Peter Landers
Appearances
WSJ What’s News
China Vows to Fight U.S. Tariffs ‘To The End’
In Apple's case, whether it's made in China or made in India, there's no way to avoid a certain level of price increase if these tariffs stick. And I think businesses are investigating what they can do. However, with the tariffs set to go into effect tomorrow, it's probably too late to really boost production in the next 24 hours.
WSJ What’s News
China Vows to Fight U.S. Tariffs ‘To The End’
but they are considering how they can use their existing manufacturing footprint most effectively.
WSJ What’s News
China Vows to Fight U.S. Tariffs ‘To The End’
A lot of businesses are trying to figure out where is the location they can manufacture with the lowest tariffs to the US. Some countries had 50% or more like China, Vietnam at 46% was quite high. So they're looking for places like India or perhaps Mexico or the UK. However, what they're also telling us is that it's too soon to make long-term decisions.
WSJ What’s News
China Vows to Fight U.S. Tariffs ‘To The End’
If you already have factories in two places and one has a lower tariff, then you're going to try to use that one to export more to the U.S. But they don't know whether Trump will stick to his plan, and that's why it's too soon to make long-term decisions that might take years to implement.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Yeah, the first state we went live in was in Jersey. And actually, you could cross the bridge between New Jersey and Manhattan, and as soon as you were a meter past the halfway point, your phone would stop working on our app. So we had to have absolutely pinpoint precise precision to know exactly where you were, so that we were very careful to ring fence people from a geographical perspective.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Likewise, we do very, very careful and precise customer onboarding and verification to make sure that you are who you say you are and you therefore are old enough to be able to gamble with us depending on what the state's rules and regulations are. So we're not as a platform where you can just tick a button and say, I'm over 21, let me on.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We need to see all your verification details and documents before we'll let you onboard onto our platform.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We take this stuff incredibly seriously, Chris. So, you know, if there are examples where, you know, people think they can get through our systems, we will shut that stuff down. Now, there are a lot of illegal operators in the US. You know, people are spending a lot of money, you know, with unregulated sites. So, you know, I agree, you know,
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Around the world, no underage people should be allowed anywhere near our platforms or any of our regulated competitors. And actually, we should all be doing as much as we can from the regulators, the banks. The internet companies who allow the advertising, right? You know, they shouldn't be allowing these illegal sites to advertise. There's lots that can be done.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
The regulators are much more interventionalist in the UK in a number of different fields. And so in the gambling space, they have determined that they want to try and ensure that customers don't spend more money than they can afford. And that's quite interesting. So moral question, right, which is what is more than people can afford, right? So where do you draw the line on that for people?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
There's a tool that we have available in the States at the moment, spending tools to make sure that people are aware of how much money they're spending on our site. Because look, it is entertainment. They are spending money with us and we need to make sure it's clear to them how much we're spending. The other thing that we've developed in Australia actually is a real-time intervention tool.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So, you know, Chris, if I can see that traditionally you're spending, you know, a hundred bucks a week with us, but when the Superbowl comes around, you spend $400, we think, well, that's your normal pattern, right? And then if the following year, we suddenly see you spending $200 in one day and trying to spend $300 the next day, We'll intervene and we'll say, are you sure you want to do this?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Because this seems outside of what you would normally do with this, your normal pattern of behavior. So we're developing some real-time intervention tools to help ensure that we can just turn the mirror and point to our customer and just say, just have a think about whether you want to do what you're about to do.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
The whole field of safer gaming is really important to us. Research, education, internally in our business on it. And we spend a lot of time with our customers with these types of tools that I was describing, making sure that we push this really hard. So there are many customers who we block from our systems because we're not comfortable that they're gaming responsibly.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
It's then important that you actually have a tool available in the country so that if the customer wants to self-exclude, they can do it from all operators. So, you know, there's plenty of revenues that we don't take, right?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
There's customers that we switch off or we restrict the amount of money that they're spending with us to make sure that they stay at a level which they are comfortable with hindsight to ensure that they're engaging with us safely and responsibly. It's absolutely crucial. It's part of our societal license.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We're very focused on the super casual user. So we want people who are spending a small amount of money. They're putting their $10 on a parlay. Maybe they're spending $100 at the weekend. So this is not extraordinary amounts of money for people to be spending. It is in that sort of entertainment bucket. That's what we're focused on. We've got the biggest mass recreational customer base in America.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We're not trying to get the whales that you often hear people talking about. in our type of industry. Now, that isn't to say that there aren't consumers who get themselves into trouble. I think it is important that the industries pull together and have these tools so that customers can self-exclude so they can opt out of it. And then it's important that those things get extended as well.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I mean, there's nothing worse than if you've decided to opt out of gambling than if you're still surrounded by the advertising. So we need to make sure that, you know, on the digital platforms, allow people to opt out as well.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Look, if you look at our business in Italy, 100% of our customers there have a deposit limit in place. We've introduced that as a tool. So, you know, Chris, you could choose a deposit limit that suits you. Tim, you could have a different one, right, depending on how much money you want to spend. And, of course, these things require a cooling-off period to change them, right?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So, you know, that's a good example of a tool that we have now. Of course, people in the US can avail of that. We haven't insisted that everybody puts in place a deposit limit, but we are introducing in the US this real-time intervention tool.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So when you're in the process of making that deposit to make you sort of, you know, actually there'll be a threshold at which point we'll make you stop and actually reconfirm you do want to make the deposit. And there'll be a threshold at which point we actually will want one of our agents to speak to you on the telephone to make sure that you are actually definitely want to go ahead with it.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And there may also be levels at which when we speak to you, even if you tell us you want to do it, we'll say, do you know what? We think you've had enough.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
There's a lot of good practices that we have, which actually sometimes it's frustrating for us that some of the operating partners we have are not able to fulfill. That's next.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
You think about like the Super Bowl with all those different players and all the different stats available. We have to be constantly assessing what we think the probabilities are of events happening. And then we turn those probabilities into prices, have them available on our site.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We are regulated. I think unlike the social media businesses, we're very heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis in the U.S. and almost a country-by-country basis. And there are a lot of customs and practices we have to adhere to, to make sure that our customers are well protected in that operating environment.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And I think there are some therefore important distinctions between what we do and what some of the social media and other digital businesses are doing. We take our responsibilities very seriously. And I think there's a lot of good practices that we have, which actually sometimes it's frustrating for us that some of the operating partners we have are not able to fulfill.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
But nonetheless, we'll still make sure that we operate and provide a very safe form of entertainment to our customers.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Well, if you're in the UK, Chris, you can, right? So, you know, you can, there's all sorts of novelty bets, right? You know, you can bet on the outcome of the, you know, the elections, you can bet on the outcome of whatever the big, you know, celebrity-led, you know, program is on TV tonight. You know, there's all sorts of things that you can bet on these sort of
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
um so fun fun markets outside of outside of sports we're not there yet in in in the u.s um you know i i'm not the person to sort of sit here and opine on you know whether you know the stock market is gambling or not there are other people who will have views on you know on that but of course you know uh there has been gamification of that there's some well-known businesses who have democratized it i think is how people would describe it um you know
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
But what we focus on doing with our business is offering people great value entertainment. And if we were allowed to let our customers bet on the election or some of those other things, we found them to be, we call them novelty markets. We found them to be a bit of fun in other countries. And I'm sure American consumers would enjoy it as well if they could.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And at peak, you know, 70,000 bets a minute coming through the platform with, you know, you can imagine millions of customers looking and assessing prices in between that as well.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Thank you very much.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I've been absolutely delighted with the way that the team have built the business in the US with Fanjul. And if you look at the projections, we actually are talking about a $70 billion total addressable market in the medium term across the US and Canada.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Yes, I run a business called Flutter, which if you're English, you immediately know what that is because it means having a bet. And if you're American, you've got no idea what we're talking about. But we're the world's largest sports betting and gaming business. Flutter Entertainment, we're listed on the New York Stock Exchange. You're right, Chris, we own Fangio.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So it's an important part of our portfolio. It's about half of our revenues. The other half of our revenues come from our businesses outside of Fangio.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
When we acquired Fangio, we were anticipating that we'd be one of the market-leading businesses, and we'd be expecting that the market would be enormous. I've been absolutely delighted with the way that the team have built the business in the U.S. with Fangio.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And if you look at the projections, we actually are talking about a $70 billion total addressable market, or TAM, as people would say, in the medium term across the US and Canada. So we think the business will be bigger. That covers both sports betting and iGaming. Look, all of us who spend time in America cannot help but realize how passionate people are about sports. Everybody watches it.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Everyone knows a score. They all know what happened to the players. You had a good game, a bad game. A whole piece around fandom is so important. And we deliver a brilliant experience for customers. We own the parlay concept, this idea that people can pull together a series of events that are related in a game, and they can place a bet on it.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Or how does that work? I'm sure that will be available somewhere on our platform. about picking it's about picking that you know Patrick Mahomes will score a touchdown there's going to be a field kick from both teams in both halves that Saquon Barkley is also going to score a touchdown and that the Eagles are going to win by 10 points
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
You could combine all that together.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We've always been in the sports broadcasting business in America. So our first investment there, we bought a business called TVG. So some people wouldn't think about it as sports, but horse racing is very popular. And of course, we made the leap to streaming it as well. So we started with two horse racing channels and we built it out from there.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Now, of course, there's a huge amount of technology that we have to have behind the scenes to price all of these events and markets and selections. What do we mean by pricing it? Can you think about the Super Bowl with all those different players and all the different stats available? We have to be constantly assessing what we think the probabilities are of events happening.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And then we turn those probabilities into prices, have them available on our site. And at peak, you know, 70,000 bets a minute coming through the platform with, you know, you can imagine millions of customers looking and assessing prices in between that as well. So it's an incredibly technology rich environment, very complex operating environment. We take a huge amount of risk.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Customers place $100 bet with us, the most that they can lose is $100, but they could win $10,000 from me.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Well, obviously it's a much cooler job than working in a commodity pit because it's talking about sports, right? So we're paying these people to watch live sport, right? So, I mean, there isn't a better job on the planet than that for most people. So, but you're right, we have hundreds of traders around the world. So we used to have a follow the sum model.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So actually supporting the Superbowl, we had traders in Dublin, we had them in Melbourne, we had them in New Jersey, right? And yet they are running our models. They're looking at our bet stream of data. So we get more bets than anyone else. It gives us more insights.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
I could be watching Tim's bets come through and we'll be really confident taking all of his money apart from maybe when he's betting on Texas in the college game. And we know that he's really sharp on that. And when he does, we'll take his money and but we'll check the odds, right?
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
And we have that sort of ability real time to assess all the bet stream data that's coming through and help make sure that we're offering as accurate a set of odds to our customers as we can.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Yeah, absolutely right, Tim. We are a technology business. We're delivering a brilliant user experience to our customers. But if you think about the amount of things we sell on our platform, we've almost got a limitless assortment. So trying to work out how you merchandise all of those different products to customers and make them available is
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Because ultimately, you know, people want to watch the game, but they want to get their bet on quickly. And, you know, and that's not to get in the way. Right. But maybe they want to do a bit of research along the way.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So, yeah, we those those types of products where people can spend time looking at what other people are betting on or looking into the history of what's happened to the matchup between two players. That's an important component.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Actually, even simple things like making sure that if people have got a bet on, they could actually track the performance of their bets in the game without having to keep going onto their phone. So making sure that we're taking advantage of the latest features on the Apple iOS, for example. But that slider component, it's simple and elegant.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
So a customer can select the number of yards they want to pick for a player. You think about it, every yard you increase or decrease, we have to go back and we have to determine what we think the probability is of that event happening. And it's happening real time, right? You know, real time, whilst the game is happening, right? We're constantly assessing all of those probabilities.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
But we also spend a lot of time talking to our customers and finding out what they want. and thinking about how we can bring that to life for them. And the scale that we have, the data, the insights allows us to do that.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
In the end, this is about entertainment. This is not about making a living for them. You get much better value from the money you're spending with us than you do going to the cinema. Stay with us.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
quilly you're making money overall and they're losing it to you we we're in the entertainment business i mean the business is called flutter entertainment and yeah yeah i'll tell the story and i mean i you know i get in a cab right and the guy says to me what do i do and i you know i tell them i work for fan jewel and he's like oh my god you can't believe what happened at the weekend i had my parlay bet on and you know
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Six legs clicked and the seventh leg didn't. He said, I had $10 down. If only that player had gone five more yards, I would have won a hundred bucks. He said, I've been telling everyone about it, right? They'd had so much entertainment from it, right? And that's what it's about. Now, sometimes they win, sometimes they lose those parlay bets. But in the end, this is about entertainment.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
This is not about making a living for them. But you get much better value from the money you're spending with us than you do going to the cinema, where it's a sort of been and gone experience, right? You get to tell your friends about it. You can share it on social media. People love showing their wins. They love showing the ones that they almost won. So that's what we bring.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We bring excitement to life for people.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
Well, if you're asking me, of course it is.
WSJ What’s News
70,000 Bets a Minute: How FanDuel’s Parent Is Winning at Sports Gambling
We operate in a very, very strict regulatory environment. You know, when we first launched our business, the first because we operate on a state by state basis. So that's how it's a state's rights issue. So this is not a gift of the federal government. So the states can determine whether sports betting or iGaming is legal in their states.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Administration Backs Away From White-Collar Criminal Enforcement
Well, it's potentially a big problem. And as you pointed out, the timing is terrible. The office market was just reaching the point where it was finally recovering from a brutal downturn after the pandemic. But now, with all the uncertainty over both the economy and the capital markets, everyone is taking a pause. And that could be bad for this recovery.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Administration Backs Away From White-Collar Criminal Enforcement
Well, not really, because that 90-day pause only introduces 90 days more of uncertainty when a lot of tenants are going to simply move to the sidelines and not make decisions. And what the office market needs is for that leasing volume to continue. Well, where does that leave the market? It really depends.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Administration Backs Away From White-Collar Criminal Enforcement
If all of a sudden it looks like these trade war drums stop pounding, perhaps it gets back to where it was. If the trade war escalates, if it seems more and more like there could be a recession, it will hurt leasing. And then we're sort of back to this long term. dragged out downturn for the office market.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Administration Backs Away From White-Collar Criminal Enforcement
Also, we want to keep in mind that another big problem for the office market, not just the slow leasing, has been the high rate of defaults and the high rate of loans going bad. You have billions and billions of dollars worth of loans that are precarious and And creditors, banks, other lenders have been holding off on foreclosing. But they can only hold off for so long.
WSJ What’s News
Trump Administration Backs Away From White-Collar Criminal Enforcement
Now, if we now run into a period of higher interest rates and we have more defaults, the lenders aren't going to be able to hold off. And they're going to have to start foreclosing. And that's going to create more downward pressure on the entire market. That was Wall Street Journal reporter Peter Grant.
WSJ What’s News
Market Turmoil Deepens as Trump Stands By Tariffs
The two worst hit markets were Hong Kong and Taiwan. The Hang Seng Index in Hong Kong, which includes a lot of mainland Chinese stocks, was down more than 13%, and it had its worst day since the Asian financial crisis in 1997. Taiwan's stock market was down 9.7%, which is pretty close to the maximum because shares can't go down more than 10% in one day on that market.
WSJ What’s News
Market Turmoil Deepens as Trump Stands By Tariffs
I don't want anything to go down. But sometimes you have to take medicine to fix something.
WSJ What’s News
U.S. Could Pause Ukraine Talks If Progress Isn’t Made Soon
The Nikkei stock average closed up 1%, continuing a modest recovery. It's still down about 15% from its peak, has fallen since Trump's inauguration, but it is steadying and recovering a bit on these signs that the trade war may ease. Not many specifics are out there about what the sides are even talking about or what the U.S. is demanding, but
WSJ What’s News
U.S. Could Pause Ukraine Talks If Progress Isn’t Made Soon
Certainly, Trump is suggesting that at the end of his 90-day negotiating period, there will be some deals.
WSJ What’s News
U.S. Could Pause Ukraine Talks If Progress Isn’t Made Soon
So in Japan in March, inflation was about 3%, depending on which measure you use. And that's above the Bank of Japan's 2% target. And it suggests that the central bank in Japan
WSJ What’s News
U.S. Could Pause Ukraine Talks If Progress Isn’t Made Soon
does have room to raise rates later this year as it has suggested it plans to do but the tariffs are a bit of a wild card here because right now cars and car parts exports to the u.s are subject to a 25 percent tariff and that could lead to factory closures job losses in japan and that would be deflationary and that's why some analysts in japan think the bank of japan is going to be cautious about raising interest rates
WSJ What’s News
Europe’s Dawning Terror Threat? Young Online Radicals
This was a bigger rise in exports than was expected, but it does show that China has built this export juggernaut and some would say has a distorted economy that is more oriented towards exports and producers in China than getting consumers in China to spend on products that are made in their own country.
WSJ What’s News
Europe’s Dawning Terror Threat? Young Online Radicals
So, for example, China is making more cars than its domestic consumers are willing or able to buy. And they're looking for all those other markets that might be a receptacle for China's excess production.
WSJ What’s News
Europe’s Dawning Terror Threat? Young Online Radicals
It suggests there will be a shift in global trade flows where China continues to export a huge amount, but fewer of those exports go to the U.S. and more of them go to other countries around the world. Already, 85% of Chinese exports are not to the United States. And Europe, South America, Southeast Asia, Africa, you name it, there are many markets that China can still make deeper inroads into.