actually where most of your revenue comes from. Because that, you know, you're probably charging 25K a speaking fee. You're doing...

I was traveling around the world partying a lot. That had both benefits and drawbacks. The benefits was that it exposed me to a very wide variety of experiences and people at a very young age. I think I probably got ahead of the curve in terms of understanding myself and understanding people and understanding culture. And I think that will play into some of the success of the books.

10, 20K per consulting gig, you do 20 of those a year, that's a low six-figure income, whereas the book itself, you're probably making 25 to 50K total off of the book.

Correct. So I'm self-help, which is a very broad audience. And also it's less B2B, it's B2C, right? So it's high volume, low price point and towards the top of the market in terms of volume. So I'm published, I think in 75 different languages. I've hit number one, I think in 13 or 14 different countries. And then subtle artists just had this insane staying power.

So most nonfiction authors, that's the model, is they get really clear, they want to target a specific industry or define expertise for a specific industry, they write the book to be the lead gen for that industry, and then they actually go get paid on speaking and consulting.

So book royalties continue to be a huge part of my income. And speaking is a relatively minor part of my income. It's funny because I don't actually charge that much more than kind of a general nonfiction author for speaking, just because I don't have like a super business friendly message that's gonna improve sales by 20% in the next quarter or anything like that.

Correct. So I'm self-help, which is a very broad audience and also it's less B2B, it's B2C, right? So it's high volume, low price point and towards the top of the market in terms of volume. So I'm published, I think, in 75 different languages. I've hit number one, I think, in 13 or 14 different countries. And then Subtle Artists just had this insane staying power.

So I was traveling around the world, partying a lot. And that had both benefits and drawbacks. The benefits was that it exposed me to a very wide variety of experiences and people at a very young age. So I think I probably got ahead of the curve in terms of understanding myself and understanding people and understanding culture. And I think that will play into some of the success of the books.

I'm just kind of, I'm the not give a fuck guy, right? So it's, I'm usually just coming in for general motivation and to shake hands with everybody. So speaking is not a huge part of my model.

So book royalties continue to be a huge part of my income. And speaking is a relatively minor part of my income. It's funny because I don't actually charge that much more than kind of a general nonfiction author for speaking, just because I don't have like a super business friendly message that's going to improve sales by 20% in the next quarter or anything like that.

I really do think it actually worked out very much in my favor that I started as an entrepreneur because I always approached my writing as an entrepreneur differently. It's funny because a lot of things I was saying about the dating market, I very much see my books as just products, right?

I'm just kind of, I'm the not give a fuck guy, right? So it's, I'm usually just coming in for general motivation and to shake hands with everybody. So speaking is not a huge part of my model.

And it's like looking for product market fit, understanding customer demographics, ideal customer, target audience. Like these are all the same concepts, but most authors don't think about that. Actually, a very common piece of advice that I give to aspiring writers is to study copywriting. And when I tell them that, they, like, wince and get really uncomfortable.

I really do think it actually worked out very much in my favor that I started as an entrepreneur because I always approached my writing as an entrepreneur differently. It's funny because a lot of things I was saying about the dating market, I very much see my books as just products, right?

Like, they don't like hearing that, right? Because every aspiring writer has this romantic vision of being, like, the next Hemingway or whatever. Virginia Woolf or something. And it's when you tell them to go study advertising and copywriting because ultimately the business you're dealing in is attention and words command attention and certain word combinations are much more powerful than others.

And it's like looking for product market fit, understanding customer demographics, ideal customer, target audience. Like these are all the same concepts, but most authors don't think about that. Actually, a very common piece of advice that I give to aspiring writers is to study copywriting. And when I tell them that, they wince and get really uncomfortable. They don't like hearing that, right?

Most writers don't think of it in those terms. And I think I've gained quite a bit from thinking in those terms. I also think when I look at the traditional self-help industry, say of like the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, it was very America-centric. It was very boomer-centric.

Because Every aspiring writer has this romantic vision of being like the next Hemingway or Virginia Woolf or something. And it's when you tell them to go study advertising and copywriting because ultimately the business you're dealing in is attention and words command attention and certain word combinations are much more powerful than others. Most writers don't think of it in those terms.

Like it was very just, hey, all these people in midlife crisis, go to this seminar and find your potential and you'll live up to your purpose and all this stuff. And I think I was one of the first who tapped into the international market And a lot of that is just because I came up on the internet, right?

And I think I've gained quite a bit from thinking in those terms. I also think when I look at the traditional self-help industry, say of like the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, it was very America-centric. It was very boomer-centric. Like it was very just, hey, all these people in midlife crisis, go to this seminar and find your potential and you'll live up to your purpose and all this stuff.

So it's like, I found the message that not only appealed to Americans, but it appealed to people in India, it appealed to people in Taiwan and South Africa and Egypt and Brazil. And so that's relatively new as well.

And I think I was one of the first who tapped into the international market. And a lot of that is just because I came up on the internet, right? So it's like, I found the message that not only appealed to Americans, but it appealed to people in India. It appealed to people in Taiwan and South Africa and Egypt and Brazil. And so that's relatively new as well.

It's a great question. So the way I look at it is that we live in this world now where it's a multi-platform business. We're on all the different social platforms where I'm podcasting, I've got YouTube videos, I've got newsletters, I've got blogs. And the strengths and weaknesses of every platform is different.

It got me a little bit behind the curve in terms of I was out drinking and partying a lot. And I wasted a lot of time on some silly and stupid things and probably didn't work as hard as I could have or should have at certain points. It's one of these weird things. It's impossible to know if that trade-off was worth it.

Some platforms are very good at discovery and finding new audience, but they're not great at monetizing. Other platforms are great for monetizing, but it's harder to grow. And different platforms also attract different types of people. So What I've really been focusing on the last couple of years is trying to lean into the strength of each platform and not worry about the weakness.

It's a great question. So the way I look at it is that we live in this world now where it's a multi-platform business. We're on all the different social platforms. I'm podcasting. I've got YouTube videos. I've got newsletters. I've got blogs. And the strengths and weaknesses of every platform is different.

For example, YouTube is great at discovery and audience building. It's not so great at monetization. So I don't really worry a whole lot about making YouTube profitable. I just want it to grow the audience as much as possible. And then I'll just funnel those people into the newsletter or into the podcast or something else like that. As you know, podcasts are great business models.

Some platforms are very good at discovery and finding new audience, but they're not great at monetizing. Other platforms are great for monetizing, but it's harder to grow. And different platforms also attract different types of people. So what I've really been focusing on the last couple of years is trying to lean into the strength of each platform and not worry about the weakness.

It's a great business to be in. So with the podcast, it's all about just maximizing engagement, monetization, making sure the listeners are happy, making sure there's some consistency, and not worrying so much about growth and discovery and, oh, is this going to get caught by the algorithm and all that stuff? So that's how I've been thinking about it.

It got me a little bit behind the curve in terms of I was out drinking and partying and a lot. And I wasted a lot of time on some silly and stupid things and probably didn't work as hard as I could have or should have at certain points. So it's one of these weird things. It's impossible to know if that trade-off was worth it.

So for example, YouTube is great at discovery and audience building. It's not so great at monetization. So I don't really worry a whole lot about making YouTube profitable. I just want it to grow the audience as much as possible. And then I'll just funnel those people into the newsletter or into the podcast or something else like that. As you know, podcasts are great business models.

In terms of LTV or monetization, I'm in a transition phase at the moment in that my monetization is very much, like all my courses and everything, They were built and launched in the 2010s, and they did really, really well back then, but now they're out of date.

It's a great business to be in. So with the podcast, it's all about just maximizing engagement, monetization, making sure the listeners are happy, making sure there's some consistency, and not worrying so much about growth and discovery and, oh, is this going to get caught by the algorithm and all that stuff? So that's how I've been thinking about it.

So my team and I were actually in the process of, we're going to redo my entire backend, top to bottom, and we should hopefully start launching that stuff next year or this year, 2025. 2025 and 2026 will be the process of relaunching the backend and building out a new funnel, just because what I have now is old and... and out of date.

In terms of LTV or monetization, I'm in a transition phase at the moment in that My monetization is very much, like all my courses and everything, they were built and launched in the 2010s, and they did really, really well back then, but now they're out of date.

So my team and I were actually in the process of, we're gonna redo my entire backend, top to bottom, and we should hopefully start launching that stuff next year or this year, 2025. 2025 and 2026 will be the process of relaunching the backend and building out a new funnel. Just because what I have now is old and out of date.

I've had my newsletter for a long time. I think I actually started my first one in like 2010. For most of my career, my approach to the newsletter has just been, oh, this is just where the super fans are and these are probably, these are the people that are most likely to buy something. I never thought about the newsletter as a product itself or as a platform itself, that's relatively new.

I think that's something that's developed just the last few years. So my newsletter just kind of went along as a companion to my blog or the rest of my business. And it grew steadily, but I never put too much emphasis on it. And then I'd say probably 2022, 21, 22, when all newsletters really started to take off in a big way and monetization became much better with them.

I've had my newsletter for a long time. I think I actually started my first one in like 2010. For most of my career, my approach to the newsletter has just been, oh, this is just where the super fans are and these are probably, these are the people that are most likely to buy something. I never thought about the newsletter as a product itself or as a platform itself, that's relatively new.

And we've been focusing really hard on growing the newsletter since then. And so, yeah, now it's a huge part of the business. It's a big moneymaker for us. It's a huge audience and it's very, very engaged. So it's like anything I launch or any book I do or whatever I promote there, it's going to send a lot of juice.

I think that's something that's developed just the last few years. So my newsletter just kind of went along as a companion to my blog or the rest of my business. And it grew steadily, but I never put too much emphasis on it. And then I'd say probably 2022, 21, 22, when all newsletters really started to take off in a big way and monetization became much better with them.

And we've been focusing really hard on growing the newsletter since then. And so, yeah, now it's a huge part of the business. It's a big moneymaker for us. It's a huge audience and it's very, very engaged. So it's like anything I launch or any book I do or whatever I promote there, it's going to send a lot of juice.

But as a 40-year-old now, I look back at my 25, 26-year-old self, and I'm like, bring it down a notch, right? Do you really need to go out on a Wednesday night? There's probably better things you could have done. But ultimately, I think because of the nature of the industry that I'm in, which essentially is...

And if you're on a platform, you don't control distribution and you also don't control the list. With a newsletter, you own the list. So even if your email service provider kicks you off their service, you can just go sign up for another one and import your list and send all the same people.

But as a 40-year-old now, I think back, I look back at my 25, 26-year-old self and I'm like, bring it down a notch, right? Do you really need to go out on a Wednesday night? Like, there's probably better things you could have done.

And if you're on a platform, you don't control distribution and you also don't control the list. With a newsletter, you own the list. So even if your email service provider kicks you off their service, you can just go sign up for another one and import your list and send all the same people.

My spiel about goals is that I think most of the value of a goal is that it actually gets you off the couch and doing something. And the actual achieving of the goal itself is less important. So I always advise people to set goals and intentions that are achievable and practical. And don't get so worried if you don't actually hit the arbitrary number that you set for yourself.

The point is to just motivate yourself to start taking action in the right direction. So if you decide you want to lose 20 pounds and you only lose 15, who cares? You got off your ass, you did something, you accomplished something. That's what matters. So goals, it's all about direction and not the destination.

My spiel about goals is that I think most of the value of a goal is that it actually gets you off the couch and doing something. And the actual achieving of the goal itself is less important. So I always advise people to set goals and intentions that are achievable and practical. And don't get so worried if You don't actually hit the arbitrary number that you set for yourself.

The point is to just motivate yourself to start taking action in the right direction. So if you decide you want to lose 20 pounds and you only lose 15, who cares? You got off your ass. You did something. You accomplished something. That's what matters. So goals, it's all about direction and not the destination.

Write down all of the stuff that you are doing today. and look at what is the least useful. I find this with myself. I make myself do this pretty regularly. There's always something that I'm doing on a weekly basis that there's no reason for me to be doing it. It's just habit, and I should be outsourcing it. I should be hiring somebody to do it, or it just shouldn't be done at all.

It's very difficult. Generally speaking, the easiest way to make progress is not by adding a new activity. It's by eliminating something that's not bringing a lot of value.

Write down all of the stuff that you are doing and... Look at what is the least useful. I find this with myself. I make myself do this pretty regularly. There's always something that I'm doing on a weekly basis that there's no reason for me to be doing it. It's just habit. And I should be outsourcing it. I should be hiring somebody to do it. Or it just shouldn't be done at all.

observing and commenting on human nature, noticing psychological concepts, cultural trends, being able to appeal and address a wide international audience. I do think that lifestyle ended up kind of inadvertently helping me quite a bit in my career for those reasons. I did technically meet all my career goals at 32.

But ultimately, I think because of the nature of the industry that I'm in, which essentially is observing and commenting on human nature, noticing psychological concepts, cultural trends, being able to appeal and address a wide international audience, I do think that lifestyle ended up kind of inadvertently helping me quite a bit in my career for those reasons.

I would say, and it's funny because this is going to be paradoxical with the word profit, but both in business and in life, when in doubt, just give more value because eventually it will come back to you in some shape or form.

But it's very difficult. Generally speaking, the easiest way to make progress is not by adding. a new activity, it's by eliminating something that's not bringing a lot of value.

I'm everywhere. I'm doing everything. Check out the podcast, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck podcast with Mark Manson. We're actually rebranding, relaunching the show soon. That's a whole nother conversation, but definitely check it out on all your podcast feeds. YouTube channel is just Mark Manson. And then on every platform, my books are in every store. You can't escape me.

I would say, and it's funny because this is going to be paradoxical with the word profit, but both in business and in life, when in doubt, just give more value because eventually it will come back to you in some shape or form.

Thank you.

I'm everywhere. I'm doing everything. Check out the podcast, the Subtle Art Not Giving a Fuck podcast with Mark Manson. We're actually rebranding, relaunching the show soon. That's a whole nother conversation, but definitely check it out on all your podcast feeds. YouTube channel is just Mark Manson. And then on every platform, my books are in every store. You can't escape me.

Thank you.

Part of that is that I think the success of my book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, just vastly outstripped any expectation I ever had. And part of that too is that I was probably thinking too small at the time. And I guess we could get into each of those things individually if you want. But that's my 20s in a nutshell, I think.

I did technically meet all my career goals at 32. Part of that is that I think the success of my book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, just vastly outstripped any expectation I ever had. And part of that too is that I was probably thinking too small at the time. And I guess we could get into each of those things individually if you want. But that's my 20s in a nutshell, I think.

It was a very different time back then. So just to give a little background, I started blogging in 2007. By 2009, I'd eked out a very small full-time income. And by 2012 or 13, I'd grown a pretty significant audience online. So by the time my stuff really started to take off, I was five or six years in. I'd been scraping by. I'd been living in a lot of countries that were very cheap to live in.

It was a very different time back then. So just to give a little background, I started blogging in 2007. By 2009, I'd eked out a very small full-time income. And by 2012 or 13, I'd grown a pretty significant audience online. So by the time my stuff really started to take off, I was five or six years in. I'd been scraping by. I'd been living in a lot of countries that were very cheap to live in.

And suddenly I find myself, I have a bunch of articles going viral on Facebook and Twitter at the time. And I find myself with millions of readers. And back then, what's known today as the creator economy didn't really exist back then.

And suddenly I find myself, I have a bunch of articles going viral on Facebook and Twitter at the time. And I find myself with millions of readers. And back then, what's known today as the creator economy didn't really exist back then.

So back then, the roadmap was just build an audience online and then that can get your foot in the door to go make a TV show or get a book published or make an album, right?

So back then, the roadmap was just build an audience online and then that can get your foot in the door to go make a TV show or get a book published or make an album, right?

I was 27.

So when the agents and editors started coming knocking, right? And they're like, hey, some of these articles are great. We think we could get you a book deal. What do you think about that? It was very exciting. And as somebody who

I was 27.

So when the agents and editors started coming knocking, right? And they're like, hey, some of these articles are great. We think we could get you a book deal. What do you think about that? It was very exciting. And as somebody who never studied writing or journalism in school,

never studied writing or journalism in school, who had never held down a real job in his life, who didn't even do well in English class as a student, the idea of me publishing a book was just so, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening.

who had never held down a real job in his life, who didn't even do well in English class as a student, the idea of me publishing a book was just so, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. So when I entered into that world, I set what I thought at the time were pretty ambitious goals, which was I want to be a New York Times bestseller at some point in my life.

So when I entered into that world, I set what I thought at the time were pretty ambitious goals, which was I want to be a New York Times bestseller at some point in my life. And over the course of my career, I'd like to sell a million books.

And at the time, I think because I overestimated the prestige and the power and the size of the traditional publishing industry, those things felt pretty impossible. They felt like things I would have to work towards for 10, 20 years to accomplish. And

And over the course of my career, I'd like to sell a million books. And at the time, I think because I overestimated the prestige and the power and the size of the traditional publishing industry, those things felt pretty impossible. They felt like things I would have to work towards for 10, 20 years to accomplish. And

What I didn't realize is that I had actually unwittingly tapped into the most powerful distribution system in the world, which was social media, and already amassed an audience much larger than most New York Times bestselling authors. I just didn't know that yet. That wasn't obvious to me, and I don't think that was obvious to people in the publishing industry either.

What I didn't realize is that I had actually unwittingly tapped into the most powerful distribution system in the world, which was social media, and already amassed an audience much larger than most New York Times bestselling authors. I just didn't know that yet. That wasn't obvious to me, and I don't think that was obvious to people in the publishing industry either.

So when the book came out and it started doing really well, it sold a million copies, I think, within six or eight months. And it was still in the New York Times.

So when the book came out and it started doing really well, it sold a million copies, I think, within six or eight months. And it was still in the New York Times.

It was everywhere. And so... I think the combination of my maybe irrationally low expectations and just the suddenness of the success, I didn't know what to do with myself. I hit this point where I'm like, well, okay, that's done. I, what now? Right? Like, how do you follow that up? And by the way, I never planned for anything after this in my life or my career.

It was everywhere. And so I think the combination of my maybe irrationally low expectations and just the suddenness of the success, I didn't know what to do with myself. I hit this point where I'm like, well, okay. That's done. What now, right? How do you follow that up? And by the way, I never planned for anything after this in my life or my career. And I'm only 32 years old.

and I'm only 32 years old, so what the hell am I supposed to do next? And I actually struggled with that for a number of years.

So what the hell am I supposed to do next? And I actually struggled with that for a number of years.

I struggled with that for sure. Because it felt, I don't know, in a lot of industries, publishing being one of them, the marginal improvement of a product that's 10% better is 10 times the result, right? There are plenty of books that were 95% as good as mine, but they sold 1% as many copies. And that's just the way that creative industries work.

I struggled with that for sure. Because it felt, I don't know, in a lot of industries, publishing being one of them, the marginal improvement of a product that's 10% better is 10 times the result, right? There are plenty of books that were 95% as good as mine, but they sold... 1% as many copies. And that's just the way that creative industries work.

It's like the very, very top 0.1% do 99% of the sales. And I think that's just a hard concept for us to wrap our heads around to begin with. But certainly at the time, it was very difficult for me to wrap my head around. So it very much felt like, did I do this? What the hell did I do?

It's like the very, very top 0.1% do 99% of the sales. And I think that's just a hard concept for us to wrap our heads around to begin with. But certainly at the time, it was very difficult for me to wrap my head around. So it very much felt like, did I do this? What the hell did I do?

And it's actually funny because even to this day, a lot of aspiring authors or people who just wrote their first book and it's about to come out, they'll come to me for advice on book launches and book marketing and book promotion. And inevitably, they're incredibly disappointed because I have nothing interesting to say. I didn't do anything special.

And it's actually funny because even to this day, a lot of aspiring authors or people who just wrote their first book and it's about to come out, they'll come to me for advice on book launches and book marketing and book promotion. And inevitably, they're incredibly disappointed because I have nothing interesting to say. I didn't do anything special.

You just need to write an amazing book that people want to go talk about and buy for their friends and buy for their family members. But that's the answer that nobody wants to hear. Everybody wants to know that there's some hack or some formula or some promotion that I did that moved the needle. And the fact is, there really wasn't.

You just need to write an amazing book that people want to go talk about and buy for their friends and buy for their family members. But that's the answer that nobody wants to hear. Everybody wants to know that there's some hack or some formula or some promotion that I did that moved the needle. And the fact is, there really wasn't.

Yes, that's actually a really good point. I would say the majority of the marketing and promotion was done before I wrote it, which was sitting down and deciding what I should write in the first place and why. Because at that point, a lot of the ideas that ended up in the book had been viral blog posts. I had really thought deeply about why they went viral.

Yes. That's actually a really good point. I would say The majority of the marketing and promotion was done before I wrote it, which was sitting down and deciding what I should write in the first place and why. Because at that point, a lot of the ideas that ended up in the book had been viral blog posts. And I had really thought deeply about why they went viral.

And what you just described is a big reason. In a large self-help market full of touchy-feely, woo-woo stuff, this was pretty gritty and raw and realistic. And internally to my team, I used to say, I write self-help for people who hate self-help. That was the target market. So yeah, it was...

And what you just described is a big reason. In a large self-help market full of touchy-feely woo-woo stuff, This was pretty gritty and raw and realistic and Internally to my team, I used to say, I write self-help for people who hate self-help. That was the target market.

Choosing the target audience, understanding the market segmentation, how I was going to differentiate myself, and figuring the branding out. That was the stuff that put gasoline on the fire. The email sequence and how many book tour events I did, that was all just completely inconsequential.

So yeah, it was choosing the target audience, understanding the market segmentation, how I was going to differentiate myself, and figuring the branding out. That was the stuff that put gasoline on the fire. The email sequence and how many book tour events I did, that was all just completely inconsequential.

Yeah, it was really funny, actually. I remember when I was pitching Subtle Art to publishers, I had all my newsletter followers and my Facebook followers, all the numbers were in the pitch. And none of the publishers cared about that. All they wanted to know was which celebrities I knew or which celebrities I thought I could talk to to get promoted. They were very, very concerned about that.

Yeah, it was really funny, actually. I remember when I was pitching Subtle Art to publishers, I had all my newsletter followers and my Facebook followers, all the numbers were in the pitch. And none of the publishers cared about that. All they wanted to know was which celebrities I knew or which celebrities I thought I could talk to to get promoted. They were very, very concerned about that.

And I was like, yeah, I don't really, I don't know. It's actually very funny looking back in hindsight.

And I was like, yeah, I don't really, I don't know. It's actually very funny looking back in hindsight.

I made some good decisions. But looking back, at the time, I did not fully understand why they were good decisions. So I had chosen a particular lifestyle. That lifestyle, I think, had perhaps put me ahead of the curve in terms of understanding life. a number of topics and issues that a lot of people were interested in.

I made some good decisions. But looking back, at the time, I did not fully understand why they were good decisions. So I had chosen a particular lifestyle. That lifestyle, I think, had perhaps put me ahead of the curve in terms of understanding life. a number of topics and issues that a lot of people were interested in.

And through experimentation with my writing online, I discovered that I was really good about writing those topics and that I could generate a very large audience on those topics. I never put all those things together. I never understood that this weird wayward lifestyle that I had was also fueling this ability to look at human nature and personal growth in completely different novel ways.

And through experimentation with my writing online, I discovered that I was really good about writing those topics and that I could generate a very large audience on those topics. I never put all those things together. I never understood that this weird wayward lifestyle that I had was also fueling this ability to look at human nature and personal growth in completely different novel ways.

But I think looking back, I'm glad I figured out how to capitalize on it.

But I think looking back, I'm glad I figured out how to capitalize on it.

For example, like 2011, I spent a couple months in the UK, half of which was sleeping on a couch in London. From there, I managed to get a visa into Russia. I spent six months in Russia, mostly in St. Petersburg, studying Russian and dating Russian girls. And then that visa expired, so then I went to Ukraine. And then from there, I met up with a friend from home. By then it was summer.

For example, like 2011, I spent a couple months in the UK, half of which was sleeping on a couch in London. From there, I managed to get a visa into Russia. I spent six months in Russia, mostly in St. Petersburg, studying Russian and dating Russian girls. And then that visa expired. So then I went to Ukraine. And then... From there, I met up with a friend from home. By then, it was summer.

I write self-help for people who hate self-help. My book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, it sold a million copies, I think, within six or eight months. I never planned for anything after this in my life, and I'm only 32 years old, so what the hell am I supposed to do next?

So we did a whole backpacking trip across Europe, ended in Ibiza. I partied in Ibiza for a week, then flew to Amsterdam to meet a client. That was like the first half of my 2011 journey. All of that's living out of a suitcase. All of that is running my business from my laptop. Wi-Fi was often horrendous in half the places I went. But it was very much just like a lush, degenerate lifestyle.

So we did a whole backpacking trip across Europe, ended in Ibiza. I partied in Ibiza for a week, then flew to Amsterdam to meet a client. That was like the first half of my 2011. All of that's living out of a suitcase. All of that is running my business from my laptop. Wi-Fi was often... horrendous in half the places I went. But it was very much just like a lush, degenerate lifestyle.

It was a ton of fun. But looking back, I think what was very educating about it was being in all those different countries and really enmeshing myself with those cultures, what you start to notice is When you just live in your own country, you take for granted, you assume that your values and your assumptions and beliefs are universal.

It was a ton of fun. But looking back, I think what was very educating about it was being in all those different countries and really enmeshing myself with those cultures, what you start to notice When you just live in your own country, you take for granted, you assume that your values and your assumptions and beliefs are universal.

Well, I think biohacking tends to be around things like hot and cold plunges, hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, all these devices and tools and things to optimize your health, which are fine. They work and they're mediated by biological processes and I use those. However, if someone comes in like that woman

Well, I think biohacking tends to be around things like hot and cold plunges, hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, all these devices and tools and things to optimize your health, which are fine. They work and they're mediated by biological processes and I use those. However, if someone comes in like that woman

that I just described to you, no biohacker in the world is gonna fix her because they don't understand the science around functional medicine. Now, if they're a trained practitioner, fine, they'll figure it out, or hopefully they'll figure it out. But when you just use these modalities without trying to understand what the underlying root cause is, It's another symptomatic treatment.

that I just described to you, no biohacker in the world is gonna fix her because they don't understand the science around functional medicine. Now, if they're a trained practitioner, fine, they'll figure it out, or hopefully they'll figure it out. But when you just use these modalities without trying to understand what the underlying root cause is, It's another symptomatic treatment.

You might feel better for a little bit. You go on Asana. You go on a cold punch. You feel good. But then what? You still have your arthritis. You still have autoimmune disease. You still have your migraines. You still have whatever you got. And no one's telling you how to figure out the root of that. So I'm not opposed to it. And Dave's a good friend. And I love Dave Asprey.

You might feel better for a little bit. You go on a sauna. You go on a cold plunge. You feel good. But then what? You still have your arthritis. You still have autoimmune disease. You still have your migraines. You still have whatever you got. And no one's telling you how to figure out the root of that. So I'm not opposed to it. And Dave's a good friend. And I love Dave Asprey. And we...

And we hang out and talk all the time. And I learned from him. And there's all kinds of great tools that I personally use and have.

I'm just saying that the functional medicine is sort of the OG biohacking in a sense, because it's really about understanding much deeper level what's going on biologically, biochemically, genetically, in your microbiome and ways that I think most people just, it's a lot to take in. And the problem is, you know, there's 37 billion, billion chemical reactions to your body every second.

hang out and talk all the time. And I learned from him and there's all kinds of great tools that I personally use and have.

I'm just saying that the functional medicine is sort of the OG biohacking in a sense, because it's really about understanding much deeper level what's going on biologically, biochemically, genetically, you know, in your microbiome and ways that I think most people just, it's a lot to take in. The problem is there's 37 billion, billion chemical reactions to your body every second.

Nobody can understand all that. And you have tens of thousands of metabolites in your blood and chemicals. We do 19 on a regular panel. With functional health, we do 499, which is $15,000 to test for less than 500 bucks.

And you get over 110 biomarkers, and you can add on other things as well to go deeper dives into whether you're exposed to chemicals, whether you're at Alzheimer's risk, whether you have immune issues. I mean, so we have Lyme disease. We provide you a really deep, robust platform where you get to be driving the bus. You don't have to go to a doctor. You don't have to ask for permission.

Nobody can understand all that. You have tens of thousands of metabolites in your blood and chemicals. We do 19 on a regular panel. With functional health, we do 499, which is $15,000 to test for less than 500 bucks. And you get over 110 biomarkers.

And you can add on other things as well to go deeper dives into whether you're exposed to chemicals, whether you're at Alzheimer's risk, whether you have immune issues. I mean, so we have Lyme disease. We provide you a really deep, robust platform where you get to be driving the bus. You don't have to go to a doctor. You don't have to ask for permission. You don't have to beg for the requisition.

You don't have to beg for the requisition. You don't have to go to try to find a lab that will order you if they get you. your insurance to pay for an effort. I mean, I have insurance. I go to the lab and my doctor ordered some stuff that I wanted to do. And it was outside of function. And she's like, well, it'll pay for this test, but not this test and this test, but not this test.

You'll be charged for that. You'll be charged. I'm like, oh, you know, it's like, but that's what function solves all of that. And you have this beautiful integrated dashboard where you have your data forever and you track it over time. You get an app, which helps give you direct feedback. And it's a very integrated experience into your life.

You don't have to go to try to find a lab that will order you if they get your insurance to pay for it. I mean, I have insurance. I go to the lab and my doctor ordered some stuff that I wanted to do. And it was outside of function. And she's like, well, it'll pay for this test, but not this test, and this test, but not this test. You'll be charged for that. You'll be charged.

I'm like, oh, you know, it's like, but that's what function solves all of that. And you have this beautiful integrated dashboard where you have your data forever and you track it over time. You get an app, which helps give you direct feedback. And it's a very integrated experience into your life.

Well, I think you come to sort of accept that as you get older, you have cancer, you get heart disease, you get diabetes, you lose muscle, your brain function declines, you lose your ability to do things. These are not normal consequences of aging. Frailty is not a normal consequence of aging. It's a consequence A phenomenon that happens as we get older if we don't do something about it.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Well, I think you come to sort of accept that as you get older, you have cancer, you get heart disease, you get diabetes, you lose muscle, your brain function declines, you lose your ability to do things. These are not normal consequences of aging. Frailty is not a normal consequence of aging. It's a consequence a phenomenon that happens as we get older if we don't do something about it.

And all of us have seen those, you know, 90-year-old ladies doing like gymnastics and 100-year-old people running the 100-yard dash. You know, it's kind of crazy stuff like that, right? And what is it about those people? Well, they have understood by accident or by studying that there are certain behaviors that foster optimal health. It's eating whole foods, unprocessed diet.

All of us have seen those 90-year-old ladies doing gymnastics and 100-year-old people running the 100-yard dash. It's crazy stuff like that. What is it about those people? Well, they have understood by accident or by studying that there are certain behaviors that foster optimal health. It's eating whole foods, unprocessed diet, it's low sugar and low starch.

It's low sugar and low starch. and full of phytochemicals and fiber and got it with amounts of protein, especially more animal protein as you get older because it's harder to assimilate and build. You need to make sure you exercise and do strength training and you need flexibility. You need cardiovascular training and stability training. They understand you need good sleep.

and full of phytochemicals and fiber and got it with amounts of protein, especially more animal protein as you get older because it's harder to assimilate and build. You need to make sure you exercise and do strength training and you need flexibility. You need cardiovascular training and stability training. They understand you need good sleep.

They understand they need to manage their stress and their own emotional regulation. And they also have deep social connections and relationships that foster a sense of belonging, which all are ingredients for optimal health. And when you look at people like that in the blue zones, that's basically what they have. It's not that they were vegan or not vegan.

They understand they need to manage their stress and their own emotional regulation. And they also have deep social connections and relationships that foster a sense of belonging, which all are ingredients for optimal health. And when you look at people like that in the blue zones, that's basically what they have. It's not that they were vegan or not vegan.

It was that they had these other factors and that they were profoundly impacted just by default by these situations that they found themselves born into. which we totally in the West don't have. We're the opposite. We have dysregulated sleep schedules. We have tremendous amounts of stress. We eat crappy food. You know, we don't exercise enough. My R-rank told me I didn't exercise enough yesterday.

It was that they had these other factors and that they were profoundly impacted just by default by these situations that they found themselves born into. which we totally in the West don't have. We're the opposite. We have dysregulated sleep schedules. We have tremendous amounts of stress. We eat crappy food. You know, we don't exercise enough. My R-rank told me I didn't exercise enough yesterday.

I was like, I'm busy today. So, you know, there's all these things that we're doing to impede our ability to actually live a vibrant, long, healthy life.

It was a busy day. So, you know, there's all these things that we're doing to impede our ability to actually live a vibrant, long, healthy life.

Yeah, well, I got my biological age done when I was 62 and I was 43. Then I implemented more of the things that I learned and some other strategies. I got two years older at 64, and I redid my biological age. It was 39. Even though I got two years older chronologically, I got four years younger biologically. So that's the power we have in epigenetic reprogramming.

Yeah, well, I got my biological age done when I was 62 and I was 43. Then I implemented more of the things that I learned and some other strategies. I got two years older at 64 and I redid my biological age. It was 39. Even though I got two years older chronologically, I got four years younger biologically. So that's the power we have in epigenetic reprogramming.

Now, I mentioned earlier the Aminaka factors and so forth. These are sort of behind-the-sky things that have to be tested in humans and make sure they're safe and effective. But right now, even with what we know, by optimizing and tweaking, you can actually still reverse your epigenetic biological age. At any point in your life, it can go backwards or forwards.

Now, I mentioned earlier the Aminaka factors and so forth. These are sort of behind-the-sky things that have to be tested in humans and make sure they're safe and effective. But right now, even with what we know, by optimizing and tweaking, you can actually still reverse your epigenetic biological age. At any point in your life, it can go backwards or forwards.

Oh, if I can do everything I love to do, yes. If I can, no. I'm still riding my bike at 119. I'll keep going.

Oh, if I can do everything I love to do, yes. If I can, no. I'm still riding my bike at 119. I'll keep going.

If you kind of go on a bender or whatever, you don't sleep and you party and you eat crappy food, you'll get older biologically. And then you can change that and reprogram and go back.

If you kind of go on a bender or whatever, you don't sleep and you party and you eat crappy food, you'll get older biologically. And then you can change that and reprogram and go back.

Well, I've been doing this my whole life. So it wasn't like I was 64 biologically. And then in five years, I reversed that to 40. So I have been eating whole foods my whole life. I've been not eating processed foods. I don't remember the last time I had a Zoda. I mean, I probably was a kid. I exercised my entire life for the last 50 years. I have...

Well, I've been doing this my whole life. So it wasn't like I was 64 biologically. And then in five years, I reversed that to 40. So I have been eating whole foods my whole life. I've been not eating processed foods. I don't remember the last time I had a Zoda. I mean, I probably was a kid. I exercised my entire life for the last 50 years. I have...

Make sure I prioritize community, connection, sleep, and manage stress. And all those things play a role. And then I've done things to optimize my microbiome, my mitochondria, my immune system. And those will all really help. So all those things kind of nudge you back into a healthier state. And there's some supplements and things that I've taken that I think have made a difference.

Make sure I prioritize community, connection, sleep, and manage stress. And all those things play a role. And then I've done things to optimize my microbiome, my mitochondria, my immune system. And those will all really help. So all those things kind of nudge you back into a healthier state. And there's some supplements and things that I've taken that I think have made a difference.

I've taken urolithin A. I take... amino acids that should help be assimilated. I also take something that's called NMN, which is a precursor of NAD that helps also revitalize your cells. I do a number of different things that I think are important from a supplement perspective, but I think most of it's like the 10%. The rest of it is the 80 to 90%.

I've taken urolithin A. I take... amino acids that should help be assimilated. I also take something that's called NMN, which is a precursor of NAD that helps also revitalize your cells. I do a number of different things that I think are important from a supplement perspective, but I think most of it's like the 10%. The rest of it is the 80 to 90%.

Yeah. Yeah. We do a calculation based on your biomarkers of what your biological age is based on scientific data that shows certain blood biomarkers correlate with your epigenetic biological age. And you can see it go backwards or forwards. Now, if you do different tests, you're going to get different numbers, right? Some tests will be like five years younger, 10 years younger.

Yeah. Yeah. We do a calculation based on your biomarkers of what your biological age is based on scientific data that shows certain blood biomarkers correlate with your epigenetic biological age. And you can see it go backwards or forwards. Now, if you do different tests, you're going to get different numbers, right? Some tests will be like five years younger, 10 years younger.

You may not be able to compare apples to apples by switching tests, but if you stay with the same tests consistently, you'll see the changes.

You may not be able to compare apples to apples by switching tests, but if you stay with the same tests consistently, you'll see the changes.

Yeah, so basically there's a concept that I think is really important called the exposome. We all have been taught that our genes control who we are. They're our destiny. Whatever we got, we got. We can't change it. Our parents got diabetes, our parents got cancer, our parents got whatever, heart disease. It's just in our future. Your genes are not your destiny.

Yeah, so basically there's a concept that I think is really important called the exposome. We all have been taught that our genes control who we are. They're our destiny. Whatever we got, we got. We can't change it. You know, our parents got diabetes, our parents got cancer, our parents got whatever, heart disease. It's just in our future. Your genes are not your destiny.

They may provide you with a roadmap of what your predispositions are, but not your destiny. So what controls your destiny? It's something called the exposal. That is a sum total of everything that you're exposed to throughout your life that washes over your biology, including your genes, and reprograms them based on what you're doing.

They may provide you with a roadmap of what your predispositions are, but not your destiny. So what controls your destiny? It's something called the exposal. That is a sum total of everything that you're exposed to throughout your life that washes over your biology, including your genes, and reprograms them based on what you're doing.

If you're eating like me, if you had a whole foods diet, if you exercise, you do all these things for 50 years, you're going to be biologically younger. Your epigenetics are going to track as if you're younger. And I'll talk about what epigenetics are. So the exposome is what you eat. It's your exercise, your nutrient levels. It's stress management. It's community. It's sleep.

If you're eating, like me, if you had a whole foods diet, if you exercise, you do all these things for 50 years, you're going to be biologically younger. Your epigenetics are going to track as if you're younger. And I'll talk about what epigenetics are. So the exposome is what you eat. It's your exercise, your nutrient levels. It's stress management. It's community. It's sleep.

It's all the things we've just talked about. Light, air, water, all those things. I went out in bright sunlight this morning for 20 minutes. All those things matter. That influences how your biology is regulated. We're biological organisms and we're controlled in the same way by our external factors.

So the exposome is literally everything from toxins to your gut microbiome, to your diet, to sleep, everything that your body's exposed to. That's why we call it the exposome. Your epigenome is how the exposome regulates your biology. Now, what is the epigenome? Epi means above. So you've got your genes, you've got about 20,000 genes.

It's all the things we've just talked about. Light, air, water, all those things. I went out on a bright sunlight this morning for 20 minutes. All those things matter. That influences how your biology is regulated. We're biological organisms and we're controlled in the same way by our external factors.

I would just say I'm not a biohacker. I'm a functional medicine physician. And so I use deep science. Some of the tools are similar, but functional medicine is really the ultimate biohacker.

I would just say I'm not a biohacker. I'm a functional medicine physician. And so I use deep science. Some of the tools are similar, but functional medicine is really the ultimate biohacker.

So the exposome is literally everything from toxins to your gut microbiome, to your diet, to sleep, everything that your body's exposed to. That's why we call it the exposome. Your epigenome is how the exposome regulates your biology. Now, what is the epigenome? Epi means above. So you've got your genes, you've got about 20,000 genes.

Your epigenome, you think about like the keyboards on a piano, right? You have 88 keys, they ain't changing. You know, I got 20,000 genes, they ain't changing. Unless I do gene editing or splicing or some other weird thing that's coming around the corner, they're not changing.

What can change is how those genes are expressed, how they're turned on or off, whether they're up-regulated or down-regulated, whether they drive inflammation or stop inflammation, whether they accelerate aging or slow aging. And they are basically the control mechanisms to turn on or off genes. So think of them like switches or knobs. And you can dial them up or down based on what you're doing.

Your epigenome, you think about like the keyboards on a piano, right? You have 88 keys, they ain't changing. You know, I got 20,000 genes, they ain't changing. Unless I do gene editing or splicing or some other weird thing that's coming around the corner, they're not changing.

What can change is how those genes are expressed, how they're turned on or off, whether they're up-regulated or down-regulated, whether they drive inflammation or stop inflammation, whether they accelerate aging or slow aging. And they are basically the control mechanisms to turn on or off genes. So think of them like switches or knobs. And you can dial them up or down based on what you're doing.

And that's how almost all of the impacts of a lot of the practices we talked about are have their effect. That's how the exposome regulates your health and longevity, your biology and your risk of disease is through your epigenome, then translates into the expression of genes and proteins and biological functions, and you want to have a healthy epigenome.

And that's how almost all of the impacts of a lot of the practices we talked about are have their effect. That's how the exposome regulates your health and longevity, your biology and your risk of disease is through your epigenome, then translates into the expression of genes and proteins and biological functions. And you want to have a healthy epigenome.

There was a great example, for example, a brand new journal who discovered this phenomena was these mice that are bred to be obese. They're yellow, they're fat, specifically yellow fat mice. He gave a series of the females who are pregnant certain nutrients called methylating nutrients that regulate the epigenome.

There was a great example, for example, a branding journal who discovered this phenomena was these mice that are bred to be obese. So they're yellow, they're fat, specifically yellow fat mice. He gave a series of the females who are pregnant certain nutrients called methylating nutrients that regulate the epigenome.

It's a little complicated, but there's something called methylation, which is a chemical process that regulates your genes. It involves B6, folate, and B12. Vitamins and minerals are extremely important. They run everything in your body. Every biochemical reaction needs a vitamin or mineral. If you don't have them or they're insufficient, you're going to have gummed up biochemistry.

It's a little complicated, but there's something called methylation, which is a chemical process that regulates your genes. It involves B6, folate, and B12. Vitamins and minerals are extremely important. They run everything in your body. Every biochemical reaction needs a vitamin or mineral. If you don't have them or they're insufficient, you're going to have gummed up biochemistry.

and gummed up biochemistry translates into disease. So he basically gave these pregnant mice some B vitamins and a few other amino acids and things to help to support this process. The offspring were perfect. They were thin. They were healthy. They were gray. They were not yellow fat mice, even though genetically they were bred to be yellow fat mice. And this was a massive discovery.

and gummed up biochemistry translates into disease. So he basically gave these pregnant mice some B vitamins and a few other amino acids and things to help to support this process. The offspring were perfect. They were thin. They were healthy. They were gray. They were not yellow fat mice, even though genetically they were bred to be yellow fat mice. And this was a massive discovery.

And I think this is what really has led to our understanding of this whole process of how we can modify our epigenome and the outcomes. So when your mother's eating, when she's pregnant with you, the stresses you experience in utero that your mother might have experienced or all your early childhood experiences, all those imprint on your epigenome and can affect you, toxins you're exposed to.

And I think this is what really has led to our understanding of this whole process of how we can modify our epigenome and the outcomes. So when your mother's eating, when she's pregnant with you, the stresses you experience in utero that your mother might have experienced or all your early childhood experiences, all those imprint on your epigenome and can affect you, toxins you're exposed to.

This is why we have to pay attention to how we live because if we want to feel good and do good and engage in life and do the work we want to do and be successful in our work and have great relationships and enjoy life and be happy, if you feel like crap, it's not that much fun.

This is why we have to pay attention to how we live because if we want to feel good and do good and engage in life and do the work we want to do and be successful in our work and have great relationships and enjoy life and be happy, if you feel like crap, it's not that much fun.

Yeah, you know, I've seen women wanting to be pregnant. I measure their toxin load. I'm like, whoa, we got to do something about this. We got to reduce your exposures, the toxins. You've got to get these heavy metals down because you want a healthy baby. And so we really proactively do preconception work.

Yeah, you know, I've seen women wanting to be pregnant. I measure their toxin load. I'm like, whoa, we got to do something about this. We got to reduce your exposures, the toxins. You've got to get these heavy metals down because you want a healthy baby. And so we really proactively do preconception work.

I mean, I had a whole podcast about that on The Doctor's Pharmacy, and now it's called The Dr. Hyman Show. We dove deep into what you need to know preparing for a baby, what happens when you're pregnant, how do you take care of yourself, what are the things that matter scientifically to optimize the chance of having a healthy baby.

I mean, I had a whole podcast about that on The Doctor's Pharmacy, and now it's called The Dr. Hyman Show. We dove deep into what you need to know preparing for a baby, what happens when you're pregnant, how do you take care of yourself, what are the things that matter scientifically to optimize the chance of having a healthy baby.

Oh, God, no. What's really amazing, in one of the animal studies, they've given rapamycin, which is something that is a drug discovered in Rapa Nui that inhibits this pathway called one of the longevity switches I call longevity switches. that control so much. So mTOR is one of these.

Oh, God, no. What's really amazing, in one of the animal studies, they've given rapamycin, which is something that is a drug discovered in Rapa Nui that inhibits this pathway called one of the longevity switches, I call them longevity switches, that controls so much. So mTOR is one of these.

And mTOR essentially is a pathway that is going to help you build muscle, but also when it's activated and when it's inactivated or inhibited in some way, it's going to allow the cells to replenish and repair through this process called autophagy, which basically means you're eating your old cells and you're reusing the parts. It's recycling.

And mTOR essentially is a pathway that is going to help you build muscle, but also when it's activated and when it's inactivated or inhibited in some way, it's going to allow the cells to replenish and repair through this process called autophagy, which basically means you're eating your old cells and you're reusing the parts. It's recycling.

So it's cleaning up the mess that we make all the time in our bodies. Where does that garbage go, right? Somebody has to fix it. So rapamycin inhibits that and accelerates the autophagy process. And it didn't give it in the right ways. It extends life and extends health in animal models consistently and reliably.

So it's cleaning up the mess that we make all the time in our bodies. Where does that garbage go, right? Somebody has to fix it. So rapamycin inhibits that and accelerates the autophagy process. And it didn't give it in the right ways. It extends life and extends health in animal models consistently and reliably.

And so there are interesting ways that we can sort of activate these longevity switches and pathways. And I've talked about that a lot in my book, Young Forever. And how do we understand how these work, what we can do? And it's not complicated. There's a few simple practices, sometimes a few supplements that can really help modulate some of these pathways that activate the longevity switches.

And so there are interesting ways that we can sort of activate these longevity switches and pathways. And I talk about that a lot in my book, Young Forever, and how do we understand how these work, what we can do. And it's not complicated. There's a few simple practices, sometimes a few supplements that can really help modulate some of these pathways that activate the longevity switches.

So this is one of the hallmarks of aging is mitochondrial dysfunction. It's key to so many diseases. Your mitochondria, I think of them as like the powerhouse of your cell, little energy factories that take food and oxygen, turn into energy that your body uses. And we use gasoline or carb, and it combusts and creates energy. What we run on is something called ATP.

So this is one of the hallmarks of aging is mitochondrial dysfunction. It's key to so many diseases. Your mitochondria, I think of them as like the powerhouse of your cell, little energy factories that take food and oxygen, turn it into energy that your body uses. And we use gasoline or carb, and it combusts and creates energy. We'll be running something called ATP.

It's just a molecule produced from food and oxygen. And the waste products are carbon dioxide, which we breathe out, and water, which we pee out, and some free radicals, which we have antioxidant mechanisms to control. And what happens is they're your energy, right? So if you have poor functioning mitochondria, you're going to have low energy. You're going to be weaker.

I love life. What is the definition of health? It's not the absence of disease. It's something else. How do we unlock the keys to optimal biological performance? I've spent 40 years studying the science of the function of the body. Frailty is not a normal consequence of aging. It's a consequence, a phenomenon that happens as we get older if we don't do something about it.

I love life. What is the definition of health? It's not the absence of disease. It's something else. How do we unlock the keys to optimal biological performance? I've spent 40 years studying the science of the function of the body. Frailty is not a normal consequence of aging. It's a consequence, a phenomenon that happens as we get older if we don't do something about it.

It's just a molecule produced from food and oxygen. And the waste products are carbon dioxide, which we breathe out, and water, which we pee out, and some free radicals, which we have antioxidant mechanisms to control. And what happens is they're your energy, right? So if you have poor functioning mitochondria, you're going to have low energy. You're going to be weaker.

You're going to have lower muscle mass. So the key to longevity is keeping your mitochondria healthy and keeping them strong and actually having better, more mitochondria. And so the way to do that is by exercise. So resistance training builds muscle and mitochondria. Sprint training or HIIT training does that as well. Exercise with oxygen therapy, hypoxia training does that.

You're going to have lower muscle mass. So the key to longevity is keeping your mitochondria healthy and keeping them strong and actually having better, more mitochondria. And so the way to do that is by exercise. So resistance training builds muscle and mitochondria. Sprint training or HIIT training does that as well. Exercise with oxygen therapy, hypoxia training does that.

There's a lot of ways to do it. There's supplements like urolithin A, which causes mitophagy and mitochondrial renewal. their mitochondrial support supplements sometimes that you need. So there are a lot of ways to optimize your mitochondria, but they're injured by too much food, too much sugar and starch, too many environmental toxins, all those things from the microbiome that are bad.

There's a lot of ways to do it. There's supplements like urolithin A, which causes mitophagy and mitochondrial renewal. their mitochondrial support supplements sometimes that you need. So there are a lot of ways to optimize your mitochondria, but they're injured by too much food, too much sugar and starch, too many environmental toxins, all those things from the microbiome that are bad.

All those things can damage your mitochondria. So learning about your mitochondria, how to take care of them is really important. And again, it's one of the things we can look at as we start to test things and see what's going on in our bodies.

All those things can damage your mitochondria. So learning about your mitochondria, how to take care of them is really important. And again, it's one of the things we can look at as we start to test things and see what's going on in our bodies.

I mean, it means being able to do whatever you love to do. If it's sitting there rocking Jeremy to book, it's that. If it's hiking up a mountain, it's that. If it's making love with your partner, then it's that.

I mean, it means being able to do whatever you love to do. If it's sitting there rocking Jeremy to book, it's that. If it's hiking up a mountain, it's that. If it's making love with your partner, then it's that.

So for me, it's really being able to get up in the morning and do what you love to do and not be encumbered by some of the conditions that are mostly preventable that we seem to think of as normal of parts of aging. They're not really. And what's happening on the science is quite exciting.

So for me, it's really being able to get up in the morning and do what you love to do and not be encumbered by some of the conditions that are mostly preventable that we seem to think of as normal of parts of aging. They're not really. And what's happening on the science is quite exciting.

We're seeing a lot of research, for example, there's a Washington Post article recently about the aminoc factors, which is Basically, a scientific discovery that won the Nobel Prize that allows you to reprogram your genes back to a younger you. It's called epigenetic reprogramming, and it's being researched by the Altos Lab and Jeff Bezos and also by Sam Altman's lab.

We're seeing a lot of research, for example, there's a Washington Post article recently about the aminoc factors, which is Basically, a scientific discovery that won the Nobel Prize that allows you to reprogram your genes back to a younger you. It's called epigenetic reprogramming, and it's being researched by the Altos Lab and Jeff Bezos and also by Sam Altman's lab.

Well, I love life. As long as I can enjoy life and be with my friends and do the things I love and ride my bike and hike and enjoy what I'm doing and have meaning and purpose and contribute to the world and add value. I'm 65. I kind of figured a few things out by now and You know, wisdom always doesn't come with age, but I've had a bunch of hard knocks and that's really taught me a lot.

Well, I love life. As long as I can enjoy life and be with my friends and do the things I love and ride my bike and hike and enjoy what I'm doing and have meaning and purpose and contribute to the world and add value. I'm 65. I kind of figured a few things out by now and You know, wisdom always doesn't come with age, but I've had a bunch of hard knocks and that's really taught me a lot.

And so I kind of feel happy and content and satisfied and like, I want to keep going. I mean, I don't really care if I get to 120 or 100 or 99 or 95 or 90. I just want to feel good and do good.

And so I kind of feel happy and content and satisfied and like, I want to keep going. I mean, I don't really care if I get to 120 or 100 or 99 or 95 or 90. I just want to feel good and do good.

I'm 65 and two years ago, I co-founded a company. It's a big startup company right now. So who does startups in their 60s? Most people are like looking at golf courses and not startups. I mean, I want to contribute to the world. I want to do things. I get excited. We're building, we're creating, we're dreaming. We're imagining a different future for healthcare and medicine.

I'm 65 and two years ago, I co-founded a company. It's a big startup company right now. So who does startups in their 60s? Most people are like looking at golf courses and not startups. I mean, I want to contribute to the world. I want to do things. I get excited. We're building, we're creating, we're dreaming. We're imagining a different future for healthcare and medicine.

We're adding value to people's lives. It's something to get up for every morning and to be excited about and take all the things that I know that are almost impossible for any single doctor to synthesize and to sort through and make sense of and provide each individual with a personalized approach to their health that's going to actually optimize how they feel.

We're adding value to people's lives. It's something to get up for every morning and to be excited about and take all the things that I know that are almost impossible for any single doctor to synthesize and to sort through and make sense of and provide each individual with a personalized approach to their health that's going to actually optimize how they feel.

And that's really the key here is to end needless suffering. And for me, that's my purpose. And that's my mission. And plus having fun, enjoying my life and my wife and everybody around me.

And that's really the key here is to end needless suffering. And for me, that's my purpose. And that's my mission. And plus having fun, enjoying my life and my wife and everybody around me.

This is something I've been working on for a long time. And I wrote a book called Food Fix, which lays out from field to fork what's wrong with our food system. And if there's one thing that's killing us, aside from environmental toxins and stress and our sleep schedule, it's probably 80% food. And it's something that we can control and do something about.

This is something I've been working on for a long time. And I wrote a book called Food Fix, which lays out from field to fork what's wrong with our food system. And if there's one thing that's killing us, aside from environmental toxins and stress and our sleep schedule, it's probably 80% food. And it's something that we can control and do something about.

So there's a lot of really amazing research going on in this right now in the longevity space. That's going to be an unlock. For most of us, I think we can expect to get to our 90s or be 100s. you know, vigorous and good health if we know what to do to take care of our bodies. And I saw this all over the place.

So there's a lot of really amazing research going on in this right now in the longevity space. That's going to be an unlock. For most of us, I think we can expect to get to our 90s or be 100s. you know, vigorous and good health if we know what to do to take care of our bodies. And I saw this all over the place.

And unless we actually take it seriously and fix our food system, we're a bit of a mess. And so right now there's a resurgence of interest in health around the country. There's the Make America Healthy Again movement. And so there's that energy happening. And in Washington, we're working on policies to bring those changes to the average American.

And unless we actually take it seriously and fix our food system, we're a bit of a mess. And so right now there's a resurgence of interest in health around the country. There's the Make America Healthy Again movement. And so there's that energy happening. And in Washington, we're working on policies to bring those changes to the average American.

For example, in West Virginia, they got rid of red dyes and other dyes. In California, they did the same thing. These are great steps to start to push the food system to produce healthier food for all of us.

For example, in West Virginia, they got rid of red dyes and other dyes. In California, they did the same thing. These are great steps to start to push the food system to produce healthier food for all of us.

For most people, and I literally just got a text from somebody this morning saying, my cousin read your book. They lost 100 pounds. My person who's working with me in Washington around food policy, she lost 112 pounds in the last few years working with me. And without taking any of these drugs. Now, some people are really stuck.

For most people, and I literally just got a text from somebody this morning saying, my cousin read your book. They lost 100 pounds. My person who's working with me in Washington around food policy, she lost 112 pounds in the last few years working with me. And without taking any of these drugs. Now, some people are really stuck.

And if you're stuck and you need help and you have not really addressed the underlying reasons why you eat that, sometimes it's not what you're eating, it's what's eating you. You got to figure that out. I think it's really important to do that. And I think when people do that, they don't necessarily have to take these drugs, which are helpful.

And if you're stuck and you need help and you have not really addressed the underlying reasons why you eat that, sometimes it's not what you're eating, it's what's eating you. You got to figure that out. I think it's really important to do that. And I think when people do that, they don't necessarily have to take these drugs, which are helpful.

They can be extremely helpful, but they also come with side effects, muscle loss, weight gain. If you stop, they can have other issues. you know, like pancreatic issues and pancreatitis, and they can cause bowel obstruction if you take it for a long time. So they can be a good tool, but they're just a tool. They're not a panacea. And I think they've helped a lot of people. I'm not against them.

They can be extremely helpful, but they also come with side effects, muscle loss, weight gain. If you stop, they can have other issues. you know, like pancreatic issues and pancreatitis, and they can cause bowel obstruction if you take it for a long time. So they can be a good tool, but they're just a tool. They're not a panacea. And I think they've helped a lot of people. I'm not against them.

I think they're used in ways that sometimes don't make sense to me. Why give a six-year-old an ozempic shot for the rest of his life? It's not his fault he's overweight. It's the environment he's in. And I think that can actually get really fixed. So I think it's important for people to understand that they have power.

I think they're used in ways that sometimes don't make sense to me. Why give a six-year-old an ozempic shot for the rest of his life? It's not his fault he's overweight. It's the environment he's in. And I think that can actually get really fixed. So I think it's important for people to understand that they have power.

And the food industry has basically hijacked our brain chemistry, our metabolism, our desires for different foods. And these are things that can actually be changed. You can literally change your brain chemistry and have an incredibly powerful shift in your cravings and your desire for foods. You know, for example, people go on keto.

And the food industry has basically hijacked our brain chemistry, our metabolism, our desires for different foods. And these are things that can actually be changed. You can literally change your brain chemistry and have an incredibly powerful shift in your cravings and your desire for foods. You know, for example, people go on keto.

They don't really need Ozempic because naturally the way they're eating will shut off that craving. And the food addiction is a real thing. About 14% of adults and kids are addicted to food, biologically addicted. This is really based on good evidence from the Yale Food Addiction Scale and deep science around the world where we looked at this.

They don't really need Ozempic because naturally the way they're eating will shut off that craving. And the food addiction is a real thing. About 14% of adults and kids are addicted to food, biologically addicted. This is really based on good evidence from the Yale Food Addiction Scale and deep science around the world where we looked at this.

I mean, I was in Sardinia and I was in Ikaria and I just saw people who are like really old and really thriving. And, you know, this woman was like 87 years old and she was like running up and down the side of this mountain. I couldn't keep up with her. And she was, you know, tending to her giant gardens and farm and animals and trees. And it's quite amazing to see.

I mean, I was in Sardinia and I was in Ikaria and I just saw people who are like really old and really thriving. And, you know, this woman was like 87 years old and she was like running up and down the side of this mountain. I couldn't keep up with her. And she was, you know, tending to her giant gardens and farm and animals and trees. And it's quite amazing to see.

This is just horribly sad and horribly unfortunate because we We really don't need to do that. We can fix our food supply. We can fix this problem. And it has to be done at grassroots level. It has to be done at state level. It has to be done at federal level.

This is just horribly sad and horribly unfortunate because we We really don't need to do that. We can fix our food supply. We can fix this problem. And it has to be done at grassroots level. It has to be done at state level. It has to be done at federal level.

It's going to take time, but we're working with the FDA, working with the USDA, with HHS, the administration as best we can to try to push changes through my nonprofit.

It's going to take time, but we're working with the FDA, working with the USDA, with HHS, the administration as best we can to try to push changes through my nonprofit.

That's even crazy when you think of it. Like, wow, they're really just going to go there? They're literally going to just kind of circumvent Ozempic by making food even more addictive?

That's even crazy when you think of it. Like, wow, they're really just going to go there? They're literally going to just kind of circumvent Ozempic by making food even more addictive?

I think, you know, when you look, for example, at the Native Americans, one of the longest populations in the world until the turn of the 1900s was the Plains Indians. They had most of their diet from bison. And then they had berries and they had probably wild stuff they gathered. But predominantly their diet was meat. And they lived to be well over 100 and highly functional and active.

I think, you know, when you look, for example, at the Native Americans, one of the longest populations in the world until the turn of the 1900s was the Plains Indians. They had most of their diet from bison. And then they had berries and they had probably wild stuff they gathered. But predominantly their diet was meat. And they lived to be well over 100 and highly functional and active.

And these populations around the world where you see people like I was in Turkey, and it's not a technical blue zone, but man, they were a lot of really old people who were doing great. Were in their 80s, 90s, still working, still thriving, still making part of their community. And I think it's when you stop, you stop. I think retirement is the worst idea ever invented. Yeah.

And these populations around the world where you see people like I was in Turkey, and it's not a technical blue zone, but man, they were a lot of really old people who were doing great. Were in their 80s, 90s, still working, still thriving, still making part of their community. And I think it's when you stop, you stop. I think retirement is the worst idea ever invented. Yeah.

I don't really get it. But people don't retire. They just shift and change what they're doing. And I think these communities, and when you see these people living to be very old, it's because they found meaning, purpose. They've learned how to not sort of internalize the stresses of life. They've learned how to modulate their own diet and lifestyle to optimize their health.

I don't really get it. But people don't retire. They just shift and change what they're doing. And I think these communities, and when you see these people living to be very old, it's because they found meaning, purpose. They've learned how to not sort of internalize the stresses of life. They've learned how to modulate their own diet and lifestyle to optimize their health.

And they just figure it out.

And they just figure it out.

Well, think about it. If all your friends are going to McDonald's and drinking beer and two liters of soda a day and watching TV all the time, that's what you're going to be probably like. And if you have friends who are healthy and go to yoga and drink green juices and exercise and eat whole foods and... get together and share these things, you're more likely going to be healthy.

Well, think about it. If all your friends are going to McDonald's and drinking beer and two liters of soda a day and watching TV all the time, that's what you're going to be probably like. And if you have friends who are healthy and go to yoga and drink green juices and exercise and eat whole foods and... get together and share these things, you're more likely going to be healthy.

It's just so clear.

It's just so clear.

Christakis from Harvard did a lot of work on this, wrote a book called Connected, but he published research in the New England Journal of Medicine showing that, for example, from the Framingham data, which is a large study, probably one of the largest studies, longest growing studies in the world, in Framingham, Massachusetts, tracking their population, he found that those people who actually

Christakis from Harvard did a lot of work on this, wrote a book called Connected, but he published research in the New England Journal of Medicine showing that, for example, from the Framingham data, which is a large study, probably one of the largest studies, longest growing studies in the world, in Framingham, Massachusetts, tracking their population, he found that those people who actually

So I think if we understand the things that impede our health, We can remove those and we understand the things that enhance our health. We can add those. And it's really not that hard. It's just knowing what to do.

So I think if we understand the things that impede our health, We can remove those and we understand the things that enhance our health. We can add those. And it's really not that hard. It's just knowing what to do.

when they looked at the patterns around obesity, that you were about 40% likely to be overweight if your parents or siblings were overweight. But you were 171% more likely to be overweight if your friends are overweight. So your social connections matter and your relationships matter.

when they looked at the patterns around obesity, that you were about 40% likely to be overweight if your parents or siblings were overweight. But you were 171% more likely to be overweight if your friends are overweight. So your social connections matter and your relationships matter.

If you're somebody who just stands up all night playing video games and you're living in America and your friends are playing video games in Australia, I mean, your sleep-wake cycle, your circadian rhythm, everything's going to be awful.

If you're somebody who just stands up all night playing video games and you're living in America and your friends are playing video games in Australia, I mean, your sleep-wake cycle, your circadian rhythm, everything's going to be awful.

So the people in the communities that you have to surround yourself with, make sure that people who are leaning in towards wellness and health as opposed to not that.

So the people in the communities that you have to surround yourself with, make sure that people who are leaning in towards wellness and health as opposed to not that.

It would be high fructose corn syrup. Like that, you'd cut out most of the in the grocery store. And I think, you know, trans fats have been removed for the most part, which is great. But you want to make sure you're getting rid of those two things, trans fats and high fructose corn syrup. Just getting rid of that alone will make a huge difference. Or just even reading the ingredient list.

It would be high fructose corn syrup. Like that, you'd cut out most of the in the grocery store. And I think, you know, trans fats have been removed for the most part, which is great. But you want to make sure you're getting rid of those two things, trans fats and high fructose corn syrup. Just getting rid of that alone will make a huge difference. Or just even reading the ingredient list.

If there's an ingredient on there that you don't have at home, that you wouldn't use in your kitchen, like butylated hydroxy toluene or maltodextrin or mono and diglycerides, you probably shouldn't eat it.

If there's an ingredient on there that you don't have at home, that you wouldn't use in your kitchen, like butylated hydroxy toluene or maltodextrin or mono and diglycerides, you probably shouldn't eat it.

Yeah, totally right. Totally right.

Yeah, totally right. Totally right.

Yeah, I've written so many books about this. Food, what should I eat? The Pegan Diet, which is sort of a condensed version and with some kind of fun stuff in it. What we agree on is more than what we disagree on. You can get on the margins about vegan or paleo or keto or this or that. But the truth is, And we all agree we shouldn't be eating ultra-processed food.

Yeah, I've written so many books about this. Food, what should I eat? The vegan diet, which is sort of a condensed version and with some kind of fun stuff in it. What we agree on is more than what we disagree on. You can get on the margins about vegan or paleo or keto or this or that. But the truth is, And we all agree we shouldn't be eating ultra-processed food.

We all agree we should be reducing starch and sugar and refined carbohydrates in our diet. We shouldn't be eating things that aren't food, technically, like maltodextrin or butylated hydroxy toluene or red dye number three. We should be eating foods that are high in phytochemicals that We think of food as medicine where it changes everything in our biology in real time.

We all agree we should be reducing starch and sugar and refined carbohydrates in our diet. We shouldn't be eating things that aren't food, technically, like maltodextrin or butylated hydroxy toluene or red dye number three. We should be eating foods that are high in phytochemicals that We think of food as medicine where it changes everything in our biology in real time.

We should be thinking about having good quality fats from nuts and seeds and avocados and wild fish, small fish. And even, you know, for some people tolerate animal fats very well, especially if it's regeneratively raised. They have very different qualities of fats. So there's a lot of really good things you can do that are available from the diet that you can get even anywhere.

We should be thinking about having good quality fats from nuts and seeds and avocados and wild fish, small fish. And even, you know, for some people tolerate animal fats very well, especially if it's regeneratively raised. They have very different qualities of fats. So there's a lot of really good things you can do that are available from the diet that you can get even anywhere.

I mean, I've worked with people in the worst food deserts in America, and they've actually been able to make a huge impact and change their diet if they actually do the right things. And they will. They'll actually have a huge shift in their diet by actually doing this. So I'm pretty thrilled by how simple it is. But when people understand how to do it, then everything changes.

I mean, I've worked with people in the worst food deserts in America, and they've actually been able to make a huge impact and change their diet if they actually do the right things. And they will. They'll actually have a huge shift in their diet by actually doing this. So I'm pretty thrilled by how simple it is. But when people understand how to do it, then everything changes.

Exercise is critical. Your body needs to move. There's no doubt about it. We were designed to be moving organisms all the time. And that's how we evolved. Now, most of us don't do enough, and that's unfortunate. And I think 8% get the optimal amount, 23% get some moderate amount. But the key is to actually understand what's good for you. And it's different at different times in your life.

Exercise is critical. Your body needs to move. There's no doubt about it. We were designed to be moving organisms all the time. And that's how we evolved. Now, most of us don't do enough, and that's unfortunate. And I think 8% get the optimal amount, 23% get some moderate amount. But the key is to actually understand what's good for you. And it's different at different times in your life.

I've always been interested in the science of optimization in terms of how we function, whether it's the word functional medicine or the company I co-founded, Function Health. The core value is how do we unlock how to function at your best and how to unlock the keys to optimal biological performance? And it's really something that we're not only discovering.

I've always been interested in the science of optimization in terms of how we function, whether it's the word functional medicine or the company I co-founded, Function Health. The core value is how do we unlock how to function at your best and how to unlock the keys to optimal biological performance? And it's really something that we're not only discovering.

But I think you need at least 30 minutes of good cardio four or five times a week, three times a week of strength training, probably a day or two of flexibility and training and stability training. That's kind of bare minimum. If you can do that, you're going to maintain your health and be good for a long time.

But I think you need at least 30 minutes of good cardio four or five times a week, three times a week of strength training, probably a day or two of flexibility and training and stability training. That's kind of bare minimum. If you can do that, you're going to maintain your health and be good for a long time.

Because what you're doing is you're building muscle, you're building mitochondria, you're increasing muscle mass. And what really kills people is frailty. When you get older, you get frail. You're not able to get up out of a chair. You're not able to do what you love to do. Your mobility is decreased. Your function is decreased. That's all totally preventable by strength training.

Because what you're doing is you're building muscle, you're building mitochondria, you're increasing muscle mass. And what really kills people is frailty. When you get older, you get frail. You're not able to get up out of a chair. You're not able to do what you love to do. Your mobility is decreased. Your function is decreased. That's all totally preventable by strength training.

And you have to work harder as you get older because the body, unfortunately, it doesn't work as well. So you have to do a little more effort to get the same benefit. And I think that's something people have to do. But it's not optional. Exercise is just not optional.

And you have to work harder as you get older because the body, unfortunately, it doesn't work as well. So you have to do a little more effort to get the same benefit. And I think that's something people have to do. But it's not optional. Exercise is just not optional.

I would immediately have them get on a whole foods diet that I just talked about and have them just follow the principles of eat real food, low sugar, starch, good fats, adequate protein for where you are in your life phase and varies depending on where you are. Lots of phytochemicals, lots of fiber and just start there.

I would immediately have them get on a whole foods diet that I just talked about and have them just follow the principles of eat real food, low sugar, starch, good fats, adequate protein for where you are in your life phase and varies depending on where you are. Lots of phytochemicals, lots of fiber and just start there.

And if you're really having any health issues, I'd probably do my 10 day detox program, which is essentially a reset. It's just 10daydetox.com with the 10-day detox. And what really is amazing about it is that people get a reset. It's like putting your body back to its original factory settings, and you can see where food is impacting you. Oh, I didn't know that.

And if you're really having any health issues, I'd probably do my 10 day detox program, which is essentially a reset. It's just 10daydetox.com with the 10-day detox. And what really is amazing about it is that people get a reset. It's like putting your body back to its original factory settings, and you can see where food is impacting you. Oh, I didn't know that.

Oh, my rash was caused by food, or I didn't know that my migraines were caused by what I was eating, or I didn't know that my joint pain was caused by eating, or my sleep problem was caused by eating. So you get a really quick reset and then you can start to add foods back in. So that would be number one is get your food straight. And that's timing, planning, organizing. It's really important.

Oh, my rash was caused by food, or I didn't know that my migraines were caused by what I was eating, or I didn't know that my joint pain was caused by eating, or my sleep problem was caused by eating. So you get a really quick reset and then you can start to add foods back in. So that would be number one is get your food straight. And that's timing, planning, organizing. It's really important.

The amount of time you spend on your business, the fraction that you spend on your health, you'll get a lot of dividends from that. Get in the regular exercise routine. Not that hard. Just... Maybe if you just want to walk 30 minutes, if you walk in phone calls, that's good, better than nothing. You can have a walking treadmill. You can do more fun things. I like to bike.

The amount of time you spend on your business, the fraction that you spend on your health, you'll get a lot of dividends from that. Get in the regular exercise routine. Not that hard. Just... Maybe if you just want to walk 30 minutes, if you walk in phone calls, that's good, better than nothing. You can have a walking treadmill. You can do more fun things. I like to bike.

I like to do more mountain biking and road biking and tennis and other things that kind of are fun for me. I like to make exercise fun. Strength training, I've gotten into more and more, and it's been profound in terms of effect on my body, even as I'm older. I think learning how to regulate your nervous system is important. Self-soothing is something we learn how to do. We get activated, reactive.

I like to do more mountain biking and road biking and tennis and other things that kind of are fun for me. I like to make exercise fun. Strength training, I've gotten into more and more, and it's been profound in terms of effect on my body, even as I'm older. I think learning how to regulate your nervous system is important. Self-soothing is something we learn how to do. We get activated, reactive.

but learning how to practice whether it's breath work or meditation or some practice where you're resetting your nervous system because we're all in parasympathetic deficit. We need to be relaxing more. And then I think build community because, you know, as you're, building something and going through stuff, you know, when getting isolated is the worst thing you can do for a human being.

but learning how to practice whether it's breath work or meditation or some practice where you're resetting your nervous system because we're all in parasympathetic deficit. We need to be relaxing more. And then I think build community because, you know, as you're, building something and going through stuff, you know, when getting isolated is the worst thing you can do for a human being.

And so I think having that ability to work with your friends to build a fun community experience is really important. And that's something that, you know, it's been really important to me, especially as I've gotten older, is just invest in your friendships. Because when everything else goes, that's what will be left.

And so I think having that ability to work with your friends to build a fun community experience is really important. And that's something that, you know, it's been really important to me, especially as I've gotten older, is just invest in your friendships. Because when everything else goes, that's what will be left.

The health and wellness market is a billion-dollar market. There's a lot of ways people are entering that. But if you can figure out what you love and the intersection of what you love and what people need, often businesses are started from people's own needs. Like, I need to fix my own health. So as a physician, I got very sick when I was in my 30s.

The health and wellness market is a billion-dollar market. There's a lot of ways people are entering that. But if you can figure out what you love and the intersection of what you love and what people need, often businesses are started from people's own needs. Like, I need to fix my own health. So as a physician, I got very sick when I was in my 30s.

No one's really asked the question in medicine before, what is the definition of health? It's not the absence of disease. It's something else. And if you go to your doctor, you feel good, say, I want to feel better. I want to optimize my health. They don't know what to do. Like, if you have symptoms, great. If you have a disease, they'll give you a drug.

No one's really asked the question in medicine before, what is the definition of health? It's not the absence of disease. It's something else. And if you go to your doctor, you feel good, say, I want to feel better. I want to optimize my health. They don't know what to do. Like, if you have symptoms, great. If you have a disease, they'll give you a drug.

I got chronic fatigue syndrome from heavy metals. And I was struggling a lot. And I had to figure it out. I had to actually... figure it out. And that forced me to learn about what I learned about. It forced me to study the way I studied to actually find this field of functional medicine, to use it on myself, to heal and repair.

I got chronic fatigue syndrome from heavy metals. And I was struggling a lot. And I had to figure it out. I had to actually... figure it out. And that forced me to learn about what I learned about. It forced me to study the way I studied to actually find this field of functional medicine, to use it on myself, to heal and repair.

And so that's what I originally do is figure out that intersection of what you love. That's just driven me because it's not like a choice. I don't have a choice. It's not like I'm making widgets or something. It's fine to make widgets. We all need widgets. But I think the key is really to kind of figure out how you can

And so that's what I originally do is figure out that intersection of what you love. That's just driven me because it's not like a choice. I don't have a choice. It's not like I'm making widgets or something. It's fine to make widgets. We all need widgets. But I think the key is really to kind of figure out how you can

do this in a way that it syncs with what you love because otherwise you won't really do it.

do this in a way that it syncs with what you love because otherwise you won't really do it.

What your success is really determined by the quality of how you feel. So if you're able to function at a high level and do the things you want to do and not be held back by illness or struggles, you're going to be able to function at a much higher level and do whatever you want to do, whether it's just buzz off and go kind of

What your success is really determined by the quality of how you feel. So if you're able to function at a high level and do the things you want to do and not be held back by illness or struggles, you're going to be able to function at a much higher level and do whatever you want to do, whether it's just buzz off and go kind of

get early retirement, or whether it's you want to build a company, whatever you want to do, you have the capacity to be highly functional when you feel better. Investing in your health is such an important thing from my perspective.

get early retirement, or whether it's you want to build a company, whatever you want to do, you have the capacity to be highly functional when you feel better. Investing in your health is such an important thing from my perspective.

I see a lot of people who have great businesses and companies, and they build these things, they're rich, they have all this stuff, and they're lonely, they're isolated, they're unhealthy, they're sick, they don't feel good. That's the last thing you want.

I see a lot of people who have great businesses and companies, and they build these things, they're rich, they have all this stuff, and they're lonely, they're isolated, they're unhealthy, they're sick, they don't feel good. That's the last thing you want.

The secret to profiting in life, again, is to focus on the things you love and to do what you're passionate about. Because if you try to force something in your life, the best things that happen are often serendipitous. They often come to you, they're ideas, they're people, they're experiences. I feel like there's sort of an underlying current where we can kind of jump into it.

The secret to profiting in life, again, is to focus on the things you love and to do what you're passionate about. Because if you try to force something in your life, the best things that happen are often serendipitous. They often come to you, they're ideas, they're people, they're experiences. I feel like there's sort of an underlying current where we can kind of jump into it.

And if we're present, we're able to see actually what pulls us in. And when we do that, you become more profitable. I've never sought to make money in my life. I've never tried to make money. I've never said, I'm going to do a business to make money. I'm going to do this to make money.

And if we're present, we're able to see actually what pulls us in. And when we do that, you become more profitable. I've never sought to make money in my life. I've never tried to make money. I've never said, I'm going to do a business to make money. I'm going to do this to make money.

I'm doing what I'm doing because I feel like it's critical for myself and for the people who I care about and for the population at large. It's like, I just can't help myself. So I think when you do that and you have a mission and you're driven, then it's not about the money.

I'm doing what I'm doing because I feel like it's critical for myself and for the people who I care about and for the population at large. It's like, I just can't help myself. So I think when you do that and you have a mission and you're driven, then it's not about the money.

But do they understand the science of creating health? No. That's what I've spent my life studying after medical school, the science of creating health. And it's something we now know how to do. And that's what's so exciting. We know the basic biological systems that go right.

But do they understand the science of creating health? No. That's what I've spent my life studying after medical school, the science of creating health. And it's something we now know how to do. And that's what's so exciting. We know the basic biological systems that go right.

Well, you can go to drhyman.com. If you want to try the 10-Day Detox, you can go to drhyman.com. You'll find everybody's got a 10-Day Detox diet. I'm on social media, Dr. Mark Hyman, and I have a podcast, The Dr. Hyman Show, the top 200 podcasts out there. So it's doing well.

Well, you can go to drhyman.com. If you want to try the 10-Day Detox, you can go to drhyman.com. You'll find everybody's got a 10-Day Detox diet. I'm on social media, Dr. Mark Hyman, and I have a podcast, The Dr. Hyman Show, the top 200 podcasts out there. So it's doing well.

My pleasure.

My pleasure.

And in the field of longevity, the science is really getting exciting because we're talking about these concepts called the hallmarks of aging. The hallmarks of aging are these fundamental biological things that go wrong or break down as we get older that are underlying all disease. It's like the roots or the trunk. And all the branches and the leaves...

And in the field of longevity, the science is really getting exciting because we're talking about these concepts called the hallmarks of aging. The hallmarks of aging are these fundamental biological things that go wrong or break down as we get older that are underlying all disease. It's like the roots or the trunk. And all the branches and the leaves...

are all the diseases and all the specialties. So whether it's heart disease or cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer's or whatever it is, autism, depression, they share common roots. And there are only really a few things that impede health. You have to identify what those are. There are toxins, there's allergens, there's microbes that change your microbiomes.

are all the diseases and all the specialties. So whether it's heart disease or cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer's or whatever it is, autism, depression, they share common roots. And there are only really a few things that impede health. You have to identify what those are. There are toxins, there's allergens, there's microbes that change your microbiomes.

Stress can be physical or psychological stress. And poor diet, which most of us eat. And then there's a few things our bodies need to thrive. So you need to get rid of the bad stuff and put in the good stuff. And then there's ways of even accelerating optimization. Things, for example, like how do you optimize your mitochondria? How do you optimize your microbiome? How do you optimize...

Stress can be physical or psychological stress. And poor diet, which most of us eat. And then there's a few things our bodies need to thrive. So you need to get rid of the bad stuff and put in the good stuff. And then there's ways of even accelerating optimization. Things, for example, like how do you optimize your mitochondria? How do you optimize your microbiome? How do you optimize...

We have dysregulated sleep schedules. We have tremendous amounts of stress. We eat crappy food. We don't exercise enough. There's all these things that we're doing to impede our ability to actually live a vibrant, long, healthy life.

We have dysregulated sleep schedules. We have tremendous amounts of stress. We eat crappy food. We don't exercise enough. There's all these things that we're doing to impede our ability to actually live a vibrant, long, healthy life.

neurotransmitter function? How do you optimize your immune system? These are things that we now know how to do. If you say to your doctor, I want to optimize my mitochondria, figure out how to optimize my immune system. And they're not going to know what to do. How do I optimize my microbiome? I'll take a probiotic, eat fiber. They're not going to really understand because it's not what they do.

neurotransmitter function? How do you optimize your immune system? These are things that we now know how to do. If you say to your doctor, I want to optimize my mitochondria, figure out how to optimize my immune system. And they're not going to know what to do. How do I optimize my microbiome? I'll take a probiotic, eat fiber. They're not going to really understand because it's not what they do.

And I've spent the 40 years studying the science of the function of the body. And that's really what we have come to in terms of understanding how to create these shifts in our biology that create abundant and vibrant health and that don't provide a breeding ground for disease.

And I've spent the 40 years studying the science of the function of the body. And that's really what we have come to in terms of understanding how to create these shifts in our biology that create abundant and vibrant health and that don't provide a breeding ground for disease.

I'll give you an example. I'll just tell you a patient, actual patient I had. I'm not going to use her name, but she was a business coach about 50 years old. She was overweight. She had prediabetes. She had depression. She had migraines. She had reflux. She had irritable bowel, bloating.

I'll give you an example. I'll just tell you a patient, actual patient I had. I'm not going to use her name, but she was a business coach about 50 years old. She was overweight. She had prediabetes. She had depression. She had migraines. She had reflux. She had irritable bowel, bloating.

She had terrible psoriatic arthritis, which is a horrible condition where you get psoriasis all over your skin and body. And you also get arthritis, which is debilitating. So she was on a drug for that that cost $50,000. She was seen by the best docs at one of the best healthcare centers in the world.

She had terrible psoriatic arthritis, which is a horrible condition where you get psoriasis all over your skin and body. And you also get arthritis, which is debilitating. So she was on a drug for that that cost $50,000. She was seen by the best docs at one of the best healthcare centers in the world.

And she was getting the best GI treatment for reflux, the best treatment for irritable bowel, the best treatment for depression, quote, the best traditional view, the best treatment for migraines, the best treatment for her prediabetes, the best treatment for psoriatic arthritis. And she was seeing a doctor for every inch of her. And no one said, what is linking all these problems together?

And she was getting the best GI treatment for reflux, the best treatment for irritable bowel, the best treatment for depression, quote, the best traditional view, the best treatment for migraines, the best treatment for her prediabetes, the best treatment for psoriatic arthritis. And she was seeing a doctor for every inch of her. And no one said, what is linking all these problems together?

For her, it was inflammation. She had tremendous amounts of inflammation that were driving all these conditions. Now, we know that depression is inflammation, right? We know that if your gut's upset, it's inflammation. We know that obviously if you have inflamed skin and arthritis, that's inflammation. We know that diabetes is inflammation or prediabetes or obesity is inflammation.

For her, it was inflammation. She had tremendous amounts of inflammation that were driving all these conditions. Now, we know that depression is inflammation, right? We know that if your gut's upset, it's inflammation. We know that obviously if you have inflamed skin and arthritis, that's inflammation. We know that diabetes is inflammation or prediabetes or obesity is inflammation.

So I said to myself, well, what did the root cause for her? She was having so many gut issues. I believe those are the cause. She had severe bloating. She had all these history of taking antibiotics, the steroids for various things like for her autoimmune condition. I said, why don't we just do something really simple? Rather than taking all these drugs, you can continue to take them.

So I said to myself, well, what did the root cause for her? She was having so many gut issues. I believe those are the cause. She had severe bloating. She had all these history of taking antibiotics, the steroids for various things like for her autoimmune condition. I said, why don't we just do something really simple? Rather than taking all these drugs, you can continue to take them.

I had been eating.

I had been eating.

In the meantime, let's just try you on a whole foods, low sugar, low starch diet, which removes the common inflammatory triggers. For my practice, for people who have autoimmune disease, getting rid of grains and beans, dairy, gluten, which is part of the grains figure, processed food, alcohol, really makes a difference. So I said, put her on that diet. I said, let's kind of reset your gut.

In the meantime, let's just try you on a whole foods, low sugar, low starch diet, which removes the common inflammatory triggers. For my practice, for people who have autoimmune disease, getting rid of grains and beans, dairy, gluten, which is part of the grains figure, processed food, alcohol, really makes a difference. So I said, put her on that diet. I said, let's kind of reset your gut.

I gave her an antibiotic and an antifungal to reset her gut. And then I gave her probiotics and things to rebuild her gut. And I gave her, I think, vitamin D and some fish oil, not a lot of stuff. And six weeks later, she comes back. She says, Dr. Hyman, I got off all my drugs. I'm like, wait, I didn't tell you to do that. She said, no, I just was feeling so good. I stopped everything.

I gave her an antibiotic and an antifungal to reset her gut. And then I gave her probiotics and things to rebuild her gut. And I gave her, I think, vitamin D and some fish oil, not a lot of stuff. And six weeks later, she comes back. She says, Dr. Hyman, I got off all my drugs. I'm like, wait, I didn't tell you to do that. She said, no, I just was feeling so good. I stopped everything.

And she had no more steroid arthritis. Her skin care cleared up. She had no more migraines. She had no more depression. She lost 20 pounds. Her prediabetes was gone. Her reflux was gone. Her irritable bowel was gone. And so I just treated the root cause, not the symptoms. Inflammation is a common trigger for most chronic diseases.

And she had no more steroid arthritis. Her skin care cleared up. She had no more migraines. She had no more depression. She lost 20 pounds. Her prediabetes was gone. Her reflux was gone. Her irritable bowel was gone. And so I just treated the root cause, not the symptoms. Inflammation is a common trigger for most chronic diseases.

And for me, after seeing this for 30, 40 years of patients like this, I can see it when they walk in. I know what's going on. And it's not that hard to treat, but she was getting... all these symptom suppression treatments that weren't really working. They were marginally working. They were keeping her functioning sort of, but they didn't really deal with the problem.

And for me, after seeing this for 30, 40 years of patients like this, I can see it when they walk in. I know what's going on. And it's not that hard to treat, but she was getting... all these symptom suppression treatments that weren't really working. They were marginally working. They were keeping her functioning sort of, but they didn't really deal with the problem.

So functional medicine is about really understanding the body as a network, as a system, as a system of systems that you have to keep optimized in order to live well. And they map almost entirely perfectly across the hallmarks of aging that scientists have been discovering.

So functional medicine is about really understanding the body as a network, as a system, as a system of systems that you have to keep optimized in order to live well. And they map almost entirely perfectly across the hallmarks of aging that scientists have been discovering.

So when your mitochondria don't work, when your detox system doesn't work, when your immune imbalances or hormone imbalances or neurotransmitter imbalances or your gut's off, These are things that we know actually know how to treat. Your mitochondria aren't working. These are things we know how to treat with functional medicine.

So when your mitochondria don't work, when your detox system doesn't work, when your immune imbalances or hormone imbalances or neurotransmitter imbalances or your gut's off, These are things that we know actually know how to treat. Your mitochondria aren't working. These are things we know how to treat with functional medicine.

What we've done with Function is really create the first health platform that allows people to fully access their own data. Now, people are wearing Oura rings, they're wearing Apple watches, they're wearing glucose monitors. That's all great. That's just a few data points. But what if you could unlock all of your biology?

What we've done with Function is really create the first health platform that allows people to fully access their own data. Now, people are wearing Oura rings, they're wearing Apple watches, they're wearing glucose monitors. That's all great. That's just a few data points. But what if you could unlock all of your biology?

What if you could know all your biomarkers and your metabolome and your microbiome and your genome?

What if you could know all your biomarkers and your metabolome and your microbiome and your genome?

I would immediately have them get it.

I would immediately have them get it.

imaging, your wearables, and your medical history, and your EMR, your medical records, all gets into a platform that is personalized to you and allows you to identify where the imbalances are, where the dysfunctions are, and gives you deep insights and content based on machine learning AI to help you actually optimize your health for you. Because no two people are alike.

imaging, your wearables, and your medical history, and your EMR, your medical records, all gets into a platform that is personalized to you and allows you to identify where the imbalances are, where the dysfunctions are, and gives you deep insights and content based on machine learning AI to help you actually optimize your health for you. Because no two people are alike.

And everybody's different. And if we try to treat to the mean, we often miss the mark. And this is what medicine does. It treats to the mean. There's no average person, right? Everybody's different. And the studies work by something called randomized controlled no-blind trials, which means you basically have two populations that are as identical to each other as possible.

And everybody's different. And if we try to treat to the mean, we often miss the mark. And this is what medicine does. It treats to the mean. There's no average person, right? Everybody's different. And the studies work by something called randomized controlled no-blind trials, which means you basically have two populations that are as identical to each other as possible.

So you want to be a 70-kilogram white male from Kansas, and you get 100 of those people, and you put 50 in one group and 50 in another group, and you give them a drug, and you see what happens at the other side. That's how medicine operates. That 70-kilogram white male is not like 90% of us out there. Not you. It's not me.

So you want to be a 70-kilogram white male from Kansas, and you get 100 of those people, and you put 50 in one group and 50 in another group, and you give them a drug, and you see what happens at the other side. That's how medicine operates. That 70-kilogram white male is not like 90% of us out there. Not you. It's not me.

And so how do we move towards where medicine is going, which is personalization? We call it precision medicine, personalized medicine, whatever you want to call it. It's where we're going. And so Function Health is the first platform that is able to actually do this for you in an amazing way that helps people revolutionize their health. And we just started, honestly. This is a startup.

And so how do we move towards where medicine is going, which is personalization? We call it precision medicine, personalized medicine, whatever you want to call it. It's where we're going. And so Function Health is the first platform that is able to actually do this for you in an amazing way that helps people revolutionize their health. And we just started, honestly. This is a startup.

And we didn't realize how much success we were going to have. And so we have almost 150,000 members. We have millions, tens of millions of data points on people. We're seeing all kinds of trends in the data.

And we didn't realize how much success we were going to have. And so we have almost 150,000 members. We have millions, tens of millions of data points on people. We're seeing all kinds of trends in the data.

We see that people actually, when they get their first test, and now we've been going two years, we can see that when they follow up and do the follow-up testing, that their biomarkers get better. Their blood sugar gets better. Their cholesterol gets better. Their inflammation gets better. Their vitamin D gets better. Whatever is off.

We see that people actually, when they get their first test, and now we've been going two years, we can see that when they follow up and do the follow-up testing, that their biomarkers get better. Their blood sugar gets better. Their cholesterol gets better. Their inflammation gets better. Their vitamin D gets better. Whatever is off.

And we give them a deep dive into what's going on with their biology, not just from a traditional perspective, traditional sort of Western medical perspective, but also this emerging field of systems network and medicine, which is what functional medicine has been doing. But now the rest of the science is catching up, which is very, very exciting to me.

And we give them a deep dive into what's going on with their biology, not just from a traditional perspective, traditional sort of Western medical perspective, but also this emerging field of systems network and medicine, which is what functional medicine has been doing. But now the rest of the science is catching up, which is very, very exciting to me.

Sure. So the consciousness car is, you know, if you think about the two aspects of our minds, kind of the emotional side of the mind and then the more rational side of our mind, most of us operate under the assumption that the rational side of our mind is like,

the adult in the car who's driving and is in charge and the emotional side of our mind is like the obnoxious kid in the passenger seat who just like won't shut up and is like demanding ice cream all the time and a lot of what we understand as being like a disciplined mature human being is like teaching that kid and that the emotional side of our brain to just shut the f**k up

Sure. So the consciousness car is, you know, if you think about the two aspects of our minds, kind of the emotional side of the mind and then the more rational side of our mind, most of us operate under the assumption that the rational side of our mind is like, the adult in the car who's driving and is in charge.