Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones

And in that scene, it's made very clear, both by what Mardonius says and by what Artabanus, the uncle, says in response, that we are supposed to think that Mardonius is wrong. Like he's lying about how easy this would be. He's just telling, he's spinning fables that are going to be favorable to Xerxes. They're going to sound tempting to him. This is the archetype of the bad advisor.

And in that scene, it's made very clear, both by what Mardonius says and by what Artabanus, the uncle, says in response, that we are supposed to think that Mardonius is wrong. Like he's lying about how easy this would be. He's just telling, he's spinning fables that are going to be favorable to Xerxes. They're going to sound tempting to him. This is the archetype of the bad advisor.

And in that scene, it's made very clear, both by what Mardonius says and by what Artabanus, the uncle, says in response, that we are supposed to think that Mardonius is wrong. Like he's lying about how easy this would be. He's just telling, he's spinning fables that are going to be favorable to Xerxes. They're going to sound tempting to him. This is the archetype of the bad advisor.

He is basically trying to seduce him into bad decisions, presumably because of his own ambitions. In this story, he wants to become satrap of Greece. And so he says, okay, that's what we got to do. And this is all very literary. This is all very schematic, right? We don't need to take this seriously as historians.

He is basically trying to seduce him into bad decisions, presumably because of his own ambitions. In this story, he wants to become satrap of Greece. And so he says, okay, that's what we got to do. And this is all very literary. This is all very schematic, right? We don't need to take this seriously as historians.

He is basically trying to seduce him into bad decisions, presumably because of his own ambitions. In this story, he wants to become satrap of Greece. And so he says, okay, that's what we got to do. And this is all very literary. This is all very schematic, right? We don't need to take this seriously as historians.

But the arguments that are brought up are essentially just the idea that it is a Persian tradition to conquer. We have to go conquer something. As Lloyd has explained, Xerxes has this imperative to try and achieve military victories and conquests in order to legitimize himself. And the argument in Rhodes is it's going to be easy. The Greeks are an obvious and easy target.

But the arguments that are brought up are essentially just the idea that it is a Persian tradition to conquer. We have to go conquer something. As Lloyd has explained, Xerxes has this imperative to try and achieve military victories and conquests in order to legitimize himself. And the argument in Rhodes is it's going to be easy. The Greeks are an obvious and easy target.

But the arguments that are brought up are essentially just the idea that it is a Persian tradition to conquer. We have to go conquer something. As Lloyd has explained, Xerxes has this imperative to try and achieve military victories and conquests in order to legitimize himself. And the argument in Rhodes is it's going to be easy. The Greeks are an obvious and easy target.

You owe it to them, to the memory of your father, to avenge the kind of things that they have done, supporting the Ionian revolt, beating the Persians at Marathon. And it's a great opportunity to establish yourself as king. And so those are the kind of motivations that are being put to the fore.

You owe it to them, to the memory of your father, to avenge the kind of things that they have done, supporting the Ionian revolt, beating the Persians at Marathon. And it's a great opportunity to establish yourself as king. And so those are the kind of motivations that are being put to the fore.

You owe it to them, to the memory of your father, to avenge the kind of things that they have done, supporting the Ionian revolt, beating the Persians at Marathon. And it's a great opportunity to establish yourself as king. And so those are the kind of motivations that are being put to the fore.

Yeah, absolutely. And in that sense, I mean, one of the most fantastical elements of that scene is that he presents it as if the Persians have no choice, because if they don't attack, then the Athenians will attack them. Magnificent. It literally has a phrase like we should either do or suffer, like we should expect that the Athenians will crush us if we don't crush them first.

Yeah, absolutely. And in that sense, I mean, one of the most fantastical elements of that scene is that he presents it as if the Persians have no choice, because if they don't attack, then the Athenians will attack them. Magnificent. It literally has a phrase like we should either do or suffer, like we should expect that the Athenians will crush us if we don't crush them first.

Yeah, absolutely. And in that sense, I mean, one of the most fantastical elements of that scene is that he presents it as if the Persians have no choice, because if they don't attack, then the Athenians will attack them. Magnificent. It literally has a phrase like we should either do or suffer, like we should expect that the Athenians will crush us if we don't crush them first.

Yes, specifically what we have to bear in mind is this is being written in a time when the Persians had already been defeated, and in the aftermath the Athenians had developed their own empire, so they had seized control of the Aegean. So for Herodotus it's natural to assume that this was either always on the cards or that in some way prescience of this, premonitions about this,

Yes, specifically what we have to bear in mind is this is being written in a time when the Persians had already been defeated, and in the aftermath the Athenians had developed their own empire, so they had seized control of the Aegean. So for Herodotus it's natural to assume that this was either always on the cards or that in some way prescience of this, premonitions about this,

Yes, specifically what we have to bear in mind is this is being written in a time when the Persians had already been defeated, and in the aftermath the Athenians had developed their own empire, so they had seized control of the Aegean. So for Herodotus it's natural to assume that this was either always on the cards or that in some way prescience of this, premonitions about this,

informed decision-making at the time. This is a very standard way for Greeks to think about things. Teleologically, you already know what's going to happen, so let's plant that seed before it ever did.

informed decision-making at the time. This is a very standard way for Greeks to think about things. Teleologically, you already know what's going to happen, so let's plant that seed before it ever did.