Olivia Munn

I knew that my friends and people in my life saw me as somebody that would fight back. And I had no idea. I truly had no idea that I... could be manipulated and hurt that way, that I wouldn't just get out of something that was dangerous to my psyche.

Okay. Lucky bitch. Well, that one made up for all of it. It was a bad, bad period of my life. And what I actually realized that I really want to teach my children and any friends of mine is that, you know, when they say like, oh, just go on the date, like you never know, like you might like them, you know, you'll at least learn what you don't like.

I think for some people who are subconsciously vulnerable, which is what I think I was, because I had no idea I was this vulnerable, to... to anything that had happened to me post that first date is that, um, if you feel in your gut, something's not right, then don't do that first date or get out right away because one day could take years off of your life.

Not just the period that you're with the person, but if you're lucky enough to get out the years, healing yourself afterwards in that particular situation, um, I had a therapist who I really loved. And I know that she cared about me, or at least I thought she did. And I would constantly from the very beginning say, I don't know about this. I don't think this is the right. I want to get.

And then it got worse and worse. I'd be calling her crying and be like, I got to get out.

And I was like, help me get out. Like, help me. Wow. And this is shocking to people, but she encouraged me to stay. Wow. She thought that, you know, my quote-unquote picker was off. And she would look at it as like, this person on paper looked great. And when there was couples therapy, they knew how to present the right way. So... So then the stories I would tell seemed unbelievable.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm Libra rising.

The scales of justice. So that's really big for me. And that's why things like being called names that I definitely was not was... really difficult for me and almost just whatever that Libra rising justice for all and fairness is not okay. It just took a deeper root inside of me because I was experiencing something that was really unfair.

And, you know, going back to the question of like, how did that feistiness like hurt me as an adult? There's, there's one, there's one thing I realized through this podcast, big journey that I had and to try to heal myself. And what I realized was because of how I grew up and different things that had happened to me and I had a really tumultuous upbringing. And so set in Tokyo.

Yeah, I grew up in Tokyo because the military and and so things were really black and white for me. And I would make decisions without thinking them through enough. I just was like, this is wrong, this is right, and I would never really be able to see the gray.

There were other things that happened on this movie set personally to me that... was really not okay. And it was so traumatic that I had to file complaints with the studio. And there's a lot of other little things that go along with it, but it got to this place where

I was offered a lot of money, a lot of money, seven figures to accept, I guess, their apology and them taking acknowledgement of it. But it came along with an NDA. And not that I would ever have talked about it truly, but. because I just, I wanted to move past it all. And that's why I don't wanna talk about the things and the specific things that happened in that situation.

But I said, I'm not signing an NDA. And they said, you have to. And I just felt that it was so wrong. And at this time specifically, this was like in the beginning of the Me Too Time's Up. The 2.0, right?

So this was like the reckoning, the Harvey Weinstein reckoning that began it all, okay? This was that time period. And this is when people were targeting anyone who signed an NDA saying, oh, you only did it for the money. So I was afraid that my voice in speaking up would be... would just reverse any kind of validity to my voice. And I was concerned that they would leak it out.

So I love like either books or candles. Well, you know, when I walked into, I have not been, by that point, I had not been someone who was really into warning, trigger warning crystals. Yeah. Like people were like, um, and, and I, I approached it scientifically, um, not in a very, you like to use the word woo. Um, and I, I never, I wasn't into that until then really right around that time.

I was concerned that the studio in an effort to diminish my voice would leak out that I had signed an NDA for money. And I was in that meeting The lawyers said, you know, like, take some time to think about it. We'll step outside. And I turned to my lawyer and I said, I'm not taking it. And so I told my lawyer, I said, I'm just not going to do it. I want to say no now.

He's like, let's think about it. I said, I want to say no now. And that comes into the feistiness of not thinking things through and being so – upset and frustrated that this would be the offer to me. I did not think about negotiating. I did not think about anything besides how disrespectful that was. So when they came in, I said to my lawyer, and I want to say it.

And he was like, well, let it be. And I was like, I want to say it. And I remember looking at them in the eyes. And there was three people. One had fallen asleep. And And so I'm like, so clearly you take this very seriously. But the person who said to me, like, this is a lot of money. And they didn't say it in the kind way that, you know, I'm actually saying now. It was disrespectful.

It was like, hey, this is a lot of money. Right. You'd be crazy not to take this. Are you kidding me?

Just sign it. And I said to him, I know this is a lot of money to you, but it is not a lot of money to me to lose my voice. Mm-hmm. And we walked out of there. And I remember feeling so proud when I walked out. Yeah. So proud of myself. And shortly after that, California made NDAs illegal. And I was like, what? Oh, my gosh. And look, was it the right thing to do? And do...

The people in my life think that I did the right thing and are proud of me for that. Yes. But I wish that it's not that I wouldn't have ended up with the same decision. Right. It's that I made that decision based on anger. And that is something that I had to learn. how to rein in and use for my benefit.

But the only time I've realized that I've benefited from it is when I have taken the time to really think about things and digest it and talk it out.

The, the catalyst was getting out of a relationship that had drained me and left me just really just, it's hard. I don't know if there's a word to describe what that relationship was like. It was without a doubt, the hardest period of my life being in that. And, um, and that's where the other thing comes in.

So being feisty and learning that early on that it can like standing up to a group of people who are attacking you daily like these five girls were when I was 13. It taught me how to stand up and fight for myself. So that was great. But then when you look at my family life, I felt really trapped in this really tumultuous family dynamic.

And so I knew that my friends and people in my life saw me as somebody that would fight back. And I truly had no idea that I could be manipulated and hurt that way, that I wouldn't just get out of something that was dangerous to my psyche.

And, um, And when I went into your apartment in New York, there was crystals everywhere. And I was like, okay, we're going to get each other. That's why the Robert A. Johnson books resonated with me because he was a student of Carl Jung. He was a famous Swiss psychiatrist. So it was those things that kind of got me into understanding my –

I only had healthy relationships and then, well, that one, uh, made up for all of it. It was a bad, bad period of my life. And, um, What I actually realized that I really want to teach my children and any friends of mine is that, you know, when they say like, oh, just go on the date. Like, you never know. Like, you might like them. You know, you'll at least learn what you don't like.

I think for some people who are like subconsciously vulnerable, which is what I think I was because I had no idea I was like this vulnerable to anything. to anything that had happened to me post that first date is that, um, if you feel in your gut, something's not right, then don't do that first date or get out right away because one day could take years off of your life.

Not just the period that you're with the person, but if you're lucky enough to get out the years, healing yourself afterwards in that particular situation, um, I had a therapist who I really loved, and I know that she cared about me, or at least I thought she did. And I would constantly from the very beginning say, I don't know about this.

I don't think this is the right, I wanna get, and then it got worse and worse. I'd be calling her crying and be like, I gotta get out. And I was like, help me get out. Like help me, like, and this is shocking to people, but she encouraged me to stay. She thought that, you know, my quote-unquote picker was off. And she would look at it as like, but this person on paper looked great.

And when there was couples therapy, they knew how to present the right way. So then the stories I would tell seemed unbelievable.

Choices in life and my own psyche then once I kind of understood a little bit more about myself I wanted to expand and and into a lot of different things that I was trying to do to try to Heal myself for things. I had no idea or broken Crystals was really just a way to get into my own spirituality and

Well, I think from that experience, realizing that I got to go with my gut and I got to be decisive with some things, not to be too decisive if it's anger-based or unfairness-based. But if it's coming from a place where I want to survive and I realize that I'm not happy and that days and weeks and months go by of unhappiness and fear and

I found out after having done all the right things that we as women are told to do. If you have dense breasts, get an ultrasound. Get your mammogram done. Genetic testing is amazing and has helped save so many people's lives. I did genetic testing. I remember getting... the results from my doctor, she said, you're, you're clear on everything, BRCA and all the other, uh, cancer genes.

You're, you're clear. And my doctor, Dr. Thais Alibadi, she has been a, uh, a big advocate of the breast cancer lifetime risk assessment test, which is just an online test. Um, it's free and you just answer some questions like how old are you when you had your first period? How old are you? Um, When you had your first baby, have you ever been pregnant? Is there any cancer in your family?

So, yeah, when I walked into your apartment, I was like, okay, we're going to have a shorthand, which we always have. I know, which has been so nice. You know, when I came up to you, we talked about this later, but I had seen you. I know that you were doing a lot with bullying. And that made me so excited because I had this idea that never came to fruition. Right.

And anything above 20% is considered high risk. And I scored 37.3%. Wow. So she said, go get an MRI. So I went and got the MRI and I remember the radiologist saying to me, wait, why are you here? You're too young to get an MRI for your breast. And I said, well, you know, my doctor did the lifetime risk assessment test and he was surprised. He was like, I haven't heard that in a long time.

And I said, well, I scored this. And he said, okay. So I do the MRI and he calls me that same day and he said, we found something. You need to go get an ultrasound to get it checked. So when I get the ultrasound, the radiologist is taking some time. And finally I said, can you just tell me what you're seeing? And she said, well, I see the one from the MRI, but now I'm seeing two more.

And she said, what's concerning because of the shapes, because anything irregular is a concern. She said, the other thing that's concerning is when they look at the breast, they divide into quadrants. Imagine putting a cross right through it. And it's not atypical to have multiple tumors if it's cancer in one quadrant, but mine were now in two different quadrants.

So they got me in right away the next day for a biopsy. And then it was just three days later, I went in on Friday and I found out Tuesday. And My doctor made me come in and I had actually just, I had just gone to see her. So I was like, do I really? I was like, you know, over, I was over the hill, like in student city. She's in Beverly Hills. I was like, oh man.

I was like, yeah, I was like, I gotta go over Laurel Canyon and it's not the time to do this. And it was like 4pm. And how old is Malcolm at this point? He just turned one. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I go over and I go into her office and I said, is it cancer? It's the first thing out of my mouth. And she says it is. And then I'm off to the races and a million meetings with all the different

surgeons and oncologists and reconstructive surgeons to try to find my team and so you knew right away you'd have reconstructive surgery or just my doctor who i'm very close with she said you you should do a double mastectomy she said you're too young to have it in this many areas and she said uh If you have it this much in one breast, I guarantee it's in the left breast.

And when I was talking to different doctors, they said, no, no, that's like so rare. You're not going to have bilateral breast cancer. It's that's no, no, don't. And I said, well, is it rare to have it in multi-quadrants? And he said, they were like, no. Yeah, but no, that's even crazier to have it bilateral.

And when I saw my doctor, the surgeon, Dr. Armando Giuliano at Cedars, he would be my surgical oncologist. He said, let me get my top radiologist here at Cedars and have them look at your original MRI. And he called and he said, we do see something in your left breast. Let's go get a biopsy for that. So I did an MRI biopsy on it. That came back as cancer as well. Wow.

But I thought a lot about myself when I was younger and bullying. and getting bullied because I was in a military family. So we moved around a lot. So constantly like the new kid. And there were times where if you looked on paper, it would seem like,

And it was very evident at that point that I need to do a double mastectomy because I didn't know where another one would pop up. And also, if I only had one breast, it would create a lot of symmetry complications and be harder for me to... I don't know, to disguise it if I want to, because at that point I had no idea that I would speak up about this at all.

In fact, when I found out, I was like, I'm not telling anybody. Don't tell anybody. Nobody say anything. I said to John, don't say anything. It's not because I was embarrassed or ashamed. It was because I didn't want to get this influx of calls from people. asking me if I'm okay, or I just, I couldn't deal with other people's emotions.

by the accolades I might've gotten in school that, oh, life was easy, but there was enough bullying that it really changed how I think I approached adulthood as well and how I think back on those times. I had this idea that it was like, there's make a wish, right? For these kids who are going through such unimaginable health issues and they get to meet like their favorite

I was really naive about what a double mastectomy would be and what it would look like. I thought, I really thought that it was like getting an augmentation. And it really wasn't until so many people you know, would later find out about my breast cancer and friends who were trying to lighten it or probably make me feel good about it. They're like, well, you got new boobs.

And, um, you know, I did not have any rituals. I'm not that kind of person to do like rituals about things like, like that. I, I I've talked about this before, but I only cried twice during the the 10 months that I kept it private. I think I've cried many times since just because of the outpouring of love and support. But at that time, the time I cried was right before going into surgery.

Um, again, not thinking about what the breasts would look like, just worried about, um, my, my son, like, oh man, like what happens? What, what could, like, there's anything. And actually my surgery, um, went, um, for 10 hours and that's a lot longer than it was supposed to go for. And it's because I started bleeding a lot.

And so they had to stop the bleeding and, you know, uh, John and your family must've been so panicked. Yeah. My best friend, Corrine was there. Um, she stayed, it was her and John that were at the hospital. And when I woke up,

you know, John had pictures of Malcolm there and Malcolm had drawn scribble marks everywhere on these papers and he had all these, you know, all over, you know, the hospital room and just saying like, I'm so proud of you, mommy. And just things like that, that were just so sweet. And so the second big cry I had was the week after my double mastectomy and I was going in for my

my one week checkup and, and I had to get a dress and I was looking in the mirror and I, I, I had these things called expanders in. And some people do direct-to-implant double mastectomies. It means you do the double mastectomy and then they put the implants in right then. But Dr. Orringer smartly suggests to do expanders if you can.

It puts on another surgery, but it allows your body to heal so you can see what size you want. And I really wanted to go as small as possible because... a breast reconstruction with a double mastectomy, they're going to look more fake. And just because of the anatomy of all of it and what has to happen. So I'm looking in the mirror and expanders

In clothing, you can't really tell, but like looking at them, they were like, they're like more like squared off edges at points and they sat up really high. And I just, oh, I still remember that feeling. I still, I just was like, I was in shock. I didn't say anything. And he was looking, he's like, you're healing incredible. This is great.

And I just remember hearing the word incredible and thinking, oh my God, like what is better than incredible? So this is going to be, this is it. And it wasn't it. And that's not what he was saying, but that's what shocked me. And I didn't know how, I just, I just had, I had, that's when I had, that's when it all came crashing down. I'm like, oh, what I had gone through. And I didn't know

what i would look like afterwards and and at that point i hadn't decided to talk publicly about it so i was just thinking oh so many people are going to be saying i had a bad boob job and they're going to be tearing me down and they're gonna there's gonna be so many tick tock plastic surgeons being like this is what she's done and this is what this is how it was botched and i just i went home and i cried

A cry I have never cried in my life. And it wasn't a superficial thing. And it wasn't based on an identity I had. I just – I think I realized I had gone through something and now – it felt like I had gone through something and somebody put me back the wrong way. And I thought, oh, man. Honestly, a lot – the crying was mostly just shock.

It was – my mom was visiting at that time to be there when I had gone through my surgery and she comes in and tries to console me, but I just needed to cry by myself. And, uh, and then I remember she called John and was like, you have to call her. And then, so he calls me and what's, what's, what's going on. I was like, I cannot talk right now.

athletes or celebrities and singers and actors and... It's such a wonderful organization. And I was like, man, I would love something for kids who are being bullied because the mental health is just as important as physical health.

And I just, cause I, it was a personal journey that I had to go through in that moment. Sure. And yeah, so those are the, those are the two before and after. And then the rest of the time I was very focused. Um, yeah. almost like I didn't have time to cry.

And, and I couldn't think I, of course I worried that I wouldn't make it through certain things or that the, or maybe in five years of cancer comes back and mine's an aggressive cancer. And, um, and maybe some of it's still somewhere, you know? So I, of course that's the back of my head, but I didn't cry because I couldn't be afraid.

Like I said before, like about the emotional baggage, I did not have time to hold anything on my shoulders anymore. I had to fight the biggest battle of my life. So everything dropped to the ground and I had to be kind to myself and take care of myself. And then when I got to the other side of the journey, I like looked at all that baggage on the ground.

I thought, I don't wanna pick that up again. I've been able to, if I can beat cancer without this baggage, like I can take on any other little thing that comes up. Cause everything after that does feel Like a molehill.

Of course you did, because you're smarty pants. But the one thing I didn't research was what they would look like. He did show me some befores and afters, and I was shocked at them.

Because some of them looked really great. And then some of them did not. And he was trying to explain to me. What I liked about him is that he was very honest. I like the brutal truth. I don't want anything to be sugarcoated. I want people to tell me exactly what things are.

And, um, and I think that he, at the end, my end results, I think that he did the, the, he did a fantastic job with what he had to do, which is take out all of my breast tissue. And again, it does not look like an augmentation. My breast, um. You're going to show us. I'm just kidding. I'll show you later.

But they – it does not – because of my anatomy, my scars are not something that I can really cover up that much and they're more exposed.

And I thought, wouldn't that be great if there was an organization where there's a kid who's being bullied at school every day and feels like there's no friends and is sad every day. And then their favorite celebrity was Channing Tatum. Right. And then all of a sudden Channing Tatum shows up. Yeah. And he's like in the cafeteria. He's like, I'm going to be hanging out with you all day long.

For Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Skims and the Susan G. Komen Foundation wanted to do a campaign for Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

and the way it's run is fantastic. The group of women that run it, it is, I walked away saying this is why they got to four billion so quickly. Like a four billion dollar valuation for their company is,

incredible to do it in such a short time but the women really understand other women and there was such um they were very focused they were very uh uh creative and they had an exact point of view what they wanted but and at the same time they were very nurturing and respectful and you can tell it was it's run by a celebrity who's in the public eye because everything was garnered around

making me feel comfortable and a lot of times it's not it's always like well we have this we have an image and we need to get it done and we're gonna you know do whatever we can and and push you into things you're uncomfortable with and they pushed zero zero percent so we're we're

my makeup artist was there and, you know, she had touched up my mastectomy scars previously for, um, like the Academy Awards events that I had gone to, which was right before I had spoken about it, about my breast cancer. And so she was, um, on set touching them up and I just was like, it takes a long time and the lighting, it was just,

And then it just hit me that I was just – I was tired of being insecure about them because I was really insecure. There are some other spots that I'm insecure about. There are some like where they had to really dig out some tumors. It's just concaved in some spots. But the mastectomy scar is the big one. And I was like, you know what?

I was thinking about all the other women who have the same scars and – that I was probably insecure about them because it's something that so many women are insecure of and that had kind of gone into my subconscious and I just thought, this is going to be proof of how hard I fought. And I'm proud that I fought hard.

I fought really hard to be here and I fought hard for my baby and I came out the other side dropping a lot of emotional baggage and being kinder to myself. And this was just another moment that I said, I'm not going to carry any more emotional baggage if I have the strength to, because it is strength to let go of that emotional baggage, right? People...

think that like it's heavy on your shoulders. Why don't you get rid of it? Why don't you just drop it? But you said something earlier, but now this also reminds me of it is that, um, you know, when you're, Oh, when you're talking about getting into the same patterns, because it's something that you had grown up with or something that happened to you when you were younger.

And how that would just make an impact on a kid and their self-confidence. And so then, you know, you have like your big celebrity who comes in and you have like –

So you keep doing that because you're familiar with that pain. I had realized that I think of it like bad posture, right? When you have bad posture, when you have bad posture, you start to your back starts to curve over, your shoulders come in. And if you try to sit up, it actually feels uncomfortable and it's kind of painful because your muscles are needing to work.

So then if you ignore that pain and you try to move away from that pain, you go back into your hump back, right? And you need to sit up straight to strengthen those muscles. And it's really comfortable to be bent over because that's how you've been living. But if you keep doing that, eventually you will just bend completely over, you'll lose your posture.

So you have to do the things that are tough to strengthen yourself so that you are on the right path and standing straight. And that was just another moment when I was like, I'm not going to carry it. And I wanted to do that for other women who had this. And I wanted to send them so much love. And the response... Yeah, it was incredible.

And again, that was never on any of the creative boards that they had. And I actually, I thought of it and I said to them, I think I'd like to do this. And they went and talked and they came back and they said, you know, are you comfortable with this? And I said, yes, I'm ready to do it.

And they were really compassionate and was like, they were like, I want to make sure that this is really the path you want to go down. And they also said, and if you don't like it in the end, we'll kill those photos. And there was just such peace and the other women around really understanding what it's like for me, even if they didn't go through it, they understand what it's like to

have your breasts taken off of you and, and then have scars on your body. And, um, and it was just, it was just such a, a caring, loving environment. This one guy came, came up to me at the grocery store and he, and he had seen it and he said, you know, my mom has those scars and And I showed her the photo and it made her feel really good.

He goes, but he goes, it made me always sad to see those scars on my mom. And now I don't feel sad for her. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, it's sometimes it's the perception of other people looking at you and looking at that scar.

I mean, that is so true because I didn't truly realize that until this. And, you know, the reason is because I've gone through experiences in my life that I Like some of the stuff we were talking about earlier that I feel could reach out to other people going through it or help other people try to avoid that situation or recognize when it's happening. But so many things can be misconstrued.

Somebody takes – you know, we do this whole interview and everybody has – Good love going out. And then you've got other people taking one little thing that we said and running with that. And that's just part of being in the public eye, um, and something you have to deal with. But that's a big reason why I never, I was like, man, someone's going to take this and twist it around and.

I completely understand that. And it's something that nobody else would think about, but they would think about it if it did look like that. Right. And all of your good intentions would be focused on that. Yeah.

And I would sometimes tell a joke about something because it was too painful to talk about or I would like – and then it could be misconstrued as me being flippant or disrespectful, but you're like, no, there's like sometimes –

took a hold of the opportunities that were given to me. And in the beginning, that was an image that was more sexy. And that was my choice as well. But it never... It's not that I didn't feel sexy. I always felt like it was okay to embrace your sexuality. And now you look at it because people are so successful off of that. And there are people who started in that world and now...

own a four billion dollar company, you know, and so and are on the cover of Vogue and are really embraced by everyone. But at that time, when I started in the public eye, 2006, you could really be one or the other. You couldn't be artistic and respected and also be in a bikini and and play into any sexuality that you had. And It became a self-inflicted public identity, if that makes sense.

For people not knowing you and all of a sudden giving you a label. Yeah. And it's really interesting because labels... And how the world sees you, it's how you're treated, right? So even if you think that's not who I am, it becomes a huge part of your identity. And at least for me, being really feisty and fighting back became my identity because I was called –

I didn't have to accept the opportunities, but I did. I never ignored the part of me that could feel sexy. I just never felt that that's all I was. When I got onto The Daily Show with Jon Stewart back in the day, there was a little uproar about like, We want more women, but not that woman. And I remember going back to that time, right? If I'm thinking about that time, it was like 2010.

And that's kind of when I, I stopped, um, Not embracing my sexuality in that way. I don't think I have to think back. But I wanted to take the opportunity to take my career more seriously and to be more thoughtful about the things that I said. And I knew I was given this amazing opportunity. And I wanted to do my best with it. which is what I always was trying to do, you know?

Not Sloane Sabbath brilliant. I need Aaron Sorkin to write every single thing I say. Well, I think we'd probably all like that.

And credit to him.

Obviously, every actor brings their own thing to it. But... He had to write a character that was there. And the way that I chose to play it is what he saw. And thank God it was that way because that's the only way I wanted to do it. The pilot episode, which I'm not in. I show up in the second episode. But I was originally in the pilot episode. And...

The costume designer at the time put me in like really frumpy, like I think it was like a turtleneck and an oversized blazer and beige pantyhose and like a long skirt. And it was really like overwhelming. And the costume designer had said to me, We need people to take you seriously because you're the smartest person in the building. Sorkin writes that in there.

And so you can't be seen in a sexy way at all. And it was my first big show, so I didn't say anything. I said, okay. And I felt like I looked so inappropriately weird. like aged. And I was like, this is not okay. And, um, but I did it and it wasn't until we got picked up to series and the new costume designer said, do you like what you were wearing in the pilot? And I said, no.

And she said, well, let's start again. What do you want? And I said, you know, I think about men who are really well-dressed and they're wearing their, um, Hugo Boss suits that's tailored to perfection. And they look handsome. And no one's saying that we don't trust or believe that they're smart. I said, so I would like to wear...

fitted suits that are tailored to my body I'd like to look nice look sharp I don't want to wear any big flashy jewelry because for me to deliver the news I didn't want anything to be distracting to the information that my character was given that's what I thought my character would do I thought my character would not wear anything flashy but she would wear her tailored suits and

like, certain things when I got to that school. Specifically, I remember when I was 13. That's when the bullying happened. And I became really feisty and fought back a lot. Physically, fighting. Wow, really? Yeah, I grew up doing martial arts. Okay. So, and my mom... I do credit this to being a cultural thing, being Asian. But a lot of other kids are taught this too.

Because of how I had seen my life play out in the public eye, my number one goal with my character in that second episode, I wanted... My first thing we see, it's this big, long walk and talk that I have with Emily Mortimer, who I love. And I said, I want people to judge me as soon as they see me. Wow.

But then I want them... to realize they made a mistake as soon as I start talking because I had that amazing Sorkin dialogue and that I could deliver it. And I knew I could do it. I knew that this was a role I could do and I knew that I could take on his dialogue. And I had not a lot of acting skills. You did it brilliantly. Thank you.

Well, and you have that kind of writing. And, you know, for me, it really spoke to me because Sloane wanted justice and she wanted things to be right. And what was right was right. Right.

You know, he I didn't realize how I can kind of go from very serious to like making a joke right away. I just wasn't really thinking about that in the way that I would move through the world. And and. He really he picked up on that and he started putting those layers into like I'd be in the middle of something that was really upsetting and passionate as the character.

And then he would throw in some line that had to bring in some levity, but also had to, you know, my character had to deliver it seriously. He really works really hard to hear words. how the actors are performing his words, but at the same time, he's very locked in. He's like, this is, this is what I want to put out there. So you need to do it.

If you can capture his vision, then you don't get any notes, you know? And I, I. Wait, you had, you had a time where you never got notes? No, no, no. Okay. I didn't get, I was about to say this. Um, I wasn't, I'm not a trained actor. Like I didn't, I didn't go to Broadway. You went to journalism school, right?

No, I went to, yeah, I graduated with a BA in journalism.

Because I, you know, on The Daily Show, I played a fake reporter. And on The Newsroom, I played a real reporter. Yeah.

Yes. It's with Jon Hamm, Amanda Peet, and this other amazing cast of fantastic actors. You must have had a great time on set. I did. I loved it. I loved it. I've been a big fan of both Amanda and Jon's for years. a long, long time. I remember Amanda back when she was on this show called Jack and Jill. And she first came out. And this was like, do you remember that?

This was a time when we only had four, maybe five networks. So if you're an actor and you get onto one of those, it's a big deal because there's only so many shows. So I remember watching her and falling in love with her. And I'm like, oh, she's the best. And then we met. And of course, I talked to her about Jack and Jill a lot. And she's like, that is so long. No one's talking to me about that.

But her and I got along so great. And John, This is such a fantastic role for him. And I love working with him so much. He's an executive producer on the show as well. So I know that he had a hand in casting me. Yeah, I was the first person cast after... They announced him. And so I was a bit nervous because I was like, that's a big pressure. And the point, so just like timeline wise.

In 2021, I had my son, Malcolm. And then in 2023, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And then I started filming. In April, in the middle of April, and I had actually gone through my fifth surgery. Oh, my God. How many surgeries in total? Five. Wow. And that last one was an ophorectomy and a partial hysterectomy where I had my fallopian tubes and uterus taken out. Wow.

And then a lot of Asian kids are not taught this as well. But when I was really young, really young, I was like second grade. And this girl on our street that we used to play with all the time, she was a lot older than us. She picked me up and then threw me down on the ground. And so I ran inside crying to my mom. And she had been washing dishes and watching through the window.

And that was because the medicine that I would be having to take for five years was going to suppress my ovaries, and it was just – it was – Next level.

And so anyway, so then I have that. And then. But in January, we had already done the embryo transfer with our surrogate. So we knew that the baby was coming and healthy. So then by September, May enters the world. My little dragon, you're the dragon.

I did tell our creator of the show about it.

And I kind of was like, hey, this is what's going on with me. I feel really good. I knew I can do this, but I just wanted to be like heads up. And he was, his name's Jonathan Tropper and he's... That was my best experience on a set when it comes to like how easy and collaborative it is and how caring everybody was to my situation.

I will say I'm so surprised. Yeah. You, Monica Lewinsky, have no crystals in your studio.

So they could have a crystal.

This is cliche. But I think that sometimes things being so cliche, something being said in the world so long, it kind of doesn't really register. You don't really know how to take it in. It just feels like one of those things that people say. But to truly be present and with my anxiety that I had for so long, realizing that I was never enjoying the day. I was never being present in the day.

So every day, I was wasting it because I was worried about tomorrow, two months, one month, a year. And I was regretting things I did the day before and the week before and months and years before would still stay with me. Looking at my two babies, and it's difficult when you have two because my parents, Three-year-old has completely different needs than my four-month-old.

And I'm being torn in two different directions. When I was younger, I used to say to myself, what would the 80-year-old me say to the 27-year-old me? Or what would the 80-year-old say to the 19-year-old me? And like I would a lot of times – and it didn't mean that I took this advice. But I would be like – get out of this relationship. Don't be so hard on yourself.

And instead of comforting me, she looks at me and says, I don't put you in karate to just be thrown down. Get up and fight back. And I was like, well, now it's done. And she goes, go back out there and kick her. So I went back out. And kicked her because I actually was crying and I said, my mom told me to do this. And then I kicked her.

I would just be like, this doesn't matter. Your whole life is, is, is over, you know, not 80 or 90. Right. Sometimes people get to a hundred, but I was like, the majority is gone and you, and you, you should have just moved on because you know, it's, you're wasting time.

And so now every time I get frustrated, which is actually very seldom because of, of, because I, because I've gone through cancer and I'm, was so scared. I, I wouldn't make it through for, you know, all the reasons. Um, but so the frustration isn't something there, but being tired is something that I experienced a lot just from everything I've been through and the medicine I have to be on.

But whenever I feel tired or I'm like, Oh, he made this mess or, Oh my gosh, like he threw his food and like my new white couch is like decimated. I think about being 80 and if I was granted. a time machine to go 40 years back. And they said, we're going to give you 40 years as a gift. You can go back and do it again. That's what I think about every time. And I think I would not be on my phone.

I'd be sitting here looking at his little face, looking at her little face. I would say, make the mess. I don't care. I will not remember the mess when I'm 80. I will just want to be here. I want to live every single moment. Every time you throw a fit, I want to experience it. Every time you you want to put on the TV and watch Daniel Tiger. That's fine with me.

And every time you want to go, it makes me really realize how fast life will go and how lucky I would be if I got all this time back. So actually in this moment, I do often think And it comes into my mind really instantly. I think, oh, I've just been given 40 years. I've just been given 40 years to do it all over again. Oh, yeah. What am I going to do?

So sometimes when I can't help the insecure thoughts that come in or the worrying that comes in or will people take this the wrong way or will they go back and – and time and try to put me back into a box. Will I allow myself to be put into that box?

Whenever those thoughts come in, and they do come in obviously, because it's been how I viewed myself and thought about for so long, but I push them out right away. And if sitting here today, somebody said, hey, I'm gonna give you 20, 30 years to go do it again. We would know how fast it goes by. And when we were younger, when people would say, oh, you know, it goes by in a blink. It really does.

It does. It just does. Yeah.

I'll try and be present more. Well, I mean, especially for you, you know, you've been in the public eye for so long and had to endure so many things. And I'm so excited for you, for everything. But I met you when I was like, I was like blown away that you had started this relationship and career with Vanity Fair and you really reclaimed your voice because it is so...

But when I was 13, I was in the school and it was a group of five girls and they would just hound me. I was new to the school. I made one friend. Her name was Corrine, who's still my best friend. And we...

understandable if you said i just want to put my head down and never be seen again because it was just so unfair what happened to you and um and you really are taking advantage of every opportunity and being very present i mean obviously we we kind of we you and i we've talked many times about a spiral um but um

But the fact that you're getting up and you're going to work and you're doing these really exciting things is like that's the first step. If there are some parts of your life that you can't stay in the present for and that you're holding on to, at least like for you specifically, you are full steam ahead with this other big part of your life. I'm trying.

We had one class together, Karina and I, but the rest of the time I was really on my own and these girls would just find me and then push me out of the cafeteria and I would go find steps outside the school to sit on and eat my lunch. And they would just find me and they would really threaten to like, they'd be like, we're going to beat you up. And they'd call me all these names and 13 years old.

So, you know, the insults felt really damaging. Although if you look back as an adult, you'll be like, you know, move on. But at 13, it was colossal. Of course, you're just forming your identity. Yeah. And so it had gone on for a long time and I never knew how to take on five at time, even though I was really feisty. Like I said, it actually did, but you know, I'm one of five kids.

And so I always had siblings and older siblings to like, I mean, we would play fight and stuff like that at home and sometimes really fight. Um, but I just, it's very intimidating when you have five kids. coming up to you at once. Yeah. And especially when you're just 13 and have never really had like street fighting. Right.

And so I at that I remember after it going on for months, I just stood up and I said, OK, let's go. And they went, what do you mean? I go, I said, you throw the first punch. Yeah. And they're like, what do you mean? I go, if you throw the first punch, I don't get in trouble because that's what my mom had taught me. And then they were so surprised.

And I remember putting down my lunch and then like tying my shoes, making sure they were tight. And I just was like, let's go. And they backed off. Wow.

Well, that quality has helped me in life, but also really hurt me in life too. Okay. And what way do you think? I think that I have... I'm quick to be protective of myself, but have not thought about the repercussions of of how intense I would be or how much I would throw it back.

For example, when I first got in the public eye, I was on this network called G4, which is a video gaming network and also about pop culture. And I was on this live daily show. And, um, and then also this is before Twitter hadn't even started yet when I started on that.

And, um, there were forums and I just, uh, I would just... People would, of course, you know, bubblegum, they criticize every little thing about you and call you names. And I would just throw it back.

And the way that I learned how and I... And the way that my siblings would, like, kind of clap for each other and, like, egg each other on and be like, that's the way, you know, you throw it back to each other. And so I think that I definitely made a lot of missteps in that realm because I was... I think in the new space of sort of social media, it's...

And also at that time, and the tail end of that was a period where Howard Stern ruled supreme. And so-

outrageousness was the the key to success i mean that was how the more outrageous you could be and he got away with it and and even i remember watching his things and feeling very uncomfortable with you know how he was treating women especially and and the way that he talked about women the women who would come on and the the quote-unquote games that they would play um

It was nothing that I would – nothing close to anything I had even thought of doing. But there was this collective consciousness that accepted outrageous conversation and quips and –

Well, I would say, you know, in the politically.

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that that we have become desensitized as a society. But at the same time, there is this uprising of people on social media who. who are wanting justice for things and wanting to see the full picture. And I think that you have benefited from that as well.

And I've been, I'm so, it makes me feel so, as your friend, like so happy for you because people on social media, especially in like TikTok and this younger generation really understand what you went through. Whereas back then, oh, man, like it was so much judgment, especially from other adults who were like way older than you and a completely different generation.

So they a generation where they expected children to to be more mature really early on to understand. And there wasn't this understanding of how like our frontal lobe doesn't really develop until we're like in our mid to late 20s. And and the choices we make stay with us for so long. Really? Yeah.

I had no idea. That was for him to show up like that and then read our private texts. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And I just I had heard or read online about people going into stores and trying on clothes and getting monkey pox from the people who had tried it on previously. And it did work. scare me.

Yeah, because I had read again something about a mom and their baby walking across the street in a stroller and they were hit. And I thought, you know, you have to be alert at all times. Right. There's a reason for every text.

later in life. I was anxious, but I didn't understand that it was anxiousness. Yeah.

For me, it was called stubbornness. My mom would always say you're so stubborn, but that's because I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to do things or I Like being in big groups was difficult for me. Walking into a cafeteria was... I used to think it was just because... And it might be actually... It might be the genesis of it because I still have... Like I don't go to concerts. There's a lot of people.

It's just... It's a lot of system overload, you know? Like sensory overload. Everything is just like kind of going off for me. But the sound of... silverware on linoleum trays that we had when we were in elementary school is like, I feel it's like a nails on a chalkboard for me. Yeah.

So I didn't know about the, the anxiety then, but it definitely came up when I was, um, I came up when I was 28, 29. And, um, it was, it was, it had, it had started with being in the public eye with G4 and, um, and it, I think it was just compounding, you know, month after month, year after year and underlying, um, part of who I am is fairness and unfairness. And I think that... Me too.

This was when I got the call to be on The Daily Show. It was like, I mean, at that time, it was like Jon Stewart. Yeah. Is, was, will always be the king of comedy. But to get that call to come on. Oh, yeah. It was, I mean, I remember I was standing right over there. It was my first time. I was in the dark and I just was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

And just remember, I couldn't breathe. I was like, oh my God, I'm forgetting to breathe. So I was so nervous. Yes. It was just the best time of my life.

Did you get hired and then immediately put on the show? I got hired. And then we knew that they're like, we're going to have you on in two weeks. So there was like a two week of writing process behind the scenes.

2010.

You know what, they do have a lot of great snacks here.

Although, you guys wouldn't know because you're not inside the building like that, but you guys, Trevor did something to the inside of your offices and it's not good. You guys, it used to be like all open and everybody could like look over their desks and talk to each other. Now it's like you're inside of a train car, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was already like, my office back then was already really shitty.

They're even shittier.

I, yeah, I don't think I could keep up with it. And honestly, I just, um, I hear things, you know, I hear some things like today I heard something about the tariffs and I was like, oh yeah, there's tariffs. And I knew I was coming on. So I learned more because I was coming on here. Yeah.

But I, I kind of go, uh, through life kind of like, uh, like I have two babies, got a lot of other stuff happening. So it's really hard to, uh, to think about digesting all of the news that you have to.

She's great on there. It's a very fun show to be on. It's just very easy. Do they still give you copious amounts of Chardonnay? No, they didn't this time. They've let up. Yeah, I think that was, yeah.

Were you surprised by the response that you got from that? You know, I was actually very happy to hear so many people feel the same way. They think it's ridiculous. Yeah, we'll tell them what you said, yeah. Yeah, well, do you guys know what we're talking about? Good thing you don't. But they are going on this press... It's like... I can't... Who all's in it? There's a group of women.

Jeff Bezos' wife, Lauren Sanchez. Katy Perry. Gayle King. They're going to space. They're calling it this whole female exploration.

They were on the cover of Elle magazine as if they were making history. Yeah. And... Oh my gosh, the things that threw me was that they said they're going to put the ass in astronaut. Did they say that? They said it out loud. Who said that? I think Katy Perry said that. And they all talked about going in full glam. And I think it was Gayle King talking about my eyelash glue. I couldn't take it.

I just was so annoyed by that. Here's my biggest issue with that. this big press push feels like they think they are shattering some outer space glass ceiling. But I think it's just a girl's trip.

That... If this was all about feminism for them, they wouldn't be putting themselves on that rocket. There are so many female astronauts who have been training their whole lives to go into space and haven't gotten that call. Give them your seat. Let them have that seat. These are the least qualified people to be in space. And by the way, it's not even space. We could see them right now.

It's that easy. They're not going up very far. I think it's an 11-minute mission, right? You're calling it a mission?

What's the mission? What's their mission?

Well, I only had to get invested because they forced it onto us by telling us in the press all about it. And it was such a big press push. Oh, my God. I have more to say. I want to do an hour podcast on it.

That makes me so happy because that's pretty much all the content I have.

you know funny you ask because people would think john because like you know of his history um but he's the strict parent all right yeah yeah yeah and uh it does become like a little bit of an issue like i know john will say like the other day he was like malcolm no throwing balls in the house and then he leaves and i said malcolm do you want to throw the ball in the house You are bad.

Well, you know, I grew up in a family of five. John grew up in a family of four. So similar, but the difference is, like, we were, like, in martial arts as kids. We were, like, really physical. We fought. I do not think there was, like, you know, hand-to-hand combat in John's family growing up. It's a very different Irish Catholic kind of upbringing.

So I like things to be a little bit more rowdy and... The other day, Malcolm said, Mama, can we throw the beach ball up to the fan in the ceiling? And I said, yeah, should we turn it on first? And then we do that. The ball goes flying. It breaks a glass, obviously. And then John comes in. He's like, Olivia, what are you thinking? It's what he says to me a lot. And it's true.

And then he said, you know what I realized? The kind of parent that you are, he told me that I'm like Drop Dead Fred as a parent. Do you guys know Drop Dead? Oh, great movie. You guys too young? Some people are nodding, some people are old enough like that. Yes, thank you. Look up Drop Dead Fred. I mean, I was like, oh yeah, that's, yeah, I am Drop Dead Fred as a parent.

You're the imaginary best friend. I'm the imaginary best friend that's like, do whatever. Let's like make mud pies in the living room.

You should be proud of that.

You guys are doing so great. It's so fun to watch you guys. I remember when I came out, I see you guys on the banners outside. When I was here for two years, I never got a banner. You never got a banner? I asked John a few times ago, can I get the banner? We've got to get you a banner. Oh my gosh, give me a banner now.

And maybe next time I come, you can put one up for the day.

Yeah, postpartum anxiety. Anxiety. Yeah, so I had... I've been prepared for postpartum depression because we hear so much about it. But postpartum anxiety came on and it was, I don't know if anyone here has gone through that or their partners have, but it is one of the worst experiences of my life. It came on like a month or two after I had Malcolm and I woke up at 4 a.m.

My eyes just pop open and I start going... And I keep breathing like that all day long. And I keep waking up like that every day at 4 a.m. for a year.

For a full year. I just couldn't breathe. I just had so much anxiety. There was no actual thoughts. And thank God I didn't have any thoughts of self-harm or harming others. I have so much compassion and sympathy for mothers who are going through that. And I think that people don't understand it enough. And we're not compassionate enough about what it's like to be a mother and to...

birth a baby and everything that happens to your body and the hormones but it was incredibly difficult but i did make it through to the other side well

Well, there was a few reasons, but the biggest is that I was looking back on photos with myself and my son and there was this one video I had of me and him and I was laughing and we're playing and I had had a clear mammogram, like just around that same time. but I had cancer and I didn't know it. And the way that my cancer was found was because my doctor did the lifetime risk assessment test.

It's this free online test, takes a few minutes to take. And I link it in my Instagram bio just because there's a very specific one that does the best calculation. It's the Tyra Cusick test. And she took it and she said, your score is 37.3%. Anything above 20% is considered high risk. She sent me to get an MRI.

And after that, I was diagnosed with multifocal, multi-quadrant bilateral breast cancer, stage one, yeah.

Clear mammogram, clear ultrasound, clear genetic testing for any genetic cancer. So no BRCA or anything like that. I was doing everything I thought I had to do to take care of myself. This test has been around for a very long time. It's just not something people have heard about a lot. So that's why I wanted to talk about it. I said, if I could, I told John, if...

if every woman just knew that they could have their own score right there and take it to their doctor, it could just change their life and save their life. And that's why I made the decision to talk about it.

That's the thing that I was not expecting. Because when I was diagnosed, the first thing I said to John was like, don't tell anybody. We're not telling anybody. And it wasn't that I was embarrassed or ashamed. I couldn't deal with other people's worry. I didn't want to tell my mom. I didn't want to hear my sister worry and panic. I didn't want my mom to cry.

And then I realized very soon that he needs support as well. So I said, let's just tell whoever we need to tell. The sisterhood of women who have gone through this, it's so beautiful and so amazing.

And every time someone comes up and says something to me or wants to stop and talk to me about their own journey or their mother or sister or their wives, it's just... It sounds a little cheesy, but I do get healed a little bit more every single time. And...

And it's a strange thing to say it, but, and I can only say it because I've made it through to this side, but I would happily go through cancer all over again if it meant that I could reach out to this many people and save this many people's lives. A million percent, I would do it all over again.

Well, it was Apple TV, which I think that they do the coolest content, and then Jon Hamm, Jonathan Tropper. And it was... I love that we're meeting these people, Jon Hamm and myself, specifically at this time in their life where their lives are crumbling.

It's about the one percenters in the country and these people who are born into wealth and have everything that you think that you could ever want or need. And Jon Hamm's character loses everything and starts to... steal from his rich friends and neighbors to keep up his facade. And my character is the only one in the world that wasn't born into wealth.

She has a blue collar upbringing and she married into this. So we meet my character in the middle of a divorce on the precipice of losing everything. And I really, I find it fascinating to watch People who have so much lose it all.

Yeah, that's Jonathan Chopper's dialogue. He's a fantastic novelist and writer. And Jon Hamm is an executive producer on this, so he had his hand in everything as well.

I appreciate that. Your friends and neighbors. Olivia Munn. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

No, this was his strategy all along. Absolutely brilliant move. Brilliant not only economically, politically, it was good for the American worker. He's negotiator-in-chief, he's landing the plane, he's the master of the deal. I mean, you're watching the art of the deal in real time here.

Desi, Desi, hi. I can tell you. Hey. Oh, hi.

Oh, my God. Olivia Munn.

I'm a correspondent on The Daily Show.

You know how John comes in one day a week? Yeah, I have the same deal. It's just I come in once every 14 years. My dad's a cicada.

Desi, be cool, okay? Trump knows exactly what he's doing. He put tariffs that destroyed the global economy. So then he took them off and now it's only mostly destroyed. Now to avoid tariffs coming back, other countries will cut deals with us for better trade terms and our deficit drops to zero. Problem solved.

Then we hit them even harder. 400% tariffs. We bomb their factories. We catch those penguins on that island and we eat them. Then the other countries will really come begging. We can get whatever we want, baby. IKEA furniture comes assembled. Honda Accords, trunks full of Nike sneakers. We'll get to pee on their currency while they watch. Then we've won.

Yes, then it makes sense for the trade war to end. But psych, bitch, 4 billion percent tariffs. You're in our house now. The new iPhone, $3. Nike sneakers comes with a Honda Accord. Then we pee on their currency again. They're not even watching. It's just the only way we can pee anymore.

Desi, baby girl, it's not the trade deficit. This is all to make up for Donald Trump's enormous deficit of attention and love. He said as much last night.

See? He's just a boy. Standing in front of the world, asking to have his ass kissed. And once the world fills the aching hole in his heart, the tariffs will end.

Exactly, bitch.

Yeah, postpartum anxiety.

Yeah, so I had been prepared for postpartum depression because we hear so much about it. But postpartum anxiety came on, and it was... I don't know if anyone here has gone through that or their partners have, but it is... It is one of the worst experiences of my life. It came on like a month or two after I had Malcolm and I woke up at 4 a.m. My eyes just pop open and I start going,

And I keep breathing like that all day long. And I keep waking up like that every day at 4 a.m. for a year.

For a full year. I just couldn't breathe. I just had so much anxiety. There was no actual thoughts. And thank God I didn't have any thoughts of self-harm or harming others. I have so much compassion and sympathy for mothers who are going through that. And I think that people don't understand it enough. And we're not compassionate enough about what it's like to be a mother and to...

birth a baby and everything that happens to your body and the hormones, but it was incredibly difficult, but I did make it through to the other side.

For social media to keep people engaged, for news organizations to keep people watching, they have to ramp up the urgency and the existential nature of the crisis. So you're sort of torn between these two impulses. One is to not participate, which would be abdicating civic responsibility. But the other would be to bathe yourself in this existential crisis. What choice do you have?

See, that's so weird because my anxiety has never saved me from bears. But it often convinces me I'm not lovable. So how... How... I shared too much. How do you... How do you separate... I didn't want to watch the debates tonight, but I do work once a week now, so I have to. Because it's toxic to me. I know that. I have to participate.

But how does that anxiety of watching it, how is that a relic of something that's good for me?

Little thing called mushrooms, baby. Microdose away.

This is an iHeart Podcast.