Peter Charalambous
Appearances
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Yeah, that really did. I mean, at this point, Kid Cudi's gotten off the stand days ago, but his impact on the trial has really remained. And I think from the start with this entire line of inquiry about this arson investigation, this alleged firebombing, there was a bit of uncertainty about how much concrete evidence there was connecting Combs to this actual incident.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
I mean, even when you read the indictment in this case, they kind of left a question mark on that in terms of What is the arson here? What are the details here? It wasn't really particularly publicly reported at the time of the actual incident that Combs had any kind of connection to it.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And in this piece of evidence, the jury's really seeing the only piece of concrete material that ties Combs to this incident. And of course, the jury has seen a ton of photos of the aftermath of this. They saw the charred roof, the charred seats. During testimony on Wednesday, they saw photos where you could see the Molotov cocktail that sitting in the driver's seat.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
You can see the handkerchief that was lit on fire. And through this kind of standard DMV report, the jury has seen this and we see it in front of us here. It's directly tying Combs to this incident.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Even if we don't necessarily know if Combs was there, we don't know how he was directly connected to it, but kind of gives some more credence to this suspicion from Kid Cudi that Combs was the one who was behind it.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Speaking of that arson investigation, one thing I'm really interested in your perspective as an attorney is we heard a bit from the Los Angeles Fire Department arson investigator Lance Jimenez, who kind of described whether or not it was unusual that the fingerprints were destroyed while the investigation was ongoing. The fence objected and asked the judge for a mistrial.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Interesting. Moving for a mistrial. Is that a particularly unusual thing to see during a trial?
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
I guess what stood out to me was kind of how we're beginning to see some of this evidence go full circle here, right? Because we heard about, for example, this one incident where basically Combs rushed into her room. He found her sleeping, was frustrated because she was supposed to be packing for a music festival, and basically became violent. It became bloody very quickly.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
She cut herself after Combs threw her on the bed on this bed frame. And the jury actually saw photos of this. There are multiple instances here where the prosecutors have not only elicited testimony about this alleged abuse, but have shown the jury photos of the damage. In this case, and here, I'll just pull it up on our end.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
It looks a little chaotic, but here, this is government exhibit B247A. This came in during Ventura's testimony. She described this same incident that we heard about on Wednesday. And the jury saw what is one of the more graphic pieces of evidence in this case. You can see kind of the gash on her eyebrow.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And the testimony on Wednesday talked about how bloody this was, how Combs got frustrated and freaked out, if anything, after he realized how bloody he had caused by throwing Ventura into this bed frame.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And for the jury, again, to a jury that might be skeptical of victim testimony in a sex trafficking case, stuff like this, where you not only have one victim testifying about this, but you also have another person corroborating that account, and you have evidence that documents what exactly is being talked about, that can go a long way for the prosecution.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Yeah, I think this is super fascinating because trials in the United States have been consistent for, at this point, centuries. But one area where things have changed pretty rapidly over the last 20 years is how technology has made its way into the courtroom. I used to be a paralegal before I was a journalist, and I dealt with this firsthand.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
I was doing much more boring trials about white-collar criminals, But that same technology applied. I think I even worked on a trial that is in the same courtroom where the Combs case is currently happening. It's a magnificent, it's this large room. You've been there plenty of times. Tall ceilings. It's got this sweeping view of Midtown kind of rising up from Chinatown.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And it's speckled with technology. There are kind of computer screens in front of every chair for the defense table and the prosecution table. The witness box has a screen. The jury each has a screen in front of them. The gallery also has at least one screen to see what's being presented to the jury.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Basically, as they're kind of hearing this evidence being described by the witnesses, the jury gets to see this immediately in front of them. They get to see it with their own eyes. And when it comes actually to the point of deliberations, they get to see this all over again.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
The jury will be sent into the deliberations room with a binder full of evidence or a laptop full of every single exhibit that's been admitted over the course of the trial.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Evidence is at the ready for them and a good prosecutor can really enhance their direct examination using this evidence at times to kind of give their witness more credibility, to preempt a line of attack that the defense may make to cast doubt on that testimony.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
It's one area, particularly with this case, where there is so much evidence, where there are tons of photos and text messages and emails, where the prosecution kind of has a leg up here because they can build off this testimony with all of this material.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Yeah, that's an interesting point, especially with a trial like this one where we're talking about testimony and witnesses who might be victims of an alleged crime. So in this case, there are certain pieces of evidence that only the jury is seeing that aren't being publicly released, aren't being shown to the jury.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
So they have those screens in front of each of the computers in front of the jury to make sure that they can see that without kind of risking unnecessary harm. For example, showing a photo of a victim who their image really serves no public interest basically in being released.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
There's a weird kind of technological dance that happens every time, a piece of evidence put in by the prosecution of the defense here, where basically the judge has to sign off before the jury can see anything. And the defense has an opportunity to object. So basically, the evidence is slowly spread out throughout the courtroom. First, it's only on the screens for the judge and for the attorneys.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Then the witness gets to see it so they can identify it. And then only when it's been entered into evidence can the jury actually see it. And at that point can usually the members of the gallery see it.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
So if there's a mess up there, if the jury sees a piece of evidence that they shouldn't be seeing, that didn't get entered into evidence, that could be really prejudicial, that could become the grounds for a mistrial. So it's kind of like a high stakes technology thing that happens every single time something's entered into evidence.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Yeah. There's a few categories here. And at this point, I think we're up to about more than 250 government exhibits, about 30 or 40 defense exhibits. And some of them are minor things like face cards for each of the witnesses so that when it comes time to do a closing statement, they can kind of build out a clever chart that shows their allegation of what is a criminal enterprise.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
But broadly speaking, I would say breaks down into a few categories. There are photos taken from the raids of Sean Combs' property. So we've already seen the photos taken from the raid of his Miami home and the raid of his hotel room when he was in New York to surrender. And during those raids, investigators found illegal drugs.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
They found substances that were allegedly used for freak offs like baby oil and Astroglide. Guns, drugs. Oh, yes. Yeah. Basically everything you could want to run a criminal enterprise, allegedly. They alleged that they, over the course of these raids, found thousands of bottles of baby oil. The jury saw upper and lower receivers for assault weapons, which had their serial numbers defaced.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
They saw a loaded handgun that was found in a suitcase in Combs, Miami home. I think we're also going to hear a bit more about this when we learn about the raid done on his Los Angeles home. We haven't seen that material and evidence yet. Certainly, there's been a lot of material about this Kid Cudi firebombing incident. They've seen plenty of photos showing this charred Porsche 911.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
One piece of testimony that the jury heard a ton about and was kind of buttressed by evidence was this whole entire line of testimony about this 2011 freak-off where Combs learns that Ventura was in a relationship with Kid Cudi. He allegedly lunges at Ventura with a wine opener.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And then we hear a ton about kind of the aftermath of that, the threats, the violence allegedly that Combs reacted with after he learned about this relationship. And it's part of testimony that was kind of backed up pretty heavily by evidence. The jury saw the email that Cassie sent on December 23rd, 2011, kind of documenting this blackmail threat.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
saying that, you know, the threats that have been made against me by Sean Puffy Combs are that he's going to release two explicit sex tapes of me. One on Christmas Day, maybe right before or after, and another one sometime soon after that. He's also said that he will be having someone hurt me and Scott Muscati physically. He made a point that it wouldn't be by his hands.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
He actually said he'd be out of the country when it happened. So they saw that and they also saw the photos that Regina Ventura took of Cassie documenting the bruising on her back that she sustained allegedly because of combs. So that's just another example of basically how testimony can really be supported, be backed up by evidence.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Yeah, there's certainly fewer defense exhibits than the prosecution, and that's because the burden's not on them here. But at times, they can be rather effective when it comes to these cross-examinations. Let's use one example of a piece of evidence that they used, and it relates to that 2016 incident at the Intercontinental Hotel.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
There was a lot of testimony from Ventura about basically how she felt pressured into this, how she didn't really want to participate in this because she had an upcoming movie premiere, and how it particularly became a problem for her when she was bruised from that vicious attack and basically had to put on enough makeup to make sure that she went to a red carpet premiere and...
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
had dozens of photos taken of her. But I'll just pull up this one text message exchange that the defense attorneys brought up and asked her about, where this is a text message exchange between her and Combs. This is taken on March 5th, 2016, same date as you can see on the timestamp of that video. And you can see Ventura basically expressing a pretty strong eagerness to engage in a freak off.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
Baby, I want to freak off so bad. I don't want to myself up. What am I to do? And then Combs responds, what do you want to do? And for a skeptical juror, a piece of evidence like this, where you're seeing Ventura seem eager, willing to participate in a freak off, can really cut against the prosecution's argument here that she was coerced into this.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And of course, we can't generalize the relationship here based off one particular example. This one piece of evidence doesn't cut against the prosecution argument that this is a years long relationship where she was coerced to participate in these freak offs time and time again.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
But again, when we're dealing with such an important encounter, again, this 2016 incident that was caught on video is so central to the prosecution case. A piece of evidence like this can go a long way for a jury. I guess as I was thinking about this conversation, I went back to look at the transcripts, the opening statement that this jury heard from the prosecution.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
It's interesting because when you look at how Prosecutor Emily Johnson phrased this case, She ended her opening statement with something that's kind of boilerplate for prosecutors, at least in the Southern District. You hear kind of this very similar ending to their opening statement where they warn the jury about what's coming next and the nature of how the evidence is going to come in.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And she says, quote, the evidence will come in piece by piece and it won't always come in in chronological order. But by the end of this trial, when you've seen and heard all of the evidence, you'll see how it all fits together. I guess the general idea here is for this jury, they're basically hearing all of this evidence in no particular order. It's not chronological.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
It's not categorized for them by criminal count. It's haphazard in a way. And, you know, if you're looking at the evidence like you are, an experienced attorney, you can see how the puzzle pieces all fit together. But for a jury, they've heard from dozens of witnesses. They've heard hours of testimony. They've seen hundreds of exhibits. It's overwhelming. It's hard to piece together.
20/20
Bad Rap: Evidence
And among all those pieces, you can find plenty of reasonable doubt if you're really looking for it. Of course, the prosecution and the defense will have their closing statements where they can try to assemble that puzzle for the jurors themselves. But I guess that's just one thing to think about as we're talking about how impactful a lot of this individual evidence can be.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Yeah, that really did. I mean, at this point, Kid Cudi's gotten off the stand days ago, but his impact on the trial has really remained. And I think from the start with this entire line of inquiry about this arson investigation, this alleged firebombing, there was a bit of uncertainty about how much concrete evidence there was connecting Combs to this actual incident.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
I mean, even when you read the indictment in this case, they kind of left a question mark on that in terms of What is the arson here? What are the details here? It wasn't really particularly publicly reported at the time of the actual incident that Combs had any kind of connection to it.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And in this piece of evidence, the jury's really seeing the only piece of concrete material that ties Combs to this incident. And of course, the jury has seen a ton of photos of the aftermath of this. They saw the charred roof, the charred seats. During testimony on Wednesday, they saw photos where you could see the Molotov cocktail sitting in the driver's seat.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
You can see the handkerchief that was lit on fire. And through this kind of standard DMV report, the jury has seen this and we see it in front of us here. It's directly tying Combs to this incident.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Even if we don't necessarily know if Combs was there, we don't know how he was directly connected to it, but kind of gives some more credence to this suspicion from Kid Cudi that Combs was the one who was behind it.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Speaking of that arson investigation, one thing I'm really interested in your perspective as an attorney is we heard a bit from the Los Angeles Fire Department arson investigator Lance Jimenez, who kind of described whether or not it was unusual that the fingerprints were destroyed while the investigation was ongoing. The fence objected and asked the judge for a mistrial.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Why was that a big deal and why ask for a mistrial there?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Interesting. Moving for a mistrial. Is that a particularly unusual thing to see during a trial?
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
I guess what stood out to me was kind of how we're beginning to see some of this evidence go full circle here, right? Because we heard about, for example, this one incident where basically Combs rushed into her room. He found her sleeping, was frustrated because she was supposed to be packing for a music festival and basically became violent. It became bloody very quickly.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
She cut herself after Combs threw her on the bed on this bed frame. And the jury actually saw photos of this. There are multiple instances here where the prosecutors have not only elicited testimony about this alleged abuse, but have shown the jury photos of the damage. In this case, and here I'll just pull it up on our end.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Here, it looks a little chaotic, but here, this is government exhibit B247A. This came in during Ventura's testimony. She described this same incident that we heard about on Wednesday, and the jury saw what is one of the more graphic pieces of evidence in this case. You can see kind of the gash on her eyebrow.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And the testimony on Wednesday talked about how bloody this was, how Combs got frustrated and freaked out, if anything, after he realized how bloody he had caused by throwing Ventura into this bed frame.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And for the jury, again, to a jury that might be skeptical of victim testimony in a sex trafficking case, stuff like this, where you not only have one victim testifying about this, but you also have another person corroborating that account, and you have evidence that documents what exactly is being talked about, that can go a long way for the prosecution.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Yeah, I think this is super fascinating, because trials in the United States have been consistent for, at this point, centuries. But one area where things have changed pretty rapidly over the last 20 years is how technology has made its way into the courtroom. I used to be a paralegal before I was a journalist, and I dealt with this firsthand.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
I was doing much more boring trials about white-collar criminals. But that same technology applied. I think I even worked on a trial that is in the same courtroom where the Combs case is currently happening. It's magnificent. It's this large room. You've been there plenty of times. tall ceilings, it's got this sweeping view of Midtown rising up from Chinatown, and it's speckled with technology.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
There are computer screens in front of every chair for the defense table and the prosecution table. The witness box has a screen. The jury each has a screen in front of them. The gallery also has at least one screen to see what's being presented to the jury. Basically, as they're kind of hearing this evidence being described by the witnesses, the jury gets to see this immediately in front of them.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
They get to see it with their own eyes. And when it comes actually to the point of deliberations, they get to see this all over again. The jury will be sent into the deliberations room with a binder full of evidence or a laptop full of every single exhibit that's been admitted over the course of the trial.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Evidence is at the ready for them and a good prosecutor can really enhance their direct examination using this evidence at times to kind of give their witness more credibility, to preempt a line of attack that the defense may make to cast doubt on that testimony.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
It's one area, particularly with this case, where there is so much evidence, where there are tons of photos and text messages and emails, where the prosecution kind of has a leg up here because they can build off this testimony with all of this material.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Yeah, that's an interesting point, especially with a trial like this one where we're talking about testimony and witnesses who might be victims of an alleged crime. So in this case, there are certain pieces of evidence that only the jury is seeing that aren't being publicly released, aren't being shown to the jury.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
So they have those screens in front of each of the computers in front of the jury to make sure that they can see that without kind of risking unnecessary harm. For example, showing a photo of a victim who their image really serves no public interest basically in being released.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
There's a weird kind of technological dance that happens every time, a piece of evidence put in by the prosecution of the defense here, where basically the judge has to sign off before the jury can see anything. And the defense has an opportunity to object. So basically, the evidence is slowly spread out throughout the courtroom. First, it's only on the screens for the judge and for the attorneys.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Then the witness gets to see it so they can identify it. And then only when it's been entered into evidence can the jury actually see it. And at that point can usually the members of the gallery see it.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
So if there's a mess up there, if the jury sees a piece of evidence that they shouldn't be seeing, that didn't get entered into evidence, that could be really prejudicial, that could become the grounds for a mistrial. So it's kind of like a high stakes technology thing that happens every single time something's entered into evidence.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Yeah, there's a few categories here. And at this point, I think we're up to about more than 250 government exhibits, about 30 or 40 defense exhibits. And some of them are minor things like face cards for each of the witnesses so that when it comes time to do a closing statement, they can kind of build out a clever chart that shows their allegation of what is a criminal enterprise.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
But broadly speaking, I would say breaks down into a few categories. There are photos taken from the raids of Sean Combs' property. So we've already seen the photos taken from the raid of his Miami home and the raid of his hotel room when he was in New York to surrender. And during those raids, investigators found illegal drugs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
They found substances that were allegedly used for freak offs like baby oil and Astroglide. Guns, drugs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Basically everything you could want to run a criminal enterprise, allegedly. They alleged that they, over the course of these raids, found thousands of bottles of baby oil. The jury saw upper and lower receivers for assault weapons, which had their serial numbers defaced. They saw a loaded handgun that was found in a suitcase in Combs Miami home.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
I think we're also going to hear a bit more about this when we learn about the raid done on his Los Angeles home. We haven't seen that material and evidence yet. Certainly, there's been a lot of material about this Kid Cudi firebombing incident. They've seen plenty of photos showing this charred Porsche 911.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
One piece of testimony that the jury heard a ton about and was kind of buttressed by evidence was This whole entire line of testimony about this 2011 freak off where Combs learns that Ventura was in a relationship with Kid Cudi. He allegedly lunges at Ventura with a wine opener.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And then we hear a ton about kind of the aftermath of that, the threats, the violence allegedly that Combs reacted with after he learned about this relationship. And it's part of testimony that was kind of backed up pretty heavily by evidence.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
The jury saw the email that Cassie sent on December 23rd, 2011, kind of documenting this blackmail threat, saying that, you know, the threats that have been made against me by Sean Puffy Combs are that he's going to release two explicit sex tapes of me. One on Christmas Day, maybe right before or after, and another one sometime soon after that.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
He's also said that he will be having someone hurt me and Scott Muscati physically. He made a point that it wouldn't be by his hands. He actually said he'd be out of the country when it happened. So they saw that. And they also saw the photos that Regina Ventura took of Cassie documenting the bruising on her back that she sustained allegedly because of combs.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
So that's just another example of basically how testimony can really be supported, be backed up by evidence.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Yeah, there's certainly fewer defense exhibits than the prosecution, and that's because the burden's not on them here. But at times, they can be rather effective when it comes to these cross-examinations. Let's use one example of a piece of evidence that they used, and it relates to that 2016 incident at the Intercontinental Hotel.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
There was a lot of testimony from Ventura about basically how she felt pressured into this, how she didn't really want to participate in this because she had an upcoming movie premiere, and how it particularly became a problem for her when she was bruised from that vicious attack and basically had to put on enough makeup to make sure that she went to a red carpet premiere.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
had dozens of photos taken of her. But I'll just pull up this one text message exchange that the defense attorneys brought up and asked her about, where this is a text message exchange between her and Combs. This is taken on March 5th, 2016, same date as you can see on the timestamp of that video. And you can see Ventura basically expressing a pretty strong eagerness to engage in a freak off.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
Baby, I want to freak off so bad. I don't want to myself up. What am I to do? And then Combs responds, what do you want to do? And for a skeptical juror, a piece of evidence like this, where you're seeing Ventura seem eager, willing to participate in a freak off, can really cut against the prosecution's argument here that she was coerced into this.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And of course, we can't generalize the relationship here based off one particular example. This one piece of evidence doesn't cut against the prosecution argument that this is a years long relationship where she was coerced to participate in these freak offs time and time again.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
But again, when we're dealing with such an important encounter, again, this 2016 incident that was caught on video is so central to the prosecution case. A piece of evidence like this can go a long way for a jury. I guess as I was thinking about this conversation, I went back to look at the transcripts, the opening statement that this jury heard from the prosecution.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
It's interesting because when you look at how Prosecutor Emily Johnson phrased this case, She ended her opening statement with something that's kind of boilerplate for prosecutors, at least in the Southern District. You hear kind of this very similar ending to their opening statement where they warn the jury about what's coming next and the nature of how the evidence is going to come in.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And she says, quote, the evidence will come in piece by piece and it won't always come in in chronological order. But by the end of this trial, when you've seen and heard all of the evidence, you'll see how it all fits together. I guess the general idea here is for this jury, they're basically hearing all of this evidence in no particular order. It's not chronological.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
It's not categorized for them by criminal count. It's haphazard in a way. And if you're looking at the evidence like you are, an experienced attorney, you can see how the puzzle pieces all fit together. But for a jury, they've heard from dozens of witnesses. They've heard hours of testimony. They've seen hundreds of exhibits. It's overwhelming. It's hard to piece together.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
The Trial: Evidence
And among all those pieces, you can find plenty of reasonable doubt if you're really looking for it. Of course, the prosecution and the defense will have their closing statements where they can try to assemble that puzzle for the jurors themselves. But I guess that's just one thing to think about as we're talking about how impactful a lot of this individual evidence can be.