Mike Purcell
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Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
So the Colombians, the Spanish, the Caracara, they all seem to have pretty valid claims to the San Jose. But guess who else also has a claim to the San Jose? A bunch of American businessmen. That's after the break.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And their claim goes back to the 1980s, when shipwreck treasure hunting was kind of having a moment in all of the bodies of water where wooden chests full of gold coins might be found. All these private companies were out there searching for treasure.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Now, their impression was under Colombian law at the time, that entitled them to 50% of whatever they found. They find it, they get to keep it, right?
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
But in 2020, Colombia passed another law saying actually everything on that ship is cultural patrimony. No one can sell it, which means Cesar's Armada would get 50 percent of nothing. So Cesar's Armada sued Colombia anew.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Last year, more than 40 years after they say they found the San Jose, they took their case to the Permanent Court of Arbitration.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
This court exists to resolve international disputes. It's the place the world goes when a government and a business interest disagree. In this case, CSERJ Armada is arguing that Colombia is in violation of the free trade agreement between Colombia and the United States.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Colombia's lawyers say what they have been saying to the Sea Search Armada. You never found it. There was nothing in your coordinates or anywhere close. By the way, Colombia's lawyers declined to comment for this story. There's this one exchange that I really love between first one of Colombia's lawyers and then one of the arbiters.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Colombia says Sea Search Armada is trying to claim a zone that is way too big, miles wide.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Seaser Armada's case before the tribunal court will reconvene at the end of this year. This whole thing is now going on year 44.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And if you're wondering why nobody has just gone and brought the San Jose up from the seafloor, it's partly for legal reasons the Sea Search Armada has an injunction, but also because in the years after it was found, there was a giant Colombian naval ship floating over the San Jose, guarding it. Maybe the simplest possible way to claim it.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
This episode of Planet Money was produced by Sam Yellow Horse Kessler with help from Willa Rubin and edited by Keith Romer. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Neil Rauch with help from Robert Rodriguez.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And before we go, we just want to say a big thank you if you are one of the listeners who answered the call in the last few months and supported our show by signing up for NPR+. That support is so important to keeping our work going, so thank you. And if you heard about NPR+, but aren't supporting us yet, it is really easy to sign up. Just go to plus.npr.org. I'm Mary Childs. I'm Erica Barris.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And they see, no joke, a bunch of gold coins.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
The San Jose was a Spanish galleon that sank in 1708 with billions of dollars worth of gold and silver and teacups aboard.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Just a teacup. Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Erika Barris. And I'm Mary Childs. So the San Jose shipwreck was found, but it is not clear who it actually belongs to. Turns out shipwrecks with billions of dollars worth of stuff on them can get pretty confusing and contentious.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Colombia, Spain, American financiers, South American indigenous groups, everyone wants a say in what should happen to the San Jose.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
He was the president of Colombia from 2010 to 2018, the one who shook Mike Purcell's hand after they found the San Jose in 2015.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
He could see the legal fights coming. But President Juan, he was pretty confident that Colombia would win those fights. Because for years, people had been beating down his door trying to work with the government to search Colombia's waters for the San Jose. Finally, one group got through, the group that Mike Purcell was working with. And they made a deal to work together and find it.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And then they could figure out what to do with whatever profits.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Okay. So you're already doing all these machinations in your head.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And finders keepers is a legitimate legal argument. It's called the law of fines. If someone finds a shipwreck or cargo, they have the rights to it.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Now, the law of finds mostly applies to ships found in international waters. This ship was in Colombia's territorial waters. And according to the UN's Convention on the Law of the Sea, countries have some jurisdiction over a certain area off their shores and over the removal of archaeological and historical objects found in there.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
President Juan is no longer the president, but he says the nation wants to salvage the San Jose and to build a museum. That's the plan.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
It weighed more than a thousand tons. It was built of wood that could withstand the salty seas and was reinforced with iron. It had three masts and 64 brass cannons, which were etched with dolphins. Ricardo says the San Jose was a state-of-the-art ship.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Ten years ago, Mike Purcell was on one of his missions on a ship in the Caribbean Sea off the coast of Colombia. And for about a week, every night, he had been sending out his autonomous underwater vehicle to search the seafloor.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
This time, a private group and the Colombian government wanted his help finding a 300-year-old shipwreck that was the stuff of legend. The Spanish galleon, the San Jose. It was one of the most famous shipwrecks and maybe the most valuable one of all time.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
including the English. England and Spain were at war over trade and colonies. And in June of 1708, the San Jose was going from what is now Panama to the coast of Cartagena before starting its journey to Spain. An English ship showed up to seize what was on board. They shot a cannonball into the San Jose, but that ball hit the ship's powder reserves.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
So, boom, the ship sank, along with nearly 600 men. Which makes this shipwreck site a Spanish war grave. This ship was never abandoned, Spain says. It's theirs. And that is why they also have a claim to the San Jose.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
So our expert Ricardo, who does not work for the Spanish government, says the San Jose does not belong to Colombia. It belongs to Spain.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
And Spain has successfully made this argument before. Ricardo says about 20 years ago, different Americans found a different Spanish boat sunk by the English. Apparently that happened a lot. They recovered more than 500,000 silver and gold coins. And a U.S. court said... The Spanish boat had sovereign immunity, so Spain ended up getting the coins.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
Ricardo says the same law should be applied to the San Jose.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
So that is Spain's claim to the San Jose. It is an historical claim.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
He says his interest in the San Jose began back in the 1990s. The movie Titanic had just come out. There were documentaries about it. And one of those documentaries made a reference to the San Jose. And he was like, wait, that's a ship that we, the Caracara, have a connection to.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
He says his community had documents dating back to the 1500s, including ones that showed what was on board the San Jose when it left Potosi. A whole lot of silver and gold that was mined by his ancestors.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
There are estimates that over 8 million indigenous and African people died there as they worked the mines during Spanish colonialism.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
He says the Caracara owned the silver and gold mined during the years of colonialism.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
If it's silver from Potosí, it has to come back.
Planet Money
The fight for a legendary shipwreck's treasure
This isn't just about the San Jose. In his research, he's found that there were all these other sunken ships with silver and gold that he says the Caracara have a right to.