Phil Hall

The first dance we're going to do is a dance called Flowing Bowl from the Adderbury tradition, which is a stick dance. We've got a field town dance called Dearest Dickie on the schedule. If we've got eight dancers that can do it this evening, we might do Vandals of Hammerwich, which is a dance from the city of Litchfield. Or if we haven't, we'll do the Upton on Seven Stick dance.

The first dance we're going to do is a dance called Flowing Bowl from the Adderbury tradition, which is a stick dance. We've got a field town dance called Dearest Dickie on the schedule. If we've got eight dancers that can do it this evening, we might do Vandals of Hammerwich, which is a dance from the city of Litchfield. Or if we haven't, we'll do the Upton on Seven Stick dance.

There's quite a few that about six dancers will do. And of course, we've got our colleagues from Rampant Rooster who will also be doing something. I've no idea what they'll do.

There's quite a few that about six dancers will do. And of course, we've got our colleagues from Rampant Rooster who will also be doing something. I've no idea what they'll do.

Are there any kind of traditional Surrey dances or... Not that have been recorded. There were certainly dances in Surrey, but they've never been written down, so they've been lost.

Are there any kind of traditional Surrey dances or... Not that have been recorded. There were certainly dances in Surrey, but they've never been written down, so they've been lost.

Well the East Surrey Morris Men were formed in 1926. The Morris was in a bad state in the late 19th century and it was saved from extinction really by Cecil Sharp who was a folk music collector. and the English Folk Dance Society was involved in training new people to dance the Morris, having collected the dances from the Cotswold area in particular.

Well the East Surrey Morris Men were formed in 1926. The Morris was in a bad state in the late 19th century and it was saved from extinction really by Cecil Sharp who was a folk music collector. and the English Folk Dance Society was involved in training new people to dance the Morris, having collected the dances from the Cotswold area in particular.

East Surrey Morrismen were formed from the English Folk Dance Society's East Surrey district in 1926. to perform the Morris dances that have been collected. What are Morris dances? What do they signify? What are they for? What's their point? They're not really for anything. They're for enjoyment and they're an artistic expression.

East Surrey Morrismen were formed from the English Folk Dance Society's East Surrey district in 1926. to perform the Morris dances that have been collected. What are Morris dances? What do they signify? What are they for? What's their point? They're not really for anything. They're for enjoyment and they're an artistic expression.

So nothing to do with fertility dances for crops or for anything else? There's no strong evidence for that. I mean, there's some dances that are clearly related to that. So we do a dance called bean setting, for example, where you use the sticks to poke the ground and...

So nothing to do with fertility dances for crops or for anything else? There's no strong evidence for that. I mean, there's some dances that are clearly related to that. So we do a dance called bean setting, for example, where you use the sticks to poke the ground and...

pretending you're planting beans and there are other dances that have got an agricultural context but there isn't really any evidence that it's systematically for fertility It was used in the 19th century. It was mainly a rural tradition by then. And some of the men that were involved would have been collecting money from audiences, as we do today, to top up their income.

pretending you're planting beans and there are other dances that have got an agricultural context but there isn't really any evidence that it's systematically for fertility It was used in the 19th century. It was mainly a rural tradition by then. And some of the men that were involved would have been collecting money from audiences, as we do today, to top up their income.

It's not really that reason why we collect. We're more for pay for some of our costs. And we also make donations to charity from time to time as well. And how long have you been involved? I joined East Surrey in 1989 and my first dancing out season was the summer of 1990, so 34 years now.

It's not really that reason why we collect. We're more for pay for some of our costs. And we also make donations to charity from time to time as well. And how long have you been involved? I joined East Surrey in 1989 and my first dancing out season was the summer of 1990, so 34 years now.

It's a bit more complicated than that. No, no, no. And we pride ourselves on the quality and the standard of the dance. So most of the dancers are in sets, usually six, sometimes eight. And when you're dancing in a set, obviously one of the points of that is that you're trying to be as consistent as you can with the other people in the set.

It's a bit more complicated than that. No, no, no. And we pride ourselves on the quality and the standard of the dance. So most of the dancers are in sets, usually six, sometimes eight. And when you're dancing in a set, obviously one of the points of that is that you're trying to be as consistent as you can with the other people in the set.

You're moving relative to other people, but also you're trying to do the same thing. So if you're doing a particular movement, you're trying to synchronise it so you're all landing on the same foot at the same time, for example. And it takes a lot of training to do that. We do practice in the winter.

You're moving relative to other people, but also you're trying to do the same thing. So if you're doing a particular movement, you're trying to synchronise it so you're all landing on the same foot at the same time, for example. And it takes a lot of training to do that. We do practice in the winter.

Even though we've got quite a good big repertoire, we occasionally learn new dances still, even now. But these are new dances to you. They're not new new dances, I would guess. Most of them are new dances to us. Occasionally they're new dances that someone's made them up.

Even though we've got quite a good big repertoire, we occasionally learn new dances still, even now. But these are new dances to you. They're not new new dances, I would guess. Most of them are new dances to us. Occasionally they're new dances that someone's made them up.

Absolutely, yeah, definitely. Coordination. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And balance is very good. Yes, good for that.

Absolutely, yeah, definitely. Coordination. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And balance is very good. Yes, good for that.

Noisiness and flash. Energy rather than gracefulness.

Noisiness and flash. Energy rather than gracefulness.

07759 441 808.

07759 441 808.

07759441808.

07759441808.

I had a career with Kimberley Clark in numbers and finance, and then I had a really serious bike crash. Someone hit me from behind, knocked me over the handlebars. This was actually on Mid Street, where I live in Nutfield. Knew nothing about it, but he just sort of woke up almost, standing on my drive, bike beside me, covered in blood, and thought, oh, God.

I had a career with Kimberley Clark in numbers and finance, and then I had a really serious bike crash. Someone hit me from behind, knocked me over the handlebars. This was actually on Mid Street, where I live in Nutfield. Knew nothing about it, but he just sort of woke up almost, standing on my drive, bike beside me, covered in blood, and thought, oh, God.

And tipped her back into the house and my dear lady wife went, rushed me down to East Surrey Hospital. They took one look at me, took me straight through. Long story short, I was there for about 10 days and I smashed in a bit of the skull up here. And if it hadn't been for a bike helmet, I wouldn't be here today. So was that a bit of a life changing moment for you?

And tipped her back into the house and my dear lady wife went, rushed me down to East Surrey Hospital. They took one look at me, took me straight through. Long story short, I was there for about 10 days and I smashed in a bit of the skull up here. And if it hadn't been for a bike helmet, I wouldn't be here today. So was that a bit of a life changing moment for you?

Did you kind of reappraise what you were doing and where you wanted to go? It didn't feel so at the time, but it's turned out that way because the recovery was six, eight months or so. And my wonderful company said, thank you very much. We found someone else to do your job. And yeah, in fairness, they gave me a bag of money and pushed me out the door. I was really miffed about that at the time.

Did you kind of reappraise what you were doing and where you wanted to go? It didn't feel so at the time, but it's turned out that way because the recovery was six, eight months or so. And my wonderful company said, thank you very much. We found someone else to do your job. And yeah, in fairness, they gave me a bag of money and pushed me out the door. I was really miffed about that at the time.

But it did give me a chance to think, what am I going to do?

But it did give me a chance to think, what am I going to do?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Then that kind of brings it to sharp relief, doesn't it? Yeah. And so I thought, well, I've always fancied trying to write a book. How hard can it be? You're talking to someone who's written six books, and I can tell you, it is very difficult. Yeah, it is quite a slog, isn't it? My first one would show. So I started with a writing course over at East Grinstead.

Then that kind of brings it to sharp relief, doesn't it? Yeah. And so I thought, well, I've always fancied trying to write a book. How hard can it be? You're talking to someone who's written six books, and I can tell you, it is very difficult. Yeah, it is quite a slog, isn't it? My first one would show. So I started with a writing course over at East Grinstead.

John Pye, the guy who runs a bookshop, who's been very good to me, actually, because he stocks my books. They ran a little course above it, and I did...

John Pye, the guy who runs a bookshop, who's been very good to me, actually, because he stocks my books. They ran a little course above it, and I did...

six eight ten weeks or so of writing courses and they then said okay well start writing so i started writing a standalone story which was a bit of a psychological thriller set it in lingfield eventually it was like i'm going to publish it get it out there because you can just keep revising and revising and revising and rewriting and editing and subbing yeah Absolutely, it goes on forever.

six eight ten weeks or so of writing courses and they then said okay well start writing so i started writing a standalone story which was a bit of a psychological thriller set it in lingfield eventually it was like i'm going to publish it get it out there because you can just keep revising and revising and revising and rewriting and editing and subbing yeah Absolutely, it goes on forever.

If you want it to go on forever, then it does. You need to write crime or romance if you want to sell stuff these days, because they're the things that people buy. So I thought, I'll create the new Morse and Lewis. I've got these two really good friends. One is a glasses-half-full guy and, you know, take on the world and... He's always happy, relentlessly happy.

If you want it to go on forever, then it does. You need to write crime or romance if you want to sell stuff these days, because they're the things that people buy. So I thought, I'll create the new Morse and Lewis. I've got these two really good friends. One is a glasses-half-full guy and, you know, take on the world and... He's always happy, relentlessly happy.

And the other guy is really cautious. The glass is half empty. I'm not going to watch the match tonight because I know we'll lose. But the two together are really good opposites. And so I thought, I can take that basic character, obviously extend it and change it and develop it a little bit, and create two characters. They're my two leading detectives.

And the other guy is really cautious. The glass is half empty. I'm not going to watch the match tonight because I know we'll lose. But the two together are really good opposites. And so I thought, I can take that basic character, obviously extend it and change it and develop it a little bit, and create two characters. They're my two leading detectives.

And then because I live in and around Reigate, I thought, well, that's the place to write about. Do your friends know that they were used? Oh, they do. They do.

And then because I live in and around Reigate, I thought, well, that's the place to write about. Do your friends know that they were used? Oh, they do. They do.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean, the current one starts off with like a chase like you get at the start of a James Bond movie.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean, the current one starts off with like a chase like you get at the start of a James Bond movie.

I was walking it so you could pick up the sights and the sounds so you can describe it to people. Because you can't just say he ran down here and he ran down here and he ran down there. You've got to change it a little bit. But making it local means you can walk the area and feel it and sense it and then try and capture that idea when you put the story together.

I was walking it so you could pick up the sights and the sounds so you can describe it to people. Because you can't just say he ran down here and he ran down here and he ran down there. You've got to change it a little bit. But making it local means you can walk the area and feel it and sense it and then try and capture that idea when you put the story together.

absolutely yeah and one or two people have said to me the thing they like about the books is the fact that they can relate to the area and they can walk this piece and they can walk that bit is that a bit tricky though in case somebody says well actually you got that wrong because if it's based on fact it's based on fact

absolutely yeah and one or two people have said to me the thing they like about the books is the fact that they can relate to the area and they can walk this piece and they can walk that bit is that a bit tricky though in case somebody says well actually you got that wrong because if it's based on fact it's based on fact

I'm sure I have. Things change. So one of the stories has a murder, takes place outside the Barclays Bank, which, of course, most listeners will know, used to be in the Hind of the High Street, but it's no longer there. So it dates the book a little bit.

I'm sure I have. Things change. So one of the stories has a murder, takes place outside the Barclays Bank, which, of course, most listeners will know, used to be in the Hind of the High Street, but it's no longer there. So it dates the book a little bit.

Yeah, that can be a problem. But there is quite a lot of variety, so I state the books have been in the Surrey Hills, and I did that deliberately so that... It was Ryegate and Red Hill and all of the podcast area, but also some of the hills outside. So I've got quite a lot of variety to play with. Whilst I like to try and create and describe an area, I don't want anybody's house to have a problem.

Yeah, that can be a problem. But there is quite a lot of variety, so I state the books have been in the Surrey Hills, and I did that deliberately so that... It was Ryegate and Red Hill and all of the podcast area, but also some of the hills outside. So I've got quite a lot of variety to play with. Whilst I like to try and create and describe an area, I don't want anybody's house to have a problem.

So one of the stories features a fire and a house burns down. So you don't actually have a specific address for that? No, absolutely not. So that's based on an estate near Redhill, on the east side of Redhill. And I walked the estate so I could describe it and I got to know it very well. But when it came down to it, I picked a number that doesn't exist.

So one of the stories features a fire and a house burns down. So you don't actually have a specific address for that? No, absolutely not. So that's based on an estate near Redhill, on the east side of Redhill. And I walked the estate so I could describe it and I got to know it very well. But when it came down to it, I picked a number that doesn't exist.

Tell me why that is. The body that features in the start of the story is discovered in the Baron's Cave, which is actually just underneath the Castle Grounds where we are now. And I chose that because... It's an interesting location to use and all the people I spoke to, nobody really knew very much about the Baron's Cave. Hardly anybody had been to visit it.

Tell me why that is. The body that features in the start of the story is discovered in the Baron's Cave, which is actually just underneath the Castle Grounds where we are now. And I chose that because... It's an interesting location to use and all the people I spoke to, nobody really knew very much about the Baron's Cave. Hardly anybody had been to visit it.

So last summer I walked up here and bought my ticket and spoke to the wonderful people at the Wilden Cave Society who gave me a little tour, showed me a few secrets and some stories which I've tried to sort of feed into the book as we go along. So as the detectives are solving the case, they're also telling a little bit of the story about the history of the Baron's Cave.

So last summer I walked up here and bought my ticket and spoke to the wonderful people at the Wilden Cave Society who gave me a little tour, showed me a few secrets and some stories which I've tried to sort of feed into the book as we go along. So as the detectives are solving the case, they're also telling a little bit of the story about the history of the Baron's Cave.

So people would recognise all of these places.

So people would recognise all of these places.

It is, but not in this particular story, but that was in the very first story. That's the first one. I've got a series of three, and when I started writing about things I knew, I'd started playing tennis. So what better thing to do than kill off the coach? I've met the coach, yes, he's a nice guy. But you didn't call him Russell, did you? I did, actually.

It is, but not in this particular story, but that was in the very first story. That's the first one. I've got a series of three, and when I started writing about things I knew, I'd started playing tennis. So what better thing to do than kill off the coach? I've met the coach, yes, he's a nice guy. But you didn't call him Russell, did you? I did, actually.

I did, I did. Did he mind? No, he was very good about it. I let him read it, and he changed the surname, interestingly. But he was very happy about it, very good about it. I did write a nice chapter about him, which suggested he had a very good Wimbledon history, where he'd taken Roger Federer, who was his hero, taken a couple of sets off him before the rain...

I did, I did. Did he mind? No, he was very good about it. I let him read it, and he changed the surname, interestingly. But he was very happy about it, very good about it. I did write a nice chapter about him, which suggested he had a very good Wimbledon history, where he'd taken Roger Federer, who was his hero, taken a couple of sets off him before the rain...

came in in a Wimbledon of a few years ago so that was a bit of invention but yeah it went down really well with the tennis club and lots of tennis club people have like read the books and like them you see now I think your next novel number four should feature a young handsome podcast presenter

came in in a Wimbledon of a few years ago so that was a bit of invention but yeah it went down really well with the tennis club and lots of tennis club people have like read the books and like them you see now I think your next novel number four should feature a young handsome podcast presenter

Well, all of it, really. But it's interesting because you talk to people about murder stories and everybody wants to be in a story. Usually people want to be the murderer. I recently did a day with the vote in the polling stations, not for the general election, but for the local election, and I was thinking of setting one around that idea.

Well, all of it, really. But it's interesting because you talk to people about murder stories and everybody wants to be in a story. Usually people want to be the murderer. I recently did a day with the vote in the polling stations, not for the general election, but for the local election, and I was thinking of setting one around that idea.

And I spoke to all the people there, and almost without fail, everybody was going, oh, yeah, yeah, I could be the murderer, I could be the murderer. People seemed to have this fascination about it. But, of course, they all want to get away with it, whereas you've got to have a happy ending, really. I was thinking more like an Eddie Shoestring kind of character. Do you remember Shoestring?

And I spoke to all the people there, and almost without fail, everybody was going, oh, yeah, yeah, I could be the murderer, I could be the murderer. People seemed to have this fascination about it. But, of course, they all want to get away with it, whereas you've got to have a happy ending, really. I was thinking more like an Eddie Shoestring kind of character. Do you remember Shoestring?

I do, then, but she was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I do, then, but she was saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how far ahead are you thinking of your next stories? I tend to do one a year, and I've got this idea around a ballot box murder, which I'm partly a little bit nervous about because... there'd been a couple of politicians who were killed in service. So I wanted to make it before they were a member of parliament.

So how far ahead are you thinking of your next stories? I tend to do one a year, and I've got this idea around a ballot box murder, which I'm partly a little bit nervous about because... there'd been a couple of politicians who were killed in service. So I wanted to make it before they were a member of parliament.

And actually I thought of the idea a while ago, sort of like May time, hoping that the general election wouldn't be until like November, December, and then I could have it written. So it could come out like the next day. But of course it's happened already. Or the other idea I've got half an idea for is parkrun murder. Because I do a lot of parkruns and there is one in Reigate. And so the idea of,

And actually I thought of the idea a while ago, sort of like May time, hoping that the general election wouldn't be until like November, December, and then I could have it written. So it could come out like the next day. But of course it's happened already. Or the other idea I've got half an idea for is parkrun murder. Because I do a lot of parkruns and there is one in Reigate. And so the idea of,

a lot of rivalry in it because although it's meant to all be fun and games people who do it often will see that there's a certain undercount of people who want to be first so i'm thinking a lot of intricacy involved a lot of planning because you've got to have the red herrings you've got to have a

a lot of rivalry in it because although it's meant to all be fun and games people who do it often will see that there's a certain undercount of people who want to be first so i'm thinking a lot of intricacy involved a lot of planning because you've got to have the red herrings you've got to have a

Yep, you're not wrong there. I get an A3 piece of paper and I start with the murder in the middle and I do a little spider map of this leads to so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so and then this does so-and-so and this person does that. And then I will map out the chapters and I will write underneath it

Yep, you're not wrong there. I get an A3 piece of paper and I start with the murder in the middle and I do a little spider map of this leads to so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so and then this does so-and-so and this person does that. And then I will map out the chapters and I will write underneath it

plot, and then Scott and Ron, my two leading detectives, and dialogue, anything clever I want to say in that particular chapter. And then I'll start to make a few notes in it, so I know roughly what's going to happen in each of the first six or eight chapters before I even start.

plot, and then Scott and Ron, my two leading detectives, and dialogue, anything clever I want to say in that particular chapter. And then I'll start to make a few notes in it, so I know roughly what's going to happen in each of the first six or eight chapters before I even start.

Yes, more or less exactly how it works. I went to a writer's conference where this guy was talking about not knowing who was the murderer until the end and creating four or five plausible killers because he felt otherwise his writing would give it away if he knew the answer. I've never been able to do that.

Yes, more or less exactly how it works. I went to a writer's conference where this guy was talking about not knowing who was the murderer until the end and creating four or five plausible killers because he felt otherwise his writing would give it away if he knew the answer. I've never been able to do that.

I always know the answer more or less when I start that it's going to be X or it's going to be Y. Then I'm building the red herrings around it as I go along kind of thing.

I always know the answer more or less when I start that it's going to be X or it's going to be Y. Then I'm building the red herrings around it as I go along kind of thing.

I don't think any writer could get away without having a few of the proofreaders around. I've got a guy I actually went to school with when we were five. We started school together. A guy, Andy Lipson, now lives in Edinburgh. He was known as the walking encyclopedia at school. So we have a deal where he does my proofreading every year and I send him a bottle of whiskey. So it works really well.

I don't think any writer could get away without having a few of the proofreaders around. I've got a guy I actually went to school with when we were five. We started school together. A guy, Andy Lipson, now lives in Edinburgh. He was known as the walking encyclopedia at school. So we have a deal where he does my proofreading every year and I send him a bottle of whiskey. So it works really well.

Okay, Phil, finally, here comes the plug. The new book is The Cave of Death. You can get them on Amazon if you search Phil Hall, The Cave of Death, or go to my website, which is philhallauthor.com, and you'll find links to them all there.

Okay, Phil, finally, here comes the plug. The new book is The Cave of Death. You can get them on Amazon if you search Phil Hall, The Cave of Death, or go to my website, which is philhallauthor.com, and you'll find links to them all there.